GOP ad says The Jews Are Coming To Take Us Over...

That's a very ….. interesting.....ad.

I live next door to the Orthodox neighborhood here in Detroit, inside the eruv. The thing is, they really do want to create religiously pure neighborhoods. The first time I ever heard about how the process worked was when I attended a party at the home of my wife's Hebrew teacher. I had never spent much time with the Orthodox. They described to me their plans. One of the things they intended was to have Othodox Jews move in to a neighborhood, and then wait until a house goes for sale. An Orthodox family then buys the house, and then waits until an Orthodox family wants to move in, and they sell it to the new Orthodox family. It skirts, just barely, the anti-discrimination laws because it's not like they are a business selling houses only to one preferred ethnic or religious group. It's just one family selling a house to another family, and by coincidence they are both Orthodox.

Going into that neighborhood on a Saturday morning really does feel like stepping into a different nation. It has been some time since I was there. We lost touch with our friends there when they moved, and my wife was no longer taking the Hebrew classes. The last time I was there was for a Bar Mitzvah. It was January, and it had snowed a lot the night before. After the ceremony, which was held in a basement synagogue, common in that neighborhood, we walked home in the street, because it had been plowed by the municipal plows, but no one was driving, and the sidewalks weren't shoveled.

In my opinion, there's no real harm in it, and yet I can't say I am really a fan of it. I'm not much of a fan of religious discrimination in housing, regardless of how it's brought about. There has to be an awful lot of blind eyes turned toward anti-discrimination laws in that neighborhood. I don't think goyim are welcome.

I looked up the story behind the headlines that were in the ad, the ones flashed near the end of that ad. It seems that the nearby town of Palm Tree, New York, was created when a Jewish neighborhood petitioned to secede from the town of Monroe, New York, and was successful, creating a pure town full of only Orthodox Jews. (I don't know if it's truly "only" Orthodox Jews, but I'm guessing that readers of this forum would have a strangely difficult time finding a house available for purchase in Palm Tree.)

So, the ad is way, way, over the top in its imagery, and yet, I don't think forum members would be very approving of what is actually going on in that neighborhood.
 
Birds of a feather. There will be pockets of ethnic groups in many cities. If they don't hurt anyone then that's their business. It is a bit rich to be saying that you don't want them to form a distinctive ethnic group, then say you have to protect your own distinct ethnic group. I would have thought the white guys would have been glad for the Skevers to isolate themselves away from the white folk. Maybe it's just because they aren't far away enough?
 
I'm fascinated by the antisemitic and non antisemitic factions of the hard right.
Even among white nationalists there are varying views of Israel and Jews.
 
Trebuchet said:
I'm a liberal and an atheist, and find it all too easy to be anti- these particular Semites. Religious extremists are a very bad thing.
The R's, of course, have taken exactly the wrong tack to try to do anything about it.
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The only problem I have with this is that creating a closed gene pool is going to have some very bad results in a few generations.
 
Meadmaker said:
In my opinion, there's no real harm in it, and yet I can't say I am really a fan of it. I'm not much of a fan of religious discrimination in housing, regardless of how it's brought about. There has to be an awful lot of blind eyes turned toward anti-discrimination laws in that neighborhood. I don't think goyim are welcome.

I looked up the story behind the headlines that were in the ad, the ones flashed near the end of that ad. It seems that the nearby town of Palm Tree, New York, was created when a Jewish neighborhood petitioned to secede from the town of Monroe, New York, and was successful, creating a pure town full of only Orthodox Jews. (I don't know if it's truly "only" Orthodox Jews, but I'm guessing that readers of this forum would have a strangely difficult time finding a house available for purchase in Palm Tree.)
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There was an episode of This American Life about something like this:

A Not-So-Simple Majority

Before the war in the East Ramapo, New York school district, there was a truce. Local school officials made a deal with their Hasidic and ultra-Orthodox Jewish neighbors: we'll leave you alone to teach your children in private yeshivas as you see fit as long as you allow our public school budget to pass. But the budget is funded by local property taxes, which everyone, including the local Hasidim, have to pay — even though their kids don't attend the schools that their money is paying for. What followed was one of the most volatile local political battles we've ever encountered. (4 1/2 minutes)
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So you can see the roots of the conflict here. The Hasidic Jews don't send their children to public schools, but they still have to pay property taxes to support those public schools because in America, public schools are primarily funded by local property taxes, not by state or national government. This is also why there is so much variation in the quality of public schools depending on the neighborhood in which you live. To me, it screams out that actually this is something that the Federal government should be funding, not local communities. But set that aside.

