3 girls suspended from school after posting "there's a rapist" notes

I heard a woman describe the feeling of being around men once:

'Imagine you are surrounded by a group of NFL linemen, most of whom want to **** you.'

I mean, damn, that's sobering. Guys forget sometimes that women can feel like they would be easily overpowered by a larger man, and that the 'innocent flirting' can be endless, and intimidating, to her.
 
Thermal said:
I heard a woman describe the feeling of being around men once:

'Imagine you are surrounded by a group of NFL linemen, most of whom want to **** you.'

I mean, damn, that's sobering. Guys forget sometimes that women can feel like they would be easily overpowered by a larger man, and that the 'innocent flirting' can be endless, and intimidating, to her.
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I simply cannot give that description any credence at all, it is the alarmist view of a paranoid.

I would steer a five mile berth around any woman who described her experience of men thusly and would make every effort not be in her company. What a pill.

It's not sobering to me, it's sad that this persons obvious misandry escaped you and went unchallenged.
 
luchog said:
If you're going to parrot debunked debunked right-wing talking points, you shouldn't be surprised to be lumped in with them.
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I'm sorry, what specifically was "debunked right-wing talking points"?

That if you are aware, or strongly suspect, someone of having been a victim of rape and that this is so worrying that you feel a need to warn people about it; then you should probably go to the police as a first resort, especially if you know the alleged rapist? That even if they are unlikely to be able to prosecute someone because of a lack of evidence, informing the police is still often a good idea?

That if someone engages in behavior that could quite easily be interpreted as harassment or bullying, they shouldn't be shocked if it's treated as such?

Some of the incidents were, in fact, reported to the police, which has already been explained in detail by others. Don't know why you ignored that particular piece of the thread.
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Actually very little if anything has been reported in detail about how the police and school have handled these allegations. I realize that the police and school are quite likely not allowed to openly discuss these matters because of privacy and confidentiality laws prevent them.

This is one of the reasons why i find it highly questionable that some people take public statements made after the fact by the persons who were expelled at face value. It's highly unbalanced.

And myself and others have repeatedly pointed out why reporting rape and sexual harassment incidents like this to the police is as likely as not to result in further trauma to the victim and dismissal of the incident by authorities. Things do not work here the way they work where you are.
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No it works like that here in Sweden too. Only about 30-15% of rapes that are reported to the police have, in recent years, lead both to charges being filed against a person in court and them subsequently being found guilty after a trial. Not reporting it to the police accomplishes nothing, even in principle.

Again, i respect that many people don't want to report being the victim of a serious personal crime like rape, or even cooperate with a criminal investigation if someone else does, because they find it too traumatizing. Yet the fact remains that, depending on the specific nature of the crime, a refusal to engage with the criminal justice system could very likely endanger the well-being of others. This is why it's of significant importance that victims are encourage to report it and that they are treated with the respect they deserve.

I find it very plausible that one or more staff at the school acted in a manner that was highly unprofessional, even to the point of it being considered criminal professional misconduct. It's also quite plausible that the school, as an institution, has failed to treat allegations of harassment against students seriously and thus failed in its duty to ensure a safe and secure environment for its students.

Yet i fail to see how their "post-it note campaign" would do anything to rectify this at all. Surely they could take their complaints to the relevant public authorities that are supposed to regulate schools?
 
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Thermal said:
Confirmation bias FTW.



No, it was vaguely alluded to in generalities. We have no idea what exactly was reported, by how many students, by how many alleged perpetrators, or anything much at all.



The way they work here is based on evidence. Since we know dead zero about what was actually accused, or by who, or what the accused has to say, we have zero evidence to evaluate the accusations. Unless we are running with the Accused Must Be Guilty Of Whatever He Is Accused Of narrative. But we wouldn't do that, would we?
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No we shouldn’t. But, as there was no accused person in the warnings circulated, we don’t have to worry about that at all.
 
bluesjnr said:
I simply cannot give that description any credence at all, it is the alarmist view of a paranoid.

I would steer a five mile berth around any woman who described her experience of men thusly and would make every effort not be in her company. What a pill.

It's not sobering to me, it's sad that this persons obvious misandry escaped you and went unchallenged.
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This is how you end up with #metoo, gents.
 
Arcade22 said:
Yet the fact remains that, depending on the specific nature of the crime, a refusal to engage with the criminal justice system could very likely endanger the well-being of others. This is why it's of significant importance that victims are encourage to report it and that they are treated with the respect they deserve.
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As a counterpoint, it's also of significant importance that authorities be sensitised and incentivised to take these reports seriously. Otherwise it's for naught.
 
