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Old 30th June 2019, 05:23 AM   #1
Puppycow
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Journalist attacked by violent mob

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019...s-in-portland/

Quote:
On Saturday, Antifa had organized what it called “Community Self-Defense Against Proud-Boy Attack” and specifically called out “far-right Islamophobic journalist” Andy Ngo.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...16047901028352

Quote:
I am nervous about tomorrow’s Portland antifa rally. They’re promising “physical confrontation” & have singled me out to be assaulted. I went on Tucker Carlson last year to explain why I think they’re doing this: They’re seeking meaning through violence.
I'm kinda wondering if Antifa shouldn't be treated as a terrorist organization?
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Old 30th June 2019, 05:39 AM   #2
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I'm kinda wondering if you understand that there's no uppercase A in antifa, no membership card and no organization, per se, but a bunch of disparate groups variously referring to themselves as antifa.

Plus, like various White Nationalists, any group you decide to identify as "terrorist" is going to say, "Oh, we're not THAT antifa, we're the ones with the family picnics and the school breakfast programs.

You probably can't even attribute membership in the same antifa clique to everyone who was there on Saturday. The ***** who attacked him should be arrested and prosecuted.
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Old 30th June 2019, 06:00 AM   #3
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Hmm. Whether it's spelled with a capital letter or a lower-case letter seems like a weird point to focus on. Wikipedia spells it with a capital letter last time I checked.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
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Old 30th June 2019, 06:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Hmm. Whether it's spelled with a capital letter or a lower-case letter seems like a weird point to focus on. Wikipedia spells it with a capital letter last time I checked.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
Like the bullets at Balaklava!

The point is figuring out who is Antifa or antifa. If you're seriously proposing to name a group as terrorists, you have to be able to identify that group. People what act up in demonstrations are already subject to various laws. Can we name All Bigots as terrorists?

My point is not that they're right or wrong, but that with no formal organization, rules, by-laws, etc... WHO ARE YOU GOING TO "NAME" AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. It's a group heading an encompasses all sorts of splinter groups around the world.

There are laws against what just happened in Portland. Naming one side in a political fracas as Terrorists is absurd.
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Old 30th June 2019, 06:29 AM   #5
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Bunch of people dressed in black with their faces covered attack some right-wing noddy, who claims it was Antifa.

How do we know they were Antifa? Did they show their business cards? Announce themselves and show ID? Flash an Antifa badge? They look pretty hefty and older for Antifa teenager rapscallions, don't they. Much more like rent-a-thugs, to be honest.

So how do we know this wasn't all a setup?

We don't.

Get skeptical.
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Old 30th June 2019, 06:56 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019...s-in-portland/



https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...16047901028352



I'm kinda wondering if Antifa shouldn't be treated as a terrorist organization?
They should be classified as terrorists because they are terrorists. They claim to be anti-fascists but they act just like Nazis when they break store windows and loot and destroy property and assault people on the street that disagree with them.

The looting looks like Krystalnach
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Old 30th June 2019, 07:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
They should be classified as terrorists because they are terrorists. They claim to be anti-fascists but they act just like Nazis when they break store windows and loot and destroy property and assault people on the street that disagree with them.

The looting looks like Krystalnach
Terrorists don't break store windows and loot and assault people, they blow up buildings and hijack planes and kill people. Not all political violence is terrorism, you don't have to misapply the term "terrorism" in order to condemn bad behavior.
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Old 30th June 2019, 07:56 AM   #8
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Daily Mail says that in addition to being punched and kicked - he was "milkshaked".
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:04 AM   #9
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What losers. Making a martyr out of the person to whom they object. Nicely done, guys.

Now we get to hear the triumphant whinging of the dude's supporters, which will surely echo for months.

Also, Cain, it's Kristallnacht.