So you can sort of understand: they feel like they have to pay twice. Once for their own private schools which they send their own children too, and again for the public schools which they don't even use. Of course, that's short-sighted, but completely understandable given the selfishness of human nature.
 
Trebuchet said:
I'm a liberal and an atheist, and find it all too easy to be anti- these particular Semites. Religious extremists are a very bad thing.
The R's, of course, have taken exactly the wrong tack to try to do anything about it.
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Rockland County definitely has its share of Orthodox and Hasidic Jews. I grew up just over the Jersey state line and can remember being boggled the first time I drove through Monsey on a Saturday night--it was definitely like being in a foreign country.

I only have one modest anecdote to tell about an encounter with a few of them. Back in my high school days we were driving through Harriman Park one time and we saw three Orthodox men hitch-hiking. Well, we were always up for something different and so we gave them a ride.

They had been fishing (without much success) and one of them commented that they were worried what their fathers would do when they got home. I was surprised; these guys had full beards and looked to be in their early 20s. It turned out they were actually all around 16-17 years old; right about the same age as us, and doing the same thing--skipping school to go up to Harriman and have a good time. Of course the similarities ended there; I'm sure they refused our offer of a little weed.

The New Square pardons/commutations sucked, but then a lot of Bill Clinton's final pardons were eyebrow-raising.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I wonder if the same people think that all the amazing "Chinatowns" and "Little Indias" in all the major cities are a bad idea too.
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I don't know if it's a good idea or a bad idea. As I said, I don't see any real harm in having this Orthodox Jewish enclave in Detroit. And yet, it makes me uneasy. If I look at Dearborn, where the largest Arab Muslim neighborhood is found in the Detroit area, I see a mixed society with a Muslim majority, where over the last few decades immigrants have flocked to, giving it an ethnic feel, but where non-Muslims still live in large numbers. Within the square mile or so of the Orthodox neighborhood in Oak Park, it's virtually all Jewish, because that's the way they wanted it, and they've worked to create that ethnically pure area. I'm not sure what I would think if the Orthodox started expanding into my neighborhood. Right now, my neighborhood is heavily Jewish, but it's mostly Reform (like me) and Conservative. The Orthodox prefer to live with other Orthodox.


What I will say is that it's interesting to hear the GOP worried about overdevelopment. It's not often you hear GOP ads saying that construction projects ought to be halted.
 
Meadmaker said:
I don't know if it's a good idea or a bad idea. As I said, I don't see any real harm in having this Orthodox Jewish enclave in Detroit. And yet, it makes me uneasy. If I look at Dearborn, where the largest Arab Muslim neighborhood is found in the Detroit area, I see a mixed society with a Muslim majority, where over the last few decades immigrants have flocked to, giving it an ethnic feel, but where non-Muslims still live in large numbers. Within the square mile or so of the Orthodox neighborhood in Oak Park, it's virtually all Jewish, because that's the way they wanted it, and they've worked to create that ethnically pure area. I'm not sure what I would think if the Orthodox started expanding into my neighborhood. Right now, my neighborhood is heavily Jewish, but it's mostly Reform (like me) and Conservative. The Orthodox prefer to live with other Orthodox.


What I will say is that it's interesting to hear the GOP worried about overdevelopment. It's not often you hear GOP ads saying that construction projects ought to be halted.
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Is it anti-semitism for Orthodox to not allow Reform to live with them?
 
Meadmaker said:
That's a very ….. interesting.....ad.

I live next door to the Orthodox neighborhood here in Detroit, inside the eruv. The thing is, they really do want to create religiously pure neighborhoods. The first time I ever heard about how the process worked was when I attended a party at the home of my wife's Hebrew teacher. I had never spent much time with the Orthodox. They described to me their plans. One of the things they intended was to have Othodox Jews move in to a neighborhood, and then wait until a house goes for sale. An Orthodox family then buys the house, and then waits until an Orthodox family wants to move in, and they sell it to the new Orthodox family. It skirts, just barely, the anti-discrimination laws because it's not like they are a business selling houses only to one preferred ethnic or religious group. It's just one family selling a house to another family, and by coincidence they are both Orthodox.

