Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

Matthew Best · 2nd August 2019, 02:35 AM

Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today for apparently attacking Greta Thunberg, the teenage climate change campaigner (who, I was surprised to note) has not been mentioned on this forum before - at least searching for "Thunberg" gives no results).

Unfortunately Bolt's column is behind a paywall, so I can't see exactly what he said, beyond his opening few paragraphs, which include:

"No teenager is more freakishly influential than Greta Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement.

...

I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru."

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

uke2se · 2nd August 2019, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today for apparently attacking Greta Thunberg, the teenage climate change campaigner (who, I was surprised to note) has not been mentioned on this forum before - at least searching for "Thunberg" gives no results).

Unfortunately Bolt's column is behind a paywall, so I can't see exactly what he said, beyond his opening few paragraphs, which include:

"No teenager is more freakishly influential than Greta Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement.

...

I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru."

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

First of all, Andrew Bolt is a denier known for being wrong about pretty much everything. He's an arch-conservative racist as well.

Greta Thunberg is inspiring because she's young and has aspergers, and despite these drawbacks manage to upset deniers by virtue of energizing people into action on climate change. I get why the deniers are afraid of her. I hope she has someone thinking about her personal safety, because she's dangerous enough for them to go after her, or at least use the right wing radicalization channels to get one of the loonies to do it.

catsmate · 2nd August 2019, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today

At this point, if your're familiar with Bolt. you can stop reading. He's a right-wing wackjob who's made numerous assertions that are at variance with factual reality (i.e. lies). These include:
1. He accuses a magistrate (a low level judge) of hugging and congratulating two freed drug traffickers. She was awarded damaged for defamation.
2. Ionising radiation has #health benefits'. He parroted Coulter's drivel.#
3. There was no 'Stolen Generation' in Australia. He's been comprehensively refuted on this lie.
4. Climate change isn't real. He's described it as a "pagan cult", "neo-pagan gospel", "giddiest ideology of all" and "great sham".

He's also been convicted of racism ('[racial vilification') and is a regular defended of convicted cild molesting cardinal Pell. Ignore his rantings.

Even John Birmingham considers his an idiot and an "oxygen thief". Other colleagues in the Australian journalistic coimmity have described him as "champion of the overdog" and "self-parodying buffoon".

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

Something else.

The Great Zaganza · 2nd August 2019, 02:58 AM

Sounds like someone is jealous...

Robin · 2nd August 2019, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Someone called Andrew Bolt ...

Normally it is pretty safe to stop there.

Quote:

So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have?

Matthew Best · 2nd August 2019, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

Normally it is pretty safe to stop there.

In that case, I'm glad to say I've never heard of him before.

Quote:

This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have?

I doubt her critics are specific on the point, they just say she's "crazy".

3point14 · 2nd August 2019, 04:55 AM

Textbook Ad Hominem attack. What a weak man.

catsmate · 2nd August 2019, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have?

ASD. She's autistic.
She also terrifies the rightist AGW deniers. Hence their continual attacks.

Robin · 2nd August 2019, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

ASD. She's autistic.

I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness.

Puppycow · 2nd August 2019, 05:22 AM

Quote:

The United States, the last bastion of the heathen

Maybe we can stop right there?

So this Andrew Bolt fellow is some kind of religious nut who hates America.

Dave Rogers · 2nd August 2019, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness.

It's not what anyone competent would call a mental illness, in fact. Asperger's Syndrome is a developmental disorder - the normal processes of the brain are somewhat different in a person with AS than in one without - rather than a mental illness, in which the normal processes of the brain for that individual are impaired or temporarily disordered. And it's unwarranted for Bolt to refer to "so many mental disorders" when in fact Thunberg is known to have only one, and one that many people have found not to prevent them having an enjoyable and productive life.

There's also a rather subtle hedas-I-win, tails-you-lose in play in the column. Remember how Emma Thompson was recently criticised for flying to New York after saying people should fly less? Now Thunberg is being criticised for sailing to the US because (a) it's too uncompromising and (b) it looks like a publicity stunt. So apparently it's wrong either to compromise or not to compromise.

Andrew Bolt's not a member, is he? Just thought I'd check in case I want to say what I really think of him.

