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Tags Eric Ciaramella , whistleblower issues , whistleblowers

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Old 31st October 2019, 12:32 PM   #41
varwoche
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Didn't take long for the knives to come out and people stop addressing the article and start personalizing it but that's is, as someone recently said here.....SOP
I addressed the article in post 6. Your thoughts? Do you think it matters who it is, seeing as the report has been confirmed to be true? If yes, why is that?
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Old 31st October 2019, 12:37 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Didn't take long for the knives to come out and people stop addressing the article and start personalizing it but that's is, as someone recently said here.....SOP

Weirdly ironic, given that the only purpose of the article is to "personalize it."
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Old 31st October 2019, 12:52 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Didn't take long for the knives to come out and people stop addressing the article and start personalizing it but that's is, as someone recently said here.....SOP
You didn't even address the ******* article there, guy, and you posted it.

I made that observation already though.
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Old 31st October 2019, 01:21 PM   #44
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Edited by zooterkin:  From https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/30...ian-officials/

Quote:
Politico reported on a Ukrainian-American woman who consulted for the Democratic National Committee, and “met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia.” The woman, Alexandra Chalupa, was paid $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016 by the DNC.

Ciaramella invited Chalupa to meetings and events at the White House, RealClear reported, documents confirming one occasion in November 2015. She also visited the White House with Ukrainian lobbyists seeking aid from Obama
Mod WarningDo not quote significant amounts of material from elsewhere without giving an indication that's what you are doing.
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Old 31st October 2019, 01:48 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Politico reported on a Ukrainian-American woman who consulted for the Democratic National Committee, and “met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia.” The woman, Alexandra Chalupa, was paid $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016 by the DNC.

Ciaramella invited Chalupa to meetings and events at the White House, RealClear reported, documents confirming one occasion in November 2015. She also visited the White House with Ukrainian lobbyists seeking aid from Obama
If you're going to steal someone's **** at least give them credit for it.
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Old 31st October 2019, 02:14 PM   #46
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Applecorped continuing to attack the messenger. The real question is whether the substance of the message is correct. Is it correct Applecorp?

Did Trump use authorized military aid as leverage to persuade Ukraine to investigate his political opponent?

Try SUBSTANCE instead of SMEAR.
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Old 31st October 2019, 02:19 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Ciaramella invited Chalupa to meetings and events at the White House
If I were attending a White House meeting or event I'd expect something better than a chalupa. Burrito Supreme, perhaps, or the deluxe nachos.
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Old 31st October 2019, 02:39 PM   #48
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The public has no right to know this information. The impeachment proceedings should continue to be held in private and the vote in the Senate should be private as well. Just tell us the outcome.
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Old 31st October 2019, 02:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The public has no right to know this information. The impeachment proceedings should continue to be held in private and the vote in the Senate should be private as well. Just tell us the outcome.
NO IT DOESN'T. That's why the Whistleblower law was enacted. But there is going to be public hearings.
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Old 31st October 2019, 03:06 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Do you think it matters who it is, seeing as the report has been confirmed to be true?

Obviously, if the whistleblower is a Democrat, has ever worked for a Democrat, has ever met a Democrat, was ever in the same room as a Democrat, knows what a Democrat is, or has ever heard or read the word "Democrat", then their testimony is completely invalid, everything derived from it must be discarded, and Trump must have his term extended to compensate for the time lost to this blasphemous persecution.
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Old 31st October 2019, 03:16 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Obviously, if the whistleblower is a Democrat, has ever worked for a Democrat, has ever met a Democrat, was ever in the same room as a Democrat, knows what a Democrat is, or has ever heard or read the word "Democrat", then their testimony is completely invalid, everything derived from it must be discarded, and Trump must have his term extended to compensate for the time lost to this blasphemous persecution.
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Old 31st October 2019, 03:17 PM   #52
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I also have to note the way the Trumpers have now embraced Vladimir Putin.
Clear they don't like democracy and long for a authorarian leader.
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Old 31st October 2019, 03:54 PM   #53
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If the police catch someone standing over a dead body with a bloody knife in hand and there are a dozen witnesses all stating that the guy holding the knife is the killer, does it matter who called 911?
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Old 31st October 2019, 04:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
If the police catch someone standing over a dead body with a bloody knife in hand and there are a dozen witnesses all stating that the guy holding the knife is the killer, does it matter who called 911?
Apparently Applecorped thinks it does. That is, if the guy holding the gun is President Trump and those witnesses were "blue state" New Yorkers.
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Old 31st October 2019, 04:35 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Except if they're "Never-Trumper" Republicans. Which they are, if they blow the whistle on Trump. Only Republicans who don't blow the whistle on Trump are allowed to blow the whistle on Trump.
Perfect. It all makes sense now.
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Old 31st October 2019, 04:51 PM   #56
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Old 31st October 2019, 05:08 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
That's what you got? Childish emoticons?