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Old 30th June 2019, 08:12 AM   #10
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I think we can pretty much conclude that this bunch would associate themselves with the name antifa being a loose collection of individuals who clearly and demonstrably believe in active, aggressive opposition to what they perceive as far right-wing players/supporters. I can't see why the reluctance to on here?
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:18 AM   #11
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I've always objected to antifa's aggressive tactics (even though I obviously agree with their general sentiments about fascists and violent nationalist pigs). I think they do more harm than good. I don't think violence solves anything, and I definitely don't think throwing milkshakes at people does anything. It's just crude, and it makes it very easy for rightwingin' jerks to come up with martyrs and whatabouts (all while not really solving anything).

That being said, I've had a milkshake thrown at me before, and it is really not a big deal. Like, cry me a river. But still, they're giving the "other side" ammo, and they're not accomplishing anything positive to offset that fact.

This is only my opinion, of course. It's also tinged by the fact that I know some people who now consider themselves antifa (they used to be "anarchists," and before that, "punks") and they are just awful people. I may agree with them politically on some VERY basic principles, but I still despise them and I think they are ultimately misguided.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Hmm. Whether it's spelled with a capital letter or a lower-case letter seems like a weird point to focus on. Wikipedia spells it with a capital letter last time I checked.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
The point of the "upper case letter", if I may speak for Foolmewunz, is not the capitalization. It's the question of whether there is actually an organization that goes by the name "Antifa" with or without capitals, punctuation, or any other idiosyncratic style of writing or logos.

Is there an actual group, with bank accounts, membership cards, meetings, etc. In order to designate something as a terrorist group, or to bring racketeering charges, or conspiracy charges, or anything else that you might do to a group, there has to be a group to do it to. There can't be "a bunch of folks who respond to calls on Twitter to assemble somewhere, possibly wearing black clothing because it's awesome."

If a group of people can be found who organized rallies and conspired to incite violence , then that group of people could be designated as a criminal organization. (I'm not sure if they meet the definition of "terrorist" organization, but that's really a secondary issue.)

What we can and should do, is identify specific individuals who are engaging in violence, and throw the book at them. They are truly awful people, engaging in behavior that every single American ought to condemn.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:28 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Daily Mail says that in addition to being punched and kicked - he was "milkshaked".
Milkshakes are harmless they said.
Quote:
Portland Police
@PortlandPolice
4:08 pm - 29 Jun 19
Police have received information that some of the milkshakes thrown today during the demonstration contained quick-drying cement. We are encouraging anyone hit with a substance today to report it to police.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:38 AM   #14
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Eric Clanton exemplifies Antifa to many, and the fact that no-one associated with them has had a bad word to say about him would seem to confirm that they support his actions, perhaps even hold him up as a middle-class hero. ****wads.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:38 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Milkshakes are harmless they said.
Okay, but that's "milkshakes filled with cement" which is a subcategory of "milkshakes."

Bananas are generally harmless, but if I fill one with razor blades and chuck it at somebody, that's a different story.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:42 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Milkshakes are harmless they said.
Don't worry it's been comprehensively argued on this very forum, by some very good people, that there is nothing violent about a milkshaking.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:47 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Don't worry it's been comprehensively argued on this very forum, by some very good people, that there is nothing violent about a milkshaking.
It's violent. It's also crude and disgusting, and not okay. And, if you really want to get technical, it's a waste of food. (Well, "food.")

It's unlikely to be lethal or injurious in most cases. Doesn't make it okay.

I stopped hanging out with a girl I know because she threw her drink in a guy's face who was being kind of crude in a bar. Just tell him off - there's no reason for that ****. She made a dramatic scene and got thrown out.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:47 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Don't worry it's been comprehensively argued on this very forum, by some very good people, that there is nothing violent about a milkshaking.
What's been established time and time again is that liberals are possessed of 'moral relativism'. It isn't new, or unique to liberals, it's afflicted the morally-deficient and weak-minded throughout history.
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Old 30th June 2019, 09:02 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Daily Mail says that in addition to being punched and kicked - he was "milkshaked".
They...squeezed his boobs and pushed them back and forth?
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Old 30th June 2019, 09:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Eric Clanton exemplifies Antifa to many, and the fact that no-one associated with them has had a bad word to say about him would seem to confirm that they support his actions, perhaps even hold him up as a middle-class hero. ****wads.
I misread the name as Clapton and was wondering what the hell he’s been up to.
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Old 30th June 2019, 10:12 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Like the bullets at Balaklava!

