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Old 30th June 2019, 04:35 PM   #41
IsThisTheLife
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Met her at Jongleurs in Clapham (When the place existed), next to the Cornet (when it was called the Cornet) many many moons ago.

You are right. She is a cool person.

But that is a dumb joke
IIRC it was in Camberwell, early 90's. I'd actually seen her previously and mentioned it to her - she was very self-effacing and said something like "oh well, you might well stay at the bar then".

I have to admit this faux-pas of hers seems very odd, out-of-character. I put it down to the mental illness of the liberal koolaid she and most of the West have been forced-fed (she was a psychiatric nurse once, ironically). She really didn't know what she was saying.
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Old 30th June 2019, 04:41 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Can we name all bigots as terrorists?

You and folks like you have been giving it your best effort.

Funny how when the shoe is on the other foot nuance is suddenly a thing. Almost like you view yourself as human. .. and the bigots as something else.
Hilited.... this should be easy. Please show me where I recommended that we name all bigots as terrorists.

Or you could retract your misrepresentation of my position.

Or you will be shown to be a liar.
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Old 30th June 2019, 07:23 PM   #43
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Anyone who fell for that "concrete milk shake" myth should feel really embarrassed right now: https://twitter.com/katemshepherd/st...92073224650753

Be careful with that recipe, kids. It's very dangerous.
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Old 30th June 2019, 07:36 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Anyone who fell for that "concrete milk shake" myth should feel really embarrassed right now: https://twitter.com/katemshepherd/st...92073224650753

Be careful with that recipe, kids. It's very dangerous.
Let's see...

1) Mix quick-set concrete in milkshake, ready to throw at target.
2) Get on bus and ride half an hour to the confrontation, search for target for another 30 mins.
3) Throw the fully-set concrete brick at someone...if you can still heft the bastard.
4) If you hit someone, get rightly arrested.

OR...

1) Search out target, then quickly pour concrete mix in milkshake, and shake!
2) Throw concrete slushie on target.
3) Hold them still for 30 mins while concrete slushie dries into an easily broken powdery crust.
4) That'll show the bastards!!


What a tale of nonsense!
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Old 30th June 2019, 07:37 PM   #45
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Police are denying that any quick-drying concrete was found in any milkshakes.

In a separate press release, they've warned residents to stay away from small piles of "Free Bird Seed" with large anvils suspended above them.

In another separate press release, they've requested whoever installed a dozen life-sized concrete statues on Portland sidewalks to please remove them.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:38 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I think we can pretty much conclude that this bunch would associate themselves with the name antifa being a loose collection of individuals who clearly and demonstrably believe in active, aggressive opposition to what they perceive as far right-wing players/supporters. I can't see why the reluctance to on here?
What reluctance? To classify a theoretical group of individuals as terrorists? I'm more concerned by the rush to declare any political dust-up as terrorism.

Again, since you the man with all the answers.... please give us a draft of the wording of this "Declaration of Terrorism". It was silly posturing by the OP. Here's some people who did something bad and it was politically motivated so let's have them classified as terrorists. Classified by whom? We gonna take our problem to the United Nations (apologies to Eddie Cochran)?

What the thug-brats were doing in the video I saw was clearly illegal. Does it cross some line into "oooh, scary... must be terrorism". If it does, then Donnie Johnny's crowds roughing up protesters are terrorists. Student demonstrators in Seoul are terrorists.

I'm not defending the actions of the thugs. I'm questioning the need to find the mostest worstest thing to call them. I knew a couple of actual terrorists in my youte. They wouldn't be caught dead in the middle of a crowded demonstration having a running fight. They were hiding in their atelier making pipe bombs to put in mailboxes or trash cans. Raining terror on the civilian population. It's what terrorists do.
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Old 30th June 2019, 08:58 PM   #47
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Don't know why we are even bothering to debate the pros and cons of "Antifa", capitalised or not.

