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Tags celebrity incidents , celebrity opinions , Ellen Degeneres , George W. Bush

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Old 9th October 2019, 10:06 AM   #121
theprestige
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes, ignoring the concerns of persecuted minorities is definitely the way to go.
Ellen Degeneres is literally a member of a persecuted minority. We shouldn't ignore her views, just because they're at odds with some other members of that community.

Quote:
I can't think of a single problem that can't be solved by simply pretending it doesn't exist.
On the other hand, I can think of plenty of problems that only exist in people's heads, or are serious problems only in people's heads.
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:16 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SOme of the attitudes in this thread sum up everything I do not like about the dogmatic Left in this country...which, surprise, are the same things I do not like about the dogmatic Right.
In fact that people with differing political opinions seem to automatically hate each other is what could destroy democracy in this country. Democracy depends on Compromise, and compromise with somebody you think is evil is hard.

This tired old doggerel again?

One side wants end my existence. The other side is perfectly happy to support my existence. What's the compromise here? I can partly exist? I can exist but am not permitted to be employed or get healthcare? What is the compromise that results in my existence as an equal member of humanity?

Little hint, we already tried compromise, and it failed, because it compromising on these principles is nothing more than oppression. Compromise resulted in African-Americans being "3/5ths persons". Compromise got rid of slavery, but gave us Jim Crow and Sundown laws. Compromise gave us segregation and "separate but equal", which was demonstrably anything but equal.

Compromise is for pizza and public parks. Compromise is not for civil rights.
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:19 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
If conservatives are wondering what happened to civility, they should check the shallow grave they left its body in.

That's getting nominated.

"Civility" has never been anything other than a dismissal tactic; a hand-wave to avoid having to acknowledge the problem. And a profoundly hypocritical one at that, given the glaring and total lack of civility conservatives have ever shown to their opponents.
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:25 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
But maybe they started cordially and became friends. Since you do not know how they interact or what discussions they have had, kind of tough to make judgments. If we can never interact and learn something, makes it a lot harder to make progress.

Show me where GW has ever repudiated or modified his stance on LGTBQ rights. Show me where he has apologized for pushing anti-marriage legislation, or acknowledged his deception with regards to the false justifications for the war. Or indeed where he's ever expressed the slightest bit of remorse or acceptance of error over either.

Doesn't seem to be working.

Quote:
Instead of complaining about her friendship, ask her how she is using it to help change things for the better in the LGBTQ community. Ask her how this can be used to change perceptions and keep the stupidity that is before the SC from happening.

Amazing what you miss when you stick your fingers in your ears, since this has already been done. Hence her wishy-washy evasive response about "different beliefs".
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:25 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ellen Degeneres is literally a member of a persecuted minority. We shouldn't ignore her views, just because they're at odds with some other members of that community.
What view has she expressed that's being ignored?

Quote:
On the other hand, I can think of plenty of problems that only exist in people's heads, or are serious problems only in people's heads.
Coming from someone who tirelessly laments the perceived persecution of conservatives, I find this statement laughable.
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:31 AM   #126
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lol, let the hate consume some of you
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:34 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
( I'll ignore the obvious fact of being able to afford skybox tickets to an NFL game).
While both likely could afford such tickets, the tickets they actually had were not for sale and they did not pay for them. They were guests of the family that owns the team and the stadium (even though the stadium was paid for largely by the city of Arlington).

True wealth is not renting out a luxury box at an NFL game, true wealth is having the taxpayers of a city build you a stadium and build you a personal luxury box so that you can then invite former presidents and TV stars to hang out in your welfare lounge.
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:50 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
While both likely could afford such tickets, the tickets they actually had were not for sale and they did not pay for them. They were guests of the family that owns the team and the stadium (even though the stadium was paid for largely by the city of Arlington).

True wealth is not renting out a luxury box at an NFL game, true wealth is having the taxpayers of a city build you a stadium and build you a personal luxury box so that you can then invite former presidents and TV stars to hang out in your welfare lounge.
On that note, I saw an interesting perspective point on what being a billionaire means:

If you earned $5000 every single day since Christopher Columbus set sail, you would still not have a billion dollars. That's sobering.
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Old 9th October 2019, 11:01 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I haven't read the thread in it's entirety because I really can't be bothered.

