TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
So where are the photos and videos which conclusively debunk Mr. Ingersoll's?
On a thumb drive making its way from The Outback?
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New CIT video with Lloyde England
- Thread starter Alzke
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So where are the photos and videos which conclusively debunk Mr. Ingersoll's?
On a thumb drive making its way from The Outback?
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Would you care to summarize that copy & paste word salad or is this just another post of yours that can be binned?
HOW CIT GOT LLOYDE'S STORY TRAGICALLY WRONG
This is, sadly, quite true.
But Lloyde was gracious and consistent in his responses to the haranguing he received from Aldo and Craig. He was confident that his story was true. He knew where he was, and he knew how it happened. He was unaware of other people's impressions of what had happened.
Lloyde never reacted against what was said about him by either the Official version believers, nor by those who claimed he was implicated in the crime. He just rose above it all, and ignored it, with great dignity. He constantly reiterated, in the face of Craig's unrelenting badgering that the photos showed his cab on the bridge, that he was THERE; he knew where he was WHEN IT HAPPENED.
26:18, Eye Of the Storm
Ranke: Now your car on the road, on the side of the road in this picture, was right HERE. (Points to bridge.)
Lloyde: No it wasn't.
Craig: Yeah we got pictures of it. Here it is.
Lloyde: My car is not there.
Craig: Nah, we got pictures of it.
Lloyde: No, my car was not there.
Craig: I can pull it up. I'll show you.
Lloyde: I don't care what you do. My car was at the Pentagon. My car was not across this bridge.
Craig: it was on this bridge. I'll show you the picture.
Lloyde: NO NO NO! My car was back here. (Points to cemetery retaining wall.) It was on Route, it was on 27.
Craig: I can pull up the picture. ... The car was right HERE.
Lloyde: No it wasn't.
Craig: This pole is Pole #1. It was right HERE.
Lloyde: No. This pole is beside the cemetery. The cemetery is OVER HERE.
Craig: The cemetery is yeah, it's over here.
Lloyde: THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
HERE, CRAIG VERY NEARLY "GETS IT":
Craig: All the poles that were down, if your car was over HERE (cemetery), IT WASN'T BY THE POLES, BECAUSE THE POLES are all right HERE (bridge).
THIS is the way they were, by that bridge.
Here's the first one.
This is the one they said went into your car.
Lloyde: THAT'S what THEY SAY. THAT'S NOT TRUE.
Craig: THAT'S the second one.
Lloyde: My car was down HERE (cemetery).
Craig: Well none of these poles were downed. They were all up in all the pictures.
Lloyde: REGARDLESS of what THEY SAY, I was THERE. I KNOW.
Craig: Well there's another picture of your car right HERE. That's where it was. So I can pull that up on the internet.
Lloyde: NO. NO. NO. Well the car is back HERE. I was driving it.
Lloyde then offered to take Craig there to show him exactly where the cab was at the time the pole hit it, and they drove past the cemetery wall twice, where Lloyde pointed out the precise spot.
Craig mocked Lloyde, and told him that there were no pictures taken of the cab there; they were all taken on the bridge.
However, what Craig did not know, was that lLoyde's cab WAS VIDEOED EXACTLY AT THAT LOCATION, WITH THE POLE STILL THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD, 7 minutes before Ingersoll took his first photograph of it on the bridge.
As they returned from the drive by the cemetery wall where the pole hit the cab, Lloyde's final words on The Eye of the Storm, were these:
Lloyde: These signs right HERE, where I was at. This is where the pictures were taken.
Craig: No they weren't!! There's no cobblestones there.
Lloyde: I'm telling you THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
Craig: There's no cobblestones.
Lloyde: THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
Craig: There ... Those... This is the sign that you see in the images. (Looking down to bridge.)
Lloyde: I understand but THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
Craig: These are the images of the VDOT pole, the VDOT camera pole, all of that. The cobblestone bridge. That's you. You're standing right next to it.
Lloyde: I don't have a problem with that I WAS NOT DOWN HERE.
Craig: See the cobblestone?
Lloyde: I WAS NOT HERE.
Craig: That's where you were.
Lloyde: I WAS NOT HERE.
Craig: No way. All the pictures show you there.
Lloyde: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
Craig: They show YOU there. Not just your car but YOU.
Lloyde: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY IT WAS.
Craig tragically interrupts here, for the nth time, so now we will never know what Lloyde was going to say.