Arcade22 said:
No it works like that here in Sweden too. Only about 30-15% of rapes that are reported to the police have, in recent years, lead both to charges being filed against a person in court and them subsequently being found guilty after a trial. Not reporting it to the police accomplishes nothing, even in principle.
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Do Swedish police routinely ignore, harass, or threaten rape victims who report rape?

Again, i respect that many people don't want to report being the victim of a serious personal crime like rape, or even cooperate with a criminal investigation if someone else does, because they find it too traumatizing. Yet the fact remains that, depending on the specific nature of the crime, a refusal to engage with the criminal justice system could very likely endanger the well-being of others. This is why it's of significant importance that victims are encourage to report it and that they are treated with the respect they deserve.
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You're still ignoring what is being said. Rape and harassment victims who report their rape and harassment to police are further traumatized by the police; who then do nothing to investigate the reports of rape or harassment. Police in the US routinely refuse to investigate reports, will often engage in victim blaming, and in a few cases have gone on themselves to further victimize the women by ridiculing them, gaslighting them, or treating them as if they are mentally ill or falsely reporting, without doing any actual investigation. There are literally thousands of "rape kits" (a set of DNA and other evidence gathered from rape victims) which are sitting untested all over the country at this time, because the authorities simply cannot be bothered to assign sufficient resources to process them.

Victims are not even remotely treated with the respect they deserve in a huge percentage of cases; which is why so few of them bother to report it to police.

You really don't understand how the system works here.
 
johnny karate said:
You were immediately dismissive of what that woman was trying to say, and instead moved right to being condescending and insulting.
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What she is describing, which is in itself condescending and insulting ironically (though you missed that due to blinding yourself with your own signalling), does not fit with the real world and should not be taken at face value.

As it currently stands, it is the paranoid musing of a misandrist to view all men as NFL sized, wanna be Lotharios who lust after her.

If you identify with what she's describing, if that sounds like you, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

On the other hand, I'm quite happy to accept that there must be occasions when a woman feels uncomfortable around certain groups of men but, if Thermals description is accurate, ....... all men?

Congratulations, you're part of the problem.
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What's that? What problem am I part of?

I suggest you be very careful here.
 
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bluesjnr said:
I would steer a five mile berth around any woman who described her experience of men thusly and would make every effort not be in her company. What a pill.
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Sounds like the tactic works to some degree then. That sounds like a success.

bluesjnr said:
What's that? What problem am I part of?

I suggest you be very careful here.
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Or what? You'll think less of them?

You are misreading what the woman was trying to convey on a very basic level by making unfounded assumptions.
 
luchog said:
Do Swedish police routinely ignore, harass, or threaten rape victims who report rape?




You're still ignoring what is being said. Rape and harassment victims who report their rape and harassment to police are further traumatized by the police; who then do nothing to investigate the reports of rape or harassment. Police in the US routinely refuse to investigate reports, will often engage in victim blaming, and in a few cases have gone on themselves to further victimize the women by ridiculing them, gaslighting them, or treating them as if they are mentally ill or falsely reporting, without doing any actual investigation. There are literally thousands of "rape kits" (a set of DNA and other evidence gathered from rape victims) which are sitting untested all over the country at this time, because the authorities simply cannot be bothered to assign sufficient resources to process them.

Victims are not even remotely treated with the respect they deserve in a huge percentage of cases; which is why so few of them bother to report it to police.

You really don't understand how the system works here.
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I can't imagine where you got your information. Information you speak of with such certainty. Really, I'm interested.

Having worked at a Sexual Assault Crisis Center for a few years, it already tells me you don't know what you are talking about. Not a clue.

I worked there for many years, and was frequently called at odd hours by LE to come help and to talk to the victim, and be with them whenever law enforcement and I held their hands while they were having the invasive evidence exam. And, it was mandatory that I was always with the victims if they were speaking to a member of law enforcement.

The women and men victims were always treated with respect, by everyone, from medics, advocates, crisis managers - the victim is treated with dignity.

Now, again, can you tell us what supports your - statements?
 
wasapi said:
I can't imagine where you got your information. Information you speak of with such certainty. Really, I'm interested.

Having worked at a Sexual Assault Crisis Center for a few years, it already tells me you don't know what you are talking about. Not a clue.

I worked there for many years, and was frequently called at odd hours by LE to come help and to talk to the victim, and be with them whenever law enforcement and I held their hands while they were having the invasive evidence exam. And, it was mandatory that I was always with the victims if they were speaking to a member of law enforcement.