I would like to say that I hope my life never gets to the point where I give a flying **** what celebrities\politicians spend time together. They shouldn't have to explain anything.

Perhaps it's the fact I'm an *******, but if I were in their shoes I'd simply say "don't worry about it". That's it.

I really don't understand why "it's none of your ******* business" isn't used more often.
And if she had left it at that, I'd have ignored the thread entirely. But instead, it's all about how we should just "look past our disagreements" as though there's no difference between a 40% vs. 35% top marginal income tax rate, and whether or not it's good for adults to have sex with children.
No, if you think it's good to rape kids, I'm not your friend, and I don't appreciate people telling me that I should just look past it.

GWB (at the behest of one Karl Rove) attempted to ban marriage equality to play to my supposed homophobia. I don't appreciate that sort of assumption being made about me. Nor am I friends with people that want to strip rights from others - I know full well that blacks and jews end up in their sights eventually. As Chris Rock said, that train's always on time. Also, sorry, I never understood why I should hate LGBTQ folks to begin with. Let people live their lives, damn.

"By kind to everyone." Um, tell your boy W that, okay?
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Old 9th October 2019, 11:23 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The difference is between being a white ally of black activists and being a black activist yourself.

In your analogy, Ellen Degeneres isn't the white moderate, she's the black activist.
No she isn't an activist, she is the racists token black friend.
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Old 9th October 2019, 11:24 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Little hint, we already tried compromise, and it failed, because it compromising on these principles is nothing more than oppression. Compromise resulted in African-Americans being "3/5ths persons". Compromise got rid of slavery, but gave us Jim Crow and Sundown laws. Compromise gave us segregation and "separate but equal", which was demonstrably anything but equal.
Yep a true list of american success stories, things we apparently should be proud of.
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:20 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
This tired old doggerel again?

One side wants end my existence. The other side is perfectly happy to support my existence. What's the compromise here? I can partly exist? I can exist but am not permitted to be employed or get healthcare? What is the compromise that results in my existence as an equal member of humanity?

Little hint, we already tried compromise, and it failed, because it compromising on these principles is nothing more than oppression. Compromise resulted in African-Americans being "3/5ths persons". Compromise got rid of slavery, but gave us Jim Crow and Sundown laws. Compromise gave us segregation and "separate but equal", which was demonstrably anything but equal.

Compromise is for pizza and public parks. Compromise is not for civil rights.

I'll bite

What specific side wants to end your existence? And what specific side doesn't?
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:39 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'll bite

What specific side wants to end your existence? And what specific side doesn't?
Given the right's support for conversion therapy, and the dismissal of all LGBTQ rights, including marriage, I'd say that one.
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:42 PM   #134
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Here's an interesting take on the issue that I just encountered on Facebook:

Quote:
Mary Katherine Backstrom

Sit down, my loves. We need to have a chat.

This will take about five minutes, but it’s time that we all have, or we wouldn’t be on Facebook right now.

So get comfy, cause this is gonna be uncomfy for a second. But that’s what hard truth does.

*breathe*

Okay, let’s go.

If you’ve been following me for any amount of time, you know that kindness is basically my life’s anthem.

I celebrate, encourage, and proclaim this tenant on a daily basis. It is pure, good, and WORLD CHANGING.

So this week, when two stories of incredible kindness emerged from the news, captured our collective hearts, and went gang busters viral...

I was not surprised. 100%, I understand why we ate them up.

In the face of all the sour news we are forced to consume on a regular basis, two stories on superhuman kindness tastes like candy.

BUT.

When you share these stories (as I have) with praise hands or simply the word “THIS!”—you are missing (or willfully ignoring) the incredible weight and friction behind each image.

It is nice to imagine, isn’t it, a world in which we reconcile with “the other side” with hugs and laughter?