The point is figuring out who is Antifa or antifa. If you're seriously proposing to name a group as terrorists, you have to be able to identify that group. People what act up in demonstrations are already subject to various laws. Can we name All Bigots as terrorists?

My point is not that they're right or wrong, but that with no formal organization, rules, by-laws, etc... WHO ARE YOU GOING TO "NAME" AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. It's a group heading an encompasses all sorts of splinter groups around the world.

There are laws against what just happened in Portland. Naming one side in a political fracas as Terrorists is absurd.
Can we name all bigots as terrorists?

You and folks like you have been giving it your best effort.

Funny how when the shoe is on the other foot nuance is suddenly a thing. Almost like you view yourself as human. .. and the bigots as something else.
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Old 30th June 2019, 10:18 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Milkshakes are harmless they said.
I'd like to point out that I, many times have pointed out that is only going to be a matter of time before milkshakes and eggs become objects designed to look like milkshakes and eggs.

And also I was told consistently this was stupid, and there is zero danger in acts like this. One poster even saying getting angry at it would be an extreme over reaction and that most people would smile back.

You can smile at assault all you want, personally I'd treat it like the attack it is.
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Old 30th June 2019, 12:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
What's been established time and time again is that liberals are possessed of 'moral relativism'. It isn't new, or unique to liberals, it's afflicted the morally-deficient and weak-minded throughout history.
That'll be those that, upon hearing my opinion that egging/milkshaking is assault, tagged me as a useful idiot for organised alt-right parties and a supporter and enabler for N(n)azis.
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Old 30th June 2019, 12:26 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Hmm. Whether it's spelled with a capital letter or a lower-case letter seems like a weird point to focus on. Wikipedia spells it with a capital letter last time I checked.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
Along the lines of "missing the point" I'd add that you've overlooked that that articles spells it with lowercase "a" many of the times it uses the word. The vast majority if you discount the times where it capitalized merely for being the first word of the sentence. The reason for that has been explained.
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Old 30th June 2019, 01:19 PM   #25
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White supremacists are scum and antifa are scum.

They kind of cancel each other out in a way.
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Old 30th June 2019, 01:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Terrorists don't break store windows and loot and assault people, they blow up buildings and hijack planes and kill people. Not all political violence is terrorism, you don't have to misapply the term "terrorism" in order to condemn bad behavior.
Yes.
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Old 30th June 2019, 01:44 PM   #27
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Here is another article on what happened:
https://reason.com/2019/06/29/antifa...hake-violence/
I rarely agree with Noam Chomsky on anything, but he is right when he says antifa is a gift to the right
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7906406.html

Andy Ngo isn't a white supremacist, he isn't a nazi or a facist or alt right or some such, he is an asian conservative journalist
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Old 30th June 2019, 02:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I don't think violence solves anything,

Except for WWII, the American Civil War, numerous anti-imperialist uprisings, countless instances of self-defense, and so on. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor."

I'm not going to say that every instance of antifa activists' use of force is productive, or even justified; but when you're facing an enemy who does not even acknowledge your humanity, who would be perfectly happy to kill you or otherwise make it so that you simply do not exist in their world, well you do what you do to ensure that you and those like you continue to survive.

And it's a very privileged position to sit back, ignore history, and say "Well, violence never solves anything, and both sides are the same," when you're not the target of the fascists and bigots who are trying to eliminate your very existence, or at best turn you into a slave and treat you as less than an animal. Non-violence in the face of an enemy who does not acknowledge your humanity is not noble, it's suicidal.

