Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps

I'm actually kind of surprised Iraq took him.

Sooner or later a country is going to have an issue with someone we're deporting to them.
 
carlitos said:
Thank you for posting that. I'm still pretty upset after reading it, and will refrain from commenting further.
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This kind of misery is a bit too much for me to enjoy the schadenfreude. The man is a Chaldean, a Catholic minority group from Iraq. Apparently these refugees were very much in favor of Trump in 2016. I guess they soured on him as they realized they wouldn't be exempt from his policies concerning undesirables. Many of them have been rounded up by ICE and deported since Trump's victory.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2017/0621/Why-Michigan-s-Iraqi-Christians-thought-Trump-would-spare-their-loved-ones
 
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Technically these are concentration camps, gathering people from all over for some reason other than legal prison.

It took on an odious connotation thanks to WWII, but it's repulsive to rely on that rhetorically.
 
Beerina said:
Technically these are concentration camps, gathering people from all over for some reason other than legal prison.

It took on an odious connotation thanks to WWII, but it's repulsive to rely on that rhetorically.
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Yea they are more like with the Boer war ones where unsanitary conditions killed high percentages of them, like the nazi ones too(the concentration camps not the death camps) like who Anne Frank wasn't really a victim of the holocaust as she died in a concentration camp from poor care not intentionally killed so its all good. And we were right to deny her asylum.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yea they are more like with the Boer war ones where unsanitary conditions killed high percentages of them, like the nazi ones too(the concentration camps not the death camps) like who Anne Frank wasn't really a victim of the holocaust as she died in a concentration camp from poor care not intentionally killed so its all good. And we were right to deny her asylum.
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Those who put the policies forward knew -and were counting on- deaths by exhaustion, disease, malnutrition, compromised immune systems, etc. It was quite intentional. I'll grant you that they made a good effort at plausible deniability, but that's not laudable, it's even more despicable.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Ice deports 41 year old man who has been in the US since he was 6 months old. He was deported to Iraq, a country he had never set foot in, as he was born into a refugee camp in Greece. He did not speak Arabic and was type 1 diabetic.

Totally unfamiliar with the country and language, he was made homeless and destitute overnight and died for lack of medicine for his diabetes.

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1159240161172938753
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The linked Buzzfeed Politico story indicates the man had a criminal history and had served time in prison for a home invasion. He was also suffering from mental health issues.

I'll go on record here with my view that deportation was not the proper remedy to his (il)legal status and criminal record, especially given his medical condition and mental health issues.

Having said that, I'm curious as how he was completely unable to obtain insulin in Iraq once the supply he had apparently been given when he was deported ran out. Perhaps the language barrier prevented him from making an income, thus making it more difficult to see doctors and hire translators.

Could his church have been able to help him? No idea, because I don't know if his church is allowed to have a visible presence in Iraq.



Sad as it is, I'm thinking this sort of situation might make for an interesting computer game along the lines of Papers, Please.
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
Those who put the policies forward knew -and were counting on- deaths by exhaustion, disease, malnutrition, compromised immune systems, etc. It was quite intentional. I'll grant you that they made a good effort at plausible deniability, but that's not laudable, it's even more despicable.
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But that has always been the norm in concentration camps.
 
Because rounding up 600+ people doesn't mean 600+ people did anything wrong.

Maybe only a dozen or so are actually undocumented. Maybe ICE wanted to shake them up and see if any would report on undocumented people they may know. Maybe management is in a protracted dispute over work conditions and pay and this is a really devious negotiating tactic.

A lot of posting I see, even (especially?) the people all fired up about it, seem to have automatically accepted the premise that everyone rounded up was unlawfully present. Just kinda blows my mind.

So, while I don't know why they are being released, I think the last line of the article is a good summary of why this happened at all:

Karla Vazquez-Elmore is a lawyer representing arrested workers. She said even those not arrested are terrified.
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Hey, remember back when I was "crazy" for predicting all the stuff that is currently happening would happen?




Pepperidge Farms remembers.
 
I haven't seen this discussed yet, but this ICE raid made no provisions at all for the kids of those arrested. Many were not picked up from school and day care or locked out of their homes or found wandering in the parking lot looking for their parents. ICE just left it for neighbors and even strangers to figure out what happened and take care of the kids.

It's also being reported that ICE didn't tell Trump about the raid because the last time they did that, he couldn't resist blabbing and ruining it.

Put those two things together and I smell Steven Miller.
 
Steven Miller. A malevolent malefactor who seems to me to be bits of Julius Streicher, Martin Bormann, Joseph Goebbels and Heinrich Himmler rolled into one.
 
WilliamSeger said:
It's also being reported that ICE didn't tell Trump about the raid because the last time they did that, he couldn't resist blabbing and ruining it.
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That's a recipe for disaster. Gods, I hate to godwin discussions, but it reminds me of stuff in murderous regimes, where underlings all do their own things to try to impress the leader. Said leader says stuff that they think is a signal to do X, and they act accordingly.
 
Belz... said:
That's a recipe for disaster. Gods, I hate to godwin discussions, but it reminds me of stuff in murderous regimes, where underlings all do their own things to try to impress the leader. Said leader says stuff that they think is a signal to do X, and they act accordingly.
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"Will no one rid me of these turbulent immigrants?"
 
Had NPR on in the car. The host asked an ICE rep if he could confirm all children left in limbo from the Mississippi raids were reunited with their parents. The ICE rep responded "let me first say, as a father of six, it breaks my heart any time a child is negatively impacted by their parents' illegal behavior."

It was way too early for me to be so mad.
 
Travis said:
Hey, remember back when I was "crazy" for predicting all the stuff that is currently happening would happen?




Pepperidge Farms remembers.
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You also predicted a ton of stuff that isn't happening. Hell, you even got stuff that already happened spectacularly wrong. Why would a few correct hits be memorable amid all the misses?
 