Craig: How does that work though? How can the, all the images ... ?
Lloyde: IT'S NOT MY JOB TO TELL YOU ALL THAT.
MY JOB IS TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.
Lloyde told the truth.
He was not on the bridge when a pole was fired through his windshield.
That pole did not come from any light pole, and it was not hit by any plane.
After removing the pole from the windshield, Lloyde was " Run off from" his cab by the attending police officer, and Lloyde was shortly photographed and videoed far down Route 27, on his way home on foot.
Lloyde's cab was quickly removed from the cemetery wall, and relocated onto the bridge.
Rumsfeld then sent his bodyguard to retrieve Lloyde and drive him back to the cab where he, and the police detective who had earlier pushed Lloyde to the ground to force him to leave the cab, both supervised Lloyde while the incriminating photos were taken.
What I saw in the CIT videos from oh-so-long ago was an old man being bullied by a couple of young punks and I immediately sympathized with him.
This is, sadly, quite true.
But Lloyde was gracious and consistent in his responses to the haranguing he received from Aldo and Craig. He was confident that his story was true. He knew where he was, and he knew how it happened. He was unaware of other people's impressions of what had happened.
Lloyde never reacted against what was said about him by either the Official version believers, nor by those who claimed he was implicated in the crime. He just rose above it all, and ignored it, with great dignity. He constantly reiterated, in the face of Craig's unrelenting badgering that the photos showed his cab on the bridge, that he was THERE; he knew where he was WHEN IT HAPPENED.
26:18, Eye Of the Storm
Ranke: Now your car on the road, on the side of the road in this picture, was right HERE. (Points to bridge.)
Lloyde: No it wasn't.
Craig: Yeah we got pictures of it. Here it is.
Lloyde: My car is not there.
Craig: Nah, we got pictures of it.
Lloyde: No, my car was not there.
Craig: I can pull it up. I'll show you.
Lloyde: I don't care what you do. My car was at the Pentagon. My car was not across this bridge.
Craig: it was on this bridge. I'll show you the picture.
Lloyde: NO NO NO! My car was back here. (Points to cemetery retaining wall.) It was on Route, it was on 27.
Craig: I can pull up the picture. ... The car was right HERE.
Lloyde: No it wasn't.
Craig: This pole is Pole #1. It was right HERE.
Lloyde: No. This pole is beside the cemetery. The cemetery is OVER HERE.
Craig: The cemetery is yeah, it's over here.
Lloyde: THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
HERE, CRAIG VERY NEARLY "GETS IT":
Craig: All the poles that were down, if your car was over HERE (cemetery), IT WASN'T BY THE POLES, BECAUSE THE POLES are all right HERE (bridge).
THIS is the way they were, by that bridge.
Here's the first one.
This is the one they said went into your car.
Lloyde: THAT'S what THEY SAY. THAT'S NOT TRUE.
Craig: THAT'S the second one.
Lloyde: My car was down HERE (cemetery).
Craig: Well none of these poles were downed. They were all up in all the pictures.
Lloyde: REGARDLESS of what THEY SAY, I was THERE. I KNOW.
Craig: Well there's another picture of your car right HERE. That's where it was. So I can pull that up on the internet.
Lloyde: NO. NO. NO. Well the car is back HERE. I was driving it.
Lloyde then offered to take Craig there to show him exactly where the cab was at the time the pole hit it, and they drove past the cemetery wall twice, where Lloyde pointed out the precise spot.
Craig mocked Lloyde, and told him that there were no pictures taken of the cab there; they were all taken on the bridge.
However, what Craig did not know, was that lLoyde's cab WAS VIDEOED EXACTLY AT THAT LOCATION, WITH THE POLE STILL THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD, 7 minutes before Ingersoll took his first photograph of it on the bridge.
As they returned from the drive by the cemetery wall where the pole hit the cab, Lloyde's final words on The Eye of the Storm, were these:
Lloyde: These signs right HERE, where I was at. This is where the pictures were taken.
Craig: No they weren't!! There's no cobblestones there.
Lloyde: I'm telling you THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
Craig: There's no cobblestones.
Lloyde: THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
Craig: There ... Those... This is the sign that you see in the images. (Looking down to bridge.)
Lloyde: I understand but THAT'S WHERE I WAS.
Craig: These are the images of the VDOT pole, the VDOT camera pole, all of that. The cobblestone bridge. That's you. You're standing right next to it.