Not ONCE have you addressed the substance of the Whistleblower's report.

Is Colonel Vindman lying? How about Ambassador Yovanovitch? Ambassador Taylor? Fiona Hill, George Kent? Hell, even the White House doctored transcript of the President's phone call confirms the meat of the whistleblower's report.

So why oh why does it make a damn bit of difference if the Whistleblower is a Democrat, a goat or an alien from another planet?
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Old 31st October 2019, 05:09 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
https://www.realclearinvestigations....er_120996.html


RealClearInvestigations is disclosing the name because of the public’s interest in learning details of an effort to remove a sitting president from office. Further, the official's status as a “whistleblower” is complicated by his being a hearsay reporter of accusations against the president, one who has “some indicia of an arguable political bias … in favor of a rival political candidate"
The hearsay arguments are just from Trump supporters and they are subhuman. His status is not complicated unless you're Trumptrash and then your objections don't matter.
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Old 31st October 2019, 05:10 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
delet
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Old 31st October 2019, 05:36 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The public has no right to know this information. The impeachment proceedings should continue to be held in private and the vote in the Senate should be private as well. Just tell us the outcome.
Other than not having a closed trial, and I don't think that an impeachment trial should be closed either, how would this differ from any normal criminal case where the interviews of witnesses are done in private, the grand jury is held in secret, and the Jury deliberated and votes in secret?
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Old 31st October 2019, 09:15 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's what you got? Childish emoticons?

Not ONCE have you addressed the substance of the Whistleblower's report.

Is Colonel Vindman lying? How about Ambassador Yovanovitch? Ambassador Taylor? Fiona Hill, George Kent? Hell, even the White House doctored transcript of the President's phone call confirms the meat of the whistleblower's report.

So why oh why does it make a damn bit of difference if the Whistleblower is a Democrat, a goat or an alien from another planet?
Don't go putting ideas in his head!!!
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Old 31st October 2019, 09:55 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
This should have been posted in the "trumpers are fascists" thread.
perfect.
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Old 31st October 2019, 11:21 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The hearsay arguments are just from Trump supporters and they are subhuman. His status is not complicated unless you're Trumptrash and then your objections don't matter.
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Old 1st November 2019, 02:14 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Except that no one is fooled. It's assumed that what you quote and which agrees with what you usually quote or say is something you (general) agree with.
Well sure, that is a safe, reasonable, and even logical assumption to make. But that won't stop me from pointing out that I never explicitly said I agreed with it and therefore anything suggesting it is my own personal position on the matter is a dirty rotten strawman.
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Old 1st November 2019, 02:21 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I also have to note the way the Trumpers have now embraced Vladimir Putin.
And now that they can use him as a punchline, finally disavowed Joseph McCarthy.
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Old 1st November 2019, 02:23 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Well sure, that is a safe, reasonable, and even logical assumption to make. But that won't stop me from pointing out that I never explicitly said I agreed with it and therefore anything suggesting it is my own personal position on the matter is a dirty rotten strawman.
Are... are you responding to my post? I was talking about applecorped's OP.
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Old 1st November 2019, 03:29 AM   #67
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The whistleblower’s ties to Democrats, including Biden, Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of Intelligence James Clapper and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice
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Old 1st November 2019, 03:48 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
The whistleblower’s ties to Democrats, including Biden, Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of Intelligence James Clapper and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice
That’s a third of a real sentence. The verb comes next.

Also, the whistleblower’s ties are irrelevant as Trump has already released a transcript of, at least, some of their claims.
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Old 1st November 2019, 03:57 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
The whistleblower’s ties to Democrats, including Biden, Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of Intelligence James Clapper and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice
How does your sentence fragment make the whistleblower wrong? I also notice that only Trumptrash news outlets are running the story.
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Old 1st November 2019, 04:16 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
The whistleblower’s ties to Democrats, including Biden, Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of Intelligence James Clapper and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice
By the same token, since you're a Republican, we cannot take anything you say seriously.

