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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew Bolt , autism , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

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Old 18th August 2019, 12:41 AM   #361
ThatGuy11200
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As I said, this is less of a deal than her December portion. This summit literally has a youth summit (which she is too young for)?

Because important things have youth summits. Remember how important that youth summit was in planning operation overlord?
So climate change isn't important because there's a youth summit for it? What a ridiculous mindset to have.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The articles aren't about them. It is pages of Malena hammering home the climate change message.

Malena and Svante (named after Svante Arnnehius, not Svante Sture) are archetypal proud parents living vicariously through their daughter/s.

Good luck to them but let's not pretend Greta is any random schoolgirl.
Your issues with Greta are really petty.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That's well and good but she's not the first by a long chalk.
Very few of us are the first to do something. That doesn't mean what we do isn't worthwhile.
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Old 18th August 2019, 05:21 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
So climate change isn't important because there's a youth summit for it? What a ridiculous mindset to have.
I'm not disparaging climate change. I'm disparaging this summit as a waste to tackle the issue.
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Old 18th August 2019, 05:39 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm not disparaging climate change. I'm disparaging this summit as a waste to tackle the issue.

Then you should be very appreciative that Thunberg is not contributing to it!

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why is she going? She has nothing to contribute.

If you object to Thunberg not contributing to a waste of time event, why not just crank up your AC and drive some unnecessary miles and take a spontaneous weekend plane trip with last-minute bargain airfare? That'll offset the carbon emissions Thunberg isn't causing by traveling by train and sailboat. Everything in your world will be back in balance.
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:06 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The articles aren't about them. It is pages of Malena hammering home the climate change message.
You mean, in the articles you've read, Malena Ehrnman chooses to devote her time to talk about climate change? The horror.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Malena and Svante (named after Svante Arnnehius, not Svante Sture) are archetypal proud parents living vicariously through their daughter/s.
Prove it.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Good luck to them but let's not pretend Greta is any random schoolgirl.
Who said she was a random schoolgirl? What the hell are you on about?
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:06 AM   #365
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Red face

Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Then you should be very appreciative that Thunberg is not contributing to it!




If you object to Thunberg not contributing to a waste of time event, why not just crank up your AC and drive some unnecessary miles and take a spontaneous weekend plane trip with last-minute bargain airfare? That'll offset the carbon emissions Thunberg isn't causing by traveling by train and sailboat. Everything in your world will be back in balance.
As I said in a separate post, my criticism is to her December leg of the trip which does look like a more effective meeting, but I could be wrong about that.

It is a two pronged complaint. One portion about the first event, and another about her second trip.
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:07 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That's well and good but she's not the first by a long chalk.
Nope, but right now, she's the best at it.

Deal with it.
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:28 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nope, but right now, she's the best at it.

Deal with it.
I would bet trump above her by Streisand effect alone.
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:43 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I would bet trump above her by Streisand effect alone.

Well, I'll grant you that Trump might end up being very effective at reducing carbon emissions and thus minimizing climate change, by causing trade wars and global recession, which he seems to be trying very hard to do.

If it plays out a little differently, though, the U.S. economy will tank while Russia's and China's boom, leaving the atmosphere and environment worse off than before.

So, we'll see who has more success in the end.
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Old 18th August 2019, 07:37 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Well, I'll grant you that Trump might end up being very effective at reducing carbon emissions and thus minimizing climate change, by causing trade wars and global recession, which he seems to be trying very hard to do.

If it plays out a little differently, though, the U.S. economy will tank while Russia's and China's boom, leaving the atmosphere and environment worse off than before.

So, we'll see who has more success in the end.
Maybe Greta should be investing her time and effort educating Russian and Chinese schoolchildren.
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Old 18th August 2019, 07:47 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe Greta should be investing her time and effort educating Russian and Chinese schoolchildren.
Schoolchildren in Russia or China have little chance of influence. Schoolchildren in the West do have a chance of influence, by actually affecting public opinion. I would have thought you'd have been well aware of that.
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Old 18th August 2019, 07:58 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe Greta should be investing her time and effort educating Russian and Chinese schoolchildren.
Or teaching actual science in fundie states in the USA.
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Old 18th August 2019, 08:10 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
<snip>
I have no opinion about that.
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Old 18th August 2019, 08:23 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Schoolchildren in Russia or China have little chance of influence. Schoolchildren in the West do have a chance of influence, by actually affecting public opinion. I would have thought you'd have been well aware of that.
As contentious as the issue is in the US, and as much hype as the American controversies get, the US is already doing a lot to reduce emissions. But none of it matters if Russia and China don't get on on board.

