Jailed Over Medical Debt

That's Missouri. I believe the OP article was about Kansas.

I was more thinking of the wider implications of "show me" i.e. people who are too stupid to understand stuff without a pretty picture. Coffeyville, with a judge with no Law degree, who wears his judicial robes over a pair of cowboy boots, utterly reeks of Hicktown, USA
 
In a morally advanced capitalist society, the biggest supplier of health-care is not the government but some form of crowd-funding. Beg, bitches.
 
I was more thinking of the wider implications of "show me" i.e. people who are too stupid to understand stuff without a pretty picture. Coffeyville, with a judge with no Law degree, who wears his judicial robes over a pair of cowboy boots, utterly reeks of Hicktown, USA

It's always perplexed me how anyone can be a decent judge with no law degree. It's like appointing someone with no medical degree to decide proper medical procedures.
 
It's always perplexed me how anyone can be a decent judge with no law degree. It's like appointing someone with no medical degree to decide proper medical procedures.

They can't, judging by the article.
 
It's always perplexed me how anyone can be a decent judge with no law degree. It's like appointing someone with no medical degree to decide proper medical procedures.
There are some less than decent judges who DO have law degrees. Many of them in fact. Including at least 1/3 of the Supreme Court.
 
It's always perplexed me how anyone can be a decent judge with no law degree. It's like appointing someone with no medical degree to decide proper medical procedures.

In theory it isn't bad. The usual set up for these para-judges are for them to only handle basic stuff and be on a pretty short leash as to things like contempt powers and criminal punishments. They arraign people, handle petty criminal matters, small civil disputes, etc.

The problem is when they abuse powers like in this story and nobody in power or with access to power steps up and fights them hard.

One solution to having these kinds of issues is to not give any sort of immunity to a political entity that uses these sorts of para-judges. What is going on in that case is a clear abuse of the contempt power, both in using it as a collection tool almost certainly in violation of the spirit if not letter of the Equal Protection Clause, and also just basic corruption in that a private party is being allowed to direct judicial policy.

Just that immunity doctrines make it hard to sue. Unless lawyers want to work for free it is unlikely to happen.

Immunity doctrines are a big reason a lot of local corruption runs unchecked. That and the death of the local independent press.
 
It is sad that so many people just don't understand this simple fact, and then they want other people to sort out their problems!


The guy in the interview said that poor people just need to better themselves by getting a GED, a better job, etc. It was largely their own fault that they're poor.

I once read a science fiction novel in which a character stated "The shrillest cries of social injustice usually come from those whose only contribution to society could be done just as well by a trained chimpanzee." The argument was that the key to success is to find a skill or talent that you possess, that society finds valuable, and which most other people don't have. At that point, society won't mistreat you because they need and value what you can do. The problem with that argument is that it ignores situations where circumstances prevent someone from developing their talents. A single mother working three jobs to support herself and her two children might have the potential to be the world's greatest botanist or concert pianist, but how and when is she supposed to develop that potential?
 
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I'm not saying it's right, but read the article. They aren't being jailed for their medical debt, they are being jailed for missing court dates regarding their medical debt.

From my reading the process goes like this:
1- have the person summoned to a proceeding aimed at a negotiated settlement
2- refuse any settlement that isn't 100% on their terms, and have them summoned again
3- repeat this until the person misses a court date at which point the plaintiff wins a full verdict in their favor and the defendant they summoned over and over faces jail for contempt.
 
At least they'll be operating in an environment where employers are going to be really sympathetic regarding days off otherwise their ability to earn money to actually pay the debt might be inhibited.
 
There are some less than decent judges who DO have law degrees. Many of them in fact. Including at least 1/3 of the Supreme Court.

What can we expect from a president and senate who routinely nominate and approve judges found to be unqualified for the job by the ABA?
 
I'm not at all surprised that conservative strongholds like OK or KS have barbaric debt collection practices. Being poor is the greatest sin to the eyes of these people.


