ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 30th September 2019, 05:03 AM   #41
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,233
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Ditto here in New England. It's largely flown on pickup trucks by young men who seem to like to fancy themselves as conservative or libertarian rebels. It's a safe bet that they have no Confederate connection. If they're not racist, it's likely that they're just too stupid and thoughtless to understand what they claim to represent, thinking of their rebellion as nebulous anti-establishment angst.
One of the benefits of moving up North. Here the lifted pickup trucks tend to fly the US flag. Back in SC, it was extremely common to see either the confederate battle flag or, confusingly enough, both flags flown together. Not sure how you square flying the flag of the confederacy with the flag of the nation that eradicated it by force of arms, but that's cognitive dissonance for you.

I occasionally see the confederate flag here, but as you say, it seems to be more of an edgelord thing than an actual espousal of any historical or regional ideology, though that's not really much of an excuse.

It is notable that the Confederate battle flag, and not the flag of the actual Confederate States of America, is the one that has become the cultural icon.

Valorizing the war service of the confederacy is a good way of having a rosy view of the past while ignoring the pesky facts that the CSA was an inherently immoral, pro-slavery project for all of its short life. In any war, it is possible to find and deify individuals who served honorably and bravely, and those virtues are universal enough to respect outside of the context of the war itself.

Confederate soldier worship is a soft-entry into lost cause ideology and greater white supremacy. Start by focusing on noble soldiers and expand the view until the entire Confederate project starts to look like a good idea.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th September 2019, 05:15 AM   #42
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 48,139
Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
Absolutely. If the flag has been stolen by deplorables, it's time to steal it back.
Yea it means white supremacy and black servility and those who claim it means anything else need to learn better. Deplorable they spit on the fine history of it as a beacon for the white race.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th September 2019, 05:16 AM   #43
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 48,139
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Fixed that for you.
Not anymore, he was pardoned.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th September 2019, 09:04 PM   #44
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 15,571
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not anymore, he was pardoned.

I'll have to remember, when I hear the name and inevitably visualize a guy with the head of an elephant playing a modified wide-belled tuba, not to also have him wearing a striped prison uniform any more.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 04:30 AM   #45
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,233
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not anymore, he was pardoned.
Still a convicted felon. Per DOJ:
Quote:
Does a presidential pardon expunge or erase the conviction for which the pardon was granted?
No. Expungement is a judicial remedy that is rarely granted by the court and cannot be granted within the Department of Justice or by the President. Please also be aware that if you were to be granted a presidential pardon, the pardoned offense would not be removed from your criminal record. Instead, both the federal conviction as well as the pardon would both appear on your record. However, a pardon will facilitate removal of legal disabilities imposed because of the conviction, and should lessen to some extent the stigma arising from the conviction. In addition, a pardon may be helpful in obtaining licenses, bonding, or employment. If you are seeking expungement of a federal offense, please contact the court of conviction. If you are seeking expungement of a state conviction, which the Office of the Pardon Attorney also does not have authority to handle, states have different procedures for “expunging” a conviction or “clearing” the record of a criminal conviction. To pursue relief of a state conviction, you should contact the Governor or state Attorney General in the state in which you were convicted for assistance.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequ...sked-questions

He is a convicted felon who received a pardon.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 05:16 AM   #46
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,710
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Still a convicted felon. Per DOJ:


https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequ...sked-questions

He is a convicted felon who received a pardon.

In theory that is supposed to mitigate using "convicted felon" as an epithet. Most of the time it should be seen as "donated money".
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

Last edited by Beerina; 1st October 2019 at 05:17 AM.
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 09:38 AM   #47
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,427
Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
In theory that is supposed to mitigate using "convicted felon" as an epithet. Most of the time it should be seen as "donated money".
In this case it's more a matter of "Hated Obama".
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 09:48 AM   #48
CaptainHowdy
Graduate Poster
 
CaptainHowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,312
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
It is on the same level as the Nazi swastika*. They are both symbols of hate, not heritage.

