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Old 25th July 2019, 06:49 AM   #81
luchog
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Oh good, I had started to think that there wasn't enough anti-trans prejudice being spewed into the forum lately. Good to the see the FARTs and reactionary bigots keeping their end up.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:02 AM   #82
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I'm actually discussing mixed-sex facilities here. I find the male entitlement one can guarantee to find on this forum quite educational.

I'm perfectly happy to discuss tampon fetishism if that's what people want to do, but I never claimed that was a principle reason for objecting to such facilities. Even if no such thing existed, forcing teenage girls to tolerate teenage boys in their lavatories and changing rooms is still a bad idea. Forcing adult men and women to tolerate the opposite sex in their lavatories and changing rooms is also a bad idea, although the reasons tend to be rather different.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:04 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I find the male entitlement one can guarantee to find on this forum quite educational.


Nothing, but absolutely NOTHING in this thread has anything to do with men having the right to anything. At this point you're simply starting to show signs of misandry. I get some of your arguments about trans-people, but you're taking this crusade too far.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:10 AM   #84
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There are no men here telling women what their boundaries should and shouldn't be (mainly shouldn't), and that it's not reasonable for them to be uncomfortable changing clothes or performing intimate hygiene tasks in the presence of men? Really? None at all?
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:11 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Then one has to ask why, if there were far less biased sources of news, they chose to share this particular website with its obviously questionable content.
One only has to ask that if trying to use it as some sort of fallacious argument about the motives of an arguer, rather than addressing the argument.

This thing happened. Some girls protested. Some other boys and girls counterprotested. "Ah, yes, but when describing the events, Cainkane1 used a RIGHT WING source! QED!"
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:13 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
There are no men here telling women what their boundaries should and shouldn't be (mainly shouldn't), and that it's not reasonable for them to be uncomfortable changing clothes or performing intimate hygiene tasks in the presence of men? Really? None at all?
Nope, mainly because everyone but you are talking about the entire population rather than just women. Not everyone is a misandrist, you see.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:14 AM   #87
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Could you repost that in English?
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:14 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
There are no men here telling women what their boundaries should and shouldn't be (mainly shouldn't), and that it's not reasonable for them to be uncomfortable changing clothes or performing intimate hygiene tasks in the presence of men? Really? None at all?
That's not what I said, no. But none of that has anything to do with entitlement, and certainly not being male.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:15 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
One only has to ask that if trying to use it as some sort of fallacious argument about the motives of an arguer, rather than addressing the argument.

This thing happened. Some girls protested. Some other boys and girls counterprotested. "Ah, yes, but when describing the events, Cainkane1 used a RIGHT WING source! QED!"
Do you see no problem in using highly biased websites as evidence? I do.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:16 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Could you repost that in English?
It's in English. Learn to read.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:21 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Oh good, I had started to think that there wasn't enough anti-trans prejudice being spewed into the forum lately. Good to the see the FARTs and reactionary bigots keeping their end up.
Yeah I also call teenage girls bigots for refusing to undress in front of me or not wanting to see my junk.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:24 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Yeah I also call teenage girls bigots for refusing to undress in front of me or not wanting to see my junk.
Or more to the point, not wanting you to see theirs.

Presumably in changing rooms and showers, not restrooms.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:27 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You're the one who brought it up, you can't complain about it being questioned. It fits neatly into your body of work on this topic in that it illustrates a vivid delusion of persecution where evil, perverted men are in league to victimize helpless, innocent women.

That's not a delusion. Evil, perverted, men do indeed victimize helpless, innocent women.

We could quibble about the "in league" part, including whether or not that's an accurate characterization of Rolfe's position. Does the occasional social media conversation about like minded perverts constitute being "in league"? I'll leave resolution of that issue to others.

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Old 25th July 2019, 07:28 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Or more to the point, not wanting you to see theirs.
Yes, that would be the first part of my statement: "not wanting to undress in front of me" - to which I then added the "or see my junk" as it seems to be a bit unclear what those girls are protesting exactly, being forced to undress in front of boys against their will or being forced to see those boys' genitals against their will.

I find it telling, though not unexpected, that they're being called bigots for refusing either.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:36 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
I find it telling, though not unexpected, that they're being called bigots for refusing either.
Those on one side are being called bigots, and those on the other are being called misogynists.

Fun all around.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:52 AM   #96
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One troubled boy is unhappy being a boy and demands to change with the girls and use the girls' lavatories. Response, poor child, of course you must do that if that's what's needed to make you happy.

