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Tags cold reading , mediums , psychics

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Old 25th August 2019, 11:12 AM   #161
JimOfAllTrades
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Are all atheists cynics? Is thinking about negative things a compulsory part of atheism?
No, people seem to think this. Atheists can and do appreciate beauty and wonder in the world, enjoy art and music, love and be loved, and be amazed about how cool a place the universe is.

But if you're trying to form a opinion about the rules that govern the universe, your explanations have to take into account everything for which there is evidence of occurring, not just the parts you like. The "karma" explanation sounds fair and like everyone is constantly "growing", until you have to account for 3-year-olds getting raped. If your view of the world ignores this because you find it distasteful then you're fooling yourself. And if you're fooling yourself about that, what else are you fooling yourself about?

So when you start talking about angels, spirits, and karma, we ask about the parts of the world you seem to be ignoring.
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Old 25th August 2019, 11:25 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
So, putting your head in the sand or hiding your eyes from others pain is - spiritual?
I don't claim to be spiritual. I just say there is no good can come, of obsessing about negative events in the world. Most of us do not experience terrible things every day, and watching the news is just taking negative things on board that rarely effect us directly. Most of us live normal lives, most of the time. So why clutter our minds with tragedies that happen far away?
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 25th August 2019, 11:45 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Here is a scientific study that shows something unexpected occurs in mediums brains.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...irit-mediums-0
I dunno, it's pretty much what I would expect if the mediums are essentially handing over control of their muscles from their conscious to their unconscious minds.
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Old 25th August 2019, 02:39 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Here is a scientific study that shows something unexpected occurs in mediums brains.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...irit-mediums-0
It would be more accurate if they reported 'A study that shows something unexpected occurs in trance-state minds.'

Until they can prove that any of the 'psychography' readings(?) were valid and pertinent to whichever relevant individuals they were meant for then the words 'spirit mediums' are superfluous. If the 'psychography' readings weren't meant for and validated by individuals then the whole thing becomes a farce.
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Old 25th August 2019, 03:11 PM   #165
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This might be an interesting read-

https://news.yale.edu/2016/09/27/psy...ices-psychosis
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Old 25th August 2019, 03:17 PM   #166
abaddon
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Are all atheists cynics? Is thinking about negative things a compulsory part of atheism?
Nope. You are getting cynicism because you are proposing your imaginings as reality. That is not how reality works. That is not how anything works.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I don't think about such things. In fact I look away from the television when charities show horrible pictures of deformed children in an effort to get money from people. My mind does not seem to have been as damaged by life as some of the people on this forum, in spite of having had mental illness for over fifty years.
What a stupid notion. If you close your eyes and ears reality ceases to exist. And you wonder why you get a cynical response?
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Old 25th August 2019, 08:37 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Here's a quick psychic reading for you, free of charge:

Someone who's posted on this thread:

Is worried about their finances.
Ooh! Ooh! That's me! You're amazing! How did you know that?
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Old 26th August 2019, 12:14 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Here we go again, why can't you look on the bright side?



I have not had an easy life, but I do not come up with all the negative stuff you do.



Also, I seem to recall it was a 12 year old girl last time you said this, not a three year old. You are just exaggerating now.
That you want to hide from the horrors of your beliefs is not something I'm willing to do. If other people come to believe as you do there would be no one bothered about a 3 year old being raped, they would like you do simply shrug their shoulders and think like you do that it was planned and neccessary. Indeed given your beliefs it is even worse than I said above as trying to prevent a 3 year old from being repeatedly raped would be wrong as you would be hindering her "evolution".

