Today's Mass Shooting

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How could it possibly be that short?

The cops were there and shot him right away. As for shooting that much in 30 seconds that is the point of such weapons. Pretty basic, he chose a target rich environment but one that had a few too many cops for a real high body count. And unlike at schools or the concealed carry people in walmart the cops here shot him.
 
How could it possibly be that short?
I am skeptical that it was that short but it was widely reported as that.

There is a video of him running (not shooting) before he is shown being shot dead. So a portion of that 30 seconds would have to include some time running and not shooting.

I doubt that the 30 seconds time frame is accurate. It even sound like an estimation being exactly "30 seconds".
 
The cops were there and shot him right away. As for shooting that much in 30 seconds that is the point of such weapons. Pretty basic, he chose a target rich environment but one that had a few too many cops for a real high body count. And unlike at schools or the concealed carry people in walmart the cops here shot him.
I consider the claim of 30 seconds to be an extraordinary claim.
 
It's reported that he wore a mask. So his idea was to kill a bunch of people and then run away and nobody would know who it was?
 
Here's a less-blurry image of the kind of drum-magazine the Daytona shooter was using with his weapon. Look at this damn thing.

[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBJuZAGWsAciB5u.jpg[/qimg]

Some absolute penis is selling these things while saying "self-defense!" with a wink and a grin, like the makers of all these kinds of mods do.
I don't recall any previous mass shooter using this magazine. We don't know how many have been sold but obviously they aren't popular for mass killings. All the buyers (except this guy) must be using them for some purpose other than killing lots of people.

I can imagine many people buying them for self defense because they imagine a heavily armed attacker or numerous attackers. There are people who think a day will come when large gun battles happen. It seems to be something that would appeal to some paranoid gun freaks.
 
I don't recall any previous mass shooter using this magazine. We don't know how many have been sold but obviously they aren't popular for mass killings. All the buyers (except this guy) must be using them for some purpose other than killing lots of people.

I can imagine many people buying them for self defense because they imagine a heavily armed attacker or numerous attackers. There are people who think a day will come when large gun battles happen. It seems to be something that would appeal to some paranoid gun freaks.

aurora theater shooting

" He also fired a Smith & Wesson M&P15[17] semi-automatic rifle with a 100-round drum magazine, which eventually malfunctioned."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora,_Colorado_shooting
 
I didn't know about that one. Are there others?

Not sure, but of course they suck in general so I wouldn't be surprised at not seeing them used. Magazines are one of the harder things to get right in a firearm, it needs to have enough spring pressure to advance the last bullet in the cycle time of the weapon and not too much for the first one out. So such large magazines are often not reliable.

If you were planning a mass shooting wouldn't reliable be desired?
 
I don't recall any previous mass shooter using this magazine. We don't know how many have been sold but obviously they aren't popular for mass killings. All the buyers (except this guy) must be using them for some purpose other than killing lots of people.

I can imagine many people buying them for self defense because they imagine a heavily armed attacker or numerous attackers. There are people who think a day will come when large gun battles happen. It seems to be something that would appeal to some paranoid gun freaks.

It's a Beta-C mag and it's been around for years.

The Aurora shooter used one:

https://kdvr.com/2014/02/12/herpin-a-good-thing-that-james-holmes-had-100-round-magazine/

It's an expensive paperweight..
 
I don't recall any previous mass shooter using this magazine. We don't know how many have been sold but obviously they aren't popular for mass killings. All the buyers (except this guy) must be using them for some purpose other than killing lots of people.

I can imagine many people buying them for self defense because they imagine a heavily armed attacker or numerous attackers. There are people who think a day will come when large gun battles happen. It seems to be something that would appeal to some paranoid gun freaks.

Its mostly just because they're "kewl", honestly. Those kind of drum magazines are fairly prone to jamming. So, serious shooters usually stick to 30 round mags and learn how to quickly reload.
 
So why aren't they part of the individual right to wage war on the state? That is what an individual right second amendment is for so why are we restricting it so much? Sure there are costs, with the first amendment you get nazis marching in the streets and the second you get them violently fighting the militia(standing armies being for oppressive monarchies and having not place in america).