To my skeptical viewpoint and having watched the video, this looks like an agent provocateur. The "attacker" could have been anyone, dressed head to toe in black with their face covered and no ID. But they picked on a journalist, not any other marchers. Plenty of other people were there carrying cameras and participating. But the pro-redneck journalist alone still gets picked out... Why? To make a shock-horror-it's-all-Antifa's-fault moment. And now the rednecks will get even more riled up for blood because they certainly won't ask questions. Job done!
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Old 30th June 2019, 09:12 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I've always objected to antifa's aggressive tactics (even though I obviously agree with their general sentiments about fascists and violent nationalist pigs). I think they do more harm than good. I don't think violence solves anything, and I definitely don't think throwing milkshakes at people does anything. It's just crude, and it makes it very easy for rightwingin' jerks to come up with martyrs and whatabouts (all while not really solving anything).

That being said, I've had a milkshake thrown at me before, and it is really not a big deal. Like, cry me a river. But still, they're giving the "other side" ammo, and they're not accomplishing anything positive to offset that fact.

This is only my opinion, of course. It's also tinged by the fact that I know some people who now consider themselves antifa (they used to be "anarchists," and before that, "punks") and they are just awful people. I may agree with them politically on some VERY basic principles, but I still despise them and I think they are ultimately misguided.

It might be if you were wearing an expensive suit or dress.
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Old 30th June 2019, 09:16 PM   #49
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Got to love all the "he was just asking for it" narratives going on.
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Old 30th June 2019, 09:24 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Don't know why we are even bothering to debate the pros and cons of "Antifa", capitalised or not.

To my skeptical viewpoint and having watched the video, this looks like an agent provocateur. The "attacker" could have been anyone, dressed head to toe in black with their face covered and no ID. But they picked on a journalist, not any other marchers. Plenty of other people were there carrying cameras and participating. But the pro-redneck journalist alone still gets picked out... Why? To make a shock-horror-it's-all-Antifa's-fault moment. And now the rednecks will get even more riled up for blood because they certainly won't ask questions. Job done!
First of all, I see multiple attackers, not just one. How many of those attackers are you claiming were "agent provocateurs"? You're essentially positing a "false flag" attack, right?

Quote:
The "attacker" could have been anyone, dressed head to toe in black with their face covered and no ID.
Sure, that's how antifa operates. They hide their faces with masks and hoodies, etc.
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Old 30th June 2019, 09:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
First of all, I see multiple attackers, not just one. How many of those attackers are you claiming were "agent provocateurs"? You're essentially positing a "false flag" attack, right?
Um, I saw only one. He (I'm assuming a he by the size) attacked repeatedly. The video was replayed from different angles. And oddly, he was shown afterwards standing with the police while they calmly ignored him.

Quote:
Sure, that's how antifa operates. They hide their faces with masks and hoodies, etc.
They have a uniform dress code now? The hooded masked attacker is a common trait of most provocateurs, left, right and ancient Hindoo. It's that "ninja assassin" thing. So just because they dress like that does not automatically make them Antifa. That linkage is only in your preconceptions. They could be anybody.
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Old 30th June 2019, 10:05 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I'm kinda wondering if Antifa shouldn't be treated as a terrorist organization?
You're wondering?
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Old 30th June 2019, 11:56 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
What reluctance? To classify a theoretical group of individuals as terrorists? I'm more concerned by the rush to declare any political dust-up as terrorism.

Again, since you the man with all the answers.... please give us a draft of the wording of this "Declaration of Terrorism". It was silly posturing by the OP. Here's some people who did something bad and it was politically motivated so let's have them classified as terrorists. Classified by whom? We gonna take our problem to the United Nations (apologies to Eddie Cochran)?

What the thug-brats were doing in the video I saw was clearly illegal. Does it cross some line into "oooh, scary... must be terrorism". If it does, then Donnie Johnny's crowds roughing up protesters are terrorists. Student demonstrators in Seoul are terrorists.

I'm not defending the actions of the thugs. I'm questioning the need to find the mostest worstest thing to call them. I knew a couple of actual terrorists in my youte. They wouldn't be caught dead in the middle of a crowded demonstration having a running fight. They were hiding in their atelier making pipe bombs to put in mailboxes or trash cans. Raining terror on the civilian population. It's what terrorists do.
I have seen people on here call anyone who voted Trump "White Supremacists, or even straight up Nazi .

I think the going for the mostest worstest name calling for groups of people line got crossed quite a while ago.