Lloyde: I don't have a problem with that I WAS NOT DOWN HERE.
Craig: See the cobblestone?
Lloyde: I WAS NOT HERE.
Craig: That's where you were.
Lloyde: I WAS NOT HERE.
Craig: No way. All the pictures show you there.
Lloyde: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
Craig: They show YOU there. Not just your car but YOU.
Lloyde: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY IT WAS.
Craig tragically interrupts here, for the nth time, so now we will never know what Lloyde was going to say.
Craig: How does that work though? How can the, all the images ... ?
Lloyde: IT'S NOT MY JOB TO TELL YOU ALL THAT.
MY JOB IS TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.
Lloyde told the truth.
He was not on the bridge when a pole was fired through his windshield.
That pole did not come from any light pole, and it was not hit by any plane.
After removing the pole from the windshield, Lloyde was " Run off from" his cab by the attending police officer, and Lloyde was shortly photographed and videoed far down Route 27, on his way home on foot.
Lloyde's cab was quickly removed from the cemetery wall, and relocated onto the bridge.
Rumsfeld then sent his bodyguard to retrieve Lloyde and drive him back to the cab where he, and the police detective who had earlier pushed Lloyde to the ground to force him to leave the cab, both supervised Lloyde while the incriminating photos were taken.
Had I summarised it, you would now be accusing me of "cherrypicking" quotes, and of inventing things.
Do what you wish with that complete, verbatim, detailed, factual, referenced record of all the official reports of the finding of the black boxes from "AA77".
Keep your head in the sand if you wish.
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Fair enough.
It surely doesn't require the contortions necessary to keep yours where it is.
waypastvne
Muse
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Can you explain why one of the victims in the photos was wearing a Navy Command Centre ID, if the photo was taken in New York.
ID worn by the victim is on left. Sample ID on right for comparison.
Bump
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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Oh - we have conflicting news reports! Now that throws the official story out the window!
Next thing, we might find out there was a car bomb at the State Department, the North Tower was hit by a Cessna, a Delta Flight was hijacked, WTC7 collapsed before 5 p.m., and Norman Mineta was in the presidential bunker at 9:25 already - all as initially reported!
Next thing, we might find out there was a car bomb at the State Department, the North Tower was hit by a Cessna, a Delta Flight was hijacked, WTC7 collapsed before 5 p.m., and Norman Mineta was in the presidential bunker at 9:25 already - all as initially reported!
bknight
Master Poster
I bet "they" (aka the evil doers you can't name) had a hard time decoding the “charred chunk of machinery.”
What was your point, you failed to read and comprehend? Good luck with Bigfoot, you can use the same evidence you use for the flyover - nothing but fantasy.
Yes, the FDR was found in the Pentagon, and it was decoded, and it proves it was 77, as does Radar, and DNA. Why are you unable to comprehend evidence that 77 impacted the Pentagon and Flight 77 Passengers were murdered at that instant. What happen to the Passengers who died at the Pentagon in the sick plot you can't explain. You google up http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=dick_bridges_1 -
"Head in the sand", is projection, on a massive scale.
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bknight
Master Poster
Interesting photo. Where did this happen? It appears to be from a plane that taxied into a building, thus was neither airborne nor travelling at great speed.
Curious that you posted a photo of a plane that had crashed into a building at a similar angle to the wall as AA77 was claimed to have done.
Yet the wings did not "fold back" as Mike Walter claimed happened to AA77.
These wings broke off at some distance from the fuselage, then due to their forward momentum, continued forward and impacted the wall, causing great and recognisable damage, even though at low speed, unlike what was observed at the Pentagon.
The wing pieces bounced off the wall and remained outside the building, just as some 9/11 witnesses said they were expecting to have seen, but did not.
Let us not forget that on 9/11, Mike Walter said he WITNESSED THE PLANE IMPACT.
Then on morning TV on 9/12, he reneged on that, and stated that he was unable to see the impact, as there were trees blocking his view (which was demonstrably true).
It was 5 years later that, in response to much public speculation about his constantly morphing testimony, Mike Walter made the YouTube video explaining that what he actually saw, was "THE WINGS FOLDED BACK", and were thus able to completely disappear into the narrow gash in the building ... as big a lie as any of his others.
As your photo very clearly shows, when the fuselage hits a solid object, its forward momentum is considerably attenuated.
The wings shear off, and with the same unimpeded forward momentum, they will continue flying forwards until they impact the wall.