It’s nice to picture an America in which we step away from “our differences” and see one another as human beings, longing to be loved?

It’s beautiful, no doubt, to see people like Ellen and Brandt Jean boldly offering love to people who are utterly undeserving.

Oh, I’m sorry.

Did that word rub you the wrong way?

Okay, then. Let’s read it again:

UNDESERVING.

That is the difference between kindness and grace. What these two stories have in common is a profound power disparity, and this is something being ignored by every news outlet that’s publishing these images.

Let’s be honest. Ellen’s friendship with George W Bush requires very little from the former president. She is lovable and good. She also happens to be gay.

The fact that she is able to perpetually show grace to someone who has voted to strip her of her right to work, adopt, and marry is a testament to HER CHARACTER.

It’s a testament to her ability to forgive and her ability to be gracious—and sadly, to the fact that LGBTQ persons often have to choose to live alongside and even LOVE people who, in many ways, treat them as less than human.

Please don’t get mad and close this post. If this stings, then it’s even more important for you to hear. To keep reading. To digest and pray over.

Because, my God, Brandt Jean.

He broke my brain this week with an act of grace so powerful that I still cannot fathom the richness of his faith or the strong places in his soul from which he discovered such forgiveness.

We jumped on that story like ants on a pie, didn’t we?

Because it’s something what we want SO BADLY.

A redemptive story. A reconciled world.

A place where we can forgive all wrongs and love with abandon and start over clean.

It’s what I want to, too.

But it’s not the responsibility of black men and women to give that to us.

Not when research and facts point to unjust incarceration rates for black Americans. Not when the facts show that if a black man had pulled that trigger on a white woman eating ice cream on her own couch.

If that had happened, you know dang well that ten years and a hug would never have been a viral headline.

Was it grace? Was it kindness?

Hell yes, it was.

But we don’t get to hold it up as a standard for everyone to follow. Absolutely not.

Because that is a gross miscarriage of these message in these beautiful stories.

LISTEN 👏 TO 👏 ME 👏

When marginalized people offer forgiveness and kindness, it goes viral because IT IS SHOCKING AND UNDESERVED.

When we see Ellen’s friendship with George W Bush, we are appalled because, let’s be honest, she had to overcome quite a bit of personal and political obstacles to love that man. I didn’t say he wasn’t lovable. I said Ellen is a superhuman, and she

SHOULDNT HAVE TO BE.

When Brandt Jean hugged his brothers killer, and gave her forgiveness from the bottom of his pure heart, that was shocking. Because it was undeserved. If you think his brothers murderer was OWED that grace, then you don’t understand the meaning of the word. I didn’t say what he did was wrong. I didn’t say it wasn’t good or pure.

I’m saying he SHOULDNT HAVE TO DO IT.

When we lift these stories up as standards to meet, we fail to recognize how much pain and suffering these people had to swallow to share their kindness with an undeserving recipient.

When we hail Ellen as the “righteous gay person” because she is able to accept political differences in a friend, we are nudging forward the idea that all LGBTQ people should suck it up and do the same.

Grace is a powerful thing. It is WORLD CHANGING.

But the onus shouldn’t be on the marginalized to cough up enough grace to live in peace with the rest of us.

These stories shouldn’t invoke the reactions they are getting from the rest of us.

We shouldn’t applaud and hit reshare and say “YES! The world needs more of this!”

On the contrary, my friends.

These stories should make us uncomfortable.

These stories should make us ask ourselves:

WHY are we so shocked that Brandt Jean was able to forgive? WHY are we so impressed that Ellen was able to love?

The truth is, we already know the answer.

These stories point to deep injustices that we all SO BADLY want to go away.

But let’s not demand that our marginalized friends do that work. They shouldn’t have to live this way.

If the world is going to change, that’s on the rest of us. Those of us with privilege. Those of us whose actual human rights aren’t up for argument at the Supreme Court tomorrow.

Ellen and Brandt Jean are heroes, indeed. They are super human examples kindness, love, and grace.

But they shouldn’t have to be.