Funny watching it happen to the "other" side though.
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Old 1st July 2019, 12:03 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
What reluctance? To classify a theoretical group of individuals as terrorists? I'm more concerned by the rush to declare any political dust-up as terrorism.
I think it was crystal clear I was referring to the reluctance, of some, to pin the name antifa to this bunch of louts. I never mentioned terrorists nor even hinted at this, so I'm somewhat confused at your question.

Quote:
Again, since you the man with all the answers.... please give us a draft of the wording of this "Declaration of Terrorism". It was silly posturing by the OP. Here's some people who did something bad and it was politically motivated so let's have them classified as terrorists. Classified by whom? We gonna take our problem to the United Nations (apologies to Eddie Cochran)?
What are you on?

Quote:
What the thug-brats were doing in the video I saw was clearly illegal. Does it cross some line into "oooh, scary... must be terrorism". If it does, then Donnie Johnny's crowds roughing up protesters are terrorists. Student demonstrators in Seoul are terrorists.
Again, what are you on?

Quote:
I'm not defending the actions of the thugs. I'm questioning the need to find the mostest worstest thing to call them. I knew a couple of actual terrorists in my youte. They wouldn't be caught dead in the middle of a crowded demonstration having a running fight. They were hiding in their atelier making pipe bombs to put in mailboxes or trash cans. Raining terror on the civilian population. It's what terrorists do.
Thanks for the lesson, I think you'll find I never advocated for calling any group at all, terrorists in this thread.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:39 AM   #55
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Only right wing outlets carrying the story as far as I can see. It's mentioned on MSN, but there it is made clear that this is the journalist who claims that Antifa assaulted him. Waiting for Rose City Antifa to post their view on the event. Seems the "quick-drying concrete" lunacy is becoming "truth" tho.

Justin Smollett anyone?
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:16 AM   #56
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Apparently Ngo wasn't the only person attacked. There's a photo of a man with a bloody face:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8981331.html

I don't know anything about the "quick drying concrete" although that info came from the Portland Police. Perhaps they were incorrect.

ETA: it could be pepper spray or some other red substance on the man's face.
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Old 1st July 2019, 02:21 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Apparently Ngo wasn't the only person attacked. There's a photo of a man with a bloody face:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8981331.html

I don't know anything about the "quick drying concrete" although that info came from the Portland Police. Perhaps they were incorrect.
Lots of focus on what the anti-fascists were wearing and carrying in that article. The Proud Boys were carrying shields, weapons and wearing helmets as well. Might just want to mention that, for balance if nothing else.
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:00 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Apparently Ngo wasn't the only person attacked. There's a photo of a man with a bloody face:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8981331.html

I don't know anything about the "quick drying concrete" although that info came from the Portland Police. Perhaps they were incorrect.

ETA: it could be pepper spray or some other red substance on the man's face.
The previous photo shows him confronting people in black, with bandanas on their faces and dark glasses. Clearly they must be Antifa, because the same guy is shown in the next photo (allegedly) covered in blood from a head wound.

Except... Look at the first photo again. See the "Antifa" guy's mate just behind him? He's got a riot shield and a helmet on. And in the video, some of the "Antifa" are clearly carrying batons (check the backpacks) and also wearing helmets. These guys seem to have come prepared to street-fight. But...it's the Proud Boys who pride themselves on street-fighting. They do like to wield weapons and beat on people. Poster uke2se has mentioned this as well.

So who's doing the beating??
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:24 AM   #59
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Portland has a lot to answer for. Their "hands off" approach to these street skirmishes is abhorrent and will only embolden the street thugs to escalate their violence.

The state having a monopoly on violence is a foundation stone of lawful society. Portland is going down the path of madness.

Countdown to some Proud Boy or Antifa gunning people down in the street and the city of Portland asking "how did this happen in our city?"
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:26 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Portland has a lot to answer for. Their "hands off" approach to these street skirmishes is abhorrent and will only embolden the street thugs to escalate their violence.

The state having a monopoly on violence is the foundation of lawful society. Portland is going down the path of madness.