Dave

Childlike Empress · 2nd August 2019, 06:08 AM

My favorite Greta picture:

She's 16 years old, btw.

uke2se · 2nd August 2019, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

It's not what anyone competent would call a mental illness, in fact. Asperger's Syndrome is a developmental disorder - the normal processes of the brain are somewhat different in a person with AS than in one without - rather than a mental illness, in which the normal processes of the brain for that individual are impaired or temporarily disordered. And it's unwarranted for Bolt to refer to "so many mental disorders" when in fact Thunberg is known to have only one, and one that many people have found not to prevent them having an enjoyable and productive life.

There's also a rather subtle hedas-I-win, tails-you-lose in play in the column. Remember how Emma Thompson was recently criticised for flying to New York after saying people should fly less? Now Thunberg is being criticised for sailing to the US because (a) it's too uncompromising and (b) it looks like a publicity stunt. So apparently it's wrong either to compromise or not to compromise.

Andrew Bolt's not a member, is he? Just thought I'd check in case I want to say what I really think of him.

Dave

He's a public figure, so shouldn't matter.

Bolt's a dolt.

catsmate · 2nd August 2019, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Robin

I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness.

Neuroatypical is the preferred tern now.
However Dolt neither understands this nor cares, is an AGW denying cretin, wants to stir up believers and is employed by Murdoch.

catsmate · 2nd August 2019, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Maybe we can stop right there?

So this Andrew Bolt fellow is some kind of religious nut who hates America.

Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

Puppycow · 2nd August 2019, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

I realized that I misinterpreted that bit. He meant "heathen" in the ironic sense, not the literal one. Like she is a kind of missionary going to convert the "heathens" to the religion of global warming. But that means that he sees it as on par with a religion, and not a valid scientific theory.

Giz · 2nd August 2019, 08:54 AM

I don’t think there’s any justification for sneering at Greta thunberg.

Now, sneering at a society that takes complex policy advice from children... yeah,, maybe so.

Matthew Best · 2nd August 2019, 09:00 AM

How about sneering at a society that needs to take complex policy advice from children?

Dave Rogers · 2nd August 2019, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Giz

Now, sneering at a society that ~~takes~~ needs complex policy advice from children... yeah,, maybe so.

FTFY.

Dave

ETA: Ninja'd.

Giz · 2nd August 2019, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

How about sneering at a society that needs to take complex policy advice from children?

Of course.

applecorped · 2nd August 2019, 09:27 AM

Hogg has faded, need a new pawn

Chris_Halkides · 2nd August 2019, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

The safety of the conviction of Cardinal Pell is a subject about which reasonable minds may disagree, for about seven pages in the Trials and Errors section. Therefore, I do not accept the proposition that Bolt is a nut on the basis of his position on this one issue.

Venom · 2nd August 2019, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

My favorite Greta picture:

https://i.imgur.com/qgK26Iy.jpg

She's 16 years old, btw.

She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously.

jimbob · 2nd August 2019, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides

The safety of the conviction of Cardinal Pell is a subject about which reasonable minds may disagree, for about seven pages in the Trials and Errors section. Therefore, I do not accept the proposition that Bolt is a nut on the basis of his position on this one issue.

Regardless of his individual conviction, he certainly was instrumental in obstructing justice for victims of other priests which is enough to damn him in my eyes.

Given the history of allegations against him, stretching back several decades, and the cases that were dropped for good reasons, it's pretty certain he was guilty anyway.

Skeptic Ginger · 2nd August 2019, 01:47 PM

Greta replies:

Quote:

I am indeed ”deeply disturbed” about the fact that these hate and conspiracy campaigns are allowed to go on and on and on just because we children communicate and act on the science. Where are the adults? pic.twitter.com/xDSlN0VgtZ

Greta Thunberg (@GretaThunberg) August 1, 2019

I find it fantastic that instead of saying she's deeply disturbed about global warming she went this intelligent route.

Childlike Empress · 2nd August 2019, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously.

Indeed she looks like 12, but if she weren't taken seriously in a way, none of us would have ever heard about her. She had an audience with the pope and spoke at several parliaments (EU, France, UK?). I think the question in the thread title is a false dichotomy. She can be both a brave campaigner and deeply disturbed at the same time. What is obvious is that she is useful to powerful people. And the person who created that useful product is her father (her mother has written an interesting book).

What we see in her follower's faces in the picture is what she explicitly demands: panic. And we old navigators of the galaxy know that rule one for success is not to panic.