Thanks again for clarifying that Mike Walter was a lying witness.
You witness an event once, unexpectedly and with a partially obstructed view, that lasts one fifth of a second. Who would expect you, or anyone, to observe and remember the mechanical details within that event accurately? One moment the wings were heading toward the wall at 777 feet per second, and the next moment they were gone from view. Unless you have a high-speed video camera or you're doing a detailed and accurate engineering simulation, rapid events like the wings folding back, crumpling up, or shearing off, are details the brain invents later to make sense of what you saw.
That's why we rely on the physical and documentary evidence. Radar, flight data recording, damage path, DNA. It's all there and it's all consistent.
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
I found this picture of the Corridor 1-2 Apex at the Pentagon on 9/11
Pause for thought Ruby?
Compus
Pause for thought Ruby?
Compus
waypastvne
Muse
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Can you explain why one of the victims in the photos was wearing a Navy Command Centre ID, if the photo was taken in New York.
ID worn by the victim is on left. Sample ID on right for comparison.
Come on Ruby. Explain it to us.
Teterboro, in 2005. https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20050202-0
Yes, that wall didn't seem to have reinforced concrete columns behind as the pentagon wall did. Walls of bricks are usually easy to break without a lot of force. They are sometimes demolished with just a sledgehammer.
But reinforced columns or not, as Captain Swoop has noted, the bigger the momentum, the more likely it is for the wings (or any object) to go through the wall. Throwing an empty soda can to a glass window will probably make it bounce; throwing a full can will probably make it break the glass.
Note that the wings of a 757, unlike those of a Learjet, also hold the engines and carry fuel, making them (a) sturdier and (b) much heavier (that doesn't apply to the region near the tip).
So, the part of the wings that had the engines and fuel went through the wall, and the tips of the wings, which were light and less resistant, may have folded or partially sheared and folded or totally sheared and still entered the building.
People are not used to an impact that powerful. The parts of the wings with the engines and the fuel broke the wall. The parts of the wings near the tips may have experienced what we see in the right wing of the Teterboro plane: a total shearing with inward rotation. Or just a partial shearing. Who knows.
77 did hit the Pentagon, the wings hit the building, they don't fold back or up, they were traveling at 483.5 knots, and the entire plane hit the Pentagon in less than 0.2 second.
Math, physics, FDR, DNA, Radar and witnesses confirm 77 hit the Pentagon. Things you seem to ignore to have a sick fantasy. You can't name who did your fantasy, what happen to the passengers, or why you spread some of the dumbest lies on the Internet; your legacy of woo for all to see.
Sick fantasy - why do you lie?
Add physics to the list of things you can't do and comprehend.
The wing damage can be seen at the Pentagon, but you don't do evidence, you prefer lies.
You have no experience with witness statements with respect to aircraft accidents/and in this case a crime committed by 19 idiots, associates of UBL. 19 terrorists you apologize for by spreading idiotic lies.
I thought 19 terrorists were gullible, and so are 9/11 truth/you who spread lies based on wild speculation and ignorance.
oops, wing marks from 77 on the Pentagon?
https://www.google.com/search?q=rui...4ILygC&biw=1600&bih=799#imgrc=ZHKUfL19Kf5ljM:
Where is your evidence? Right, fantasy requires no evidence. (fail interpretation of witness statements is not evidence)
If you have a point, why don't you make it?
This photo just proves exactly what I said, that Dennis Smith was standing on the ground inside the centre court between some large trees and below the 77 foot height of the roof, with 630 feet of cross section of the building between his position and the closest view from the west wall, of the approaching plane.
I've thought about it, and there is still absolutely no line of sight between Dennis Smith and the plane at any point.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Unless, of course, the plane had flown over the Pentagon, in which case Dennis Smith could not possibly have failed to notice it, his attention drawn by the ear-shattering roar of the engines at full throttle as the pilot pulled the plane out of its dive. Yet, strangely, he never mentions this, surely the most obvious observation he can possibly have made on that day. We can only conclude from this omission that the required events never happened, and that therefore Flight 77 struck the Pentagon.
Dave
CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
Where did you get this information? Please elaborate. How on earth does the photo prove what you state above?
The only facts I can find about this mans position at the time of the plane crash is the below from the interview with him that I posted previously:-
Dennis Smith said:
I welcome correction but from the photo it appears to me that the entrance/exit from the C1 & C2 Apex is situated in an elevated position above the main centre court area. You can see the sign indicating the Apex doors (behind where the guy in the hi-viz jacket is standing)
Perhaps someone who better knows the relevant layout of the Pentagon at that time can confirm or falsify my suspicions about this?