The women and men victims were always treated with respect, by everyone, from medics, advocates, crisis managers - the victim is treated with dignity.

Now, again, can you tell us what supports your - statements?
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The experience of the girl at the high school indicates that, though there are good responses to complaints of sexual response, there are bad ones as well. If the reports of rape kits being untested is true then there is still a serious problem with processing reports of rape.
 
bluesjnr said:
Don't judge me by your own, clearly low, standards and spare me the lecture about how I behave in public.
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Which low standards are you referring to?
Certainly I’ve had to lower my expectations of a number of posters’ attitudes to sexual harassment, but interested in what standards in particular you’re on about.

Ironically, I had changed the word “you” to “en” in that post in order to head off any “personal attack” outrage responses from the poster I was responding to. It’s not as though I posted that all men are potential rapists - just that we all can try a little harder. Some in this thread need to try a little harder than others. And no, that was not directed at you.

That’s ISF for you though, there will always be someone that will be outraged...
 
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a_unique_person said:
If the reports of rape kits being untested is true then there is still a serious problem with processing reports of rape.
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This article is 4 years old but is an example of the scope of the problem

More than 1,300 rape kits collected from sexual assault victims across the state have not been tested for DNA evidence, a state report shows, with roughly one-third of the kits having sat untested for at least five years.

Legislators and victim advocates called the results of the report -- mandated under a recently enacted state law -- a frightening representation of how authorities prioritize sex crimes in Louisiana.

"When I started seeing some of these dates (of collection), I was so overwhelmed by how ridiculous it was it took me a day or two to wrap my head around it," said New Orleans Sen. J. P. Morrell, who introduced the legislation. "When you see these dates and the explanations, it's hard to make the case that law enforcement is taking sexual assaults seriously."

Riding a national movement to house rape kit evidence into an FBI database - a movement prompted in part by a highly publicized backlog of more than 10,000 untested rape kits in Detroit -- Morrell introduced legislation signed into law last year requiring law enforcement to report their untested rape kits.

Agencies submitted data to the Louisiana State Crime Lab, which compiled the information into a report then sent to the Senate Judiciary B. Committee chaired by Morrell.

The report at last check does not include data from 128 police departments, Morrell said, an almost equally troubling number to some victims advocates.

"Thirteen hundred is a high number, but it's especially high considering the number of agencies (not) reporting back," said Ebony Tucker, executive director of the Louisiana Foundation Against Sexual Assault. "We're looking at a number that may not be adequately representative of the actual kits out there."

Of the 1,333 untested kits listed in the report, four out of every five were collected at least a year ago, while nearly 200 were collected between 1988 and 2003.

Many of the untested kits originally collected in the 1990s came from the Alexandria Police Department (96 of its 121 total untested kits are at least 10 years old) and the St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office (45 of its 61 untested kits were collected 10-plus years ago), according to the report.
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Some of the Louisiana police departments involved complained that many of the untested rape kits didn't need to be tested because the cases were either adjudicated or dropped before the kits could be tested, or charges were never even pressed. However, the only police department to provide actual numbers along those lines, New Orleans, showed that only half of their total number of untested kits could actually be accounted for by this excuse.
 
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Checkmite said:
This article is 4 years old but is an example of the scope of the problem



Some of the Louisiana police departments involved complained that many of the untested rape kits didn't need to be tested because the cases were either adjudicated or dropped before the kits could be tested, or charges were never even pressed. However, the only police department to provide actual numbers along those lines, New Orleans, showed that only half of their total number of untested kits could actually be accounted for by this excuse.
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Far out man, that is pretty bad.
 
EHocking said:
Which low standards are you referring to?
Certainly I’ve had to lower my expectations of a number of posters’ attitudes to sexual harassment, but interested in what standards in particular you’re on about.

Ironically, I had changed the word “you” to “en” in that post in order to head off any “personal attack” outrage responses from the poster I was responding to. It’s not as though I posted that all men are potential rapists - just that we all can try a little harder. Some in this thread need to try a little harder than others. And no, that was not directed at you.

That’s ISF for you though, there will always be someone that will be outraged...
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I was talking about your standards, as hinted at by yourself, the standards that were, apparently, that low that simply talking to your partner and her friends about their life experiences caused you to reassess and change the way you behaved (I naturally assumed) toward women. I also have to assume that change was required.

What the hell were you doing to them prior to your epiphany, how did you behave when out in public?

You insisted "any men here" sit down, shut up and hoped that we would experience the same epiphany. Your assumption being that "any men" are like you prior to your awakening.