I, however, as one of the forum's precious few centrists, am always right.
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Old 1st November 2019, 05:11 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
By the same token, since you're a Republican, we cannot take anything you say seriously.

I, however, as one of the forum's precious few centrists, am always right.
You consider yourself a centrist? On what scale? As a barycenter between the sun and Proxima Centauri?
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:22 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
The whistleblower’s ties to Democrats, including Biden, Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of Intelligence James Clapper and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice
This is wrong in so many ways it's comical.

(1) It's an incomplete thought (I've been telling you for a while, stick with the emojis)

(2) Any and all facts about the whistle-blower are mooter than moot.

(3) It's premature to elevate these rumors to fact.

(4) The imbecile who is circulating this information illegally, Devin Nunes, is a spectacularly unreliable fact source.
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:25 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You consider yourself a centrist?
Given that I have opinions that are alternatively liberal and conservative, that I rarely entirely agree with either side, and that I don't identify by political ideology, yeah. I've been called right-wing and a radical leftist on this site, in close succession, sometimes in the same thread.

How would you classify me?
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:34 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Given that I have opinions that are alternatively liberal and conservative, that I rarely entirely agree with either side, and that I don't identify by political ideology, yeah. I've been called right-wing and a radical leftist on this site, in close succession, sometimes in the same thread.

How would you classify me?
I don't think centrism is just averaging together the math of some right opinions and some left opinions. I think it would have to be more an assessment done by giving weighted values in order of priority to each political position. Which I guess would be math after all, but with more than just checkboxes counting number of positions.

As far assessing you goes, I don't know you well enough. I don't think centrism is the assumed default for people who don't fit neatly into a left-right spectrum. I don't fit nearly myself but nobody would call me a centrist. Some of my positions are to the left of the Borg Collective, and others would make the Tsars blink.
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:50 AM   #75
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I intend to make this my only post on this side track: I don't see the value in self-identifying on the political spectrum. There's no real upside, but there is potential downside of tribal identification / rigidity of thought.
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:53 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I don't think centrism is just averaging together the math of some right opinions and some left opinions. I think it would have to be more an assessment done by giving weighted values in order of priority to each political position.
I never mentioned math or averages. The point of centrism is simply to have moderate views and not commit to one ideology or another.

Quote:
As far assessing you goes, I don't know you well enough.
TM, we've still interacted with me for as long as I've been here (14 years). You must have some idea of where I stand on various issues, and be aware that I pretty much never espouse extremist views, and that I don't fall within one "side" or another of the political spectrum.
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:54 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
The whistleblower’s ties to Democrats, including Biden, Schiff, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of Intelligence James Clapper and former National Security Adviser Susan Rice
I suppose Bill Taylor, John Bolton, Sondland, Lt Col Vidman. Maria Yovanovitch and all the other people who have given or will be giving testimony that back up the whistleblower complaint are also died in the wool democrats with ties to some sort of deep state. Or maybe, just maybe, Trump is a corrupt idiot.
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:54 AM   #78
Belz...
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I intend to make this my only post on this side track: I don't see the value in self-identifying on the political spectrum. There's no real upside, but there is potential downside of tribal identification / rigidity of thought.
Well, it was a joke on my part to set up the idea that I'm always right, but sometimes to point is to avoid labels by others. As I said I've been accused of being a right-winger and a progressive in the very same thread!
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:55 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I intend to make this my only post on this side track: I don't see the value in self-identifying on the political spectrum. There's no real upside, but there is potential downside of tribal identification / rigidity of thought.
Typical anarchist claptrap. Figures.
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Old 1st November 2019, 06:59 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
TM, we've still interacted with me for as long as I've been here (14 years). You must have some idea of where I stand on various issues, and be aware that I pretty much never espouse extremist views, and that I don't fall within one "side" or another of the political spectrum.
Be fair. We interact with lots of posters on lots of subjects and are often lucky if we just have a vague impression of the other guy.

If you pressed me, I couldn't name a single opinion of yours that falls on the conservative side of the spectrum. It's not that think you're particularly liberal, it's just that I can't recall particular stances that have led to my opinion of your political bent. I read your posts and respond to you about as much as to anyone, but I don't take notes.
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