At least have the honesty to not try to deceive people about what your beliefs mean when you are making your claims.
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Old 26th August 2019, 01:27 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
This might be an interesting read-

https://news.yale.edu/2016/09/27/psy...ices-psychosis

So the voices in your head aren't really bad. They may even keep you company. What the voices tell you to do, however, is much more sinister.
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Old 26th August 2019, 02:12 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I don't claim to be spiritual. I just say there is no good can come, of obsessing about negative events in the world. Most of us do not experience terrible things every day, and watching the news is just taking negative things on board that rarely effect us directly. Most of us live normal lives, most of the time. So why clutter our minds with tragedies that happen far away?
So screw those starving Yemenis? Not much empathy in your belief system, is there?
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Old 26th August 2019, 02:57 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
So, putting your head in the sand or hiding your eyes from others pain is - spiritual?
And saves him money.
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Old 26th August 2019, 05:29 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I don't claim to be spiritual. I just say there is no good can come, of obsessing about negative events in the world. Most of us do not experience terrible things every day, and watching the news is just taking negative things on board that rarely effect us directly. Most of us live normal lives, most of the time. So why clutter our minds with tragedies that happen far away?
This has to be the most heartless thing I have seen uttered in awhile.

Amy,

To save you further questions about Scorpions beliefs let me give the cliff notes. He hates Muslims and believes the reason he was graced with a lottery win, and the great thing he did with the winnings, was to buy a computer so he could go all over the internet fighting their beliefs and trying to convince others how evil they are.

As to the original topic, I too believed in mediums and such before coming to this forum. I used to get readings at least once a year. I was convinced that they "knew" things that couldn't be known. The lucky thing for me was that this one that I went to taped all the readings. Once I went back and listened with a skeptical mind, it was amazing how off he was and how many hits were just generic.
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Old 26th August 2019, 05:45 AM   #173
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This reminds me of the attitude that was frequently expressed (sometimes by celebrity authors) during the “New Age” fad....
That it was pointless to try to assist the downtrodden as they were in the process of paying their “karmic debt”.
This heartless attitude is also one of the worst features of the Hindu caste system... As those who are suffering not only richly deserve their misfortune, but it’s actually beneficial for them in the long run.

How easily we rationalize things.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:08 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Here's a quick psychic reading for you, free of charge:
Axxman300's almost perfect cold reading!

Quote:
Is worried about their finances.
I was overcharged by a supermarket recently.

Quote:
Thinking about getting a new job even though it's a huge risk.
Nope. But I was pondering my life and career recently.

Quote:
Is missing a beloved pet.
Yes, but from 20 years ago.

Quote:
Has a family member who is ill.
They're all dead.

Quote:
Has minor car trouble that they've been putting off due to money, but it bothers them.
I haven't driven for many years and was pondering that fact recently.

Quote:
Just had a birthday.
I'm having one soon.

Quote:
Is shopping for someone else's birthday.
Bought a card for a friend.

Quote:
Has an upcoming doctor's appointment that they're nervous about.
I have just registered with a new GP.

Quote:
Is thinking about going back to school.
Was chatting online to a schoolmate recently.

Quote:
Has gone off their diet.
I am getting a tad fat.

Quote:
Is thinking about a large purchase which will upset their spouse/significant other.
I want a new graphics card but can't afford one.

Quote:
Didn't see the last Avengers movie.
I learnt to drive in a Hillman Avenger.

Quote:
Like's chocolate ice cream.
I bought some for a friend who is coming to stay.

People have so much in common, it's about casting a wide net.


Last edited by The Common Potato; 26th August 2019 at 07:10 AM. Reason: mangled Axxman300's name
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:20 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thank you so much everyone for your comments, how do you quote what people have said to reply to?
What if you were to pay by PayPal can they then retrieve your information?
Welshdean none were right lol, try again :-)

Let's see, here is my reading....

You live in Wales and often the weather is cold hahaha!
Yeah, but he thinks Wales is going to win the World Cup.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:29 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
Amy,

To save you further questions about Scorpions beliefs let me give the cliff notes. He hates Muslims and believes the reason he was graced with a lottery win, and the great thing he did with the winnings, was to buy a computer so he could go all over the internet fighting their beliefs and trying to convince others how evil they are.
Hatred of Islam on the other hand is easily justified, as is hatred of any obnoxious ideology. Muslims themselves are the main victims of Islam

Richard Dawkins
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:29 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Some mediums claim to be able to directly speak to spirits, and have a conversation with them.
Do those same spirits answer back? I regularly shout at my PC but it rarely replies.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:51 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Hatred of Islam on the other hand is easily justified, as is hatred of any obnoxious ideology. Muslims themselves are the main victims of Islam

Richard Dawkins
As distinct from noxious ideologies? Say one that thinks that twelve year olds experiencing abuse are "just karma"?
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Old 26th August 2019, 12:19 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I don't claim to be spiritual. I just say there is no good can come, of obsessing about negative events in the world. Most of us do not experience terrible things every day, and watching the news is just taking negative things on board that rarely effect us directly. Most of us live normal lives, most of the time. So why clutter our minds with tragedies that happen far away?
Tragedies that happen far away?