I spoke to my partner who couldn't relate to being harassed or felt up on a "practically" daily basis. I can't relate to that claimed statistic as a man but I would guess that, if the frequency of such harassment was as stated, I would see it daily. I have never in my life seen a woman being felt up in public against her will and the few examples of harassment I have seen would stretch to decades apart and not "practically" daily.

I am bound to measure my and my partners world view against yours and your partners and her friends and we are leagues apart.

I don't touch any woman when out and about, I don't speak to any woman unless she speaks to me, I don't ogle woman, I don't rape woman, I try to avoid being anywhere alone with a woman except my partner (although lifts can be a problem), if I have to pass a woman in restricted space I always put my hands behind my back, I could go on.

What should I do to "try harder"?
 
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tyr_13 said:
Sounds like the tactic works to some degree then. That sounds like a success.
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In what way is the "tactic" (an interesting and telling choice of word) working? What is the specific end desired and who is using the "tactic"? In what way is my giving such women a wide berth a "success"?

What are you suggesting would happen if I didn't give a wide berth?

Or what? You'll think less of them?
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Where did you get this from? As I've said to one other, don't judge me by your own petty standards.

You are misreading what the woman was trying to convey on a very basic level by making unfounded assumptions.
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Am I? Would you care to educate me then?

Might I ask you to mansplain explain what this, to you, unknown person actually meant? Clearly, you are of the opinion that she doesn't know her own mind!
 
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bluesjnr said:
I was talking about your standards, as hinted at by yourself, the standards that were, apparently, that low that simply talking to your partner and her friends about their life experiences caused you to reassess and change the way you behaved (I naturally assumed) toward woman. I also have to assume that change was required.

What the hell were you doing to them prior to your epiphany, how did you behave when out in public?

You insisted "any men here" sit down, shut up and hoped that we would experience the same epiphany. Your assumption being that "any men" are like you prior to your awakening.

I spoke to my partner who couldn't relate to being harassed or felt up on a "practically" daily basis. I can't relate to that claimed statistic as a man but I would guess that, if the frequency of such harassment was as stated, I would see it daily. I have never in my life seen a woman being felt up in public against her will and the few examples of harassment I have seen would stretch to decades apart and not "practically" daily.

I am bound to measure my and my partners world view against yours and your partners and friends and we are leagues apart.

I don't touch any woman when out and about, I don't speak to any woman unless she speaks to me, I don't ogle woman, I don't rape woman, I try to avoid being anywhere alone with a woman except my partner (although lifts can be a problem), if I have to pass a woman in restricted space I always put my hands behind my back, I could go on.
What should I do to "try harder".
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Why an I'm guessing the reply to this will be.

That sounds great, but deep down inside, subconsciously, you are a potential leering, groping, raping, ticking time bomb who needs to own this and up your game.

Lol
 
cullennz said:
Why an I'm guessing the reply to this will be.

That sounds great, but deep down inside, subconsciously, you are a potential leering, groping, raping, ticking time bomb who needs to own this and up your game.

Lol
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You have, I feel, hit the nail on the head.

Your stating of the end game may stay some posters hands but there are already some very subtle hints that I'm a nefarious, sex crazed line backer appearing in some responses.
 
bluesjnr said:
You have, I feel, hit the nail on the head.

Your stating of the end game may stay some posters hands but there are already some very subtle hints that I'm a nefarious, sex crazed line backer appearing in some responses.
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I noticed

From a personal point of view I work in an office environment with about 200 people about 60% men and 40% women.

Don't have much choice in being alone with women as have meetings alone with them, but never had an issue.

On the ninth floor so do find myself doing the hands behind the back thing in the lift.

You get the odd workers getting together as a mutual thing (2 couples ended up marrying each other), but never seen any issues with harrassment, apart from one bloke at a xmas party years ago get drunk and a bit sleazy.

We told him to pull his head in, which he did and he conveniently was found an excuse to be sacked about a month later.
 
bluesjnr said:
I simply cannot give that description any credence at all, it is the alarmist view of a paranoid.
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It is the natural reaction of someone who faces unwanted propositions and pressure from men on an almost daily basis.

When somebody spends enough time in a war zone, they begin ducking at every sudden loud noise. When you are constantly threatened, you will sooner or later begin feeling constantly threatened. This is a normal human response to stress, although I will grant it takes a modicum of empathy, and more importantly a willingness to understand, in order to achieve understanding.
 
Checkmite said:
It is the natural reaction of someone who faces unwanted propositions and pressure from men on an almost daily basis.
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I would agree if that was a "thing". Where do you live, has society collapsed there? Do try and gain some perspective.

