ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 4th October 2019, 07:23 AM   #41
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 88,364
Originally Posted by Belgian thought View Post
When you are there, can you get me the winning lottery numbers for next Wednesday in Spain please. Thanks.
Hang on a moment, I need a new printer and that's in the approved list.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th October 2019, 08:11 AM   #42
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,822
Was it Houdini who, after being passed a message by a medium from his mother, expressed amazement that she had learned English after "passing over"?
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th October 2019, 12:11 PM   #43
Armitage72
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,533
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
If the medium does come to you, don't answer any questions. Thank them for the message and say you will consider it. You can find out lots of information through questions.

When James Randi interviewed a pair of Russian women who could supposedly divine information about someone from a photograph, they were quite upset when he didn't respond to any of their guesses, but just sat quietly taking notes. They ended up describing an executed serial killer as a kind family man who was deeply involved in helping his community.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th October 2019, 02:13 PM   #44
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,822
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
When James Randi interviewed a pair of Russian women who could supposedly divine information about someone from a photograph, they were quite upset when he didn't respond to any of their guesses, but just sat quietly taking notes. They ended up describing an executed serial killer as a kind family man who was deeply involved in helping his community.
That was a very good TV show. Randi got into Russia before anyone knew who he was. Much humour as he debunked a series of frauds. Though, in the case of Ted Bundy, I suppose the accuracy of the reading is a matter of perspective.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th October 2019, 02:36 PM   #45
curious cat
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
When James Randi interviewed a pair of Russian women who could supposedly divine information about someone from a photograph, they were quite upset when he didn't respond to any of their guesses, but just sat quietly taking notes. They ended up describing an executed serial killer as a kind family man who was deeply involved in helping his community.
I don't know the exact story and the list of his victims - but maybe it actually was the case ;-).
curious cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th October 2019, 02:09 PM   #46
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,693
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
wasapi, you might try a prayer tonight asking your departed relatives to come and give you a message tomorrow. They might not know you are going to go to church, and you could try to alert them ahead of time.

So the departed ones need to be alerted do they? You can do this yourself without the help of a medium then? Its just the other way (spirits communicating with you), where a medium is needed then?

Just as well you have a firm grasp on this stuff Scorpion as I find it most confusing.

Say, what about if the departed one has moved on to another incarnation already? No loose spirit to communicate with. Do your mediums come up against this problem often and advise this is the case?*


* Got a feeling I may have asked this question before and received no answer.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th October 2019, 02:32 PM   #47
Scorpion
Master Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,246
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
So the departed ones need to be alerted do they? You can do this yourself without the help of a medium then? Its just the other way (spirits communicating with you), where a medium is needed then?

Just as well you have a firm grasp on this stuff Scorpion as I find it most confusing.

Say, what about if the departed one has moved on to another incarnation already? No loose spirit to communicate with. Do your mediums come up against this problem often and advise this is the case?*


* Got a feeling I may have asked this question before and received no answer.
A person can send their thoughts to a spirit, and the spirit will probably hear them. But then the person needs a medium to get an answer, unless they are psychic themselves.

I have never heard a medium say a relative had reincarnated, but if they had you would obviously not hear from them.

The person I was hoping to hear from was wasapi, I was hoping she could tell us what happened at the church service yesterday.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 5th October 2019 at 03:28 PM. Reason: typo
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th October 2019, 03:17 PM   #48
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: I try to be a moving target
Posts: 15,116
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
A person can send their thoughts to a spirit, and the spirit will probably hear them. But then the person needs a medium to get an answer, unless they are psychic themselves..
1) There are no spirts
2) There are no mediums
3) There are no psychics.
You are shooting 0 from 3 please concentrate and try harder.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th October 2019, 05:36 PM   #49
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,725
Forumites go on these ventures from time to time. When they're off to encounter, say, faith healers or popular prophets, my advice has always been to take some muscle.

In this case, it might not be necessary. "Spiritualist church" sounds pretty elderly and non-threatening. I doubt you'd encounter any terribly aggressive zealots, if you were spotted as an infidel.

