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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:16 AM   #1
Cainkane1
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Bullying in school were are the teachers

I got into a fight about twice a month in high school and on the school bus. The guys I was fighting were trying to pick on me. I had black eyes and its amazing I still have most of my teeth. Some of the punks I fought were way bigger than I was and apparently me not just standing there and taking the abuse angered them. However, I had rather go down fighting that just hope it will go away.

A girl I knew was shoved out of the dressing room wearing nothing but a bra and panties and another girl was only wearing a towel when the same thing happened to her. One poor boy was shoved out of the dressing room with nothing on at all. Let's just say except for what his hands could cover he was completely exposed.

Ok nobody was ever punished for doing this. The teachers were whereabouts unknown. Well, I do know where they were. Smoking cigarettes and yakking away in the teacher's lounge.

A lot could be done to stop bullying but sitting out of sight isn't one of them.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:23 AM   #2
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No; the momentum in schools is still toward a policy of teaching children that simply putting up with and ignoring the bullies will make them lose interest and stop. It's a lie, of course - it has literally never been true, at any time or in any place; but it accomplishes its actual goal of keeping victims from complaining to teachers who then don't have to spend effort dealing with such things.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:32 AM   #3
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These days, the advice is to,'Shake hands with the bully'.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:31 AM   #4
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I'll say this in favor of a Catholic High School education way back when.

You were encouraged to settle your differences in the boxing ring.

If you were a bully, going after a smaller,weaker student you were encouraged to settle your differences in the boxing ring, with Father Mahaney, the boxing coach.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:32 AM   #5
Cainkane1
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
These days, the advice is to,'Shake hands with the bully'.
Before or after or during the time you get tossed out of the dressing room partially clad or naked?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:33 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No; the momentum in schools is still toward a policy of teaching children that simply putting up with and ignoring the bullies will make them lose interest and stop. It's a lie, of course - it has literally never been true, at any time or in any place; but it accomplishes its actual goal of keeping victims from complaining to teachers who then don't have to spend effort dealing with such things.
Bullies will knock you on the floor and beat you. Spit on you. Destroy your school equipment etc.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:35 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I got into a fight about twice a month in high school and on the school bus. The guys I was fighting were trying to pick on me. I had black eyes and its amazing I still have most of my teeth. Some of the punks I fought were way bigger than I was and apparently me not just standing there and taking the abuse angered them. However, I had rather go down fighting that just hope it will go away.

A girl I knew was shoved out of the dressing room wearing nothing but a bra and panties and another girl was only wearing a towel when the same thing happened to her. One poor boy was shoved out of the dressing room with nothing on at all. Let's just say except for what his hands could cover he was completely exposed.

Ok nobody was ever punished for doing this. The teachers were whereabouts unknown. Well, I do know where they were. Smoking cigarettes and yakking away in the teacher's lounge.

A lot could be done to stop bullying but sitting out of sight isn't one of them.
I don't know how long ago this happened, or where, but currently things are quite different. Bullying is talked about and not tolerated. They have both assemblies and individual classroom discussions, and offenders are removed quickly.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No; the momentum in schools is still toward a policy of teaching children that simply putting up with and ignoring the bullies will make them lose interest and stop.
I have kids in 3rd and 5th grade, and I have not heard anything like this from the school they are in. However, it is only one school that I have any experience with, but what you are saying has no similarity with our (public) school's approach.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:47 AM   #9
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My kid's schools are pretty active about getting bullies reported, targeting the bullies for counselling type intervention, and re-jiggering the bullies' schedules so they have less ability to be near their victims. They'll be moved to alternative schools if the behavior persists.

Victims also get counselling, but of the sort that does not encourage accommodating the bullies.

My kids are in a three-grade middle school (6-7-8). Each class is just one grade level - no sixth graders in any classes with seventh graders, for example. Lunches the same way, each lunch period is one grade only. Periods between classes are also staggered - only one grade of kids in the hallway at a time. That really reduces the chances for smaller younger kids to be targeted by the older bigger kids.