Compus
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CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
Ruby can you please answer the question I asked (post #273)
From that Dennis Smith transcript I presented (see post #268)
Ruby, how did these remnants of an aircraft get to where Smith saw them? Within a very short time of the plane crashing?
Have you read that transcript? Do you have any further thoughts on this mans testimony there?
Compus
From that Dennis Smith transcript I presented (see post #268)
Dennis Smith said:
Ruby, how did these remnants of an aircraft get to where Smith saw them? Within a very short time of the plane crashing?
Have you read that transcript? Do you have any further thoughts on this mans testimony there?
Compus
Flight 77's FDR found in Pentagon beats all your failed assessment.
Radar beats all your lies about the Pentagon.
Cherry picking witness statements makes your claims dumber.
This is some of the dumbest stuff about 9/11:
Paranoia produces fantasy, based on complete ignorance of FDR, Radar, and physics.
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I wonder the same.
I don't infer that. To me the apex is the general area, so Mr. Smith's statement is a bit unspecific. He could well be at the top of that structure, also pictured here:
Which is why I asked her this (and unsurprisingly, got no answer):
[ETA:] In the end, it doesn't matter whether he actually saw the tail or just thought he did; what matters is that he didn't see the plane flying over, as Dave Rogers has repeatedly noted (and ignored by rubygray as expected).
By the way, here's a rough fisheye correction of the picture you've posted:
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CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
I agree entirely, but Ruby deliberately chooses to ignore such possibilities and instead continues to rely on pure supposition and very dubious, convoluted interpretation of badly reproduced photos/video clips.
Again I can only wholeheartedly agree. How could Dennis Smith ever fail to see or mention such a sight as that huge screaming aircraft skimming the rooftop only 10's of feet above???
Thanks for that pgimeno. From that pic I estimate that the entrance/exit to the C1-C2 Apex is at least 15' above the main centre court area.
I still assert that the likelihood remains that Mr Smith ("I was standing at the 1 and 2 Corridor apex,") may well have been standing on that verandah and possibly able to see parts of the aircraft as it impacted.
Compus
What desperate codswallop you lot do indulge in.
Dennis Smith clearly stated that he WENT OUTSIDE INTO THE COURTYARD, AT THE CORRIDOR 1&2 APEX.
He was standing on ground level.
From this position - and indeed as I demonstrated with scale diagrams - even if he was at ANY OTHER LOCATION IN THE COURTYARD - Dennis Smith had ABSOLUTELY NO VIEW OF THE TAIL OF THE APPROACHING PLANE, which he said that he saw, SEVERAL SECONDS BEFORE THE IMPACT.
Whatever he saw, it was NOT THE TAIL OF THE PLANE ON ITS APPROACH TO THE WEST WALL.
Dennis Smith clearly stated that he WENT OUTSIDE INTO THE COURTYARD, AT THE CORRIDOR 1&2 APEX.
He was standing on ground level.
From this position - and indeed as I demonstrated with scale diagrams - even if he was at ANY OTHER LOCATION IN THE COURTYARD - Dennis Smith had ABSOLUTELY NO VIEW OF THE TAIL OF THE APPROACHING PLANE, which he said that he saw, SEVERAL SECONDS BEFORE THE IMPACT.
Whatever he saw, it was NOT THE TAIL OF THE PLANE ON ITS APPROACH TO THE WEST WALL.
There is a blue sign on top of the porch which merely says,
"CORRIDORS 1 & 2".
That is the obvious place to have such helpful signs, since there are many shrubs and obstructions inside the courtyard.
Stairs ascend each side from ground level to the rooftop of this porch, which probably is somewhere that people use on breaks. There is what appears to be a large FIXED WINDOW behind the man in the yellow vest. This is NOT necessarily an exit from the building.
Dennis Smith was VERY EXPLICIT as to his location.
"AT THE APEX" means, at the point where the two corridors meet, which is that large doorway on ground level.
"OUTSIDE" means, in the open air; not standing inside the building.
Please go back to my scale diagrams, and draw in your idea of the location meeting Smith's specific criteria, from which you imagine he had any view at all of the tail of the approaching plane.
Beachnut is the one who first suggested 4 seconds or 3,200 feet from impact, so that is the figure I used.