But a husky companion or two wouldn't be a bad idea.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 12:07 AM   #50
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,692
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Or wasapi could give the medium a fair chance, and listen to what is said with an open mind.
If the mediums really can do what they claim, then a false information that the father is dead should not cause trouble. They can just say "Well, the spirit I am reaching says he is not your father", or something similar.
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 01:16 AM   #51
Scorpion
Master Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,246
wasapi, please do tell us what happened at the spiritualist church, I am dying to know.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 01:21 AM   #52
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 11,332
For the first time ever I agree with Scorpion. Tell us what happened, wasapi.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 02:31 AM   #53
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,124
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Jesus, do all of you spend the whole time at a magic show trying to figure out how the tricks are done? Just treat it as entertainment and enjoy the show.

Trying to figure out how the tricks are done is the only thing that makes them entertaining and enjoyable. Otherwise, well, a guy pulls a rabbit out of his hat, and so what? I've seen guys, hats and rabbits before.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 02:35 AM   #54
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,124
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Don't expect too much on your first visit, the medium may not come to you with a message. I went every week for two years before I was convinced some mediums were genuine. By that time I had received quite a number of evidential personal messages.
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
One more thing , If a medium does come to you with a message, tell them no information. Just answer any questions with a 'yes' or 'no' and don't smile or give them any facial clues. I used to answer them with a toneless voice, so as not to register any interest in what they said.

After two years, they must have known all they needed to know about you.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 02:40 AM   #55
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: I try to be a moving target
Posts: 15,116
Originally Posted by dann View Post
After two years, they must have known all they needed to know about you.
This is someone impressed by the regurgitation of publically available information, I doubt they will see the reputation of information they have provided as any less miraculous.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 06:04 AM   #56
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,124
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
For the first time ever I agree with Scorpion. Tell us what happened, wasapi.

"I get a "W" and an "I". Is there a Winnie in the room? .... or maybe a William?"
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 06:13 AM   #57
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 19,221
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
One thing you might try is a kind of control experiment where you respond positively to something that doesn't actually apply to you, and continue to give positive feedback as the medium fishes. Someone on this board did this a while back and had got the medium to tell him all sorts of interesting stuff that his father (I think it was) wanted to tell him, before finally revealing that his father was still alive and all the stuff he'd agreed was accurate in order to lead the medium astray was, in fact, entirely wrong.
I was going to suggest just not responding when the medium starts to ask questions during the cold reading but this is a much better idea.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 02:25 PM   #58
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,693
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
wasapi, please do tell us what happened at the spiritualist church, I am dying to know.
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
For the first time ever I agree with Scorpion. Tell us what happened, wasapi.

Agreeing with Scorpion ........ that is a worry.

Didn't wasapi tell us her friend resembled a fairy? So perhaps wasapi is "off with the fairies" now. Be patient, she'll be back soon. Scorpion is hoping she gets converted methinks. Praise the mediums!
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 02:30 PM   #59
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 7,104
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Agreeing with Scorpion ........ that is a worry.

Didn't wasapi tell us her friend resembled a fairy? So perhaps wasapi is "off with the fairies" now. Be patient, she'll be back soon. Scorpion is hoping she gets converted methinks. Praise the mediums!
Methinks Scorpion is in for a dissapointment.
bluesjnr is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 02:49 PM   #60
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,730
I will attend on Friday, Oct. 11th. I have no intention of going with an agenda. No plan or thoughts of somehow messing with them with any tricks or traps. I consider myself rational enough to observe and reflect.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 03:29 PM   #61
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,693
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
A person can send their thoughts to a spirit, and the spirit will probably hear them. But then the person needs a medium to get an answer, unless they are psychic themselves.

I have never heard a medium say a relative had reincarnated, but if they had you would obviously not hear from them.

The person I was hoping to hear from was wasapi, I was hoping she could tell us what happened at the church service yesterday.


Doesn't strike you as odd then?

You've told us in you're authoritative way how folk get reincarnated, and yet non of your experiences with mediums includes advice from said medium, that this or that dude is now off air because of being reincarnated.

Surely you must see how fishy this sounds? Almost as if the mediums want to be seen as coming up with the goods whenever required. Do you not have the slightest inkling of skepticism in your mind?
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th October 2019, 11:27 PM   #62
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 11,332
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I will attend on Friday, Oct. 11th.
Ah, right. For some reason I thought you were going last Friday.

