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4th November 2019, 09:14 AM | #1 | ||
Lackey
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Assuming Nationality from Appearance - Racist or Not?
What racism? |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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4th November 2019, 09:36 AM | #2 |
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4th November 2019, 09:44 AM | #3 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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4th November 2019, 09:51 AM | #4 |
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4th November 2019, 10:15 AM | #5 |
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No, that’s just ignorance, like when Americans assume I know their friend who lives in London because I’m also from England. Racism is generally prejudice based on appearance or ethnic background (for example) and driven by the fact one believes one’s own group to be superior. Thinking a group of people might be Chinese because they look Chinese (if that’s what happened, and it’s far from certain that it did) isn’t racist. If the police decided not to put much effort in because the victims were (or appeared to be) Chinese, that would be racist.
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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4th November 2019, 10:27 AM | #6 |
Penultimate Amazing
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If the Chinese police had said, after a tour bus crashes killing all 70 occupants, we think they might be English, but they turned out to be Scottish, I do not think anyone would be particularly fussed.
There are more English, than Scots, Welsh and NI put together. There are more Chinese (1.36 billion) than the rest of South east Asia put together (641 million). |
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4th November 2019, 10:30 AM | #7 |
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5th November 2019, 02:43 AM | #8 |
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5th November 2019, 03:00 AM | #9 |
Illuminator
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Tell that to the Koreans' I worked with...Hell, tell that to ANYONE from (South)-East Asia who is not Chinese. (Sometimes the default goes to Japanese, like here in Düsseldorf, because there's a large Japanese community.)
Yes, they nod, and smile, and politely correct you... but they CORRECT you. Always. It bothers them. A lot. Even more so when Koreans are confused with Japanese. No wonder if you know the history. It's racist. |
5th November 2019, 03:28 AM | #10 |
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Funny how you reacted to a post other than the one where I gave the demographic and historical context in the UK. What happens in Düsseldorf means squat.
My Chinese brother-in-law occasionally gets mistaken for Korean by Chinese, Japanese, and even yes, Korean people. It doesn't bother him. |
5th November 2019, 04:16 AM | #11 |
Poisoned Waffles
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Is it racist to confuse a Swede for a Norwegian? A Kenyan for a Tanzanian? A Serbian for a Croat? I'm pretty sure almost everybody would correct you if you mistake them but I don't see why it's necessarily always racist.
And if you answered "No" then I don't see why mistaken nationality is racist when it's east Asia and nowhere else. |
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5th November 2019, 04:41 AM | #12 |
Lackey
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Then your own statement becomes racist, the "they look Asian". And in the UK (just to illustrate how silly and how much of a social construct most uses of the word "race" are) "asians" in the UK will generally refer to looking like someone from India or Pakistan not China or Korea and so on.
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th November 2019, 04:48 AM | #13 |
Lackey
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Because I have red hair nearly everyone I've met from the USA and we've had a general discussion of where we are from assume I'm Irish or sometimes Scottish. That is wrong I am English. That mistake and assumption is not racist, unless they had treated me sub optimally or just differently because they thought I was Irish or Scottish.
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th November 2019, 08:23 AM | #14 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 08:24 AM | #15 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 08:32 AM | #16 |
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Definitely. I know a couple of Finns who got very angry at being mistaken for Russian. One of them, who attended Kingston Polytechnic for a year, got really pissed off at being called 'Merger' (her name is Merja' [soft 'j']). When I first made acquaintance with her, she introduced herself as 'Merger' which I called her for a long time because she assumed I was another ignorant Brit, so she saved me the trouble of anglicising her name.
I do think it is racist for other people to tell you what you are based on their own ignorance. So if you are not Chinese, who is anyone to tell you that you are? AIUI the Vietnamese like to be buried in their home village when dead, so they could have been buried in a far away country by accident. |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 08:33 AM | #17 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th November 2019, 08:36 AM | #18 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 08:37 AM | #19 |
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None of which is racist.
Quote:
Quote:
(Leaving aside the fact that, yes, most people prefer to be dead before they are buried...) |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th November 2019, 08:37 AM | #20 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 08:38 AM | #21 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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5th November 2019, 08:39 AM | #22 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th November 2019, 08:42 AM | #23 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 09:26 AM | #24 |
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Not the mistake, the assumption. If you assume that someone is Scottish because they are white, that's racist. If you assume that someone is Chinese because they look "Chinese" that's racist. Etc.
Especially when it's gratuitous. There's no need to make an early determination about nationality, from appearance alone. It's totally okay to wait and get more information before saying one way or the other. It's the gratuitous stereotyping of nationality, based on physical appearance, that is racist. "I can tell from your epicanthic folds and burnt-honey skin tone that you are asian, and therefore probably Chinese"... Is racist. |
5th November 2019, 09:32 AM | #25 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 09:34 AM | #26 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 10:06 AM | #27 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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5th November 2019, 10:12 AM | #28 |
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5th November 2019, 10:15 AM | #29 |
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5th November 2019, 10:16 AM | #30 |
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Scottish and English white are from the same race. To mix up one with the other or make assumptions is not racist.
Are the Chinese a separate race from the Vietnamese? Are all Chinese people the same race? I know China has numerous ethnic groups, but ethnicity and race are not the same. |
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5th November 2019, 10:17 AM | #31 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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5th November 2019, 10:21 AM | #32 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th November 2019, 10:24 AM | #33 |
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5th November 2019, 10:27 AM | #34 |
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It depends on the circumstances. If a Chinese police officer finds a German tour bus and assumes those inside are German, but they were Scottish and a correction is made straight away, no harm done. If a Chinese state official refers to visiting Scottish dignitaries as German and then claims they are all the same anyway, then there is an issue.
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5th November 2019, 10:28 AM | #35 |
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5th November 2019, 10:32 AM | #36 |
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5th November 2019, 10:33 AM | #37 |
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5th November 2019, 10:45 AM | #38 |
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5th November 2019, 10:56 AM | #39 |
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5th November 2019, 10:58 AM | #40 |
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