It's not perfect, but it does seem like quite a bit of change from when I was that age.

Last edited by crescent; 23rd August 2019 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The teachers were whereabouts unknown. Well, I do know where they were. Smoking cigarettes and yakking away in the teacher's lounge.

A lot could be done to stop bullying but sitting out of sight isn't one of them.

Yes, we all know that, don't we?! Teachers spend their working days smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. They don't prepare the next lesson, they don't correct papers, and if they do, it's wrong. They should do those things after hours, shouldn't they?!
They already get paid much too much as it is.
When did you go to school, Cainkane1?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:53 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I don't know how long ago this happened, or where, but currently things are quite different. Bullying is talked about and not tolerated. They have both assemblies and individual classroom discussions, and offenders are removed quickly.
That's the theory, but there's also the reality:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...aught-n1042216

A California woman is suing a Los Angeles school district alleging her son was left with permanent brain and spinal injuries after another student choked him during a bullying incident last year.

The mother said her son, who was 12 at the time and a sixth grader at Animo Westside Charter Middle School, was "brutally assaulted and strangled" in January 2018 by a 14-year-old who allegedly had been violent toward other students, according to the lawsuit filed Monday in the Los Angeles County Superior Court.

Surveillance video from the January 2018 incident shows the alleged bully punch the 12-year-old boy in the stomach and then push him up against an outside wall. He then appears to put his hand around the 12-year-old's neck as other students crowd around them.

A female staff member walks by and looks at the group before walking away. The 12-year-old boy then falls to one knee and appears to be struggling to breathe.


A long time friend of mine went into education and ended up as a history teacher at a upper middle class high school om the S.F. Peninsula.

He witnessed an act of bullying and interceded by putting himself physically between the bully and the victim.

He put his hands on the bully. He didn't strike him or use any type of submission hold to control him - he simply put his hands on the chest of the aggressor to keep him from going after the victim.

You can guess what happened. Lawsuit by parents of bully. The school didn't back him but the union did in a limited fashion.

He left teaching, school district made a pay-out, and he ended up being held responsible for 20% of what the school had to pay-out.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:54 AM   #12
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The stories from the OP must be old. It would never happen that way today. For one thing, very few teachers smoke cigarettes, and I'm pretty sure that most school grounds are 100% smoke free, even the teachers' lounges, these days.


The biggest problem that I had with my son, who left junior high school 6 years ago, was a rather unrealistic expectation from teachers about what to do about bullying when it occurs. In chatting with people, I described an event in which my son was being pushed and shoved by a couple of kids, and he fought back. Describing it to a teacher, she responded that he should have called a teacher. I explained that of course he wasn't going to do that. She was baffled, and she seemed to genuinely not understand why that wasn't the best course of action. Why not? I explained that any boy who calls the teacher in that situation was immediately branded "a pussy". She really didn't realize that, didn't understand that, and hadn't even considered the possibility.

Totally clueless, and she teaches middle school.

ETA: What I counseled my son to do in such situations was to not throw a punch or get actively violent unless absolutely necessary, but make very loud, threatening, noises, enough so that the target of the words is the bullies, but it makes enough of a commotion that it will attract the teachers' attention.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 23rd August 2019 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:39 PM   #13
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Why, Horace Whitfield (a real bimbo!) used to hold my head under the bubbler whenever Susie McMillin walked by! It steamed me up but good! Why doesn't somebody do something about these bullyboys?

::spontaneous Charleston break::
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:59 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I got into a fight about twice a month in high school and on the school bus. The guys I was fighting were trying to pick on me. I had black eyes and its amazing I still have most of my teeth. Some of the punks I fought were way bigger than I was and apparently me not just standing there and taking the abuse angered them. However, I had rather go down fighting that just hope it will go away.

A girl I knew was shoved out of the dressing room wearing nothing but a bra and panties and another girl was only wearing a towel when the same thing happened to her. One poor boy was shoved out of the dressing room with nothing on at all. Let's just say except for what his hands could cover he was completely exposed.