The problem with antifa is that it's a myriad of very different people, from very different backgrouns, with differing worldviews, and no coherent philosophy or strategy aside from "resist those who are trying to destroy us with whatever means we have". That means that different groups will have different ideas on how to accomplish their goals, and the fact that many tend to over-react to such a threat is hardly unexpected, and more a result of having more passion than experience. Branding them as "terrorists" is at best a gross misunderstanding of both antifa's purpose and the purpose of terrorism.

While it's critical to be judicious in the use of violent force, it's still a very important and valuable tool against those who would use violent force to erase you entirely. What antifa activists need is a regular organization with a coherent purpose and strong, charismatic leadership. Someone like Dr. King or Malcom X, Harvey Milk or Huey Newton. Or, ideally, all of the above.
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Old 30th June 2019, 02:36 PM   #29
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The onion nails it:
https://politics.theonion.com/antifa...-ra-1819580235
Quote:
“We will stop at nothing to prevent these vile ******* neo-Nazi hatemongers from gathering, or, if not them, someone else,”
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Old 30th June 2019, 02:39 PM   #30
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Can we name all bigots as terrorists?

You and folks like you have been giving it your best effort.
Oh, for real? Got a citation?
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Old 30th June 2019, 02:41 PM   #31
I Am The Scum
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Also the "cement in the milkshake" claim is one of the oddest things I've heard in a while, and anyone who has accepted it without evidence needs to improve their skepticism.
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Old 30th June 2019, 02:52 PM   #32
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Jo Brand (who I once saw at a pub gig "before she was famous" and chatted with at the bar) recently made an edgy joke about "milkshaking" which many people didn't, er, get;

"... but I think that's because certain unpleasant characters are being thrown to the fore and they're very, very easy to hate.
And I'm kind of thinking, 'why bother with a milkshake when you could get some battery acid?'
I'm not going to do it, it's purely a fantasy, but I think milkshakes are pathetic, I honestly do, sorry
."

This rather demonstrates that the saying liberalism is mental illness is more than a pithy throwaway, it's demonstrably true, practically an aphorism.

I have no doubt that Jo Brand is a genuinely well-meaning person, a "nice" person as all liberals imagine themselves to be, and she's no dunce, but here she was blissfully unaware of the stark, almost deranged example of the moral relativism of liberalism she'd just mouthed.

It seems to take over the minds of those who submit to it, and is not unlike the 'submissiveness' to Islam that allows Muslims to hold such fantastically over-the-top double standards of morality for themselves and 'infidels'.
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Old 30th June 2019, 02:56 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Except for WWII, the American Civil War, numerous anti-imperialist uprisings, countless instances of self-defense, and so on. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor."

I'm not going to say that every instance of antifa activists' use of force is productive, or even justified; but when you're facing an enemy who does not even acknowledge your humanity, who would be perfectly happy to kill you or otherwise make it so that you simply do not exist in their world, well you do what you do to ensure that you and those like you continue to survive.

And it's a very privileged position to sit back, ignore history, and say "Well, violence never solves anything, and both sides are the same," when you're not the target of the fascists and bigots who are trying to eliminate your very existence, or at best turn you into a slave and treat you as less than an animal. Non-violence in the face of an enemy who does not acknowledge your humanity is not noble, it's suicidal.

The problem with antifa is that it's a myriad of very different people, from very different backgrouns, with differing worldviews, and no coherent philosophy or strategy aside from "resist those who are trying to destroy us with whatever means we have". That means that different groups will have different ideas on how to accomplish their goals, and the fact that many tend to over-react to such a threat is hardly unexpected, and more a result of having more passion than experience. Branding them as "terrorists" is at best a gross misunderstanding of both antifa's purpose and the purpose of terrorism.

While it's critical to be judicious in the use of violent force, it's still a very important and valuable tool against those who would use violent force to erase you entirely. What antifa activists need is a regular organization with a coherent purpose and strong, charismatic leadership. Someone like Dr. King or Malcom X, Harvey Milk or Huey Newton. Or, ideally, all of the above.