I had a baby that died a horrible death when she was less then an hour old. The man I loved died from suicide. Another close friend was murdered.

Far *********** away? How dare you. I guess they are all now getting their groove back and are partying in heaven and receiving their good karma.

This is so offensive from you.
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Old 26th August 2019, 03:43 PM   #180
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Anyone interested in how psychics use the Barnum effect, this article on the mentalist web site has the excellent video by Darren Brown of the experiment he performed showing how susceptible members of the public are to such frauds.

E.T.A. Oops - that's not the full video - I'll try to find it... Here it is - if you're allowed Channel 4 content.
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Old 26th August 2019, 04:51 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Do you think some mediums might have a mental illness as some claim to hear the dead.... is this delusional thinking? Hearing voices like a schizophrenic?
You are much too charitable. Isn't it more reasonable that they are merely frauds?
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Old 26th August 2019, 05:15 PM   #182
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I'm not sure who said this, but it seems appropriate: Anyone can talk to the dead. It's getting them to talk back that is the problem.
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Old 27th August 2019, 12:40 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
You are much too charitable. Isn't it more reasonable that they are merely frauds?
Perhaps I am. I have spoken to some in the past and they seem like nice, pleasant people. It just astounds me that they intentionally con people.

Why aren't authorities cracking down on stopping them trade/read?
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Old 27th August 2019, 12:45 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Perhaps I am. I have spoken to some in the past and they seem like nice, pleasant people. It just astounds me that they intentionally con people.
Being nice to people is how they run their con. They're like politicians. They're professionally pleasant.

Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Why aren't authorities cracking down on stopping them trade/read?
Because what they're doing is not technically illegal. As long as it is billed as "for entertainment purposes only", most jurisdictions can't touch them.
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Old 27th August 2019, 12:49 AM   #185
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Oh ok, so they have to state 'for entertainment purposes only'?
Do a lot of them go into mediumship school and learn how to con people? Do you think the mediums who know one another admit that it's fake and not real? Or do some generally believe they have some sort of power?
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Old 27th August 2019, 02:28 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Thanks Dave. This was her original email -
Does this sound like a prediction or just a general statement? Yes I am on Facebook but she doesn't know my full name.
Hi Amy ,*

One more thing . If I am connecting with a loved one who has past I ask them to give me some specific info so there is no doubt who is coming through . So if your mom. were in spirit and she wanted to come through she would need to give some kind of evidence that only you and her would know .

* * * * *Sincerely ,

* * * * * * * * * *Judith Anne*
It's ambiguous, and purposefully so. They are "if" statements, thus not commital. A person who has lost their mother might interpret it as a sign that the psychic knows something about them personally, while the person who has not will read it as a general statement, not something about themselves specifically. (You'd also think a person in the business of talking to the dead would know that it's "passed" not "past". The grammar is pretty low quality here.)
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Old 27th August 2019, 02:44 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Perhaps I am. I have spoken to some in the past and they seem like nice, pleasant people. It just astounds me that they intentionally con people.
That's why they are called "cons," because their business is fooling people for money. Some are very good at it.
Quote:
Why aren't authorities cracking down on stopping them trade/read?
They should criminally prosecute someone for telling you, "You will soon meet a tall, dark stranger"?

In some egregious cases, there have been prosecutions and convictions. Psychologists have said, however, that some people want to be fooled, and people who realize they have been duped are too ashamed to go to the authorities.
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Old 27th August 2019, 06:38 AM   #188
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Time was in Jolly Olde when "pretending to be an egyptian" was a transportable offense.