When somebody spends enough time in a war zone, they begin ducking at every sudden loud noise. When you are constantly threatened, you will sooner or later begin feeling constantly threatened. This is a normal human response to stress,
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I beseech you to read this again. Try and apply some bloody logic to what you are suggesting.


although I will grant it takes a modicum of empathy, and more importantly a willingness to understand, in order to achieve understanding.
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...... and here we get to the thrust of your post, the real reason for your lazy and poorly thought out anecdote. Cullennz wasn't too far out.

Can I ask your gender (assuming you identify as male or female)?
 
bluesjnr said:
I would agree if that was a "thing". Where do you live, has society collapsed there? Do try and gain some perspective.
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That last sentence is the funniest line from you yet.

Yes, your personal incredulity will be an insurmountable obstacle to understanding if you simply outright refuse to believe that women are the recipients of unsolicited propositioning, harassing comments, and/or other sexist behavior on a nearly daily basis. As long as you are steadfast in this refusal, there's little point in further trying to explain the other perspective to you.

bluesjnr said:
Can I ask your gender (assuming you identify as male or female)?
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Male, if it matters.
 
Checkmite said:
That last sentence is the funniest line from you yet.

Yes, your personal incredulity will be an insurmountable obstacle to understanding if you simply outright refuse to believe that women are the recipients of unsolicited propositioning, harassing comments, and/or other sexist behavior on a nearly daily basis. As long as you are steadfast in this refusal, there's little point in further trying to explain the other perspective to you.



Male, if it matters.
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Any chance of pointing out where you live so we can warn our female friends and relatives not to go there?
 
Checkmite said:
That last sentence is the funniest line from you yet.
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A pointless non sequitur. Actually no I retract that it's not pointless. The only point was to attempt to inflame the discussion.....noted

Yes, your personal incredulity will be an insurmountable obstacle to understanding if you simply outright refuse to believe that women are the recipients of unsolicited propositioning, harassing comments, and/or other sexist behavior on a nearly daily basis. As long as you are steadfast in this refusal, there's little point in further trying to explain the other perspective to you.
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Yet I can easily halt the specious case you're determined to make against me and expose the obfuscation you indulge in. I fully understand that women are subject to unsolicited propositioning, sexual assaults, rape, misogyny and all manners of ill's. That isn't a stretch by any imagination, at all. I also fully accept that such behaviour is vile and wrong and should be called out and prosecuted vigorously when proven. So where is my lack of understanding? What is it that I don't understand?

You state that women suffer such on a daily basis and that I cannot but fail to agree with. Some where, right now some poor woman is suffering some such measure of male repression. It would be statistically impossible for it not to be the case.

Where I disagree is that a woman, each and every individual woman, suffers on a daily (as has been claimed) or almost daily (as you claim) basis. Such claims should not stand unchallenged just by dint of the gender that makes them.

Where I disagree is when a woman describes the feeling of being around men as being surrounded by NFL sized linebackers who's raison d'etre is to **** her and this is taken at face value. I certainly don't recognise myself in this description..... do you? An answer to this question would be appreciated

Male, if it matters.
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Oh..... it does, and it will. Trust me.
 
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bluesjnr said:
....
Where I disagree is when a woman describes the feeling of being around men as being surrounded by NFL sized linebackers who's raison d'etre is to **** her and this is taken at face value. I certainly don't recognise myself in this description..... do you? An answer to this question would be appreciated.
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I don't think you've understood the quote, since your paraphrase eliminates the pronoun you're supposed to recognise or identify with. The "you" in the original is the person you're supposed to relate to.

'Imagine you are surrounded by a group of NFL linemen, most of whom want to **** you.'
 
Checkmite said:
That last sentence is the funniest line from you yet.

Yes, your personal incredulity will be an insurmountable obstacle to understanding if you simply outright refuse to believe that women are the recipients of unsolicited propositioning, harassing comments, and/or other sexist behavior on a nearly daily basis. As long as you are steadfast in this refusal, there's little point in further trying to explain the other perspective to you.
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100%

This is a list of many of the things that my daughter says she and her friends do when they go out running or socialising. I wonder how many male members of our forum would even consider doing any of the following to keep themselves safe...