Ok nobody was ever punished for doing this. The teachers were whereabouts unknown. Well, I do know where they were. Smoking cigarettes and yakking away in the teacher's lounge.

A lot could be done to stop bullying but sitting out of sight isn't one of them.
Not a single word of this is true. Never happened.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 02:19 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I got into a fight about twice a month in high school and on the school bus. The guys I was fighting were trying to pick on me. I had black eyes and its amazing I still have most of my teeth. Some of the punks I fought were way bigger than I was and apparently me not just standing there and taking the abuse angered them. However, I had rather go down fighting that just hope it will go away.

A girl I knew was shoved out of the dressing room wearing nothing but a bra and panties and another girl was only wearing a towel when the same thing happened to her. One poor boy was shoved out of the dressing room with nothing on at all. Let's just say except for what his hands could cover he was completely exposed.
And that was just the teachers!
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Old 23rd August 2019, 02:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I have kids in 3rd and 5th grade, and I have not heard anything like this from the school they are in. However, it is only one school that I have any experience with, but what you are saying has no similarity with our (public) school's approach.
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
My kid's schools are pretty active about getting bullies reported, targeting the bullies for counselling type intervention, and re-jiggering the bullies' schedules so they have less ability to be near their victims. They'll be moved to alternative schools if the behavior persists.

Victims also get counselling, but of the sort that does not encourage accommodating the bullies.

My kids are in a three-grade middle school (6-7-8). Each class is just one grade level - no sixth graders in any classes with seventh graders, for example. Lunches the same way, each lunch period is one grade only. Periods between classes are also staggered - only one grade of kids in the hallway at a time. That really reduces the chances for smaller younger kids to be targeted by the older bigger kids.

It's not perfect, but it does seem like quite a bit of change from when I was that age.
If this is true, then things have indeed changed for the better in at least some places and I'm happy to hear these reports.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 04:07 PM   #17
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When in doubt, blame teachers. Or, just start by blaming teachers and skip doubt all together.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 04:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, we all know that, don't we?! Teachers spend their working days smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. They don't prepare the next lesson, they don't correct papers, and if they do, it's wrong. They should do those things after hours, shouldn't they?!
They already get paid much too much as it is.
When did you go to school, Cainkane1?
I graduated in 1965. I'm old yes I know. I'm reacting to children complaining about being bullied not my own experience although I would have been had I not been blessed with a good punch.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:08 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I got into a fight about twice a month in high school and on the school bus. The guys I was fighting were trying to pick on me. I had black eyes and its amazing I still have most of my teeth. Some of the punks I fought were way bigger than I was and apparently me not just standing there and taking the abuse angered them. However, I had rather go down fighting that just hope it will go away.

A girl I knew was shoved out of the dressing room wearing nothing but a bra and panties and another girl was only wearing a towel when the same thing happened to her. One poor boy was shoved out of the dressing room with nothing on at all. Let's just say except for what his hands could cover he was completely exposed.

Ok nobody was ever punished for doing this. The teachers were whereabouts unknown. Well, I do know where they were. Smoking cigarettes and yakking away in the teacher's lounge.

A lot could be done to stop bullying but sitting out of sight isn't one of them.
Obviously, it has affected you greatly.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 06:08 PM   #20
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I think bullying should be treated as seriously as sexual assault.

I think for the most part society sweeps it under the rug. The physical and psychological pain can be long lasting for some.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I don't know how long ago this happened, or where, but currently things are quite different. Bullying is talked about and not tolerated. They have both assemblies and individual classroom discussions, and offenders are removed quickly.
That sounds nice in theory, but it isn't how it works in reality

There has been bullying since day dot. It is just an unfortunate part of kids growing up and exploring their social status.

Sitting down and chatting is fluff. May work on the odd occassion, though.

Personally think I was only bullied once, and just fought back and it never happened again (though this is just one anecdote obviously, not always so easy) and never really bullied anyone.