Damn hard luck for Australia, I must say.
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Last edited by sackett; 27th August 2019 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 27th August 2019, 06:49 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Time was in Jolly Olde when "preteding to be an egyptian" was a transportable offense.
Detectable, I presume, by the walk?
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Old 27th August 2019, 07:16 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Oh ok, so they have to state 'for entertainment purposes only'?
They aren't strictly required to. But if their customers get the law involved, it's very difficult to prove that a legally cognizable reliance was created if that disclaimer was made. By that legal jargon I mean that if they say they're only entertainers, then it becomes your fault that you throught they were serious.

Quote:
Do a lot of them go into mediumship school and learn how to con people?
Most of the techniques they use fall under the "mentalism" branch of magic, and there are lots of ways to learn magic. Since a certain degree of their professional success relies on keeping the techniques secret, a lot of the instruction is in the old-fashioned style of apprenticing with someone who teaches you personally. But any reasonably large magic store will have books on mentalism. And there's even a free e-book called Red Hot Cold Readings that I found a quick and cheap way to inform myself.

Quote:
Do you think the mediums who know one another admit that it's fake and not real? Or do some generally believe they have some sort of power?
I think there are two camps here. There are those who aim toward a sort of show-business presence, even if their practice is strictly one-on-one. These are generally the ones who are going to need the legal disclaimers. Among those types, the ones I know personally absolutely know they are just pretending. A few of this type do what's called "working strong," which is to advertise that one really does have a gift for mediation. But they still bury the disclaimers in the fine print, and their colleagues seem to have mixed feelings about how to treat them. In a certain sense many of these practitioners do genuinely have a gift, but the gift is merely well-rehearsed, well-developed talent at working the techniques.

The other camp seems to be well-meaning people who genuinely believe they have a gift and genuinely want to help people. I've known a fair number of this type personally. The morality of that is still sketchy to me, because you have people giving advice to others on what I would argue are factually false premises. But what it comes down to is that certain people are reaching out to certain other people for help and, for the most part, getting the help that's most beneficial to them. What it comes down to in a lot of the cases I've personally witnessed is that the information and advice given is objectively good and helpful. It's the kind of advice you'd get from professional social workers, counselors, etc. So if, "Your dead mother told me to tell you this," is the sugar that makes the medicine go down, then I should probably just step away and let that happen.
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Old 27th August 2019, 07:41 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Oh ok, so they have to state 'for entertainment purposes only'?
Do a lot of them go into mediumship school and learn how to con people? Do you think the mediums who know one another admit that it's fake and not real? Or do some generally believe they have some sort of power?
One of the best sources of information on how to run the psychic medium con is, unfortunately, the books written by psychic debunkers. Just as weapons intended for defense of the innocent can be used by the guilty instead, so to can information about criminal techniques intended as a warning, be used as a tutorial for the criminals themselves.

"Flim Flam" by James Randi is a good text on how fake mediums work.

Last edited by Pope130; 27th August 2019 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Randis' book.
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Old 27th August 2019, 09:39 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Tragedies that happen far away?

I had a baby that died a horrible death when she was less then an hour old. The man I loved died from suicide. Another close friend was murdered.

Far *********** away? How dare you. I guess they are all now getting their groove back and are partying in heaven and receiving their good karma.

This is so offensive from you.
I am sorry for your tragic losses.
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Old 27th August 2019, 11:51 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by AmyW View Post
Oh ok, so they have to state 'for entertainment purposes only'?
Do a lot of them go into mediumship school and learn how to con people? Do you think the mediums who know one another admit that it's fake and not real? Or do some generally believe they have some sort of power?
OK, two personal stories.

First, I am not psychic, nor do I believe in psychic powers.

However, once when I was a college student, I went to my girlfriend's sorority house to pick her up for a date. As usual, she wasn't ready, and I sat in the lobby waiting for her. This was back in the day before cell phones. One wall of the lobby had about six phone booths--not pay phones, they were free for local calls, but old-fashioned dial phones. While I sat and waited for my dream date, a girl I did not know was on one of the phones, and as she didn't bother closing the door, I could hear her side of the conversations. First, she talked to her boyfriend, trying to persuade him that if her parents called him to tell them he had accidentally backed her car up into a post and damaged it. Then she called her parents and told Mom that her boyfriend had been in a minor accident while driving her car--"A motorcycle hit him from behind when he was stopped at a red light."