  • Never leave a drink unattended at a party.
  • Always check in the back seat before getting into their car.
  • Make sure to have the correct key out and ready before they get to their door or car
  • When someone is walking behind them, pretend to make a phone call while they allow the person to pass in front.
  • Stay in well-lit areas at night even if it means a longer route.
  • Walk past their destination, particularly if it’s their house, if someone has been behind them for a while.
  • Walk with their keys grasped between their fingers in case they need to use them as a weapon.
  • Keep an eye out for potential bolt holes if someone appears to be following them.
  • Regularly alter their running route to avoid potential stalkers learning it.
  • Change direction if a car appears to be following them.
  • Jog with only one earbud in to keep the other listening out.
  • Pretend to listen to music or be in the phone while walking by people who attempt to engage with them.
  • Change the locks when or if any house keys are misplaced.
  • Take alternative routes to avoid areas they know they are likely to face street harassment.
  • Cross the street when they see people who might be drunk.
  • Cross the street when anyone is walking towards them.
  • Avoid eye contact with people who are trying to get their attention.
  • Avoid entering stairwells or elevators occupied by only one other person.
  • Text a friend before going out for a run or on a date with a stranger.
  • Avoid sleeping naked in case of an intruder or on-looker.
  • Avoid parties or social gatherings if a person whose prior advances have made them uncomfortable, might be there.
  • Avoid opening Facebook messages from unknown people who could see that the message has been “Read”.
  • Decide the cost of a taxi is worth the price.
  • Never answer a knock at the door for someone they are not expecting and remain still until the door knocking stops.
  • When bringing heavy bags and packages into the house or flat, lock and unlock the door with every trip.
  • Make sure they are not the only person of their gender on the bus.
  • Avoid getting off at their bus or train stop if a person who has been staring gets off at the same time.
  • Drive in a circle if they think they are being followed.
  • Park next to a light post when it’s dark outside.
  • Wear a hoodie when driving late at night to appear male to other drivers.
 
smartcooky said:
100%

This is a list of many of the things that my daughter says she and her friends do when they go out running or socialising. I wonder how many male members of our forum would even consider doing any of the following to keep themselves safe...

  • Never leave a drink unattended at a party.
  • Always check in the back seat before getting into their car.
  • Make sure to have the correct key out and ready before they get to their door or car
  • When someone is walking behind them, pretend to make a phone call while they allow the person to pass in front.
  • Stay in well-lit areas at night even if it means a longer route.
  • Walk past their destination, particularly if it’s their house, if someone has been behind them for a while.
  • Walk with their keys grasped between their fingers in case they need to use them as a weapon.
  • Keep an eye out for potential bolt holes if someone appears to be following them.
  • Regularly alter their running route to avoid potential stalkers learning it.
  • Change direction if a car appears to be following them.
  • Jog with only one earbud in to keep the other listening out.
  • Pretend to listen to music or be in the phone while walking by people who attempt to engage with them.
  • Change the locks when or if any house keys are misplaced.
  • Take alternative routes to avoid areas they know they are likely to face street harassment.
  • Cross the street when they see people who might be drunk.
  • Cross the street when anyone is walking towards them.
  • Avoid eye contact with people who are trying to get their attention.
  • Avoid entering stairwells or elevators occupied by only one other person.
  • Text a friend before going out for a run or on a date with a stranger.
  • Avoid sleeping naked in case of an intruder or on-looker.
  • Avoid parties or social gatherings if a person whose prior advances have made them uncomfortable, might be there.
  • Avoid opening Facebook messages from unknown people who could see that the message has been “Read”.
  • Decide the cost of a taxi is worth the price.
  • Never answer a knock at the door for someone they are not expecting and remain still until the door knocking stops.
  • When bringing heavy bags and packages into the house or flat, lock and unlock the door with every trip.
  • Make sure they are not the only person of their gender on the bus.
  • Avoid getting off at their bus or train stop if a person who has been staring gets off at the same time.
  • Drive in a circle if they think they are being followed.
  • Park next to a light post when it’s dark outside.
  • Wear a hoodie when driving late at night to appear male to other drivers.
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They do this, but are their fears justified? And I don't mean, is there a bare chance that these precautions could work to avoid trouble at some point, but is it likely?

I guess my point is that showing that someone's afraid of something does not mean that that thing is dangerous. My mother, for instance, is deathly afraid of elevators, which are literally the safest mode of transportation in the history of the universe.
 
sphenisc said:
I don't think you've understood the quote, since your paraphrase eliminates the pronoun you're supposed to recognise or identify with. The "you" in the original is the person you're supposed to relate to.

'Imagine you are surrounded by a group of NFL linemen, most of whom want to **** you.'
Click to expand...

I don't think it materially changes the point the person who said it was making.

The point being that, that, was how she constantly felt and to empathise with her Thermal should imagine the scenario she outlined.
 
Belz... said:
They do this, but are their fears justified? And I don't mean, is there a bare chance that these precautions could work to avoid trouble at some point, but is it likely?