Numerous girls are unhappy about having a boy in their changing rooms and lavatories. Response? Shut up bigots what makes you think your feelings about not wanting males to see you undressed or rinsing out your menstrual cup matter a damn?
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:52 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I think when discussions like this take place, many people are unaware of the range of gross and fetishistic behaviours that are out there.
Or that we are aware but understand correctly that it's irrelevant.

The fundamental argument is we as a society should never accommodate trans-gendered people, that is to allow them to comfortably exist being able to do simple things such as go to the bathroom without drawing attention to themselves causing them shame and possibly endangering them, because if we do we might inadvertently facilitate someone’s fetish, and that would be icky. Add shock value by describing some fetish many people may think of as gross.

Further, it’s okay that we oppress millions of people worldwide just to prevent inadvertently facilitating the fetishes of a handful of people because all this transgender crap is just in their heads, trans-women are really boys and trans-men are really girls and if we don’t indulge this nonsense they will realize they’re really tom-boys, gay or something else that doesn’t squick you out so much.

Also, to combat the relentless assault on nearly every civilizational institution by transgender activists.
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:53 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
One troubled boy is unhappy being a boy and demands to change with the girls and use the girls' lavatories. Response, poor child, of course you must do that if that's what's needed to make you happy.

Numerous girls are unhappy about having a boy in their changing rooms and lavatories. Response? Shut up bigots what makes you think your feelings about not wanting males to see you undressed or rinsing out your menstrual cup matter a damn?
Tell you what, how about I tell all of them to shut up and stop being so entitled?
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:54 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It's gross and disgusting and women feel dirty and used at the thought that their discarded products may be used in that way.

At my high-school, we have always had co-ed bathrooms only, students as well as staff. Nobody I've heard of ever found it to be a problem. And the stalls all have little plastic bags where women can discard of their used tampons or sanitary napkins. I think it's the same at all high schools, except maybe the old high schools where they used to have urinals for males.

But now you're telling me that all these years, the people who clean the bathrooms have been sitting on a goldmine, selling used tampons online!?
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Old 25th July 2019, 07:58 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Do you see no problem in using highly biased websites as evidence? I do.
Why? That particularly highly biased web site said exactly, word for word, what was said on the not so biased web sites of local television stations that covered the event.

I think it's fair to be wary of biased web sites when presented as evidence, but after the evidence is confirmed, then it really doesn't matter where one individual first saw it. What arcade22 did was to note that the source of the article quoted by the OP is suspect due to ideological bias. Fair enough. That should be checked out. So far so good.

So, I checked it out. It turns out that the article was accurate in its facts. Obviously, some of the article was opinion, but the facts that the article presented were accurate. I presented that, and even presented a way that anyone could independently verify those facts via a google news search.


And yet, arcade22 said that we still ought to ask why the OP's specific source was a right wing one. Why? Of what relevance could it be? The facts in the article are independently verified by non-opinion based media sources.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:01 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Those on one side are being called bigots, and those on the other are being called misogynists.

Fun all around.
Are they being called misogynists?
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:05 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
"Ah, yes, but when describing the events, Cainkane1 used a RIGHT WING source! QED!"

What do you mean, "RIGHT WING"?! Aren't they just Christian??!

...

Oh, I get it! Jesuit America magazine offers ‘Catholic case for communism’ - America Magazine, Catholic, Communism, Communist Manifesto, Dorothy Day, Karl Marx
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:06 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Are they being called misogynists?
Rolfe seemed pretty clear on that, yes.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:07 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
But now you're telling me that all these years, the people who clean the bathrooms have been sitting on a goldmine, selling used tampons online!?
I always thought my school janitor was weird....
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:12 AM   #105
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Quote:
.... accommodate trans-gendered people, that is to allow them to comfortably exist being able to do simple things such as go to the bathroom without drawing attention to themselves causing them shame and possibly endangering them....

Why is the only acceptable solution to allow these transgendered people (male boys in this case) to use the girls' facilities?

In the case under discussion, schoolchildren, it is the boy using the girls' bathroom that is drawing attention to him and yes, probably causing him shame. And in what way would he be endangered by carrying right on using the boys' bathroom he had been using all his life up till now?