If the second amendment is an individual right then it is about political violence and we need to accept these shootings as the side of effect of our constitutional rights.

People making the above argument - you.

It's not much of a rational argument.
 
People making the above argument - you.

It's not much of a rational argument.

Hey they just don't want to follow their logic to its clear conclusion. The second amendment was about the dispersal of miltary force, either to the individual or collected in militias. That is simply what it is. And all this individual rights yet they refuse to accept that as such it would require permitting the use of weapons for a proper insurgency. Not these BS handgun crap but serious insurgencies, we are certainly talking bombs and the like. But they think that is foolish and refuse the logical conclusion.

That is why turning the second amendment from a collective right to an individual one was kind of problematic, but fortunately those in favor of it are not overly bound by logic and thinking things through.
 
If you were planning a mass shooting wouldn't reliable be desired?
I guess so. But then it's hard for me to separate the whole thing from delusion and deep mental illness. The kind of mentality that is commonly associated with terrible decisions and ideas.

Unless you get away completely and without detection then you are essentially throwing away your whole life. Full escape of justice (and death) is rare for a mass shooter. The idea that your planned spree slaughter is worth spending your life in prison is something that immediately suggests mental illness.

It's a form of life suicide even if you survive the police response.
 
Hey they just don't want to follow their logic to its clear conclusion. The second amendment was about the dispersal of miltary force, either to the individual or collected in militias. That is simply what it is. And all this individual rights yet they refuse to accept that as such it would require permitting the use of weapons for a proper insurgency. Not these BS handgun crap but serious insurgencies, we are certainly talking bombs and the like. But they think that is foolish and refuse the logical conclusion.

That is why turning the second amendment from a collective right to an individual one was kind of problematic, but fortunately those in favor of it are not overly bound by logic and thinking things through.

Insurgent uses handgun, shoots trooper armed with a carbine, steals troopers gear, hands down handgun to the next guy in line and they do likewise.

At some point it isn't a carbine that gets liberated.

You also ignore the fact that explosive materials themselves are legal for civilian possession and use, where permitted.

If you have secondary high explosives and a detonator an IED is right around the corner.
 
Well 2nd amendment is about people having military power. In today terms that means full auto guns, tanks, fighter jets, even nukes. Yet people can't have any of those.
There are some people who actually fight for cancelling of National Firearms Act from 1934. And with 2nd amendment in place, it IMHO makes sense.
There are no laws banning any of the above except for the nukes. Full auto and destructive devises are legal but regulated; check out sites like www.subguns.com for legal sales.
 
The cops were there and shot him right away. As for shooting that much in 30 seconds that is the point of such weapons. Pretty basic, he chose a target rich environment but one that had a few too many cops for a real high body count. And unlike at schools or the concealed carry people in walmart the cops here shot him.


I consider the claim of 30 seconds to be an extraordinary claim.


I consider the nitpick of whether it is an extraordinary claim or not to be totally irrelevant and a distraction from the actual point. (I don't know if it is an intentional distraction or not.)

It was pretty close to thirty seconds. It was near enough to thirty seconds to not really matter how exactly thirty seconds it was.

It was damned quick.

Thirty seconds? Forty five seconds? Less than a minute?

Why do you think it really makes a difference?
 
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Trump Retweeted

Dan Scavino Jr.
@Scavino45
President @realDonaldTrump with the incredible medical staff at Miami Valley Hospital in Dayton, Ohio today. Some extremely powerful moments throughout the entire visit, with so much enthusiasm and love, contrary to what the Trump Hating Dems would ever share or say.

https://twitter.com/Scavino45/status/1159180442077032449

(Link includes pictures of Trump Grinning and 'thumbs upping'
 
Trump Tweets

Just left Dayton, Ohio, where I met with the Victims & families, Law Enforcement, Medical Staff & First Responders. It was a warm & wonderful visit. Tremendous enthusiasm & even Love. Then I saw failed Presidential Candidate (0%) Sherrod Brown & Mayor Whaley totally.....

....misrepresenting what took place inside of the hospital. Their news conference after I left for El Paso was a fraud. It bore no resemblance to what took place with those incredible people that I was so lucky to meet and spend time with. They were all amazing!o
 
Maybe it isn't really a skeptics forum after all.