I guess my point is that showing that someone's afraid of something does not mean that that thing is dangerous. My mother, for instance, is deathly afraid of elevators, which are literally the safest mode of transportation in the history of the universe.
Click to expand...

To add, some of the items on this list are so mundane and routine that I think almost anyone who is ever slightly afraid of others at night or when alone would engage in them. On the other hand, some of these are so over-the-top paranoid that I can't take them as even close to reasonable risk assessment.

It seems whenever harassment/violence against women is brought up, and especially from strangers, we refer to FEARS from women... but isn't that just a positive-feedback loop? What if the fears are unjustified? Women should be afraid because other women are afraid.

Maybe women have poor risk assessment, being overly cautious in general due to fear.
Perhaps men are less afraid because they have better risk assessment... or maybe they should be more afraid? Or maybe they've been taught that they don't need to be afraid like women do? Or maybe there is a natural predisposition for both sexes toward risk aversion and lack thereof.

Or in reality some combination of all of these factors.

Even just looking at my own relationship, my fiancee is generally uncomfortable around strangers when we go out for walks together day or night. Even when they don't look at us or talk to us... but she has social anxiety. I've been beaten by strangers in broad daylight and yet I don't have even close to this degree of fear or feeling of being uncomfortable (anymore).
 
Belz... said:
They do this, but are their fears justified? And I don't mean, is there a bare chance that these precautions could work to avoid trouble at some point, but is it likely?

I guess my point is that showing that someone's afraid of something does not mean that that thing is dangerous. My mother, for instance, is deathly afraid of elevators, which are literally the safest mode of transportation in the history of the universe.
Click to expand...

My daughters decided a long time ago that they were going to do everything they could to avoid becoming rape statistics. I love them both very dearly, and I find I cannot argue with their sentiments.
 
smartcooky said:
100%

This is a list of many of the things that my daughter says she and her friends do when they go out running or socialising. I wonder how many male members of our forum would even consider doing any of the following to keep themselves safe...

  • Never leave a drink unattended at a party.
  • Always check in the back seat before getting into their car.
  • Make sure to have the correct key out and ready before they get to their door or car
  • When someone is walking behind them, pretend to make a phone call while they allow the person to pass in front.
  • Stay in well-lit areas at night even if it means a longer route.
  • Walk past their destination, particularly if it’s their house, if someone has been behind them for a while.
  • Walk with their keys grasped between their fingers in case they need to use them as a weapon.
  • Keep an eye out for potential bolt holes if someone appears to be following them.
  • Regularly alter their running route to avoid potential stalkers learning it.
  • Change direction if a car appears to be following them.
  • Jog with only one earbud in to keep the other listening out.
  • Pretend to listen to music or be in the phone while walking by people who attempt to engage with them.
  • Change the locks when or if any house keys are misplaced.
  • Take alternative routes to avoid areas they know they are likely to face street harassment.
  • Cross the street when they see people who might be drunk.
  • Cross the street when anyone is walking towards them.
  • Avoid eye contact with people who are trying to get their attention.
  • Avoid entering stairwells or elevators occupied by only one other person.
  • Text a friend before going out for a run or on a date with a stranger.
  • Avoid sleeping naked in case of an intruder or on-looker.
  • Avoid parties or social gatherings if a person whose prior advances have made them uncomfortable, might be there.
  • Avoid opening Facebook messages from unknown people who could see that the message has been “Read”.
  • Decide the cost of a taxi is worth the price.
  • Never answer a knock at the door for someone they are not expecting and remain still until the door knocking stops.
  • When bringing heavy bags and packages into the house or flat, lock and unlock the door with every trip.
  • Make sure they are not the only person of their gender on the bus.
  • Avoid getting off at their bus or train stop if a person who has been staring gets off at the same time.
  • Drive in a circle if they think they are being followed.
  • Park next to a light post when it’s dark outside.
  • Wear a hoodie when driving late at night to appear male to other drivers.
Click to expand...

That is horrible

Can't help thinking moving would be an idea
 
smartcooky said:
100%

This is a list of many of the things that my daughter says she and her friends do when they go out running or socialising. I wonder how many male members of our forum would even consider doing any of the following to keep themselves safe...

