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5th November 2019, 08:18 AM | #201 |
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5th November 2019, 08:32 AM | #202 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th November 2019, 08:40 AM | #203 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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5th November 2019, 09:03 AM | #204 |
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5th November 2019, 09:49 AM | #205 | ||
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And you missed the point. Regardless of whether any passports found were real or fake, they would not require english translations at all because THE ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS ARE ALREADY PRINTED ON THEM.
Have an exampleIMG]https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/return-09252019172016.html/uyghur-ablikim-abla-passport-crop.jpg/@@images/45739f6b-0946-47b2-bb89-0d3e087330b4.jpeg
That's an actual chinese passport. Hell, you could have looked at your own. Note to mods: That is a publicly released image, not any breach of privacy. I was careful about that. See https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyg...019172016.html |
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5th November 2019, 10:12 AM | #206 |
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Yes, that's what I thought. I'm pretty sure I have seen the outside of such a passport, in the immigration queue at some airport or other, and the reason I knew it was a Chinese passport is that the words "People's Republic of China" were printed on the outside cover, in clear, in English, in addition to a bunch of Chinese characters that I of course couldn't read. If some of the victims in this case had such passports in their possession I really don't see how the police can be criticised for initially believing the victims were indeed Chinese. |
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5th November 2019, 10:23 AM | #207 |
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5th November 2019, 10:25 AM | #208 |
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5th November 2019, 10:31 AM | #209 |
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"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
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5th November 2019, 10:36 AM | #210 |
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So it is pure speculation. You take fake news so seriously that you were able to confidently extrapolate that the Essex police must have guessed the migrants were Chinese because there - oh let me think of something - might have been some documents indicating this was so and they had the help of an English header on the - I know! Those documents must have been passports! - saying so.
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5th November 2019, 10:41 AM | #211 |
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I think that what the police will have found at the locus and their initial responsibilities is worth discussing.
The first officers attending have a duty to preserve life and balance that with not contaminating a crime scene. Someone, police or maybe paramedic or both would need to go inside and check the people to see if there are any signs of life. If, as it appears it was quickly established that those inside were dead, then they need to leave and disturb what is there as little as possible. The next person inside the container should be police scenes of crime (SOCO), fully suited and prepared for a crime scene examination of each body and the container itself after a plan of action has been agreed with a crime scene manager. Unless there were passports or other documentation openly on display, such would only be taken and checked by the SOCO. The container was parked publicly and lots of press were about. It was moved and I suspect it was only after it was moved that a full search took place by SOCO, such that any documentation could be traced and checked. |
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5th November 2019, 10:41 AM | #212 |
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No. It has been suggested that the reason the police initially thought the victims were Chinese was that some of them were in possession of (forged?) Chinese passports. I remarked that if that were the case, (given that I know Chinese passports also have the information printed in English, so nobody needed to be able to understand Far Eastern calligraphy) it was an understandable conclusion. I'm not sure why you seem to have a problem with this. |
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5th November 2019, 10:44 AM | #213 |
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It's beginning to look like the Chinese had nothing to do with it:
Quote:
Not even a fake Chinese passport. |
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5th November 2019, 10:45 AM | #214 |
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5th November 2019, 10:55 AM | #215 |
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You were the first person in this thread to reference passports;
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4#post12868204 in a post where you happily assumed they were Chinese, based on the information at that time. |
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5th November 2019, 11:23 AM | #216 |
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5th November 2019, 11:54 AM | #217 |
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5th November 2019, 12:05 PM | #218 |
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5th November 2019, 01:23 PM | #219 |
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5th November 2019, 01:24 PM | #220 |
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6th November 2019, 01:12 AM | #221 | ||
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1808554/ |
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6th November 2019, 01:29 AM | #222 |
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Then with that knowledge Essex police shouldn't have said the lorry victims were 'all Chinese nationals' - assuming they had no grounds to (and of course they might have had, which we'll find out about in due course) - especially bearing in mind the sensitive political relationship with China.