And that’s my entire point, friends.

They shouldn’t have to be.

I don't know that I'd be that charitable toward Ellen, but Ms. Backstrom makes a good point. I do know that I'm not willing to be that charitable toward Bush or the GOP until they demonstrate that they have changed their attitudes toward LGBTQs and racial minorities; and anyone demanding that I do so is part of the problem and upholding the oppressive status quo.
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:46 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Given the right's support for conversion therapy, and the dismissal of all LGBTQ rights, including marriage, I'd say that one.
Last time I checked over 25% of democrats were against gay marriage and 45% of republicans were in favour of it.

Is gross generalisation and pretending political group think a US thing, or just a left thing?

Kind of explains the whole thread really.
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:54 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Last time I checked over 25% of democrats were against gay marriage and 45% of republicans were in favour of it.
Awesome! Pointless statement, but awesome! Let me know once that number for the GOP is >50% and we can change it. Until then, the majority still is against while the minority is for, so generalizing isn't the issue.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Is gross generalisation and pretending political group think a US thing, or just a left thing?

Kind of explains the whole thread really.
I don't know, is semantic quibbling over dumb **** like this a cullennz thing or is it a full NZ thing?

Are Democrats trying to reverse gay marriage by passing local laws in the name of religious freedoms or is that the right? Hint: It's the ******* right.

Has it been a Republican or Democrat President that has **** on transgender troops? Hint: It's a ******* Republican.

We can do this all day because the list goes on, but to imply that instead of saying "GOP" or "Democrat" we have to list each and every politician or person is ridiculously asinine. You even own goaled by showing that the bulk of the GOP is against (without sourcing anything).

But...here you go. Take your internet points and get out of here you little scamp. I'm giving you 3.
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Last edited by plague311; 9th October 2019 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:04 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Awesome! Pointless statement, but awesome! Let me know once that number for the GOP is >50% and we can change it. Until then, the majority still is against while the minority is for, so generalizing isn't the issue.



I don't know, is semantic quibbling over dumb **** like this a cullennz thing or is it a full NZ thing?

Are Democrats trying to reverse gay marriage by passing local laws in the name of religious freedoms or is that the right? Hint: It's the ******* right.

Has it been a Republican or Democrat President that has **** on transgender troops? Hint: It's a ******* Republican.

We can do this all day because the list goes on, but to imply that instead of saying "GOP" or "Democrat" we have to list each and every politician or person is ridiculously asinine. You even own goaled by showing that the bulk of the GOP is against (without sourcing anything).

But...here you go. Take your internet points and get out of here you little scamp. I'm giving you 3.
I think you might be confusing politicians with voters
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:12 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think you might be confusing politicians with voters
On the contrary, plague311 demonstrated the very important distinction between the two.
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:12 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Awesome! Pointless statement, but awesome! Let me know once that number for the GOP is >50% and we can change it. Until then, the majority still is against while the minority is for, so generalizing isn't the issue.

It's also important to note how much of that supposed 45% are the Log Cabin contingent, who are happy enough to screw over other LGBTQs in order to maintain their upper-class white privilege.
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:16 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think you might be confusing politicians with voters
The former is an effect of the latter. If you had some other point to make here, I missed it.
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:20 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
It's also important to note how much of that supposed 45% are the Log Cabin contingent, who are happy enough to screw over other LGBTQs in order to maintain their upper-class white privilege.
I have no idea what a "log cabin contingent" is, but in what way does your average republican voter in the 45% "screw over other LGBTQs"?

Like generally?

Like day to day, or monthly
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:20 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'll bite

What specific side wants to end your existence? And what specific side doesn't?
The one with the people who want all LGBTQ people put to death? Who share the stage with senior politicians?
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:22 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The former is an effect of the latter. If you had some other point to make here, I missed it.
No

The former some times leans to the majority of the laters popular opinions in polls on certain policy if it means getting elected.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2019, 01:27 PM   #144
plague311
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
No

The former some times leans to the majority of the laters popular opinions in polls on certain policy if it means getting elected.
Jesus Christ, really?