  • Never leave a drink unattended at a party.
  • Always check in the back seat before getting into their car.
  • Make sure to have the correct key out and ready before they get to their door or car
  • When someone is walking behind them, pretend to make a phone call while they allow the person to pass in front.
  • Stay in well-lit areas at night even if it means a longer route.
  • Walk past their destination, particularly if it’s their house, if someone has been behind them for a while.
  • Walk with their keys grasped between their fingers in case they need to use them as a weapon.
  • Keep an eye out for potential bolt holes if someone appears to be following them.
  • Regularly alter their running route to avoid potential stalkers learning it.
  • Change direction if a car appears to be following them.
  • Jog with only one earbud in to keep the other listening out.
  • Pretend to listen to music or be in the phone while walking by people who attempt to engage with them.
  • Change the locks when or if any house keys are misplaced.
  • Take alternative routes to avoid areas they know they are likely to face street harassment.
  • Cross the street when they see people who might be drunk.
  • Cross the street when anyone is walking towards them.
  • Avoid eye contact with people who are trying to get their attention.
  • Avoid entering stairwells or elevators occupied by only one other person.
  • Text a friend before going out for a run or on a date with a stranger.
  • Avoid sleeping naked in case of an intruder or on-looker.
  • Avoid parties or social gatherings if a person whose prior advances have made them uncomfortable, might be there.
  • Avoid opening Facebook messages from unknown people who could see that the message has been “Read”.
  • Decide the cost of a taxi is worth the price.
  • Never answer a knock at the door for someone they are not expecting and remain still until the door knocking stops.
  • When bringing heavy bags and packages into the house or flat, lock and unlock the door with every trip.
  • Make sure they are not the only person of their gender on the bus.
  • Avoid getting off at their bus or train stop if a person who has been staring gets off at the same time.
  • Drive in a circle if they think they are being followed.
  • Park next to a light post when it’s dark outside.
  • Wear a hoodie when driving late at night to appear male to other drivers.
Click to expand...

I would suggest that any male member who doesn't take these suggestions onboard is a fool, given that the majority of them are basic security measures. Do you really wonder "how many male members of our forum would even consider" 99% of these suggestions.... really?

You think I blithely open my door at all hours? Walk with gay abandon down dark alleys? Laugh dismissively when my keys are confirmed as missing and take no further action? With a hop in my step, alight from a bus when when that person (male or female) who has been sitting staring at me for the entire journey moves to get off at the same time.

That is just three I picked randomly as I scrolled down.

Look, speaking for myself, I get it guys. I really do! Your constant over egging is not helping things in anyway.
 
bluesjnr said:
I don't think it materially changes the point the person who said it was making.

The point being that, that, was how she constantly felt and to empathise with her Thermal should imagine the scenario she outlined.
Click to expand...

Then what does your question mean?
". I certainly don't recognise myself in this description..... do you? "

Why would you expect to recognise yourself in this description? It's not intended to be a description of you.
 
pharphis said:
To add, some of the items on this list are so mundane and routine that I think almost anyone who is ever slightly afraid of others at night or when alone would engage in them. On the other hand, some of these are so over-the-top paranoid that I can't take them as even close to reasonable risk assessment.

It seems whenever harassment/violence against women is brought up, and especially from strangers, we refer to FEARS from women... but isn't that just a positive-feedback loop? What if the fears are unjustified? Women should be afraid because other women are afraid.

Maybe women have poor risk assessment, being overly cautious in general due to fear.
Perhaps men are less afraid because they have better risk assessment... or maybe they should be more afraid? Or maybe they've been taught that they don't need to be afraid like women do? Or maybe there is a natural predisposition for both sexes toward risk aversion and lack thereof.

Or in reality some combination of all of these factors.

Even just looking at my own relationship, my fiancee is generally uncomfortable around strangers when we go out for walks together day or night. Even when they don't look at us or talk to us... but she has social anxiety. I've been beaten by strangers in broad daylight and yet I don't have even close to this degree of fear or feeling of being uncomfortable (anymore).
Click to expand...

Back away from that comment! Back away!

Save yourself, I'm taking the hits here.

Your reasonable perspective in the rest of your post holds no sway. Run for your life (but not with scissors and stay in well-lit areas at night even if it means a longer route. Do run with keys grasped between your fingers in case you need to use them as a weapon, and change direction if a car appears to be following you) etc. etc. etc.
 
sphenisc said:
Then what does your question mean?
". I certainly don't recognise myself in this description..... do you? "

Why would you expect to recognise yourself in this description? It's not intended to be a description of you.
Click to expand...

Of course it is. The person who Thermal overheard was describing all men and how they come across when they are around her. Most want to **** her and are the size of NFL linebackers compared to her.

I would certainly not expect to recognise myself in that description, are you joking? Where did you get that I would?

It's that womans description of all men around her at any given time and therefore by association, all men and last time I looked.......
 
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