Going into that neighborhood on a Saturday morning really does feel like stepping into a different nation. It has been some time since I was there. We lost touch with our friends there when they moved, and my wife was no longer taking the Hebrew classes. The last time I was there was for a Bar Mitzvah. It was January, and it had snowed a lot the night before. After the ceremony, which was held in a basement synagogue, common in that neighborhood, we walked home in the street, because it had been plowed by the municipal plows, but no one was driving, and the sidewalks weren't shoveled.

In my opinion, there's no real harm in it, and yet I can't say I am really a fan of it. I'm not much of a fan of religious discrimination in housing, regardless of how it's brought about. There has to be an awful lot of blind eyes turned toward anti-discrimination laws in that neighborhood. I don't think goyim are welcome.

I looked up the story behind the headlines that were in the ad, the ones flashed near the end of that ad. It seems that the nearby town of Palm Tree, New York, was created when a Jewish neighborhood petitioned to secede from the town of Monroe, New York, and was successful, creating a pure town full of only Orthodox Jews. (I don't know if it's truly "only" Orthodox Jews, but I'm guessing that readers of this forum would have a strangely difficult time finding a house available for purchase in Palm Tree.)

So, the ad is way, way, over the top in its imagery, and yet, I don't think forum members would be very approving of what is actually going on in that neighborhood.
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I like what you say in this post.

While there is nothing inherently wrong with suburbs or districts having high specific ethnic or religious populations (I'm used to it because the area I live in is very diverse - Indians, Sri Lankans, Pakistanis, Burmese, Chinese, Australians, Malaysians etc) I sure wouldn't want to be living in one of the targeted areas, feeling like I was being pressured to sell up and move out.

I can also see the potential for property values dropping as people don't want to buy in the area, and the potential buyer numbers become limited. This kind of thing can lead to stand-over tactics - and if you want to see how that works out, research what happened when Scientology took over Clearwater in Florida.
 
a_unique_person said:
Is it anti-semitism for Orthodox to not allow Reform to live with them?
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Uh, most Orthodox Jews are not Hasidim. There is a reason why the term "Ultra Orthodox" is used in describing the group in question.
A number of people here don't get that.
 
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dudalb said:
Uh, most Orthodox Jews are not Hasidim. There is a reason why the term "Ultra Orthodox" is used in describing the group in question.
A number of people here don't get that.
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The struggle between the ultra-Orthodox Hasidic Jews and the more secular Jews and non-Jews in Rockland has been going on for quite sometime. Rockland is roughly a third Jewish so there are many secular Jews who are also opposed to the infiltration by the Hasidic sects. The NYT has story from way back in 1997 detailing this same type of controversy.

"Already, the clash between cultures has been so intense that entire neighborhoods have seceded from Ramapo and formed their own villages. One Hasidic group, the Viznitz, carved out the village of Kaser in 1990 so it could build denser housing. Non-Jews and more secular Jews have formed villages like Airmont, New Hempstead and Wesley Hills to preserve the sparse Better Homes and Garden ambiance that attracted them to Rockland County."

''There are two reasons villages get formed in Rockland,'' says Paul W. Adler, chairman of the county's Jewish Community Relations Council. ''One is to keep the Hasidim out and the other is to keep the Hasidim in.''

Ironically, Hasidic Jews are the most supportive of Trump and vote Republican more than any other Jewish sect.

You can't mislead the Hasid.
 
a_unique_person said:
Birds of a feather. There will be pockets of ethnic groups in many cities. If they don't hurt anyone then that's their business. It is a bit rich to be saying that you don't want them to form a distinctive ethnic group, then say you have to protect your own distinct ethnic group. I would have thought the white guys would have been glad for the Skevers to isolate themselves away from the white folk. Maybe it's just because they aren't far away enough?
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And of course there is nothing wrong with ethnic groups taking over a town and changing things to drive out undesirable ethnicities as well.

The problems are not the cities, but towns where they then do things like destroy the school district and so on.
 
Puppycow said:
There was an episode of This American Life about something like this:

A Not-So-Simple Majority



So you can see the roots of the conflict here. The Hasidic Jews don't send their children to public schools, but they still have to pay property taxes to support those public schools because in America, public schools are primarily funded by local property taxes, not by state or national government. This is also why there is so much variation in the quality of public schools depending on the neighborhood in which you live. To me, it screams out that actually this is something that the Federal government should be funding, not local communities. But set that aside.

So you can sort of understand: they feel like they have to pay twice. Once for their own private schools which they send their own children too, and again for the public schools which they don't even use. Of course, that's short-sighted, but completely understandable given the selfishness of human nature.
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And destroying the schools is a great way to drive out the goy.
 