Alright, 5 more internet points, but that's all you're getting. Much like my *****, I have only so many.

It should be noted though, you're generalizing here more than I am, but I'm done arguing about it. It's dumb, and I'm above it.
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Old 9th October 2019, 02:01 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
The one with the people who want all LGBTQ people put to death? Who share the stage with senior politicians?
The entire right want to put LGBTQ people to death.

Do we add the 25% of democrat voters?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2019, 02:04 PM   #146
cullennz
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Jesus Christ, really?

Alright, 5 more internet points, but that's all you're getting. Much like my *****, I have only so many.

It should be noted though, you're generalizing here more than I am, but I'm done arguing about it. It's dumb, and I'm above it.
You claimed politicians have an effect on how voters public opinions, when it has been the other way round since elections were invented.

But feel free to run away
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th October 2019, 04:03 PM   #147
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Has GWB made any public statements supporting or opposing same sex marriage since his presidency? At the time of his proposal, it seems like same sex marriage was opposed by majorities in both parties. 15 years later, it's hard to know if his stance has changed and if the conversation was ever touched on by the two.

Overall it doesn't seem like his record on LGBTQ issues is terrible given the time he was president and the public view on such issues. To point to it as unrepentant evil with comparisons to nazis/pedos seems a bit extreme, but maybe I misread those things being in regards to other things done during his presidency and not specific to LGBTQ.
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Old 9th October 2019, 04:22 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
One side wants end my existence.
Do you really believe that?
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Old 9th October 2019, 04:35 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You claimed politicians have an effect on how voters public opinions, when it has been the other way round since elections were invented.

But feel free to run away
If they don't, then why do they campaign before elections? How come there has been a rise in hate crimes since someone preaching hate has taken office? Of course politicians affect public opinion, and vice versa. It's a constant tug of war.
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Old 9th October 2019, 04:37 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Has GWB made any public statements supporting or opposing same sex marriage since his presidency? At the time of his proposal, it seems like same sex marriage was opposed by majorities in both parties. 15 years later, it's hard to know if his stance has changed and if the conversation was ever touched on by the two.

Overall it doesn't seem like his record on LGBTQ issues is terrible given the time he was president and the public view on such issues. To point to it as unrepentant evil with comparisons to nazis/pedos seems a bit extreme, but maybe I misread those things being in regards to other things done during his presidency and not specific to LGBTQ.
Even Hillary Clinton opposed gay marriage during Bush's presidency. This principled stand against Degeneres would make a lot more sense if it were actually principled.
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Old 9th October 2019, 04:41 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Even Hillary Clinton opposed gay marriage during Bush's presidency. This principled stand against Degeneres would make a lot more sense if it were actually principled.
A pity you don't take the same stance on whataboutism that you do for analogy.
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Old 9th October 2019, 04:56 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A pity you don't take the same stance on whataboutism that you do for analogy.
Pointing out cherry picking, hypocrisy, and special pleading is not the same as whataboutism.

A position that condemns Bush but not Clinton on this issue is hypocritical AF, and you should be calling that out right alongside me.

Also, good job failing to argue by analogy. I'll add this Q.E.D. to my collection.
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Old 9th October 2019, 05:09 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Pointing out cherry picking, hypocrisy, and special pleading is not the same as whataboutism.

A position that condemns Bush but not Clinton on this issue is hypocritical AF, and you should be calling that out right alongside me.

Also, good job failing to argue by analogy. I'll add this Q.E.D. to my collection.
You're the one who brought up Hillary Clinton for some reason. Were we supposed to anticipate her relevance to a story about W and Ellen being friends, so we could denounce her?
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Old 9th October 2019, 05:14 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You're the one who brought up Hillary Clinton for some reason. Were we supposed to anticipate her relevance to a story about W and Ellen being friends, so we could denounce her?
I'm sorry you're having trouble following the conversation. Try to find someone other than me to help you with that.
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Old 9th October 2019, 05:30 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Has GWB made any public statements supporting or opposing same sex marriage since his presidency? At the time of his proposal, it seems like same sex marriage was opposed by majorities in both parties. 15 years later, it's hard to know if his stance has changed and if the conversation was ever touched on by the two.
Given that he's said nothing on the subject, I assume he hasn't. And there's also the Iraq war, ignoring warnings about Al Qaida (a lot of republicans screwed this one up), the apologetics for torture, his failure to protect civil rights (he's the only republican president in my life that didn't seem to personally hate any non-white group, I'll give him that, but he brought in hostile people to both the DoJ and the Supreme Court) and so forth.
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Old 9th October 2019, 05:30 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Do you really believe that?