Michael Kelly was one of the very first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, at about 20 minutes after impact.
He was clearly in shock about what he witnessed. I have never seen any subsequent statement from him, after he had time to digest the events he saw.
He was travelling east on I-395, about to drive onto the 14th Street Bridge, when a plane flew over his car, VERY VERY LOW, VERY SLOW, and SOUNDING LIKE A SMALL PLANE.
No screaming jets at high speed.
He THEN heard the impact BEHIND HIM.
He looked BACK and saw the fireball and smoke rising from the OTHER SIDE of the Pentagon.
He stated that it was the plane which flew over his car, that hit the Pentagon.
This was obviously very confusing for him, as a few minutes' thought would prove that to have been impossible.
The only suggestion that makes sense of Michael Kelly's incredulous statement, is
* that the plane actually FLEW OVER the Pentagon,
* perhaps 2 seconds before the explosion,
* that it was travelling much more slowly than "official" data claims, and
* that it had cut way back on the throttle.
If Michael Kelly ever made another witness statement along these lines after he had watched the news footage and tried to rationalise that with what he saw, then it must have been suppressed, for obvious reasons.
Michael Kelly is not the only motorist on I-395 to have witnessed this.
waypastvne
Muse
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Can you explain why one of the victims in the photos was wearing a Navy Command Centre ID, if the photo was taken in New York.
ID worn by the victim is on left. Sample ID on right for comparison.
Come on Ruby, be a good Sheila and give us a fair dinkum answer to the quessie.
Flight 77's FDR was found in the Pentagon, on exactly the course 77 was flying - thus the desperate codswallop is your need to use Smith as a witness. You have failed.
You are saying he lied, thus you have refuted his statement. You can't use it. Radar proves it was 77 hitting the Pentagon.
You are calling him a liar, and don't know this is a fact. Again, the DNA from all the Passengers was found on the path found in the FDR, and the damage to the Pentagon is exactly what a 757 going 483.5 knots would do. If you had a practical knowledge of Physics, you would realize 77 hit the Pentagon. You are debunked, and continue to use a single witness for your fantasy you can't explain.
FDR from 77 found in the Pentagon - you lost this one, again
It does not matter, you failed. Why? FDR, DNA, Radar prove 77 hit the Pentagon.
You have no evidence for your lies. Big failure, and like CIT, no investigation skills.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
So you're going to assume that his testimony is an accurate and precise account of what actually happened, rather than the confused recollections of someone still in shock and not having had time to fully process events, despite the well-known principle that witness accounts are in general terms one of the most unreliable forms of evidence. And you're using this to evade the question: if AA77 flew over the Pentagon, pulling up from its dive and therefore needing the engines at full throttle, how could Dennis Smith have failed to notice it flying over his head with an earth-shattering roar? It's as if you were claiming he'd been punched by Mike Tyson but hadn't noticed it.
Dave
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
It seems much more likely that your "fixed window" is an exit door from C1-C2 Apex.
That "large doorway" is the access road to the A & E drive! I insist that the C1 & C2 Apex exit/entrance is above and behind the sign on the verandah. I await proof otherwise.
Nowhere in Mr Smiths testimony does he state he was at ground level in the centre courtyard. He was far from "very explicit", rather the opposite and quite vague about his position when he witnessed the jet impact.
Mr Smith does not state he saw the tail of the "approaching plane" he said that he saw the "tail of the plane come up" and an "instantaneous flash". This infers that the former more or less occured at the same time as the latter.
Compus
CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
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Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
That's a lie, rubygray. Dennis Smith said he went outside. At no point did he say "into the courtyard." You're making stuff up and trying to sneak it through as evidence for your theory, when in fact it's not part of the original evidence.
Dave
How do you reconcile that with Dennis Smith's statement?
I went outside and was talking to some contractors. All of a sudden we heard engines, not the normal sound for the planes overhead. When I was in the Marines I was in the Air Wing and I am used to the sound of the engines. This one had the pedal to the metal and was coming in fast. We turned around and saw the upright part of the tail, and then it hit.
How do you reconcile that with Dennis Smith not seeing a plane fly over, if it was in the trajectory of the courtyard?
My explanation is that Michael Kelly missed the roaring of the plane due probably to two factors: the shock, and the sound isolation of his car; additionally, that the plane did hit the Pentagon and did not fly over, otherwise Mr. Smith would have reported that.
What's yours?