Quote:
I have no intention of going with an agenda. No plan or thoughts of somehow messing with them with any tricks or traps. I consider myself rational enough to observe and reflect.
Fair enough. As long as you are aware of confirmation bias, The Forer Effect and cold reading (which I'm sure you are) you should be sufficiently prepared to avoid being fooled in the ways most attendees are.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 03:28 AM   #63
Scorpion
Master Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,246
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I will attend on Friday, Oct. 11th. I have no intention of going with an agenda. No plan or thoughts of somehow messing with them with any tricks or traps. I consider myself rational enough to observe and reflect.
If you have not got a voice recorder, I would take a pad and pen, so that if you do get a message you can make notes.

Yes ! I am hoping you will get an evidential message.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 08:35 AM   #64
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,725
Yes, pad and pen, to draw cartoons of the proceedings.

Or a grocery list for after church.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 08:37 AM   #65
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 12,153
And a hankie to hide giggles.
__________________
"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 08:40 AM   #66
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,482
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
If you have not got a voice recorder, I would take a pad and pen, so that if you do get a message you can make notes.

Yes ! I am hoping you will get an evidential message.
While I don't agree with your views, this is a very sensible suggestion.
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Yes, pad and pen, to draw cartoons of the proceedings.

Or a grocery list for after church.
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
And a hankie to hide giggles.
These are not. Don't be a dick, wasapi (not that you needed to be told).
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 09:42 AM   #67
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 12,153
I am not sure people need to be told my suggestion was not sensible however on behalf of anyone who does I extend my thanks.
__________________
"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 09:56 AM   #68
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 88,364
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I will attend on Friday, Oct. 11th. I have no intention of going with an agenda. No plan or thoughts of somehow messing with them with any tricks or traps. I consider myself rational enough to observe and reflect.
Just out of curiosity it would be nice if you could record it.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 10:46 AM   #69
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,984
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Just out of curiosity it would be nice if you could record it.
Seconded, plus having a recording makes counting the misses as well as the hits much easier.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 10:50 AM   #70
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,984
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I am not sure people need to be told my suggestion was not sensible however on behalf of anyone who does I extend my thanks.
I thought it was quite good advice.


Also if they they do the whole I'm getting a "B", or it could be an "E", or possibly an "F" bit, it's considered rude to shout "That's Blockbusters".
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 02:40 PM   #71
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,693
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I thought it was quite good advice.


Also if they they do the whole I'm getting a "B", or it could be an "E", or possibly an "F" bit, it's considered rude to shout "That's Blockbusters".

Yes me too. I can imagine the urge to giggle would be involuntary, and having a hankie to hide your mirth, would save embarrassment for you and the medium.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 02:53 PM   #72
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,730
I do have a tendency to roll my eyes a lot, which is difficult to hide. However, and again, I am attending this in a 'blank-slate' style.

If I am really attempting to get a feel for it, then I don't want to do it with any agenda. To go into something sporting a biased, judgmental attitude is not what I want. I am going for the experience, not to prove anything to myself or anyone else. A tape recorder seems fair enough, for memory, which is often a challenge for me.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 03:12 PM   #73
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,693
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I do have a tendency to roll my eyes a lot, which is difficult to hide. However, and again, I am attending this in a 'blank-slate' style.

If I am really attempting to get a feel for it, then I don't want to do it with any agenda. To go into something sporting a biased, judgmental attitude is not what I want. I am going for the experience, not to prove anything to myself or anyone else. A tape recorder seems fair enough, for memory, which is often a challenge for me.

This may be a challenge given you have knowledge of mediums being exposed before. I would be interested to know what the ratio of men and women in attendance is. I have the impression this type of woo appeals more to women than men.

I wonder if your friend (who resembles a fairy), would tell the medium/mediums about your intention to attend, and if they may have the opportunity to milk her for information about yourself. You must be aware of this possibility.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th October 2019, 03:29 PM   #74
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,984
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
This may be a challenge given you have knowledge of mediums being exposed before. I would be interested to know what the ratio of men and women in attendance is. I have the impression this type of woo appeals more to women than men.