I have ever reason to believe that; and so would you if you weren't spending most of your life living under a rock, and actually paid attention to the news.

Most recent examples include numerous attempts to enact legislation seeking to do that very thing. The profound right-wing support for Conversion Therapy programs; "Religious Freedom" legislation whose sole purpose is to enable legal discrimination against LGBTQs; the numerous attempts, successful and otherwise, to enact "Bathroom Bills" targeting transgender people, like North Carolina's HB2; Trump's banning transgender people serving in the military; Trump's January 2017 rescinding of the Obama administration's protections for transgendered students; it's perfectly legal in many states to discriminate against LGBTQ people in housing, employment, and healthare; and so on and so on.

Not to mention the constant flood of televised and social media promulgated anti-LGBTQ propaganda and outright libel from right-wing politicians, pundits, and preachers.

Here's a short list of legislation attempts and successes: https://www.aclu.org/legislation-aff...across-country

The Trump administration has also spent the last two and a half years packing as many hardline conservative justices into the federal courts as they possibly could, including the Supreme Court, for the reason of overturning civil rights for LGBTQs, abortion rights, and worker rights.

Right this very moment, there is a case up in front of the US Supreme Court to decide whether Civil Rights legislation even applies to LGBTQ people at all.

Supreme Court Considers Whether Civil Rights Act Protects L.G.B.T. Workers

Right now, with the strong conservative leaning of the court, it's fairly clear that the decision is going to come down in favour of discrimination, and against equality. Gorsuch is vacillating a bit at the moment, putting on a dog-and-pony show of trying to appear impartial; but it's pretty clear that when it comes down to the final vote, he'll vote along ideological lines like the rest of them, as he always does.

Meanwhile, violence against LGBTQs is still rising year over year, as it has since Trump took office, and murders of transgender people continues to set new records every year.
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Old 9th October 2019, 05:32 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You're the one who brought up Hillary Clinton for some reason. Were we supposed to anticipate her relevance to a story about W and Ellen being friends, so we could denounce her?

Anyone who wasn't living under a rock during the Clinton administration or the last presidential election primaries would have heard plenty of outcry against the Clintons for their opposition to gay marriage, and Hillary's embracing of TERFs.

Just more right-wing trolling and pathetic whataboutism.
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
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Old 9th October 2019, 07:06 PM   #158
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:07 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post

Right this very moment, there is a case up in front of the US Supreme Court to decide whether Civil Rights legislation even applies to LGBTQ people at all.

Supreme Court Considers Whether Civil Rights Act Protects L.G.B.T. Workers

Right now, with the strong conservative leaning of the court, it's fairly clear that the decision is going to come down in favour of discrimination, and against equality. Gorsuch is vacillating a bit at the moment, putting on a dog-and-pony show of trying to appear impartial; but it's pretty clear that when it comes down to the final vote, he'll vote along ideological lines like the rest of them, as he always does.

Meanwhile, violence against LGBTQs is still rising year over year, as it has since Trump took office, and murders of transgender people continues to set new records every year.
As a heuristic, the conservative justices are probably more in line With the 1964 Congress than the liberal justices. To the extent interpretation is reaching the conclusion of 1964 thought, they might be more likely to get the correct answer.
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:16 PM   #160
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I can emphasize with her a bit. I, myself, happen to be friends with a few folks with whom I don't share very much in common, politically, including a small number of Trump supporters.

Friendship is friendship, you know.
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