Trump vs Elijah: Baltimore, BLM and urban decay

johnny karate · Sep 23, 2019

CaptainHowdy said:
Using a phrase that was used by another person isn't the same thing as....never mind.

Steve Sailer coined the phrase "Late Obama Age Collapse".

If anyone else uses that phrase, they are quoting Steve Sailer.

tanabear used that phrase in the OP.

Therefore, tanabear quoted Steve Sailer.

The thing is, it doesn't matter if Steve Sailor is a white supremacist. He's not. But that doesn't matter either. All that matters for our purposes is, is he right?

If Steve Sailer isn't a white supremacist, then how does the following argument differ from one that a white supremacist would make?

Steve Sailer said:
What you won't hear, except from me, is that "Let the good times roll" is an especially risky message for African-Americans. The plain fact is that they tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups. Thus they need stricter moral guidance from society.

Source.

As far has him being right, you tell me. Is the argument quoted above correct?

And if it doesn't matter whether or not Steve Sailer is a white supremacist, why do you and your fellow travelers insist so fervently that's he's not?

He's clearly arguing that black people are inferior and that their presence in society is a problem. And you and your fellow travelers clearly agree with him.

So why deny it?

CaptainHowdy · Sep 24, 2019

johnny karate said:
Steve Sailer coined the phrase "Late Obama Age Collapse".

If anyone else uses that phrase, they are quoting Steve Sailer.

tanabear used that phrase in the OP.

Therefore, tanabear quoted Steve Sailer.

I don't agree with your logic here. But I'm sure that I or somebody else will be able to use this against you in the future so I'm not going to dispute it.

If Steve Sailer isn't a white supremacist, then how does the following argument differ from one that a white supremacist would make?

Source.

As far has him being right, you tell me. Is the argument quoted above correct?

No. I don't agree with what he said here. I don't believe that black people 'tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups.' First of all, I don't know what "poorer native judgement" means. I know that impulse control and planning for the future seems to be more difficult for the population of black people as a whole. But that is seen across all educational levels. I also don't agree that "they need stricter moral guidance from society." The moral guidance black people receive from society should be equal to that received by all members of society. The implication that society should allocate more resources to helping black people is insulting to black people and unfair for everyone else.

And if it doesn't matter whether or not Steve Sailer is a white supremacist, why do you and your fellow travelers insist so fervently that's he's not?

I haven't read enough of what Steve Sailor has written to say whether or not he is a white supremacist. That label is so loosely applied today as to be meaningless.

He's clearly arguing that black people are inferior and that their presence in society is a problem. And you and your fellow travelers clearly agree with him.

So why deny it?

Clearly you're seeing a white supremacist everywhere you see somebody acknowledging differences between groups of people.

There are alot of people who don't consider themselves bigoted who say that systemic institutionalized pervasive and endemic racism and hatred is not the reason for the dearth of Asians playing professional football in the United States. Some of them have actually said that there are physical differences between African-Americans and, say, Laotians, that make African-Americans better football players. These people are clearly saying Asians are inferior. Are all these people black supremacists?

johnny karate · Sep 24, 2019

CaptainHowdy said:
I don't agree with your logic here. But I'm sure that I or somebody else will be able to use this against you in the future so I'm not going to dispute it.

I'm not employing some special form of logic.

I'm pointing out observable reality.

No. I don't agree with what he said here. I don't believe that black people 'tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups.' First of all, I don't know what "poorer native judgement" means. I know that impulse control and planning for the future seems to be more difficult for the population of black people as a whole. But that is seen across all educational levels. I also don't agree that "they need stricter moral guidance from society." The moral guidance black people receive from society should be equal to that received by all members of society. The implication that society should allocate more resources to helping black people is insulting to black people and unfair for everyone else.

Would you agree that Steve Sailer's statement is racist?

I haven't read enough of what Steve Sailor has written to say whether or not he is a white supremacist. That label is so loosely applied today as to be meaningless.

That doesn't mean white supremacists don't actually exist.

And your choice to remain willfully ignorant doesn't mean that Steve Sailer isn't a white supremacist.

Clearly you're seeing a white supremacist everywhere you see somebody acknowledging differences between groups of people.

I've accused exactly one person of being a white supremacist. And that would be the person making the white supremacist argument.

There are alot of people who don't consider themselves bigoted who say that systemic institutionalized pervasive and endemic racism and hatred is not the reason for the dearth of Asians playing professional football in the United States. Some of them have actually said that there are physical differences between African-Americans and, say, Laotians, that make African-Americans better football players. These people are clearly saying Asians are inferior. Are all these people black supremacists?

We are talking about a specific thing that a specific person argued, with all necessary context provided.