My date finally showed up, we went out, all was good. A week or two later, I'm back there, waiting for her again, and the same girl was sort of pacing the floor nervously. She sat down and I said hi, she said hi, and I introduced myself as my date's boyfriend. Then I said, "I sense something's troubling you."

She asked "Are you psychic?"

I told her, "I get these flashes. You--you're feeling a little guilty about something. I'm seeing . . . a car. It's backing up and hitting something--a pole of some kind? And I see you getting out and looking at the damage. Wait, are your parents coming to check the car?"

She was flabbergasted. I was the most amazing psychic ever. I said, "I'm getting that you haven't told them the whole truth. Tell them what happened, and they'll forgive you. If you don't, they'll get really mad."

Next time I was in the dorm, my girlfriend told me a bunch of girls wanted to ask me questions. I told her I wasn't psychic and that it was a hot reading. "It can't be," she said. "You were so accurate, even described the damage and told her how much it would cost to fix." Nope. Hadn't done that. But I could have met umpteen girls if I had not been cursed with honesty.

Second time, many years later: I'm now teaching in college, doing a rhetoric unit on critical thinking. Trying to encourage my class to look for deception and trickery, I did an old magic routine called "one-ahead reading." My students handed me folded papers with questions on them. I would hold a paper without looking at it, recite the question, and make up some answer. They couldn't guess how I did it, until I showed them the trick.

Jeeze Louise. Before long, students were coming to me and asking for psychic readings. See, this is why psychics can easily fool people--a lot of the time the people fool themselves because they want to believe. I got so tired of explaining this that I eventually had a sign made for my office door: "No, I am not psychic. I knew you were going to ask."
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Old 27th August 2019, 02:35 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
3-year-olds, can be and have been raped. You do know this right?
Yes, but you're supposed to concentrate on the happy clappy stuff not raise difficult questions.
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Old 27th August 2019, 02:47 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I don't claim to be spiritual. I just say there is no good can come, of obsessing about negative events in the world. Most of us do not experience terrible things every day, and watching the news is just taking negative things on board that rarely effect us directly. Most of us live normal lives, most of the time. So why clutter our minds with tragedies that happen far away?
Those people who watch scenes of people suffering and dying in droughts, floods, earthquakes and hurricanes, who get off their butts and raise money for charities to help those people, who donate,who press their governments to do more for the effected or are motivated to devote themselves to seismology, meteorology, climate sciences, rescue services or join Doctors Sans Frontieres or similar organisations.

Just losers who shouldn't be so negative and stop cluttering their minds apparently. Your philosophy is morally bankrupt.
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Old 27th August 2019, 03:14 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
He was my friend and had no reason to lie to me. He not only talked to spirits ,he used to go into a trance and a Chinese man spoke through him, and I was able to speak to this apparent spirit.
Who translated?
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Old 27th August 2019, 05:26 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm not sure who said this, but it seems appropriate: Anyone can talk to the dead. It's getting them to talk back that is the problem.
Perhaps the Bard?

“Glendower: I can call the spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come, when you do call for them?”

― William Shakespeare, King Henry IV, Part 1
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Old 27th August 2019, 06:13 PM   #198
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You know...

I do wish I had the interpersonal confidence and public speaking ability of these mediums.

They know how to hide their embarrassment quite well in most circumstances.
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Old 27th August 2019, 08:18 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Humots View Post
Perhaps the Bard?

“Glendower: I can call the spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come, when you do call for them?”

― William Shakespeare, King Henry IV, Part 1
I suspect the Bard was paraphrased by Michael Shermer:
Quote:
Anyone can talk to the dead — it's getting the dead to talk back that's the hard part.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Spiritualism
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Old 28th August 2019, 05:55 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am sorry for your tragic losses.
You state you are sorry but being sorry would contradict your beliefs.
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