I feel very ambivalent about this phenomenon.

theprestige · 2nd August 2019, 03:53 PM

Dude I've never heard of calls out other dude I've never heard of. Somehow this is important.

Whatever. I have a policy of not taking children seriously on any issue.

Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

Arcade22 · 2nd August 2019, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously.

She does have a baby face. No doubt some people find it incredibly infuriating to be lectured by a "little kid", a little girl even, even-though she's actually 16 years old.

Of course many people would need to assert their vulnerable egos from such a bruising by, as is customary, attacking her appearance or assailing her on other superficial grounds. That's why much of the criticism very quickly takes such a vicious and very personal tone. Often you'd get the impression that they are more interested in bashing her than what she actually says.

Pterodactyl · 2nd August 2019, 03:57 PM

Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.

Arcade22 · 2nd August 2019, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

When 99% of scientists working on climate science aren't persuasive enough to convince climate change deniers that they are wrong I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter who says what.

theprestige · 2nd August 2019, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.

Didn't you see The Predator? Autism is the next stage of human evolution. It's literally a superpower. She's basically a real life X-men.

Merely human scientists, for all their decades of mature experience and professional expertise, don't hold a candle to her magical autism.

Childlike Empress · 2nd August 2019, 04:02 PM

I wouldn't worry too much, Arcade22. There's already panic in your face over the Russian hoax, so you are fitting right in without believing in St, Greta,

theprestige · 2nd August 2019, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

When 99% of scientists working on climate science aren't persuasive enough to convince climate change deniers that they are wrong I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter who says what.

I wholeheartedly agree. So what's the point of Thunberg-as-poster-child?

Childlike Empress · 2nd August 2019, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not?

Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.

She's 16.

Pterodactyl · 2nd August 2019, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Didn't you see The Predator? Autism is the next stage of human evolution. It's literally a superpower. She's basically a real life X-men.

Merely human scientists, for all their decades of mature experience and professional expertise, don't hold a candle to her magical autism.

I... did not see the version of predator you're talking about.

Saw one with Schwarzenegger and Jesse the Body. Then vaguely remember another with Danny Glover. Don't remember any autistics unless you count that anti-social Native American dude who slashes his chest open with a knife for no other reason than to look like a badass.

If it bleeds, it can die.

Pterodactyl · 2nd August 2019, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

She's 16.

Oh never mind.
I think she's a great spokesperson then.

Skeptic Ginger · 2nd August 2019, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Dude I've never heard of calls out other dude I've never heard of. Somehow this is important.

Whatever. I have a policy of not taking children seriously on any issue.

Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

Been sleeping under a rock or something?

Or is this some kind of tp sarcasm we're all supposed to magically understand?

You appear to have no clue what Greta has accomplished. Should I fill you in?

Inspired by 16-year-old Swedish activist Greta Thunberg's weekly protests, the global youth climate movement has swept the globe, with students organizing strikes on every continent.

theprestige · 2nd August 2019, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl

I... did not see the version of predator you're talking about.

Saw one with Schwarzenegger and Jesse the Body. Then vaguely remember another with Danny Glover. Don't remember any autistics unless you count that anti-social Native American dude who slashes his chest open with a knife for no other reason than to look like a badass.

If it bleeds, it can die.

You're referring to Predator and Predator 2.

There's a more recent movie: The Predator.

Skeptic Ginger · 2nd August 2019, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

She does have a baby face. No doubt some people find it incredibly infuriating to be lectured by a "little kid", a little girl even, even-though she's actually 16 years old.

Of course many people would need to assert their vulnerable egos from such a bruising by, as is customary, attacking her appearance or assailing her on other superficial grounds. That's why much of the criticism very quickly takes such a vicious and very personal tone. Often you'd get the impression that they are more interested in bashing her than what she actually says.

Despite her looks, she is an excellent public speaker.

Pterodactyl · 2nd August 2019, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

You're referring to Predator and Predator 2.

There's a more recent movie: The Predator.

https://youtu.be/N9YsrGHmwIg

2nd August 2019, 02:35 AM	#1
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 7,131	Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed? Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today for apparently attacking Greta Thunberg, the teenage climate change campaigner (who, I was surprised to note) has not been mentioned on this forum before - at least searching for "Thunberg" gives no results). Unfortunately Bolt's column is behind a paywall, so I can't see exactly what he said, beyond his opening few paragraphs, which include: "No teenager is more freakishly influential than Greta Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement. ... I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru." So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else?