Your attempt to derail the conversation down an "everybody is racist" rabbit hole does not interest me.

tanabear · Sep 29, 2019

Mumbles said:
Of course, it could also suggest that high-profile, unjustified police shootings cause people to lose confidence in police, and to take matters into their own hands..

The shooting of Michael Brown was thoroughly investigated, even by Obama's DOJ, and they concluded that it was justified based on the circumstances. They even admitted that 'Hands up, Don't Shoot' was a lie. Freddie Gray died in the back of the police van. There was no shooting involved at all. This is an indication of how the media creates false realities and narratives and even after they are shown to be false they are still believed by the Left.

There are many white people who are shot by the police yet there is rarely an outbreak of white rioting causing the crime rate to soar.

kookbreaker said:
This paragraph alone shows that you never lived in a city, let alone one that underwent a renaissance in the early 90s. Things went from "roll up the sidewalks at 5PM" to "holy crap where did all these people come from?!". This was because people were finding cities to be entertaining places to visit but also live.

NYC, always more expensive than other East Coast cities, quickly rose to the level where a person making 6 figures could struggle to make ends meet. This does have the effect lowering crime, but its a rather harsh way to do it.

That is a major reason crime dropped further in NYC. There are other causes, of course, its never as simple as one reason.

People found some cities nice places to live again because the crime rate was falling. This is obviously going to lead to higher property values and more posh people moving in. Our once great cities have been hemorrhaging population since the 1960s due to high crime and other forms of social dysfunction. Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg brought crime down with their 'stop and frisk' program. As Bloomberg wrote,

"Stop and frisk’ keeps New York safe: New York is the safest big city in the nation, and our crime reductions have been steeper than any other big city’s. For instance, if New York City had the murder rate of Washington, D.C., 761 more New Yorkers would have been killed last year. If our murder rate had mirrored the District’s over the course of my time as mayor, 21,651 more people would have been killed. That’s more than Georgetown University’s student body, faculty and administrative staff.

Based on crime data, we know that more than 90 percent of those 21,651 individuals would have been black and Hispanic. Some of them would have been children."

Between 2006 and 2012 there were roughly half a million stops per year. This largely drove the criminal element out of NYC.

johnny karate said:
You started this thread by quoting white supremacist Steve Sailer.

You’ve made more than one argument that bears a striking similarity to arguments that white supremacist Steve Sailer has made.

It’s weird that you keep denying it.

If you believe in the legitimacy of these arguments, why should it matter to you if they happen to promote white supremacy?

Aren’t you proud of the superiority of your race?

The only line that came from Steve Sailer was "Late Obama Age collapse." The arguments are also similar to the ones made by Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder and Candace Owens. Are they "white supremacists" too?

But if quoting from Steve Sailer is such a sin then others are guilty too. Harvard professor Steven Pinker, beloved by the Left, included Steve Sailer's essay, Cousin Marriage Conundrum, in The Best American Science and Nature Writing of 2004 anthology.

Is Steve Pinker a white supremacist?

p.s. Why don't you read the essay. You could learn a lot.

Ziggurat said:
I don't know what you consider "massive", but from 2011 to 2014, the average number of murders per year in Baltimore was 2014.5 (min 196, max 233). From 2015 to 2018, the average was 328.5 (min 309, max 344) (source). That seems like a significant increase, even if you don't want to use the word "massive". Lead doesn't explain the increase. I don't think race does either, in case that wasn't clear. But there was definitely an increase, and I think an explanation is warranted.

Baltimore has experienced its highest per capita murder rates in the city's history over the past few years. We do know what caused the spike. The riots in April 2015 lead to a huge spike in the murder rate the very next month.

April protests bring May unrest.

"May has become Baltimore's deadliest month in more than four decades with more than 100 shootings and more than 40 homicides. Read coverage from many of those killings and shootings here."

Darat said:
It's been sometime since the president raised the issue of crime in Baltimore as a national concern, what actions has he taken to deal with his problem?

It Trump wanted to do anything about Baltimore's high crime rate the Left would want to impeach him for it. The Democratic Left controls the city of Baltimore. Why don't they do anything about it?

kookbreaker · Sep 29, 2019

tanabear said:
People found some cities nice places to live again because the crime rate was falling. This is obviously going to lead to higher property values and more posh people moving in. Our once great cities have been hemorrhaging population since the 1960s due to high crime and other forms of social dysfunction.

Cities started losing population post-WW2 when the car and suburbs came into being. Crime was a result of that, not a cause.

Cities started recovering population by 1990, despite still-high crime figures because the suburbs had proved boring to too many.

Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg brought crime down with their 'stop and frisk' program. As Bloomberg wrote,

"Stop and frisk’ keeps New York safe: New York is the safest big city in the nation, and our crime reductions have been steeper than any other big city’s. For instance, if New York City had the murder rate of Washington, D.C., 761 more New Yorkers would have been killed last year. If our murder rate had mirrored the District’s over the course of my time as mayor, 21,651 more people would have been killed. That’s more than Georgetown University’s student body, faculty and administrative staff.