Puppycow said:
There was an episode of This American Life about something like this:

A Not-So-Simple Majority



So you can see the roots of the conflict here. The Hasidic Jews don't send their children to public schools, but they still have to pay property taxes to support those public schools because in America, public schools are primarily funded by local property taxes, not by state or national government. This is also why there is so much variation in the quality of public schools depending on the neighborhood in which you live. To me, it screams out that actually this is something that the Federal government should be funding, not local communities. But set that aside.

So you can sort of understand: they feel like they have to pay twice. Once for their own private schools which they send their own children too, and again for the public schools which they don't even use. Of course, that's short-sighted, but completely understandable given the selfishness of human nature.
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That episode of This American Life also came immediately to mind for me. To be honest, it's really a case of everyone acting rationally and having diametrically opposed interests.

The Ultra-Orthodox don't send their kids to public schools. Voting as a bloc to cut taxes to fund programs that they will never utilize is perfectly rational.

Similarly, non-hasidic residents are rational to resist this defunding of vital public services. From their perspective, hasidic control means becoming an unwanted, unsupported minority in their own town as foundations of public good are eroded.

I think there is a big difference between someone begrudging the generic outsider moving to their community and opposing the political takeover of a town by a ultra-orthodox religious community. Not wanting to be an outsider in a town run by a very insular community with extremely different values is pretty reasonable.

This is absolutely a matter for public policy debate, but based on the ad shown, I don't have much hope for the discussion being held in a civilized manner.

Another example comes to mind, and it may be a more instructive case because religion isn't involved. The Free State project is a libertarian scheme in which a whole bunch of libertarians plan to move to a low population state, New Hampshire, en masse in order to establish a society consistent with their libertarian ideals. They choose a low population state because they want to establish enough like minded voters to heavily influence, if not outright control, local and state politics. One might be sympathetic to someone already living in NH who is apprehensive about a bunch of political extremists taking control and radically changing the law and way of life. I don't really see the anti-hasidic reaction as that different.
 
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Wait wait wait. Am I reading this correctly? There is this certain group of Jews that are purposely doing some of the things all German Jews were accused of doing and caused them to be killed off by the tens of millions in one of the worst holocausts of human history?:jaw-dropp

Something has to be wrong here. It doesn't sound right at all.:confused::boggled:

While it is true that there are some really really stupid people in the world, they can't possibly be that dumb.
 
shemp said:
The only problem I have with this is that creating a closed gene pool is going to have some very bad results in a few generations.
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As it turns out, the orthodox have plan for that. They screen for genetic issues as soon as a couple meets and things marriage may be in the cards and either move forward or not based on the results.
 
ahhell said:
As it turns out, the orthodox have plan for that. They screen for genetic issues as soon as a couple meets and things marriage may be in the cards and either move forward or not based on the results.
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Ultra Orthodox, please....
 
Red Baron Farms said:
Wait wait wait. Am I reading this correctly? There is this certain group of Jews that are purposely doing some of the things all German Jews were accused of doing and caused them to be killed off by the tens of millions in one of the worst holocausts of human history?:jaw-dropp
Something has to be wrong here. It doesn't sound right at all.:confused::boggled:

While it is true that there are some really really stupid people in the world, they can't possibly be that dumb.
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I am a secular Jew who grew up in a diverse area of Brooklyn at the intersection of Italian, Asian, and ultra Orthodox Jewish areas. I strongly oppose the separateness that many of the ultra orthodox sects (some are even cults) profess. They basically want to be left alone to follow their own views and religious laws. Some are not awful wishes: they do not drive on the sabbath and they prefer others to not drive through their neighborhoods on the sabbath either. But others, such as their views of place of women, are abhorrent.

I don't have a problem with trying to accommodate any group's modest requests for accommodating their culture: closing a small street to traffic on a religious holiday for example. But all groups need to follow the law, whatever their religion. And this applies triple for anti- descrimination laws, etc. The ultra orthodox cannot be allowed to impose gender or religious tests ever on housing, hiring, etc.

That said I must mention these attempts to carve out separate communities are by no means unique to ultra Orthodox Jews. Church of LDS, Amish, etc. etc. all do it.

I add only two additional points. I am not Jewish enough to be considered Jewish by the ultra orthodox so I am among the excluded.