2nd August 2019, 02:41 AM	#2
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,425	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today for apparently attacking Greta Thunberg, the teenage climate change campaigner (who, I was surprised to note) has not been mentioned on this forum before - at least searching for "Thunberg" gives no results). Unfortunately Bolt's column is behind a paywall, so I can't see exactly what he said, beyond his opening few paragraphs, which include: "No teenager is more freakishly influential than Greta Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement. ... I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru." So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else? First of all, Andrew Bolt is a denier known for being wrong about pretty much everything. He's an arch-conservative racist as well. Greta Thunberg is inspiring because she's young and has aspergers, and despite these drawbacks manage to upset deniers by virtue of energizing people into action on climate change. I get why the deniers are afraid of her. I hope she has someone thinking about her personal safety, because she's dangerous enough for them to go after her, or at least use the right wing radicalization channels to get one of the loonies to do it.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 Last edited by uke2se; 2nd August 2019 at 02:42 AM.

2nd August 2019, 02:54 AM	#3
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 21,326	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Someone called Andrew Bolt is in the news today At this point, if your're familiar with Bolt. you can stop reading. He's a right-wing wackjob who's made numerous assertions that are at variance with factual reality (i.e. lies). These include: 1. He accuses a magistrate (a low level judge) of hugging and congratulating two freed drug traffickers. She was awarded damaged for defamation. 2. Ionising radiation has #health benefits'. He parroted Coulter's drivel.# 3. There was no 'Stolen Generation' in Australia. He's been comprehensively refuted on this lie. 4. Climate change isn't real. He's described it as a "pagan cult", "neo-pagan gospel", "giddiest ideology of all" and "great sham". He's also been convicted of racism ('[racial vilification') and is a regular defended of convicted cild molesting cardinal Pell. Ignore his rantings. Even John Birmingham considers his an idiot and an "oxygen thief". Other colleagues in the Australian journalistic coimmity have described him as "champion of the overdog" and "self-parodying buffoon". Originally Posted by Matthew Best So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else? Something else.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. Last edited by catsmate; 2nd August 2019 at 02:56 AM.

2nd August 2019, 02:58 AM	#4
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 10,237	Sounds like someone is jealous...
	__________________ “Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”-Sen. Lindsey Graham

2nd August 2019, 04:30 AM	#5
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,008	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Someone called Andrew Bolt ... Normally it is pretty safe to stop there. Quote: So, Thunberg - a force for much-needed change, or a mentally ill "pig-tailed soothsayer". Or something else? This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have?
	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

2nd August 2019, 04:35 AM	#6
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 7,131	Originally Posted by Robin Normally it is pretty safe to stop there. In that case, I'm glad to say I've never heard of him before. Quote: This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have? I doubt her critics are specific on the point, they just say she's "crazy".

2nd August 2019, 04:55 AM	#7
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,723	Textbook Ad Hominem attack. What a weak man.
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,723	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

2nd August 2019, 04:56 AM	#8
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 21,326	Originally Posted by Robin This is new. What mental illness is she supposed to have? ASD. She's autistic. She also terrifies the rightist AGW deniers. Hence their continual attacks.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

2nd August 2019, 05:06 AM	#9
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,008	Originally Posted by catsmate ASD. She's autistic. I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness.
	__________________ The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

2nd August 2019, 05:22 AM	#10
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,195	Quote: The United States, the last bastion of the heathen Maybe we can stop right there? So this Andrew Bolt fellow is some kind of religious nut who hates America.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

2nd August 2019, 05:58 AM	#11
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 29,949	Originally Posted by Robin I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness. It's not what anyone competent would call a mental illness, in fact. Asperger's Syndrome is a developmental disorder - the normal processes of the brain are somewhat different in a person with AS than in one without - rather than a mental illness, in which the normal processes of the brain for that individual are impaired or temporarily disordered. And it's unwarranted for Bolt to refer to "so many mental disorders" when in fact Thunberg is known to have only one, and one that many people have found not to prevent them having an enjoyable and productive life. There's also a rather subtle hedas-I-win, tails-you-lose in play in the column. Remember how Emma Thompson was recently criticised for flying to New York after saying people should fly less? Now Thunberg is being criticised for sailing to the US because (a) it's too uncompromising and (b) it looks like a publicity stunt. So apparently it's wrong either to compromise or not to compromise. Andrew Bolt's not a member, is he? Just thought I'd check in case I want to say what I really think of him. Dave
	__________________ Inspiring discussion of Sharknado is not a good sign for the audience expectations of your new high-concept SF movie sequel. - Myriad