Well at least you are not over hyping the situation
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Old 30th June 2019, 03:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Except for WWII, the American Civil War, numerous anti-imperialist uprisings, countless instances of self-defense, and so on. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor."

I'm not going to say that every instance of antifa activists' use of force is productive, or even justified; but when you're facing an enemy who does not even acknowledge your humanity, who would be perfectly happy to kill you or otherwise make it so that you simply do not exist in their world, well you do what you do to ensure that you and those like you continue to survive.

And it's a very privileged position to sit back, ignore history, and say "Well, violence never solves anything, and both sides are the same," when you're not the target of the fascists and bigots who are trying to eliminate your very existence, or at best turn you into a slave and treat you as less than an animal. Non-violence in the face of an enemy who does not acknowledge your humanity is not noble, it's suicidal.

The problem with antifa is that it's a myriad of very different people, from very different backgrouns, with differing worldviews, and no coherent philosophy or strategy aside from "resist those who are trying to destroy us with whatever means we have". That means that different groups will have different ideas on how to accomplish their goals, and the fact that many tend to over-react to such a threat is hardly unexpected, and more a result of having more passion than experience. Branding them as "terrorists" is at best a gross misunderstanding of both antifa's purpose and the purpose of terrorism.

While it's critical to be judicious in the use of violent force, it's still a very important and valuable tool against those who would use violent force to erase you entirely. What antifa activists need is a regular organization with a coherent purpose and strong, charismatic leadership. Someone like Dr. King or Malcom X, Harvey Milk or Huey Newton. Or, ideally, all of the above.
Please don't call me privileged. I do not say that from a place of privilege, I say it from a place of terror. I want the fighting to stop.

It has gotten to the point where my few close friends think I should go to the doctor. I genuinely believe riots are going to break out, like, every night. I get these crazy, elaborate fears into my head and then they just remain. For example, I'm afraid that far-right loons will hack medical databases somehow and get lists of women who have had abortions in order to target them. I'm really afraid of what deepfake technology is going to do. I'm afraid of propaganda. I can't even watch porn anymore because it disturbs me. It's like I can't turn my mind off. I just see symbols of hatred and oppression and cultural sickness and violence in everything. I don't know how to stop obsessing about it, and no one wants to hear it.

So when I see people provoking these guys, I panic and want them to stop. I guess I do sort of think that the left would win more converts and defeat these creeps if they presented themselves as the calm, sensible ones? I guess that's what I think. I haven't really thought it through the whole way. I just am really freaked out.

I'm sorry if that didn't make sense. Honestly, you guys could probably ignore all my posts from the last couple of days. I'm not well. I'm definitely having severe anxiety overload since Thursday or so. (Haven't been able to eat, either.) I'm not thinking clearly, so I'm sorry if I was flippant.
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Old 30th June 2019, 03:11 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well at least you are not over hyping the situation

New Zealand may be a progressive paradise where everyone loves everyone else and they sit around singing old showtunes all day; but if you ever pull your head out of the sand and look at the rest of the world, I guarantee you you'll see just how idiotic that comment was.

Want to take a guess at how many black people and indigenous people are murdered by police every year in the US? And how many police actually face consequences for doing so? Want to take a guess how many immigrant children are still kept in cages, deprived of even the most basic hygiene and humanity? Did you miss the US Government effectively removing all civil rights protections for transpeople, and pushing to do so for LGBTQ people and women? Want to take a guess how many countries there are in the world were being LGBTQ is a capital offense?

Oh wait, you had that shooting thing there. I guess you forgot about that. Might want to look it up, to refresh your memory.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Old 30th June 2019, 03:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Please don't call me privileged. I do not say that from a place of privilege, I say it from a place of terror. I want the fighting to stop.