Changing public opinion in the US isn't going to help with that. Thunberg is picking whatever low-hanging fruit is left in the west. She's going to places where she has no language barrier, where she can move and speak freely, and where there is already a large mass of public opinion on her side. Campaigner? Yes. Brave? I mean, sailing a boat across the Atlantic is pretty brave, I guess.
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Old 18th August 2019, 08:47 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As contentious as the issue is in the US, and as much hype as the American controversies get, the US is already doing a lot to reduce emissions. But none of it matters if Russia and China don't get on on board.

Changing public opinion in the US isn't going to help with that. Thunberg is picking whatever low-hanging fruit is left in the west. She's going to places where she has no language barrier, where she can move and speak freely, and where there is already a large mass of public opinion on her side. Campaigner? Yes. Brave? I mean, sailing a boat across the Atlantic is pretty brave, I guess.
The US emits nearly twice the CO[sub]2[/SUB] per capita of Germany, which doesn't have a noticeably poor standard of living, whilst India has about a tenth of the US.

It is pretty reasonable to ask the richest to show the way.
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Old 18th August 2019, 09:43 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The US emits nearly twice the CO[sub]2[/SUB] per capita of Germany, which doesn't have a noticeably poor standard of living, whilst India has about a tenth of the US.

It is pretty reasonable to ask the richest to show the way.
On the other hand, the US GDP is about 8x Germany's. 4x the population, 8x the economy, but only 2x the emissions per capita doesn't seem bad.

One interesting thing is that Germany spends less than the US on collective defense, both per capita and per GDP. It's effectively outsourcing some of its emissions to the US.
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Old 18th August 2019, 11:31 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, the US GDP is about 8x Germany's. 4x the population, 8x the economy, but only 2x the emissions per capita doesn't seem bad.
Yes it does. "4x the population" is irrelevant since the metric is per capita; and all the "8x the GDP" establishes is that America potentially has several times the economic resources and industrial wherewithal to tackle the emissions problem than Germany has available and yet manages to be twice as bad at it.
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Old 18th August 2019, 12:55 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, the US GDP is about 8x Germany's. 4x the population, 8x the economy, but only 2x the emissions per capita doesn't seem bad.

One interesting thing is that Germany spends less than the US on collective defense, both per capita and per GDP. It's effectively outsourcing some of its emissions to the US.
You should read your posts before pressing submit.

Oh, I’m assuming you know what “per capita” means. Maybe not.

This is a post a schoolchild should be embarrassed about.
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Old 18th August 2019, 12:56 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, the US GDP is about 8x Germany's. 4x the population, 8x the economy, but only 2x the emissions per capita doesn't seem bad.

One interesting thing is that Germany spends less than the US on collective defense, both per capita and per GDP. It's effectively outsourcing some of its emissions to the US.
Wow. None so blind....
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Old 18th August 2019, 01:45 PM   #379
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So now the criticism of Thunberg is that China and Russia are bad?

Are we scraping the barrel to find things to throw at her?
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Old 18th August 2019, 05:32 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
So now the criticism of Thunberg is that China and Russia are bad?

Are we scraping the barrel to find things to throw at her?
I'm surprised no one has had a go at her for the fact that 2 boat crew members have to be flown, FLOWN , out to the US to help sail the boat back to EU.

And this being ISF, then quibble for 3 pages about the actual carbon footprint reduction measures they funded to compensate for the flight.
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Old 18th August 2019, 07:12 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
So now the criticism of Thunberg is that China and Russia are bad?

Are we scraping the barrel to find things to throw at her?
I don't know that it's criticism of Thunberg per se. More a critique of those who find it necessary to hype her campaign as something "brave" or even significant.
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Old 18th August 2019, 11:38 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't know that it's criticism of Thunberg per se. More a critique of those who find it necessary to hype her campaign as something "brave" or even significant.
Significant: sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy

It is significant, as we've seen from both the media attention and the actions taken by other school kids.
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:32 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't know that it's criticism of Thunberg per se. More a critique of those who find it necessary to hype her campaign as something "brave" or even significant.
It would be a very weird critique then.
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:41 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear, and what are they supposed to do, hide in a corner and cry because little Johnny called them a 'hater'?
Assess their statements, actions and beliefs and reconsider them Perhaps
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:43 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So as far as you are concerned anyone who doesn't wholly support the mission statement of Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion are 'haters'.
Lie #1

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yet they may have come to their views equally as scientifically as Greta and her parents.
Yes, so what? Of course denying teh reality of human caused climate change is utterly unscientific...