I wonder if your friend (who resembles a fairy), would tell the medium/mediums about your intention to attend, and if they may have the opportunity to milk her for information about yourself. You must be aware of this possibility.
Yes I suggested this earlier, who knows what wasapi's neighbour may have innocently mentioned about the nice lady next door who she has been inviting to attend?
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 10:05 AM   #75
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,041
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
While I don't agree with your views, this is a very sensible suggestion.
Agreed. Scorpion gives some useful advice in how to engage. Yes, we all disagree with Scorpion on many things. But if we did so categorically, that would be unskeptical. Agreeing with someone when he says something agreeable is the evidence-driven approach. You can't expect any of your criticism to be very credible if you answer something praiseworthy with criticism just to adhere ad formam.

One bit of caution on the audio recorder, though. Wasapi should make sure it's okay in her jurisdiction to record conversations. In some jurisdictions it's an invasion of privacy unless both parties consent to the recording. I agree it's a great idea, though, from the point of view of why she's going. An impartial record of whatever engagement may arise is quite valuable.

Quote:
Don't be a dick, wasapi (not that you needed to be told).
Also agreed, on both points. I have experience visiting lots of different religions in my secondary capacity as a musician. Granted I'm not quite the same as a guest, but many of the same lessons would apply. Overall, if one behave as a guest in their house, and the hosts reciprocate, anything that's superficially awkward shouldn't be a problem. I can giggle and snort all I want on my own time, but if I'm being paid to make someone's Easter or Handfasting rock, it's unprofessional of me to let my atheism intrude that far.

They'll know they're being observed by an outside party. If that party is appropriately congenial, they'll be more inclined to give an unvarnished experience.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 10:14 AM   #76
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,730
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Yes I suggested this earlier, who knows what wasapi's neighbour may have innocently mentioned about the nice lady next door who she has been inviting to attend?
She has never attended one. Ever.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 10:43 AM   #77
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,984
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
She has never attended one. Ever.

My bad, I'd assumed it was her church you were visiting (I think others thought likewise). So does she know people there or is it a 'pick one out of the phone book' approach or something else?
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 10:44 AM   #78
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,984
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Hang on a moment, I need a new printer and that's in the approved list.
Out of interest, can you check the list for me? My PS4 is getting a bit noisy so a Pro would be nice...
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th October 2019, 05:19 PM   #79
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 64,605
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
One bit of caution on the audio recorder, though. Wasapi should make sure it's okay in her jurisdiction to record conversations. In some jurisdictions it's an invasion of privacy unless both parties consent to the recording. I agree it's a great idea, though, from the point of view of why she's going. An impartial record of whatever engagement may arise is quite valuable.
I have been assured by friends who are lawyers with the Family Court that it is not legal to record someone without their knowledge.

It was one of those things that I heard many years ago, forgot the source of, and always assumed was true, that it was legal to record a conversation between two people as long as at least one of them was aware that it was happening. I casually mentioned this while in my lawyer friends' company once and they jumped straight down my throat.

Of course, this applies to my local jurisdiction. You should check.
__________________
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th October 2019, 12:39 AM   #80
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 7,104
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I have been assured by friends who are lawyers with the Family Court that it is not legal to record someone without their knowledge.

It was one of those things that I heard many years ago, forgot the source of, and always assumed was true, that it was legal to record a conversation between two people as long as at least one of them was aware that it was happening. I casually mentioned this while in my lawyer friends' company once and they jumped straight down my throat.

Of course, this applies to my local jurisdiction. You should check.
Recording a conversation in secret is not a criminal offence and is not prohibited in the UK. As long as the recording is for personal use you don't need to obtain consent or let the other person know. Journalists often record conversations in secret that they then publish without facing any legal problems.

Things change if the matter is addressed with a claim for damages or if the recordings have been shared without the consent of the participants. Even worse, if the recording is sold to third parties or released in public without the consent of the participants then this could be considered a criminal offence.

From here.

Don't know where wasapi hails from but I suspect it's not the UK.

Last edited by bluesjnr; 9th October 2019 at 12:41 AM.
bluesjnr is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:45 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.