The.second relates to the part of your post I highlighted. My first read was that you were stating that what the German Jews were doing caused them to be killed! Presumably by being separate? This is incorrect, most German Jews were very integrated into the larger German society and fully self identified as Germans. And second it blames the victims for the horror visited on them. But I suspect these were not the actual intent of your words and my interpretation is wrong?
 
Giordano said:
But I suspect these were not the actual intent of your words and my interpretation is wrong?
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correct that is not. I was saying the false stereotype was purposely being done, as in taking over a community.

And btw Amish don't try to take over towns. They leave and make their own communities from scratch by their own hands. It's a huge difference.

If one day all the Amish in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana suddenly decided to conspire to infiltrate and take control of Rockland county and force out the rest of the Americans living there so they could enforce a ban on motor vehicles, I can assure you it would be met with just as much or more ill will and resistance.

Certainly if any other white Protestant group did the same, they also would meet just as strong a backlash.

But since there already is this stereotype of Jews Taking over and controlling through devious means like banks etc.... or being the kingmakers behind the scenes of a corrupt government, this action seems to be, if true, somewhat foolish.

In no way think I believe in stereotypes like this, but be sure that many do and stuff like this feeds the flames of racism.
 
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There is an interesting and nuanced conversation to have about this topic. Since we've already hit apologism for the Holocaust on page 1, I don't foresee how any good conversation can occur at this point. Gonna go ahead and call this one DOA and bow out.

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.
 
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dudalb said:
What's that about how Anti Semitic the Democrats are?
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I'm not sure why you think antisemitism from someone in the GOP reduces the antisemitism that's present among certain Democrats. It doesn't work that way.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
There is an interesting and nuanced conversation to have about this topic. Since we've already hit apologism for the Holocaust on page 1, I don't foresee how any good conversation can occur at this point. Gonna go ahead and call this one DOA and bow out.

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.
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Sort of sad I started this, since the differenece between Orthodox Jews and the Ultra Orthodox Hasidim seems to be hard for many people to get....
 
dudalb said:
Sort of sad I started this, since the differenece between Orthodox Jews and the Ultra Orthodox Hasidim seems to be hard for many people to get....
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Only one of them hold up planes because they refuse to sit next to women for one.
 
dudalb said:
Sort of sad I started this, since the differenece between Orthodox Jews and the Ultra Orthodox Hasidim seems to be hard for many people to get....
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In Detroit, the Orthodox neighborhood has Hasidim in it, in significant numbers, but also plenty of others. My friends, who lived in that neighborhood, were Sephardic.

I'm not sure where to draw the line between "Orthodox" and "Ultra Orthodox". Your point is well taken, but I honestly don't know how important it is, and I mean that in the literal sense. I mean I don't know. The only Orthodox I know are non-Hasidic, but they seem pretty "ultra" to me. I freely admit that is ignorance on my part.
 
If you want a rough rule of thumb, the Ultra Orthodox want to separate themselves out from society as a whole, and Orthodox do not.
Orthodox live in a Jewish neighborhood not because they have a fear or want to wall out the Gentiles, but simply because it is easier to observe the laws in a Jewish Neighborhood (Synogogues are within walking distance,..in the orthodox view, driving to snygogue violates the law on resting on the sabbath...food stores selling Kosher foods are easily accesed, etc) Ultra Othodox go beyond this and want to wall out the GOyim. Most Orthodox have Gentile friends; relatively few Hasidim do.
There are also differnces in interpretation of the law;most Orthodox , for instance interepert the old testament laws about dress differently then the Hasidim/Ultra Orthodox do;which is why the Hasidim have the distinctive dress.
 
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dudalb said:
If you want a rough rule of thumb, the Ultra Orthodox want to separate themselves out from society as a whole, and Orthodox do not.
Orthodox live in a Jewish neighborhood not because they have a fear or want to wall out the Gentiles, but simply because it is easier to observe the laws in a Jewish Neighborhood (Synogogues are within walking distance,..in the orthodox view, driving to snygogue violates the law on resting on the sabbath...food stores selling Kosher foods are easily accesed, etc) Ultra Othodox go beyond this and want to wall out the GOyim. Most Orthodox have Gentile friends; relatively few Hasidim do.
There are also differnces in interpretation of the law;most Orthodox , for instance interepert the old testament laws about dress differently then the Hasidim/Ultra Orthodox do;which is why the Hasidim have the distinctive dress.
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Why not assign some space to these isolationists, build a big wall around it, and push them in. Then leave them to it.

Just don't think about the word "ghetto"...
 
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