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6th November 2019, 02:03 AM | #223 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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6th November 2019, 02:08 AM | #224 |
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6th November 2019, 08:36 AM | #225 | ||
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7th November 2019, 01:14 AM | #226 |
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The highlighted bit is completely extraneous, as all Chinese passports have English on them as well as Chinese.
So we're simply talking about "Chinese passports", not "Chinese passports together with English translation". The latter makes it sound like that would be unusual in some way. |
7th November 2019, 01:40 AM | #227 |
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Not this again. As I said before, that is simply a quote of another poster. Read it as: 'passport with English' as claimed by X. I am perfectly well aware the tabloids such as the SUN have issued pictures of typical Chinese passports with English headers, so no, you haven't told me anything new and no, I am not disputing it has English headers.
Sheeesh!!! The claim that police knew the migrants were Chinese because they had fake 'Chinese passports with English translation' remains as speculative and as specious as ever. Give me a citation of where police confirmed they found ID documentation in Chinese with English headers. (This is a quote, not a challenge to prove 'Chinese passports have English in them' as quoted by a poster.) Please don't bother with a photo of a Chinese passport. |
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7th November 2019, 03:07 AM | #228 |
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We should look for what the police said. On the day, this was reported by a local Essex news site;
https://www.essexlive.news/news/esse...y-dead-3456308 "Chief Superintendent Andrew Mariner said: "This is a tragic incident where a large number of people have lost their lives. Our enquiries are ongoing to establish what has happened. "We are in the process of identifying the victims, however I anticipate that this could be a lengthy process." No mention of nationality. |
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7th November 2019, 03:10 AM | #229 |
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Not sure why anyone would need to, since no-one has claimed that is what did happen, only that it might have done. You're the one apparently claiming that the police decided the victims were Chinese simply based on their appearance.
Meanwhile:
Quote:
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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7th November 2019, 03:31 AM | #230 |
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7th November 2019, 05:23 AM | #231 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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7th November 2019, 09:30 AM | #232 |
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It's not a non sequitur. It might be difficult for Vietnamese citizens to visit China in the first place, without proper ID, if the theory is they went via China and acquired fake Chinese ID's.
Anyway the most up to date news is that they are all from Vietnam and a handful of Vietnamese suspected people smugglers have been arrested. Why would they even need to go via China? |
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7th November 2019, 09:47 AM | #233 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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7th November 2019, 09:59 AM | #234 |
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Problem is, with the Chinese ID theory, is that very few Chinese arrivals to this country via proper routes are given more than tourist or student visas.
Why would you want a useless passport that doesn't even allow you to settle here? Makes more sense to get hold of a fake EU passport. |
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7th November 2019, 11:29 AM | #235 |
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7th November 2019, 11:35 AM | #236 |
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It's now been officially confirmed all the victim were Vietnamese nationals.
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11th November 2019, 07:37 AM | #237 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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11th November 2019, 08:59 AM | #238 |
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London (CNN)All 39 people who were found dead in a truck in a UK industrial park on Wednesday were Chinese nationals, British police said Thursday, as officers in England, Northern Ireland and Belgium scrambled to establish the chain of events that led to the tragic incident.https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/24/u...gbr/index.html
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11th November 2019, 09:18 AM | #239 |
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What a weird article. They quote a bunch of officials, but not the official who actually told them the trailer was full of Chinese nationals.
They link to a police statement, that says they're "believed to be". That has since been updated. It looks like that was an early estimate, not a formal finding of nationality. The update is a much more formal declaration of the nationality of the victims. I think somebody got carried away with an early report from the investigation, and turned into a positive ID where none was actually made or intended. |
11th November 2019, 09:31 AM | #240 |
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It was taken very seriously because the Chinese ambassadors in the UK where called to help establish identity. It wasn't just idle speculation. Someone official somewhere decided they were Chinese. Time will tell if this was because of fake documents leading them to believe this.
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