His timing was unfortunate
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:11 PM   #22
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I like how in everyone’s bully story, they successfully fought back and vanquished the bully.
I’m sure it went down just like that.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
I like how in everyone’s bully story, they successfully fought back and vanquished the bully.
I’m sure it went down just like that.
Me

Quote:
(though this is just one anecdote obviously, not always so easy)
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:42 PM   #24
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In our school (12 grades under one roof), we had a bullying problem. The problem bully was our principal, Warren the Bull. For forty years, he struck, strangled, kicked, threw, and terrified all the boys under the age of 12 or so. He inflicted two permanent physical injuries that I know of; bruises, scrapes, sprains, and psychic injuries didn't count.

Fight back? Are you kidding? He had wrestled as a heavyweight even in college. Boys of 9 could do nothing, least of all tell the teachers, who needed their jobs -- no, least of all could they tell their parents, who, in those days, WERE ON THE BULL'S SIDE! They assumed, perhaps with some reason, that young semi-savages could only be handled and contained by rough methods.

The sïchool board quite treasured the Bull. They had found a man who would devote his life to that little isolated school, and they weren't about to put any brakes on him.

Cainkane m' man, be very glad you never had to try your proud punch on Warren the Bull.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:12 PM   #25
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Fighting back can only work if you can consistently win. Fighting back against a bigger more skilled fighter who has more and bigger friends than you can at best be pointless and at worst make things worse.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:20 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Fighting back can only work if you can consistently win. Fighting back against a bigger more skilled fighter who has more and bigger friends than you can at best be pointless and at worst make things worse.
Depends on the situation obviously, but tend to agree

What needs to happen is kids that aren't the bully or the bullee (I made up a word!) need to be taught that it is wrong and to lend a hand.

I know that sounds like bullying the bully, which you could argue is just as bad and sinking to their level, but it tends to work.

Kind of like school unionisation
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I graduated in 1965. I'm old yes I know. I'm reacting to children complaining about being bullied not my own experience although I would have been had I not been blessed with a good punch.
These anecdotes are more than fifty years old then. What’s your basis for thinking teachers still do nothing while sitting in their offices smoking?!?

I have it on good authority that they actually take snuff and dance to their gramophone records.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 10:57 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I got into a fight about twice a month in high school and on the school bus. The guys I was fighting were trying to pick on me. I had black eyes and its amazing I still have most of my teeth. Some of the punks I fought were way bigger than I was and apparently me not just standing there and taking the abuse angered them. However, I had rather go down fighting that just hope it will go away.

A girl I knew was shoved out of the dressing room wearing nothing but a bra and panties and another girl was only wearing a towel when the same thing happened to her. One poor boy was shoved out of the dressing room with nothing on at all. Let's just say except for what his hands could cover he was completely exposed.

Ok nobody was ever punished for doing this. The teachers were whereabouts unknown. Well, I do know where they were. Smoking cigarettes and yakking away in the teacher's lounge.

A lot could be done to stop bullying but sitting out of sight isn't one of them.

Thanks for sharing I guess.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:46 AM   #29
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Fighting back can only work if you can consistently win. Fighting back against a bigger more skilled fighter who has more and bigger friends than you can at best be pointless and at worst make things worse.
I dont know how much has changed but it used to be fighting back would backfire since the one disturbing the natural order (status quo) was the victim not knowing their role and jut putting up with the bully. Hopefully Schools do better these days.
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No; the momentum in schools is still toward a policy of teaching children that simply putting up with and ignoring the bullies will make them lose interest and stop. It's a lie, of course - it has literally never been true, at any time or in any place; but it accomplishes its actual goal of keeping victims from complaining to teachers who then don't have to spend effort dealing with such things.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
These days, the advice is to,'Shake hands with the bully'.
I don't know about where you are but here it's taken seriously and dealt with.
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:24 AM   #31
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In my days the teachers said that being bullied "improved your character".

Funnily enough they took a dim view of me improving the character of the bullies.
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Old 26th August 2019, 10:30 AM   #32
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Obviously there where no English teachers in the OP's school.
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Old 26th August 2019, 01:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Obviously there where no English teachers in the OP's school.
Beat me to it.