It has gotten to the point where my few close friends think I should go to the doctor. I genuinely believe riots are going to break out, like, every night. I get these crazy, elaborate fears into my head and then they just remain. For example, I'm afraid that far-right loons will hack medical databases somehow and get lists of women who have had abortions in order to target them. I'm really afraid of what deepfake technology is going to do. I'm afraid of propaganda. I can't even watch porn anymore because it disturbs me. It's like I can't turn my mind off. I just see symbols of hatred and oppression and cultural sickness and violence in everything. I don't know how to stop obsessing about it, and no one wants to hear it.



So when I see people provoking these guys, I panic and want them to stop. I guess I do sort of think that the left would win more converts and defeat these creeps if they presented themselves as the calm, sensible ones? I guess that's what I think. I haven't really thought it through the whole way. I just am really freaked out.



I'm sorry if that didn't make sense. Honestly, you guys could probably ignore all my posts from the last couple of days. I'm not well. I'm definitely having severe anxiety overload since Thursday or so. (Haven't been able to eat, either.) I'm not thinking clearly, so I'm sorry if I was flippant.
This just tells me that you are perfectly rational and sane, but your brain is in overthink things mode. I get that too, its bloody awful. Hope it passes quickly for you.
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Old 30th June 2019, 03:16 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Jo Brand (who I once saw at a pub gig "before she was famous" and chatted with at the bar) recently made an edgy joke about "milkshaking" which many people didn't, er, get;

"... but I think that's because certain unpleasant characters are being thrown to the fore and they're very, very easy to hate.
And I'm kind of thinking, 'why bother with a milkshake when you could get some battery acid?'
I'm not going to do it, it's purely a fantasy, but I think milkshakes are pathetic, I honestly do, sorry
."

This rather demonstrates that the saying liberalism is mental illness is more than a pithy throwaway, it's demonstrably true, practically an aphorism.

I have no doubt that Jo Brand is a genuinely well-meaning person, a "nice" person as all liberals imagine themselves to be, and she's no dunce, but here she was blissfully unaware of the stark, almost deranged example of the moral relativism of liberalism she'd just mouthed.

It seems to take over the minds of those who submit to it, and is not unlike the 'submissiveness' to Islam that allows Muslims to hold such fantastically over-the-top double standards of morality for themselves and 'infidels'.

Met her at Jongleurs in Clapham (When the place existed), next to the Cornet (when it was called the Cornet) many many moons ago.

You are right. She is a cool person.

But that is a dumb joke
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Old 30th June 2019, 03:19 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Terrorists don't break store windows and loot and assault people, they blow up buildings and hijack planes and kill people. Not all political violence is terrorism, you don't have to misapply the term "terrorism" in order to condemn bad behavior.
Yes. Thank you.
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Old 30th June 2019, 03:37 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
New Zealand may be a progressive paradise where everyone loves everyone else and they sit around singing old showtunes all day; but if you ever pull your head out of the sand and look at the rest of the world, I guarantee you you'll see just how idiotic that comment was.

Want to take a guess at how many black people and indigenous people are murdered by police every year in the US? And how many police actually face consequences for doing so? Want to take a guess how many immigrant children are still kept in cages, deprived of even the most basic hygiene and humanity? Did you miss the US Government effectively removing all civil rights protections for transpeople, and pushing to do so for LGBTQ people and women? Want to take a guess how many countries there are in the world were being LGBTQ is a capital offense?

Oh wait, you had that shooting thing there. I guess you forgot about that. Might want to look it up, to refresh your memory.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
So to get this right you are saying US police all are....

Quote:
....an enemy who does not even acknowledge your humanity, who would be perfectly happy to kill you or otherwise make it so that you simply do not exist in their world,
And your post was about the US

I am perfectly aware there are some dodgy places in the world, but don't try to shift the goal posts
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

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Old 30th June 2019, 04:02 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
So to get this right you are saying US police all are....



And your post was about the US

I am perfectly aware there are some dodgy places in the world, but don't try to shift the goal posts
For many people who aren't white, male, straight, older and somewhat financially secure like me, the U.S. is indeed one of those dodgy places.
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