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A more moderate view is to concur we should cut down on our carbon footprint and stop plastic and micro-particle pollution but are not convinced that schoolchildren going on strike or hurray Henry's blocking the roads to stop people going to work or visiting dying parents in hospital is so absolutely essential and urgent that anyone who doesn't fully back these activities is a 'hater'.
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:44 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Her dad is with her so it's not much different from a parent taking their kid along with them for the ride. To see the news reports one could be forgiven for thinking she was a lone traveller, aside from the crew. There are also two cameramen so I expect there'll be some lucrative commercial vlogging to pay their fees and for the charter of the yacht.
Will you be providmg some evidence for this claim?
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:47 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Also, why are you still so determined to deprive Greta Thunberg of any agency? Are you jealous that she's doing more at her age than you've managed to do during your whole life, so it just has to be her parents?
Ah, now that's an interesting question and one that, I believe, is linked to the psychological need to bolster one's ego in the face of apathy towards huge problems.
Similar to the Kennedy Assassination conspiracy nuts who need to deny the agency of Oswald because it makes nonsense of their own use of "we're powerless and can do nothing" to avoid doing anything to batter the world.
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:48 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
There's something perversely comical about adults literally resorting to schoolyard style bullying against a teenage youth.
It really shows the entrenched immaturity doesn't it?
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:50 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Well, that might be a believable excuse, if you had some sort of track record of being consistently opposed to people being places where they weren't really contributing. That's something that happens pretty often, for instance with sports spectators, protestors, bloggers and other amateur journalists, tourists, non-presenting conference attendees, sightseers and so forth.

But you've singled out Thunberg on that basis. Curious, and not really plausible. I think my original assessment still stands up pretty well.
The rightists are determined to hound Thunberg; she scares them.
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:55 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If you look up the Thunbergs on Google you will will see Greta is backed by profit making organisations hoping to cash in on the green economy.
Let's see your evidence for this claim. Go on, just once actually provide facts to support your assertions...

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
All this gumpf that no-one is allowed to dare say a sceptical word because Greta is a 'sixteen-year-old child with autism' is a logical fallacy.
Ah dear jeebus.. Talking of logical fallacies let me introduce you to the Strawman Argument.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Greta is sincere but her parents and the big corporations pushing her forward are rubbing their hands in glee and can hear the kerching sounds the more PR she gets.
You keep claiming this, but never provide any evidence for it.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am sorry if an obvious truth is too hard for you to bear but I am not going to act as though Greta is some kind of messiah.
Where's the evidence for your claims?
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Old 19th August 2019, 01:58 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He and his wife are ardent 'green' activists, are they not? Because of their social status they have had reams of articles in Dagens Nyheter, have they not?
Is there any actual point buries is this morass? I've had several pieces published in the Irish Times, what of it.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So why doesn't Greta and her parents all pose together? I'll tell you why, because the carefully constructed image of 'Greta the lone warrior' is a great media magnet.
And if they did you (and your ilk) would be commentling adversely about the staged 'happy family' pictures.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Rather like the secretly married pop stars of yesteryear had to pretend they were single so as not to put the fans off and ruin their earning power.
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Old 19th August 2019, 02:00 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
He's just hungry for the attention.

Why doesn't he stay in the background?

Why did he keep her mother out of the picture?
Exactly. The nutters will. spew either way.
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Old 19th August 2019, 02:01 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Indeed. They are terrified the millennials and younger generations will listen and call older generations to account. Itís the last hope of human survival on the planet I believe, as older generations, including mine (baby boomers) are collectively doing **** all.
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Old 19th August 2019, 07:26 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
Significant: sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention; noteworthy



It is significant, as we've seen from both the media attention and the actions taken by other school kids.
What significant changes to global climate change have been accomplished by her students?
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Old 19th August 2019, 07:27 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
It would be a very weird critique then.
It's a very weird topic. It shouldn't be, but it is. And don't blame me. It was like this when I got here.

Last edited by theprestige; 19th August 2019 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 19th August 2019, 08:36 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Indeed. They are terrified the millennials and younger generations will listen and call older generations to account. Itís the last hope of human survival on the planet I believe, as older generations, including mine (baby boomers) are collectively doing **** all.
Better get started on that Mars colony, then.