You're looking at this the wrong way. It's not being poor that is the sin to hardline conservatives, it's being poor and still being uppity enough to believe that one has the same rights as rich people. Like the War on Drugs. this is very much a harassment technique intended to keep people poor, keep for-profit prisons profitable, and put more money in the pockets of officials. They are trying to de facto re-established indentured servitude in this country. Plus, this has the added bonus of disenfranchising the poor, since if they have a criminal conviction, and still owe fines, they can be denied the vote. That's what the school-to-prison pipeline has been effective at doing to minorities in various parts of the country.
 
You're looking at this the wrong way. It's not being poor that is the sin to hardline conservatives, it's being poor and still being uppity enough to believe that one has the same rights as rich people. Like the War on Drugs. this is very much a harassment technique intended to keep people poor, keep for-profit prisons profitable, and put more money in the pockets of officials.

And it's still nonsensical: more middle-class people means that people have more money to spend. You can't swindle poor people out of more money than they have, and life isn't a zero-sum game.
 
And it's still nonsensical: more middle-class people means that people have more money to spend. You can't swindle poor people out of more money than they have, and life isn't a zero-sum game.

There is a lot of money in poor people, you just have to learn the right way to squeeze them.
 
There is a lot of money in poor people, you just have to learn the right way to squeeze them.


Especially if you can squeeze them into crippling debt, and only offer them low-paying jobs with few benefits while making them hyper-dependent on those limited benefits, so you can get very cheap labour out of them and crank up your own profit margins to insanely high percentages.

Squeezing money out of people doesn't just mean directly taking cash from them, it also means squeezing them to indirectly provide financial gains through labour or other means.

And in any case, even if you only squeeze a small amount from one particular person, even repeatedly over a long period of time, there are a whole lot more poor people than rich people; so it adds up very quickly.

Further, it's much harder for poor people to fight back, because fighting back takes... wait for it... money. A whole lot of money and free time, things that poor people have a whole lot less of than the people who are squeezing money out of them.
 
Not saying I agree with the practice at all, but I know how it happens.

In Louisiana, at least, a creditor obtains a judgment. It doesn't really matter how, be it through the default judgment process or through a trial. After the judgment is rendered in favor of the creditor, the creditor may file for what we call a "judgment debtor exam". The only purpose of this hearing, which is noticed to the debtor by court official or marshall, is to set up a meeting with the creditor to obtain financial documentation so that the creditor can determine what assets and/or income can be seized to pay the debt. Failure to attend this meeting can result in the court issuing a bench warrant, which is how the debtor may end up in jail. Most judges are reluctant to issue a bench warrant, but get a judge that is having a bad day and a debtor who is ignoring all the correspondence and/or filings of the court, and you may have a bad situation arise.

Like I said: I'm not saying this is something I like or condone. But I've seen it happen with my clients from time to time. My stock advice is always: "You get an order to appear in front of a judge, whether civil or criminal, you go and see the judge. Ignoring the judge never makes the situation better."
 
The guy in the interview said that poor people just need to better themselves by getting a GED, a better job, etc. It was largely their own fault that they're poor.

I once read a science fiction novel in which a character stated "The shrillest cries of social injustice usually come from those whose only contribution to society could be done just as well by a trained chimpanzee." The argument was that the key to success is to find a skill or talent that you possess, that society finds valuable, and which most other people don't have. At that point, society won't mistreat you because they need and value what you can do. The problem with that argument is that it ignores situations where circumstances prevent someone from developing their talents. A single mother working three jobs to support herself and her two children might have the potential to be the world's greatest botanist or concert pianist, but how and when is she supposed to develop that potential?

Beyond that, how many botanists and concert pianists can find employment in those exact lines of work in our current system? I'm pretty sure a 1/10,000 talented and skilled concert pianist will actually be lucky to eek out a living mostly giving rich kids piano lessons.
 
It's always perplexed me how anyone can be a decent judge with no law degree. It's like appointing someone with no medical degree to decide proper medical procedures.

Well now you have discovered the problem of the Coroner system.

 
It's always perplexed me how anyone can be a decent judge with no law degree. It's like appointing someone with no medical degree to decide proper medical procedures.

All it takes is nobody with a law degree running against in that town. Somebody has to be the judge.
 
Jails and prisons are not known for great health care. The worse the record at any facility the record keeping gets sketchy.

If cancer gets someone while inside there is a good chance it was never detected. A better chance an autopsy won't be done.
 
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