Watch the children of immigrants in this short Youtube clip from MSNBC (4:10-8:50):

 
Delphic Oracle said:
Had NPR on in the car. The host asked an ICE rep if he could confirm all children left in limbo from the Mississippi raids were reunited with their parents. The ICE rep responded "let me first say, as a father of six, it breaks my heart any time a child is negatively impacted by their parents' illegal behavior."

It was way too early for me to be so mad.
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Do you think the parents are blameless or was he simply wrong for saying it out loud? What would you expect a cop to say? It's all about the law for LEO.

What was the rest of his response to the question?

Aren't the parents responsible for being in this situation? Do people think they all ran from certain death in their own countries? Are we to believe they are all refugees? That is naive. They knew they could be apprehended and came illegally anyways. How do we know some aren't criminals back home, and which ones?

That's just one problem with how we are handling the border - we don't know anything about many of them.

The parents do share in this responsibility. In fact, who else should we blame?

Everyone is being negatively impacted - illegals and citizens - by our unwillingness to be consistent with our own border and laws. That makes me mad. They are becoming more emboldened - throwing rocks and attacking border patrol. Somehow these people seem to have the impression that they can get away with it, that they are entitled to be here.

I wonder what gave them that attitude?

It is that attitude that is responsible for the huge waves of people coming, and it is this incredible number of people that are causing the problems at the detention centers.

They are coming because they know they can get in and that our border is a mess. Change that and solve the problems.
 
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mgidm86 said:
Do you think the parents are blameless blah blah blah...
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Like the separation policy, this operation appears to have been designed to inflict suffering on the children. Whatever punishment you want to inflict on the parents, there is no excusable reason for this child abuse.
 
mgidm86 said:
Do you think the parents are blameless or was he simply wrong for saying it out loud? What would you expect a cop to say? It's all about the law for LEO.
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I don't know if any specific one of them were blameless any more than you know if any single one of them was guilty.

What was the rest of his response to the question?
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No idea, his ego defense mechanism was so infuriating I changed the station.

Aren't the parents responsible for being in this situation? Do people think they all ran from certain death in their own countries? Are we to believe they are all refugees? That is naive. They knew they could be apprehended and came illegally anyways. How do we know some aren't criminals back home, and which ones?
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I love how you start off asking questions, then presume that I've answered them all in the affirmative so you can berate me for it.

That's just one problem with how we are handling the border - we don't know anything about many of them.

The parents do share in this responsibility. In fact, who else should we blame?
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This didn't happen "on a border."
Everyone is being negatively impacted - illegals and citizens - by our unwillingness to be consistent with our own border and laws. That makes me mad. They are becoming more emboldened - throwing rocks and attacking border patrol. Somehow these people seem to have the impression that they can get away with it, that they are entitled to be here.
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Right, we the good citizens are the real victims here. Some kids threw rocks, so obviously every brown person sucks.

Oh, you used the "entitlement" thing, right. Entitled. Unlike us citizens.

Excuse me while I choke.

Also, again, this wasn't a border issue.
I wonder what gave them that attitude?
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I wonder what gives you the right accuse others of having ill character, then turn around and demand an explanation for why.

It is that attitude that is responsible for the huge waves of people coming, and it is this incredible number of people that are causing the problems at the detention centers.
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Right, tens of thousands of people suddenly all caught a case of highly contagious entitlement. Are you serious with this ******

Also, again, this issue had nothing to do with border detention centers.
They are coming because they know they can get in and that our border is a mess. Change that and solve the problems.
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You sure do know a lot about people you've never met.

Just in case you weren't aware by this point: this operation was not about border enforcement.
ETA: if you don't like broken up quoting, next time don't JAQ off with a parade of gish gallop.
 
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WilliamSeger said:
there is no excusable reason for this child abuse.
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I agree. Trekking a child through the Sonora desert is child abuse and if I did the same thing I'd be arrested for child endangerment and separated from my child. I don't expect my government to give special privilege to foreign people.
 
Baylor said:
I agree. Trekking a child through the Sonora desert is child abuse and if I did the same thing I'd be arrested for child endangerment and separated from my child. I don't expect my government to give special privilege to foreign people.
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:bigclap
 
wareyin said:
Well said, but some people let facts wash over them like water off a duck's back. With similar residual effects.
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Too true.

I'll also let slip: I kinda started to not like the ICE guy when he mentioned having 6 children. Because at that point I'm already going "do we even live on the same ******* planet?!"
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I don't know if any specific one of them were blameless any more than you know if any single one of them was guilty.



No idea, his ego defense mechanism was so infuriating I changed the station.



I love how you start off asking questions, then presume that I've answered them all in the affirmative so you can berate me for it.



This didn't happen "on a border."


Right, we the good citizens are the real victims here. Some kids threw rocks, so obviously every brown person sucks.

Oh, you used the "entitlement" thing, right. Entitled. Unlike us citizens.

Excuse me while I choke.

Also, again, this wasn't a border issue.


I wonder what gives you the right accuse others of having ill character, then turn around and demand an explanation for why.



Right, tens of thousands of people suddenly all caught a case of highly contagious entitlement. Are you serious with this ******

Also, again, this issue had nothing to do with border detention centers.


You sure do know a lot about people you've never met.

Just in case you weren't aware by this point: this operation was not about border enforcement.
ETA: if you don't like broken up quoting, next time don't JAQ off with a parade of gish gallop.
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You are being unreasonable
 
Baylor said:
child trafficker, smuggler, someone who paid $80 for a child, etc.
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Oh wow, then we must be prosecuting like, a ton of trafficking cases against the perpetrators, right? And then we're reuniting the kids with their parents or nearest relative, right?
 
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