Maybe aspects of marginal relevance are not that interesting.

The shooter managed to kill a lot of people in a short time before being shot himself.

If he had been limited to bolt-action weapons, or even an "automatic" (i.e. semiautomatic) pistol, he wouldn't have been able to before being killed himself.
 
No doubt he wanted to dress up all cool and edgy looking, like in the murder simulators the kids are playing these days

Yes, demonising computer games appears to be a popular distraction from gun control measures. Nice NRA talking point.
 
Well, no actually, one can only claim that if one is profoundly ignorant of the times and the English language.

The 2nd Amendment specifically mentions "Arms", which at the time would have meant weapons which would have been carried by the average infantry or cavalry soldier. What today we would call the "Basic Infantry Weapon". At the time, that referred to basic firearms such as muskets, rifles, blunderbusses, and carbines, as well as bladed weapons such as swords and bayonets (and technically also pikes and lances, although their use was already more or less obsolete by that time). In modern parlance, that would be select-fire rifles, carbines, and submachine guns such as the AR-15, AK-47, and FN-P90 platforms (to name the three most popular worldwide).

Explosives, cannon, and other larger weapons would not have been classified as "Arms", they would have been classified as "Ordnance"; and indeed still are today for the most part. Crew-served weapons, artillery, bombs, grenades, and so on are Ordnance, and therefore their ownership is not protected by the 2nd Amendment.

THough ownership of muzzleloading artillery is generally allowed under local law;i know I am half owner of a 12 Pound Napoleon in a Civil War reenactment group.
 
Yes, demonising computer games appears to be a popular distraction from gun control measures. Nice NRA talking point.

What is interesting is that the Bioshock series of games are First Person Shooters that have, if anything, a Left wing political viewpoint...…Bioshock infinite in particular.
And, yeah, the use of the term Murder Simulator, if meant seriously, is just playing in Donnie's hands.
Violent Entertainment has been popular from the days of Cavemen telling stories around the campfire up until now, and I suspect always will be.
 
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That was sarcasm, right?

Yeah, but seriously. If you are going to go on a killing spree you might as well dress up for the occasion, and a mask or face covering can give one a menacing appearance.

At the very least it seems highly unlikely that he wore a mask of some kind for the purpose of disguising his identity, considering how unlikely it would be for him to escape without being confronted and killed or at least arrested by the police (or a good guy with a gun).

Where are the wannabe heroes with guns when you need them?
 
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Yeah, but seriously. If you are going to go on a killing spree you might as well dress up for the occasion, and a mask or face covering can give one a menacing appearance.

At the very least it seems highly unlikely that he wore a mask of some kind for the purpose of disguising his identity, considering how unlikely it would be for him to escape without being confronted and killed or at least arrested by the police (or a good guy with a gun).

Where are the wannabe heroes with guns when you need them?


Trying not to get gunned down by the cops, I expect.

They get to the scene, see a civilian with a gun.

Reckon they'll ask him if he's a good guy before they eliminate the threat?
 
I don't know how much I agree with this, I'll have to read it a few more times and think on it, but it's an interesting idea that I haven't seen proposed yet.

The proposal is simple: Anyone purchasing a gun should be required to enlist for military reserve service, spanning the entire period of their gun ownership.

Under this proposal, being granted a handgun license would simultaneously and automatically register you to serve as a reservist in the Armed Forces branch of your choice — it's that simple. And it should be that simple ... because it's what the framers intended.

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/07/opinions/second-amendment-solution-to-gun-violence-yang/index.html
 
Trying not to get gunned down by the cops, I expect.

They get to the scene, see a civilian with a gun.

Reckon they'll ask him if he's a good guy before they eliminate the threat?


Years ago, some time in the 90s, I think, I was listening to talk radio and a listener called in to complain about the police overreacting to people carrying guns.
Host: "If you were a police officer, stopped someone for a traffic violation, and saw a handgun sitting on the seat next to them, how would you react?"
Caller: "I'd ask him if he had a permit for it."

I got a good laugh from that. The host thought he was full of it too.
 
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