Countdown to some Proud Boy or Antifa gunning people down in the street and the city of Portland asking "how did this happen in our city?"
They could start by suspending the praxis of giving demonstration permits to extreme right wing groups who only come to Portland because they know there will be violence. What these groups are doing have nothing to do with freedom of speech or the right to peacfully demonstrate, and everything to do with wanting to win a street fight over "leftists".
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:29 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
They could start by suspending the praxis of giving demonstration permits to extreme right wing groups who only come to Portland because they know there will be violence. What these groups are doing have nothing to do with freedom of speech or the right to peacfully demonstrate, and everything to do with wanting to win a street fight over "leftists".
I agree that these groups are venue shopping when they set their rallies in Portland. They want a fight and Portland happily grants them an arena.

So long as there can be street fights with no legal consequences, there will be thugs drawn to the city. It's not hard to identify the small number of potential brawlers. Just have police monitor and follow the people who look like they walked off the set of a Mad Max movie and the problem will be easily sorted.

Denying permits because of street fights is surrendering to the heckler's veto. Arresting these people works, the city just needs to do its job.

I will note that Boston, like many other big cities, also has these right-wing goons show up. The difference is that our police show up in force and make it very clear that violence will lead to arrest. The alt-right goons yell at the antifa goons, but there's no explosion of violence. It is not necessary to deny permits to prevent public places from becoming a giant Thunderdome.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Don't know why we are even bothering to debate the pros and cons of "Antifa", capitalised or not.

To my skeptical viewpoint and having watched the video, this looks like an agent provocateur. The "attacker" could have been anyone, dressed head to toe in black with their face covered and no ID. But they picked on a journalist, not any other marchers. Plenty of other people were there carrying cameras and participating. But the pro-redneck journalist alone still gets picked out... Why? To make a shock-horror-it's-all-Antifa's-fault moment. And now the rednecks will get even more riled up for blood because they certainly won't ask questions. Job done!
Ah, yes. The old go out and get yourself beat up so you can blame it on someone trick. Works every time.



Here's the thing. Even if, in this case, it happened to be true, the only reason it could work is because the conspirators are imitating real people. There really are a bunch of idiots in America today who think it's trendy to get dressed in black, leave all their ID at home, and disrupt activities by violence. And there are idiots that they can protest who do the same sort of stupid stuff, but have different clothes and have different chants.

If we could just rent them a big open field where they can beat each other up, I think most Americans would be ok with that. The problem is that, instead, they show up in the middle of cities, and then windows get broken, and innocent people get hit, and police have to be paid overtime. A pox on all their houses.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:47 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Ah, yes. The old go out and get yourself beat up so you can blame it on someone trick. Works every time.



Here's the thing. Even if, in this case, it happened to be true, the only reason it could work is because the conspirators are imitating real people. There really are a bunch of idiots in America today who think it's trendy to get dressed in black, leave all their ID at home, and disrupt activities by violence. And there are idiots that they can protest who do the same sort of stupid stuff, but have different clothes and have different chants.

If we could just rent them a big open field where they can beat each other up, I think most Americans would be ok with that. The problem is that, instead, they show up in the middle of cities, and then windows get broken, and innocent people get hit, and police have to be paid overtime. A pox on all their houses.
Prohibit one of the groups and you'll automatically get rid of the other. I'll leave you to figure out which is which.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:54 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Prohibit one of the groups and you'll automatically get rid of the other. I'll leave you to figure out which is which.
Sadly, it isn't true, because Antifa has been found at lots of occasions, including "they invited the wrong people to speak at the university".


Also, the whole "prohibit one of the groups" idea just doesn't seem to fit in with American values.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:59 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Sadly, it isn't true, because Antifa has been found at lots of occasions, including "they invited the wrong people to speak at the university".
Fascists, yes. So what I said is still true.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Also, the whole "prohibit one of the groups" idea just doesn't seem to fit in with American values.
American values is to allow Nazi street gangs to intimidate a city and engage in outright battles with anti-fascist opponents?

'Cause that's what you have.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:04 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Fascists, yes. So what I said is still true.



American values is to allow Nazi street gangs to intimidate a city and engage in outright battles with anti-fascist opponents?

'Cause that's what you have.
Generalize all you want, but this thread is about some guy with a camera getting mobbed in the streets by mask wearing antifa goons. Andy Ngo was not engaged in violence when he was attacked. His beating for participating in the public square is inexcusable, no matter how much one may detest his brand of propaganda.