* I'm well aware of the Hindu swastika, with which I have no problem. It isn't difficult to differentiate between the Hindu and Nazi swastikas.
Try walking down the street with a Hindu swastika t-shirt and see how many people spot the difference
CaptainHowdy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 10:03 AM   #49
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,440
Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
Absolutely. If the flag has been stolen by deplorables, it's time to steal it back.
Nah, they can have it. If we really wanted to take one back it would be the CSA flag. That actually looks good in a room.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 10:17 AM   #50
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,062
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Nah, they can have it. If we really wanted to take one back it would be the CSA flag. That actually looks good in a room.
The CSA flag has the disadvantage of actually being the official symbol of the slaveowner regime. I'd consider it much more hateful - unacceptably so - than any strictly military banner of the Confederacy.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 10:20 AM   #51
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,452
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea it means white supremacy and black servility and those who claim it means anything else need to learn better. Deplorable they spit on the fine history of it as a beacon for the white race.
Yeah pretty much. The KKK "stole it" from people who historically fought to preserve the institution of black slavery, so the meaning wasn't substantially changed.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 01:23 PM   #52
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 48,139
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The CSA flag has the disadvantage of actually being the official symbol of the slaveowner regime. I'd consider it much more hateful - unacceptably so - than any strictly military banner of the Confederacy.
Like all those monuments to brave Wermach soldiers we need to have put up all over the US by the Daughters of the Third Reich.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 01:50 PM   #53
Ron Obvious
Scholar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The CSA flag has the disadvantage of actually being the official symbol of the slaveowner regime. I'd consider it much more hateful - unacceptably so - than any strictly military banner of the Confederacy.
So was the US flag once the flag of a slave owner regime, give or take a few stars. I don't get the controversy.
Ron Obvious is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 01:55 PM   #54
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,440
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The CSA flag has the disadvantage of actually being the official symbol of the slaveowner regime. I'd consider it much more hateful - unacceptably so - than any strictly military banner of the Confederacy.
But aesthetically it is far less offensive. I would even say it looks good. So, if we were going to go to the effort of rehabilitating a symbol that had become tarnished by its use, I would rather that effort be expended on something that had some use once cleansed of all of its baggage.

Of course, the underlying point to this whole discussion is that it is rather absurd to think either symbol could be rehabilitated, so I find it a moot point.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 02:22 PM   #55
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,439
Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
So was the US flag once the flag of a slave owner regime, give or take a few stars. I don't get the controversy.
The flag of the CSA represents a country whose sole existence was as an enemy of the United States.

It wasn't just that they were an enemy of the US, it was their sole reason it formed, to oppose the USA.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 02:52 PM   #56
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,062
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The flag of the CSA represents a country whose sole existence was as an enemy of the United States.

It wasn't just that they were an enemy of the US, it was their sole reason it formed, to oppose the USA.
I don't think the Confederate States of America formed solely to oppose the United States of America, any more than Canadia or Mexico formed solely to oppose the US.

I think it's more accurate to say that the CSA was formed for two main reasons: First to not be opposed by (the rest of) the United States, primarily over its slaveholding policy, along with other related questions of state sovereignty. And second, to compete independently of (the rest of) the US for the land and resources of North America.

Naturally, this put them at odds with, and due to their origin, necessarily in enmity towards the US. Similarly to how Mexico's competing with the US for North American territory put them in enmity with the US from time to time. But this is not the same as saying that Mexico was formed solely to be an enemy of the United States. From what I can tell, the CSA would have been more than content to not be an enemy of the US, if the US government could just see its way clear to let them do their own thing.

Last edited by theprestige; 1st October 2019 at 02:54 PM.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 03:39 PM   #57
autumn1971
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,013
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Only since Charleston

It was basically nothing till the left got all offended by it after that
Complete and total ********.

Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12
And nobody listened to the “coloreds”, so it was fine for a hell of a lot of Americans.

Not for everyone, and it was recognized for what it is by a hell of a lot more people than just “the left.”
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard

Last edited by kmortis; 3rd October 2019 at 06:59 AM.
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 03:43 PM   #58
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,440
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Complete and total ********.

Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12
And nobody listened to the “coloreds”, so it was fine for a hell of a lot of Americans.

Not for everyone, and it was recognized for what it is by a hell of a lot more people than just “the left.”
Yeah, I grew up in the south and I knew better than to proudly display that crap. And both the General Lee and Lynard Skynard were offensive but tolerated. Those people don't know better, bless their hearts.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

Last edited by kmortis; 3rd October 2019 at 07:00 AM.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 03:43 PM   #59
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 24,615
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think the Confederate States of America formed solely to oppose the United States of America, any more than Canadia or Mexico formed solely to oppose the US.

I think it's more accurate to say that the CSA was formed for two main reasons: First to not be opposed by (the rest of) the United States, primarily over its slaveholding policy, along with other related questions of state sovereignty. And second, to compete independently of (the rest of) the US for the land and resources of North America.