2nd August 2019, 06:08 AM	#12
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 17,675	My favorite Greta picture: She's 16 years old, btw.
	__________________ Audiatur et altera pars

2nd August 2019, 06:17 AM	#13
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,425	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers It's not what anyone competent would call a mental illness, in fact. Asperger's Syndrome is a developmental disorder - the normal processes of the brain are somewhat different in a person with AS than in one without - rather than a mental illness, in which the normal processes of the brain for that individual are impaired or temporarily disordered. And it's unwarranted for Bolt to refer to "so many mental disorders" when in fact Thunberg is known to have only one, and one that many people have found not to prevent them having an enjoyable and productive life. There's also a rather subtle hedas-I-win, tails-you-lose in play in the column. Remember how Emma Thompson was recently criticised for flying to New York after saying people should fly less? Now Thunberg is being criticised for sailing to the US because (a) it's too uncompromising and (b) it looks like a publicity stunt. So apparently it's wrong either to compromise or not to compromise. Andrew Bolt's not a member, is he? Just thought I'd check in case I want to say what I really think of him. Dave He's a public figure, so shouldn't matter. Bolt's a dolt.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

2nd August 2019, 06:34 AM	#14
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 21,326	Originally Posted by Robin I knew she was autistic, I am autistic too. It is not really what I would call a mental illness. Neuroatypical is the preferred tern now. However Dolt neither understands this nor cares, is an AGW denying cretin, wants to stir up believers and is employed by Murdoch.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

2nd August 2019, 06:36 AM	#15
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 21,326	Originally Posted by Puppycow Maybe we can stop right there? So this Andrew Bolt fellow is some kind of religious nut who hates America. Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

2nd August 2019, 08:45 AM	#16
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,195	Originally Posted by catsmate Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell. I realized that I misinterpreted that bit. He meant "heathen" in the ironic sense, not the literal one. Like she is a kind of missionary going to convert the "heathens" to the religion of global warming. But that means that he sees it as on par with a religion, and not a valid scientific theory.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

2nd August 2019, 08:54 AM	#17
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,572	I don’t think there’s any justification for sneering at Greta thunberg. Now, sneering at a society that takes complex policy advice from children... yeah,, maybe so.
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,572

2nd August 2019, 09:00 AM	#18
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 7,131	How about sneering at a society that needs to take complex policy advice from children?

2nd August 2019, 09:02 AM	#19
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 29,949	Originally Posted by Giz Now, sneering at a society that ~~takes~~ needs complex policy advice from children... yeah,, maybe so. FTFY. Dave ETA: Ninja'd.
	__________________ Inspiring discussion of Sharknado is not a good sign for the audience expectations of your new high-concept SF movie sequel. - Myriad

2nd August 2019, 09:10 AM	#20
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,572	Originally Posted by Matthew Best How about sneering at a society that needs to take complex policy advice from children? Of course.
Giz Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 8,572

2nd August 2019, 09:27 AM	#21
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 19,797	Hogg has faded, need a new pawn
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

2nd August 2019, 09:37 AM	#22
Chris_Halkides Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,524	blind squirrels and all Originally Posted by catsmate Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell. The safety of the conviction of Cardinal Pell is a subject about which reasonable minds may disagree, for about seven pages in the Trials and Errors section. Therefore, I do not accept the proposition that Bolt is a nut on the basis of his position on this one issue.
	__________________ “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.” – Winston Churchill

2nd August 2019, 12:39 PM	#23
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 3,317	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress My favorite Greta picture: https://i.imgur.com/qgK26Iy.jpg She's 16 years old, btw. She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously.