Portland is not being overrun with right wing or left wing goons. These videos never show more than a dozen or so people on either side engaged in the skirmishes. It is well within the ability of the police to quash this violence. They choose not to.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:05 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Ah, yes. The old go out and get yourself beat up so you can blame it on someone trick. Works every time.



Here's the thing. Even if, in this case, it happened to be true, the only reason it could work is because the conspirators are imitating real people. There really are a bunch of idiots in America today who think it's trendy to get dressed in black, leave all their ID at home, and disrupt activities by violence. And there are idiots that they can protest who do the same sort of stupid stuff, but have different clothes and have different chants.
All this, of course, applies equally to the Jussie Smollett case.

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Old 1st July 2019, 06:15 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
All this, of course, applies equally to the Jussie Smollett case.

Dave
Indeed yes. And the only reason Jussie though he could get away with it is that he was imitating real people.

Unfortunately for Jussie, he got some of the details wrong and his fake wasn't very convincing.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:15 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Generalize all you want, but this thread is about some guy with a camera getting mobbed in the streets by mask wearing antifa goons. Andy Ngo was not engaged in violence when he was attacked. His beating for participating in the public square is inexcusable, no matter how much one may detest his brand of propaganda.
How do you know what Andy Ngo has done? He's being portrayed as some journalist who just happened to be targeted by Antifa - something that is far from a given. He's a right wing agitator who regularly join extreme right wingers when they come to Portland to fight. He's not a journalist.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Portland is not being overrun with right wing or left wing goons. These videos never show more than a dozen or so people on either side engaged in the skirmishes. It is well within the ability of the police to quash this violence. They choose not to.
I don't know. I know from personal experience that crowd control of this kind is difficult. I also know that the best way to get it to stop is to stop handing out permits. The police know why the Nazis are coming to Portland. They are coming to fight.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:35 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
How do you know what Andy Ngo has done? He's being portrayed as some journalist who just happened to be targeted by Antifa - something that is far from a given. He's a right wing agitator who regularly join extreme right wingers when they come to Portland to fight. He's not a journalist.



I don't know. I know from personal experience that crowd control of this kind is difficult. I also know that the best way to get it to stop is to stop handing out permits. The police know why the Nazis are coming to Portland. They are coming to fight.
Sure, he's a propagandist, trying to shed antifa in the most unfavorable light possible. He laid out some very obvious bait and they gobbled it up.

One might question the character of people so easily baited into mob violence.

They are coming to fight and the police let them. I'm not saying that the police could totally eliminate violence, but they could do a lot more if they wanted. There were three arrests at this latest skirmish. They aren't even trying.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:38 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure, he's a propagandist, trying to shed antifa in the most unfavorable light possible. He laid out some very obvious bait and they gobbled it up.

One might question the character of people so easily baited into mob violence.
Doesn't take much to get it going in a situation like that. As you say, he baited them, and he got eggs and silly strings and milkshake. Unfortunately, the little fascist apparently got punched as well. Too bad, so sad. Still, Andy Ngo isn't a victim. He's an active player.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:41 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
He's an active player.
Sure. Bad actors all around. I will gladly repudiate all of these street thugs, regardless of ideology. The problem is those that presume to give Antifa a free pass to commit violence in the name of "safety". It's absurd.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:45 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure. Bad actors all around. I will gladly repudiate all of these street thugs, regardless of ideology. The problem is those that presume to give Antifa a free pass to commit violence in the name of "safety". It's absurd.
I'll give them a free pass to fight fascists, because that means someone does it. Law enforcement won't give them a free pass, however, and they should face punishment for what they do.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:49 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I agree that these groups are venue shopping when they set their rallies in Portland. They want a fight and Portland happily grants them an arena.

It's more than just granting them an arena. Portland police and government, like that of Oregon in general, has always had very strong white supremacist leanings. The state was founded on principles of white nationalism, after all.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...gation-n972161
https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/20...warm-exchange/

This is a city where white supremacist organization Patriot Prayer also came to one of the protests with rifles and other firearms, stationed themselves on a roof nearby, and were not treated as significant threat by police. Firearms were temporarily confiscated, then almost as quickly returned, and no arrests were made.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/..._on_portl.html

Had it been left-wing protesters or black people on that roof, I can guarantee that there would have been much more stringent action taken by police.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:51 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I'll give them a free pass to fight fascists, because that means someone does it. Law enforcement won't give them a free pass, however, and they should face punishment for what they do.
Law enforcement largely does give them a free pass. Portland is the repeat venue for these skirmishes because both sides are fairly confident they will not be arrested. This confidence is firmly rooted in prior evidence of police not intervening.