What about the shame experienced by the girls being forced to undress or attend to intimate hygiene issues in front of a boy? Why is it always the uncomfortable boy whose feelings are prioritised, while the uncomfortable girls are called bigots and told they have no right to their boundaries?
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:13 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And yet, arcade22 said that we still ought to ask why the OP's specific source was a right wing one. Why? Of what relevance could it be? The facts in the article are independently verified by non-opinion based media sources.
Because, as liberal progressives, they're not responding to the factuality of the claims but to the standing of the person making the claims. I'm sure you can get some liberals, those who suffer most from this, to have trouble with the claim that the Earth is round merely by basing that claim on one of Hitler's speeches on the V2 which implies said claim.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:17 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Because, as liberal progressives, they're not responding to the factuality of the claims but to the standing of the person making the claims.
Yeah clearly liberals are unique in that respect...
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:20 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
One troubled boy is unhappy being a boy and demands to change with the girls and use the girls' lavatories. Response, poor child, of course you must do that if that's what's needed to make you happy.

Numerous girls are unhappy about having a boy in their changing rooms and lavatories. Response? Shut up bigots what makes you think your feelings about not wanting males to see you undressed or rinsing out your menstrual cup matter a damn?
Numerous girls no doubt want to throw out the fat and ugly ones among themselves out of the changing rooms too, but I sure as hell wouldn't humor them and their spitefulness no matter how entitled they feel.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:23 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Numerous girls no doubt want to throw out the fat and ugly ones among themselves out of the changing rooms too, but I sure as hell wouldn't humor them and their spitefulness no matter how entitled they feel.

And that completely imaginary allegation is relevant to the discussion just how, exactly?

Perhaps you're trying to say that some girls can be bitchy, therefore it is justified always to centre the boy's feelings and dismiss the girls'. If so, you make my previous point for me.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:24 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah clearly liberals are unique in that respect...
Never said they are unique in that respect.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:31 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
And that completely imaginary allegation is relevant to the discussion just how, exactly?
I'm betting we could find more instances of girls fatshaming each other than we can of men scavenging used tampons from women's restroom garbage.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:34 AM   #112
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Girls fatshaming each other has never been suggested as a reason to exclude girls from the girls' facilities, so its only relevance to this debate must be to portray girls as undeserving of any consideration. Unlike boys, who must be allowed to do whatever they want apparently.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:37 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Perhaps you're trying to say that some girls can be bitchy, therefore it is justified always to centre the boy's feelings and dismiss the girls'. If so, you make my previous point for me.
No, the point was to show that girls being "unhappy about something" isn't a good argument for anything. There's no meaningful difference for some spiteful and entitled bully to be objecting to the mere presence of fat/ugly girls or trans girls.

Humoring this kind of behavior is tantamount to encouraging bullying, exclusion and completely unwarranted discrimination.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:40 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Girls fatshaming each other has never been suggested as a reason to exclude girls from the girls' facilities, so its only relevance to this debate must be to portray girls as undeserving of any consideration. Unlike boys, who must be allowed to do whatever they want apparently.
That's the worst strawman I've seen in a long time.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:42 AM   #115
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I was responding to a strawman. The strawman where someone invoked imagined bad behaviour of some girls as a reason to deny the comfort and modesty of all girls.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:43 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Girls fatshaming each other has never been suggested as a reason to exclude girls from the girls' facilities, so its only relevance to this debate must be to portray girls as undeserving of any consideration. Unlike boys, who must be allowed to do whatever they want apparently.
I believe the argument is: Because we wouldn't exclude fat girls merely because the other girls don't want her in the shower with them, therefor we should not exclude anyone merely because the girls don't want said person in the shower with them. The silliness of the argument can easily be seen by applying it to pedophiles: "Well we're not going to exclude fat girls from showering with you so we're also not going to exclude pedophiles from being there!"
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:44 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
No, the point was to show that girls being "unhappy about something" isn't a good argument for anything. There's no meaningful difference for some spiteful and entitled bully to be objecting to the mere presence of fat/ugly girls or trans girls.

Humoring this kind of behavior is tantamount to encouraging bullying, exclusion and completely unwarranted discrimination.

This discussion is not about anyone objecting to fat or ugly girls. It was introduced as the most blatant whatabootery I ever saw.

So if girls being "unhappy about something" isn't a good argument for anything, why is a single boy being "unhappy about something" reason to grant his every whim?
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:45 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
That's the worst strawman I've seen in a long time.
I dunno, it's kind of impressive when someone can simultaneously bully a tiny, weak minority while making extravagant claims of persecution.
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:55 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Never said they are unique in that respect.
Then what's the point of mentioning it at all, not to mention as a liberal thing?
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Old 25th July 2019, 08:57 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
And that completely imaginary allegation is relevant to the discussion just how, exactly?
Ah, so now imaginary allegations are irrelevant?

Quote:
Girls fatshaming each other has never been suggested as a reason to exclude girls from the girls' facilities
The point is that there are a number of things women might find uncomfortable in the restrooms or changing rooms. Are we to ban them all?
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