More seriously, I think you're being too hard on your generation. At least in the "west", the last couple of generations have actually done a pretty good job of reducing emissions. They weren't doing it to fight "global climate change", but the principles and the results are essentially the same: Increase efficiency, reduce pollution. Your "older generations" have been pretty successful with this program, and continue to improve upon it.

If it weren't for the spectre of global climate change, this would be more than sufficient. Keep improving efficiency and cutting back on pollution. Even the developing nations will follow the same evolution, as they develop and improve their industrial base over time.

Anyway, you're not the one that needs a lecture from Thunberg's generation. They're giving you one, because they're children and they don't know any better. The real question is, what's your excuse for putting up with it?
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Old 19th August 2019, 10:36 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What significant changes to global climate change have been accomplished by her students?
Did I say there had been? No.

The fact that her movement is significant enough to warrant media attention and student/pupil action is evident. Attempting to change the parameters of what 'significance' means in this context is simply dishonest.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Better get started on that Mars colony, then.

More seriously, I think you're being too hard on your generation. At least in the "west", the last couple of generations have actually done a pretty good job of reducing emissions. They weren't doing it to fight "global climate change", but the principles and the results are essentially the same: Increase efficiency, reduce pollution. Your "older generations" have been pretty successful with this program, and continue to improve upon it.

If it weren't for the spectre of global climate change, this would be more than sufficient. Keep improving efficiency and cutting back on pollution. Even the developing nations will follow the same evolution, as they develop and improve their industrial base over time.

Anyway, you're not the one that needs a lecture from Thunberg's generation. They're giving you one, because they're children and they don't know any better. The real question is, what's your excuse for putting up with it?
"...putting up with it?" As if hearing something you already know to be true is somehow a bad thing.
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Old 19th August 2019, 10:49 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
"...putting up with it?" As if hearing something you already know to be true is somehow a bad thing.
I'm pretty sure that being lectured on something you already believe in and practice is generally considered to be intolerable.
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Old 19th August 2019, 12:09 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, the US GDP is about 8x Germany's. 4x the population, 8x the economy, but only 2x the emissions per capita doesn't seem bad.

One interesting thing is that Germany spends less than the US on collective defense, both per capita and per GDP. It's effectively outsourcing some of its emissions to the US.
(source nb - all figures rounded up or down for easy math)

MeasureGermanyUSA...Multiple USA vs. Germany
Population (MM)803204x
GDP in Trillions4205x
Emissions (x1,000 metric tons)7305,0007x
Defense Spending ($B)5065013x

Looking at the above, the USA has 4 times the population of Germany, 5 times the GDP, 7 times the emissions and 13 times the defense spending.

Your hypothesis (one "interesting thing") was that we might explain some of the emissions per-capita difference by our defense spending covering some of Germany's security. Germany "outsources" some of their emissions and defense spending to the USA.

The absolute difference in Defense spending is 600 Billion, while the absolute difference in GDP is 16 Trillion. Unless defense spending has a carbon impact of around 30 times that of other kinds of spending, the (relatively) small difference in economic impact wouldn't appear to be large enough in absolute terms to explain such a variance in CO2 footprint between the two countries.

So, that's a provisional "no" from me on your hypothesis / interesting thing / "not so bad" emissions difference. If my reasoning isn't clear enough, let me know and I can do some graphs, but not right now.

Last edited by carlitos; 19th August 2019 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 19th August 2019, 12:31 PM   #400
theprestige
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
(source nb - all figures rounded up or down for easy math)

MeasureGermanyUSA...Multiple USA vs. Germany
Population (MM)803204x
GDP in Trillions4205x
Emissions (x1,000 metric tons)7305,0007x
Defense Spending ($B)5065013x

Looking at the above, the USA has 4 times the population of Germany, 5 times the GDP, 7 times the emissions and 13 times the defense spending.

Your hypothesis (one "interesting thing") was that we might explain some of the emissions per-capita difference by our defense spending covering some of Germany's security. Germany "outsources" some of their emissions and defense spending to the USA.

The absolute difference in Defense spending is 600 Billion, while the absolute difference in GDP is 16 Trillion. Unless defense spending has a carbon impact of around 30 times that of other kinds of spending, the (relatively) small difference in economic impact wouldn't appear to be large enough in absolute terms to explain such a variance in CO2 footprint between the two countries.

So, that's a provisional "no" from me on your hypothesis / interesting thing / "not so bad" emissions difference. If my reasoning isn't clear enough, let me know and I can do some graphs, but not right now.
You're good. Thanks for the details!
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