Portland is the poster child for how not to deal with fascist violence. "Let antifa deal with" is among the worst possible solutions, guaranteeing escalations and repeat incidents.

What exactly the motives are for the city not enforcing the law is unclear to me. Perhaps the city doesn't want to be seen as entering the political fray as they arrest violent actors on both sides of the skirmish. Perhaps they want a history of violence as a pretext for denying public assemblies. I can't figure out their motives, but the results are terrible.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:54 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Law enforcement largely does give them a free pass. Portland is the repeat venue for these skirmishes because both sides are fairly confident they will not be arrested. This confidence is firmly rooted in prior evidence of police not intervening.

Portland is the poster child for how not to deal with fascist violence. "Let antifa deal with" is among the worst possible solutions, guaranteeing escalations and repeat incidents.

What exactly the motives are for the city not enforcing the law is unclear to me. Perhaps the city doesn't want to be seen as entering the political fray as they arrest violent actors on both sides of the skirmish. Perhaps they want a history of violence as a pretext for denying public assemblies. I can't figure out their motives, but the results are terrible.
I can just say that this is not the view of the anti-fascists. In part because of what luchog says above, and in part because of their own experiences, they see Portland police as allied with the extreme right, protecting them and attacking the anti-fascists.

But it might be as you say. Maybe they need to crack down harder on the street violence. The first step - again - is to stop handing out permits for Nazis to come to fight.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:55 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Portland is the poster child for how not to deal with fascist violence. "Let antifa deal with" is among the worst possible solutions, guaranteeing escalations and repeat incidents.

"Let antifa deal with it," is an artifact of the police not actually wanting to do anything about the white supremacists in the first place. If they got involved, they'd have to either start arresting their white supremacist buddies, or find some way to convincingly explain why their policing is so one-sided.

Quote:
What exactly the motives are for the city not enforcing the law is unclear to me.

See my previous post for citations.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:58 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Terrorists don't break store windows and loot and assault people, they blow up buildings and hijack planes and kill people. Not all political violence is terrorism, you don't have to misapply the term "terrorism" in order to condemn bad behavior.
Terrorism is defined in U.S. law as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents," and does not require the sort of dramatic acts of which you speak. It is enough that the violence be politically motivated, organized, and directed against noncombatants.

If a bunch of thugs show up prepared to do violence, having announced their targets based on politics, the semantic analysis seems straightforward enough.
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Old 1st July 2019, 07:00 AM   #79
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I love how "Letting Nazis keep marching in the streets" isn't "escalation" but marching against the Nazis is.

It's the same way someone punching you in the face over and over isn't "escalating" the fight but you hitting them back is.
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Old 1st July 2019, 07:02 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
It's more than just granting them an arena. Portland police and government, like that of Oregon in general, has always had very strong white supremacist leanings. The state was founded on principles of white nationalism, after all.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...gation-n972161
https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/20...warm-exchange/

This is a city where white supremacist organization Patriot Prayer also came to one of the protests with rifles and other firearms, stationed themselves on a roof nearby, and were not treated as significant threat by police. Firearms were temporarily confiscated, then almost as quickly returned, and no arrests were made.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/..._on_portl.html

Had it been left-wing protesters or black people on that roof, I can guarantee that there would have been much more stringent action taken by police.
No doubt there are many compromised police officers.

White nationalist cops looking the other way for their brethren is certainly a very big problem. I imagine a close examination of police departments across the country would reveal an abundance of authoritarians and other undesirables.

But there is a leadership problem in Portland right now. It is increasingly clear that the standing orders are not to interfere. Ultimately this problem stops at the Mayor. Either he is giving this order or he has lost all control of his department. If he has lost control of the department, he should be yelling it from the rooftops day and night. My money is that the Mayor is complicit in the hands-off approach.

I don't think this is a case of bad cops undermining sound policing. It's more a total vacuum of law and order, in which bad cops are taking advantage to push their own ends.
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