PLEASE ask for the title to be changed - I actually had to spend some time working out what was meant by it.
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Old 26th August 2019, 01:16 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Depends on the situation obviously, but tend to agree

What needs to happen is kids that aren't the bully or the bullee (I made up a word!) need to be taught that it is wrong and to lend a hand.

I know that sounds like bullying the bully, which you could argue is just as bad and sinking to their level, but it tends to work.

Kind of like school unionisation
That sort of is the approach at the school my kids went to. They had tutor groups that were across years, so that the year 7's knew at least some Year 11's as well as other years. They also buddied the y7's with older kids. When some y8 tried to push around a y7, they'd often find a bigger kid taking an interest.

It seemed to work in general.
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:27 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I don't know how long ago this happened, or where, but currently things are quite different. Bullying is talked about and not tolerated. They have both assemblies and individual classroom discussions, and offenders are removed quickly.
The 60's
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:31 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
I like how in everyone’s bully story, they successfully fought back and vanquished the bully.
I’m sure it went down just like that.
I lost quite a few fights. Fighting them often made the situation worse as they looked stupid starting something they thought they had complete control over. One guy was a gang member and he was trying to shove me into this short chubby girl on the bus. He got hit pretty hard and he wasn't expecting it. I lost the fight but he looked stupid in front of his friends which was almost as bad as getting beaten.
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:32 PM   #37
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I often wonder if these incidents is why I support the death penalty.
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Old 13th September 2019, 01:32 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
I like how in everyone’s bully story, they successfully fought back and vanquished the bully.
I’m sure it went down just like that.
Yeah, everybody thinks they were Ralphie taking down Scutt in "A Christmas Story".
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:20 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I lost quite a few fights. Fighting them often made the situation worse as they looked stupid starting something they thought they had complete control over. One guy was a gang member and he was trying to shove me into this short chubby girl on the bus. He got hit pretty hard and he wasn't expecting it. I lost the fight but he looked stupid in front of his friends which was almost as bad as getting beaten.
I had some problems with bullies as a kid. I was the smallest kid in my grade until, maybe 10th grade (at which point I was one of the smallest).

In 1st grade one kid used to beat me up whenever he found me alone. I don't know why, but he just liked to. I still have a memory of walking into the toilet and seeing him there and freezing, at which point he grabbed me by the hair and swung me against the wall. No idea how accurate that memory is, but that's how I remember it. I tried telling my friends. Then they'd get revenge and return the beating. That never helped, when we were alone he'd still kick my ass. At some point I decided to try making friends with him. That actually worked. I went to his house for lunch sometimes, and he actually was really nice. But I was always terrifed of him. At one point he invited me to go on a canoe trip with his family. I was terrified: I thought it was a trap to torture and kill me in the woods, so said no. The idea of being alone with him in the woods for a whole weekend was just too much.

Another time, I was in 6th grade I think, one kid started making threats. He told me he was going to kill me, things like that. And he started following me around the playground. I think he just enjoyed scaring me, but it pissed me off, and one day when he was following me I turned around, ran at him, tackled him, held him down and screamed in his face "WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?!" He left me alone after that.

There were other bullies who weren't physical. In 7th or 8th grade I remember the kid sitting next to me in one class would torment me every day. That was actually the worst. I had no idea what to do. I was extremely shy and sort of awkward. He just got joy out of making fun of me and the more it affected me the more he enjoyed it. That only ended when I didn't have class with him anymore.

There were others, but nothing really serious. I had it pretty easy. I remember one kid who was psychologically tormented on a daily basis for at least a year (maybe 2?). I still feel bad for him. I usually tried to call out bullies when they were bullying other kids, but that one I didn't have the courage to say or do anything. I was too scared they'd turn on me instead.
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Old 17th September 2019, 07:30 AM   #40
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I have a 20 year old in college, and a 2nd grader. Bullying isn't the same as it was when I was in school. It's much more psychological, social media, etc. now than it is physical.

When the 20 year old was in junior high, I was shocked at just how nasty all the girls would be to each other. Vicious texts, facebooks posts, ask.com crap, you name it.
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