Naturally, this put them at odds with, and due to their origin, necessarily in enmity towards the US. Similarly to how Mexico's competing with the US for North American territory put them in enmity with the US from time to time. But this is not the same as saying that Mexico was formed solely to be an enemy of the United States. From what I can tell, the CSA would have been more than content to not be an enemy of the US, if the US government could just see its way clear to let them do their own thing.
Perhaps, but it would be easier to accept the idea of "state sovereignty" as an actual cause if the fugitive slave act did not exist, and if the issue of competition in new territories were not so tied to whether those territories would allow slavery. Even if some of the principles of the Confederacy could be spun into the general, their origin and importance always seems to come down to slavery.

I think the analogy with Mexico is shaky. Mexico was not a part of the US. The Confederacy was. Mexico was founded in rebellion against Spain, the United States in rebellion against Great Britain, and the Confederacy in rebellion against the United States.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st October 2019, 06:57 PM   #60
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,320
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Complete and total ********.

Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12
And nobody listened to the “coloreds”, so it was fine for a hell of a lot of Americans.

Not for everyone, and it was recognized for what it is by a hell of a lot more people than just “the left.”
Exactly. If you thought there were no problems with that flag prior to Charleston you weren't paying attention. That you weren't paying attention was probably why there was a problem to begin with.

Numerous former Confederate states had the flag appearing on their state flags since well before Charleston and people complained. Several of the states outright flew that flag in front of their Capitol houses. Every single time the complaints were met with 'muh heritage!' and voted down or dismissed by the state Governors who dared not counter the alternative history prescribed by the Daughters of the Confederacy. This went on for decades.

That said, private citizens or TV portrayals of the flag (such as Dukes of Hazzard) were usually just tolerated. It really wasn't worth going after. Roll those eyes at the ancestor worship and move on.

But don't think for a second that people thought it was hunky dory to have that flag flying in front of the State Capitol Building.

Charleston was a tipping point. Not a starting point. With years of people realizing that their High School education of 'states rights' and 'lost cause' BS people were already not keen to continue the re-writing works of the DAR, so the 'muh heritage' crowd's pleas were severely weakened. Especially given that there was a strong link between 'thur heritage' and a coward who murdered churchgoers who he knew would be unarmed because he was afraid in other places someone might shoot back. Quite fitting, Dylan Roof is just Confederate hero Preston Brooks with an Automatic Pistol.

Once it was apparent how Roof had been inspired by Confederate Symbology, the actual bare minimum was done. It wasn't even that severe, local battlefield parks stores simply took away things that the flag was on without context. Books on the Civil War that showed both flags stayed on shelves, but the Confederate Flag mugs and bumper stickers were outta there.

Soon other private stores followed suit: Wal-Mart & Amazon in particular. Neo-Confederates yowled at the top of their lungs as if their personal rights were being denied. Ignoring the fact that there were still places you could get those stupid flags. But the numbers that the Peacock-Displaying Neo-Confederate could generate just wasn't enough for the companies to reconsider. Go figure.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

Last edited by kmortis; 3rd October 2019 at 07:00 AM.
kookbreaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 12:02 AM   #61
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,452
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Still a convicted felon. Per DOJ:


https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequ...sked-questions

He is a convicted felon who received a pardon.
Given the circumstances surrounding his pardon, he's rather unlikely to enjoy some of the "lessening of stigma" that usually comes with a presidential pardon I think.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 12:17 AM   #62
Lambchops
Graduate Poster
 
Lambchops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norvegr
Posts: 1,384
Just when I thought the threads on this site could not possibly get any dumber.
__________________
Your grandchildren will be brown, trans, and Islamo-Communist.
Lambchops is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 02:54 AM   #63
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 48,139
Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
So was the US flag once the flag of a slave owner regime, give or take a few stars. I don't get the controversy.
Well there is this nice speech about why the confederacy was founded

"But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution, African slavery as it exists amongst us – the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”1"


https://teachingamericanhistory.org/...rstone-speech/
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:12 AM   #64
rockysmith76
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
That was vandalism. In my opinion, the emblem shouldn't be there in the first place as it stirs up negative memories and emotions. However, like an evil Genie, the emblem is all over the place in a very hateful negative way.
Liberal Moral equivalence, with a possible point, but where does that end. If you deny the South their flag but allowing the Republic of Jefferson theirs or the Black power movement their flag, the selectivity and hypocrisy of the agenda becomes clear.
rockysmith76 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:15 AM   #65
rockysmith76
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Complete and total ********.

Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12
And nobody listened to the “coloreds”, so it was fine for a hell of a lot of Americans.

Not for everyone, and it was recognized for what it is by a hell of a lot more people than just “the left.”
because of course questioning the LIBERAL PC agenda means one is auto-racist. Nope. More Liberal nonsense.

Last edited by kmortis; 3rd October 2019 at 07:01 AM.
rockysmith76 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:17 AM   #66
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,233
Locals should start decorating these civil war memorials with these medals from Amazon:



CSA, second place finishers in the American Civil War.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:22 AM   #67
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 52,047
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Locals should start decorating these civil war memorials with these medals from Amazon:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....uHDLL._AC_.jpg

CSA, second place finishers in the American Civil War.
I think Participant certificates are sufficient.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:23 AM   #68
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,923
Keep the Civil War statues, but you have to add a statue of a black person in chains at the feet of everyone of them.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:25 AM   #69
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,923
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
because of course questioning the LIBERAL PC agenda means one is auto-racist. Nope. More Liberal nonsense.
No. Defending racists traitors is "auto-racist."
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:31 AM   #70
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,233
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Keep the Civil War statues, but you have to add a statue of a black person in chains at the feet of everyone of them.
Pretty much what these cities are doing now, in states that have passed laws explicitly forbidding removal.

Cities are putting up plaques next to the monuments calling them out as the white supremacist propaganda that they are. So there's something.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/marke...7fex-moAizXMw#

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEgNnaHXYAA1CZe.jpg
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:40 AM   #71
rockysmith76
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No. Defending racists traitors is "auto-racist."
and lumping a Southerners with the KKK isn't biased at all. Way to deny the Inuit their culture to, another Liberal crime against Humanity.
rockysmith76 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:43 AM   #72
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,923
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
and lumping a Southerners with the KKK isn't biased at all. Way to deny the Inuit their culture to, another Liberal crime against Humanity.
Oh I'm sorry I'll guess I'll just take my North Carolina born, Florida living liberal elitist self away then.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:48 AM   #73
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,271
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
That was vandalism.
Yes, but it was funny vandalism.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 05:49 AM   #74
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 52,047
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Keep the Civil War statues, but you have to add a statue of a black person in chains at the feet of everyone of them.
Unfortunately some of the people we're discussing would see that as a plus. "Values dissonance" the trope is called.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 06:08 AM   #75
rockysmith76
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh I'm sorry I'll guess I'll just take my North Carolina born, Florida living liberal elitist self away then.
limo libs are the worst.
rockysmith76 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 06:09 AM   #76
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,320
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Liberal Moral equivalence, with a possible point, but where does that end. If you deny the South their flag but allowing the Republic of Jefferson theirs or the Black power movement their flag, the selectivity and hypocrisy of the agenda becomes clear.
False equivalency is false.

Anyone can have their silly flags.

But when its flown in front of your state capitol with that much racist baggage I don't think its hypocrisy to demand its removal.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 06:41 AM   #77
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,233
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
False equivalency is false.

Anyone can have their silly flags.

But when its flown in front of your state capitol with that much racist baggage I don't think its hypocrisy to demand its removal.
We all remember when the SC state house flew the black power flag for decades, right?
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd October 2019, 06:56 AM   #78
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 48,139
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
We all remember when the SC state house flew the black power flag for decades, right?
Starting as a anti segregation protest, yep.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th October 2019, 11:01 AM   #79
Cainkane1
Philosopher
 
Cainkane1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The great American southeast
Posts: 8,776
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Liberal Moral equivalence, with a possible point, but where does that end. If you deny the South their flag but allowing the Republic of Jefferson theirs or the Black power movement their flag, the selectivity and hypocrisy of the agenda becomes clear.
The flag of the south is the stars and stripes as it should always have been.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.
Cainkane1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th October 2019, 11:41 AM   #80
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,984
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
It is on the same level as the Nazi swastika*. They are both symbols of hate, not heritage.

* I'm well aware of the Hindu swastika, with which I have no problem. It isn't difficult to differentiate between the Hindu and Nazi swastikas.
Get real, guy. The Swastika had been corrupted beyond hope of saving, which is why Hindus in the US and the West pretty much don't use it anymore.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:44 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.