2nd August 2019, 01:35 PM	#24
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 21,521	Originally Posted by catsmate Dolt claims not to be an xian; however he's a vehement defender of convicted child molester Pell. Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides The safety of the conviction of Cardinal Pell is a subject about which reasonable minds may disagree, for about seven pages in the Trials and Errors section. Therefore, I do not accept the proposition that Bolt is a nut on the basis of his position on this one issue. Regardless of his individual conviction, he certainly was instrumental in obstructing justice for victims of other priests which is enough to damn him in my eyes. Given the history of allegations against him, stretching back several decades, and the cases that were dropped for good reasons, it's pretty certain he was guilty anyway.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

2nd August 2019, 01:47 PM	#25
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 76,950	Greta replies: Quote: I am indeed ”deeply disturbed” about the fact that these hate and conspiracy campaigns are allowed to go on and on and on just because we children communicate and act on the science. Where are the adults? pic.twitter.com/xDSlN0VgtZ Greta Thunberg (@GretaThunberg) August 1, 2019 I find it fantastic that instead of saying she's deeply disturbed about global warming she went this intelligent route.
	__________________ That new avatar is cuteness overload. Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation. Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 2nd August 2019 at 01:50 PM.

2nd August 2019, 02:14 PM	#26
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 17,675	Originally Posted by Venom She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously. Indeed she looks like 12, but if she weren't taken seriously in a way, none of us would have ever heard about her. She had an audience with the pope and spoke at several parliaments (EU, France, UK?). I think the question in the thread title is a false dichotomy. She can be both a brave campaigner and deeply disturbed at the same time. What is obvious is that she is useful to powerful people. And the person who created that useful product is her father (her mother has written an interesting book). What we see in her follower's faces in the picture is what she explicitly demands: panic. And we old navigators of the galaxy know that rule one for success is not to panic. I feel very ambivalent about this phenomenon.
	__________________ Audiatur et altera pars

2nd August 2019, 03:53 PM	#27
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 39,518	Dude I've never heard of calls out other dude I've never heard of. Somehow this is important. Whatever. I have a policy of not taking children seriously on any issue. Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority.

2nd August 2019, 03:53 PM	#28
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,671	Originally Posted by Venom She looks around 12, which I can relate to, and part of the reason she's even more not taken seriously. She does have a baby face. No doubt some people find it incredibly infuriating to be lectured by a "little kid", a little girl even, even-though she's actually 16 years old. Of course many people would need to assert their vulnerable egos from such a bruising by, as is customary, attacking her appearance or assailing her on other superficial grounds. That's why much of the criticism very quickly takes such a vicious and very personal tone. Often you'd get the impression that they are more interested in bashing her than what she actually says.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

2nd August 2019, 03:57 PM	#29
Pterodactyl Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,184	Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not? Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable.

2nd August 2019, 03:58 PM	#30
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,671	Originally Posted by theprestige Unless this Thunberg person is some kind of world renowned precocious polymath, who cares what she thinks or says? For sure if it has any real value, we can find a mature and experienced adult with the expertise to make the same argument from actual authority. When 99% of scientists working on climate science aren't persuasive enough to convince climate change deniers that they are wrong I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter who says what.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

2nd August 2019, 04:01 PM	#31
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 39,518	Originally Posted by Pterodactyl Does she have some insight into climate change that contemporary climate scientists do not? Being 12 and autistic doesn't sound that remarkable. Didn't you see The Predator? Autism is the next stage of human evolution. It's literally a superpower. She's basically a real life X-men. Merely human scientists, for all their decades of mature experience and professional expertise, don't hold a candle to her magical autism.

2nd August 2019, 04:02 PM	#32
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 17,675	I wouldn't worry too much, Arcade22. There's already panic in your face over the Russian hoax, so you are fitting right in without believing in St, Greta,
	__________________ Audiatur et altera pars

2nd August 2019, 04:03 PM	#33
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 39,518	Originally Posted by Arcade22 When 99% of scientists working on climate science aren't persuasive enough to convince climate change deniers that they are wrong I think it's safe to say that it doesn't matter who says what. I wholeheartedly agree. So what's the point of Thunberg-as-poster-child?

2nd August 2019, 04:06 PM	#35
Pterodactyl Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,184	Originally Posted by theprestige Didn't you see The Predator? Autism is the next stage of human evolution. It's literally a superpower. She's basically a real life X-men. Merely human scientists, for all their decades of mature experience and professional expertise, don't hold a candle to her magical autism. I... did not see the version of predator you're talking about. Saw one with Schwarzenegger and Jesse the Body. Then vaguely remember another with Danny Glover. Don't remember any autistics unless you count that anti-social Native American dude who slashes his chest open with a knife for no other reason than to look like a badass. If it bleeds, it can die.

2nd August 2019, 04:07 PM	#36
Pterodactyl Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,184	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress She's 16. Oh never mind. I think she's a great spokesperson then.