Based on crime data, we know that more than 90 percent of those 21,651 individuals would have been black and Hispanic. Some of them would have been children."

Between 2006 and 2012 there were roughly half a million stops per year. This largely drove the criminal element out of NYC.

Stop & Frisk does not work. By 2006 crime was already on the way down. The program did little more than drive a wedge between police and minorities.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016...be-ignored-stop-and-frisk-doesnt-work/494996/

Chicago tried Stop & Frisk. Found it didn't work, even though they turned it up to 11.

https://www.chicagoreporter.com/chicago-tried-stop-and-frisk-it-didnt-work/

Chicago has experience with stop-and-frisk. Under Police Supt. Garry McCarthy, we had the most intense stop-and-frisk program in the nation *– using the practice at four times the rate that New York did at the height of its stop-and-frisk program, according to a 2015 ACLU study.

Stop & Frisk is another one of those neo-con simple solutions for complex problems. Its all bluster and acting all tough like a bully, but does nothing in the long run.

And you still obviously know nothing about city life.

Mumbles · Sep 29, 2019

tanabear said:
The shooting of Michael Brown was thoroughly investigated, even by Obama's DOJ, and they concluded that it was justified based on the circumstances. They even admitted that 'Hands up, Don't Shoot' was a lie. Freddie Gray died in the back of the police van. There was no shooting involved at all. This is an indication of how the media creates false realities and narratives and even after they are shown to be false they are still believed by the Left.

There are many white people who are shot by the police yet there is rarely an outbreak of white rioting causing the crime rate to soar.

Unstated is the fact that the DoJ also found that the Ferguson PD was intentionally targeting black people for unjustified fines, court fees, and so forth, to fill city coffers so that money could be spent on projects like a new police station (but not, interestingly, education). The only rioting here occured because of this, and the wild police overreaction to the neighborhood's grieving, which we all watched on national and international television. And in fact, it was Black Lives Matter, along with local residents, that turned out to protect stores that were being looted, sometimes physically throwing the looters out of stores they had broken into. Apparently the police were all tuckered out from attacking protestors in broad daylight.

Similarly, the only major "race" riot in recent Baltimore history occured on the day of Freddie Gray's funeral, when there were *no* protests. Police forced high schoolers on their way home off of the public transit they needed to get home, kettled them in for hours, and then fired rubber bullets and smoke grenades at them...with the excuse being that the trapped students refused to go home. The not tired and isolated teens responded in kind, and the end result is what we all saw on tv.

But hey, great job highlighting mass police misconduct there, but all you're really doing is highlighting hostile policing as a potentially explosive problem.

(well, no, you're also acting as an apologist for white supremacism, but everyone's figured that one out already.)

People found some cities nice places to live again because the crime rate was falling. This is obviously going to lead to higher property values and more posh people moving in. Our once great cities have been hemorrhaging population since the 1960s due to high crime and other forms of social dysfunction. Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg brought crime down with their 'stop and frisk' program. As Bloomberg wrote,

"Stop and frisk’ keeps New York safe: New York is the safest big city in the nation, and our crime reductions have been steeper than any other big city’s. For instance, if New York City had the murder rate of Washington, D.C., 761 more New Yorkers would have been killed last year. If our murder rate had mirrored the District’s over the course of my time as mayor, 21,651 more people would have been killed. That’s more than Georgetown University’s student body, faculty and administrative staff.

Sadly for you, NYC crime rates had already begun to fall under mayor Dinkens, when Guiliani was helping to start a racist police riot to launch his mayoral campaign (you know, the exact type that you insist doesn't happen - and for far less than a murder). And it continued to fall when Bi Blasio backed off of the racist program, proving predictions of an amazing return to 1994-level crime false.

ETA: And of course, Bloomberg famously responded to reports that black and Hispanic people were less likely to be found with weapons on them than white people were under his version of "Stop and Frisk" by stating that police should harrass and beat (which is what we're discussing here) black and Hispanic people even more than before. So, that's basically you citing another white supremacist.

(oddly enough, NYC had one of the more aggressive lead abatement programs under democratic mayors. Coincidence? Well, nothing is ever *proven* in the sciences, but there's an interesting correlation here.)

The only line that came from Steve Sailer was "Late Obama Age collapse." The arguments are also similar to the ones made by Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder and Candace Owens. Are they "white supremacists" too?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Larry Elder and Candace Owens are grifters, too. Sam Seder has repeatedly stated that Elder's entire public persona is just a front, and Owens hated Dolt 45 right up to the point where she got paid off by Turning Points, at which point she stole the name "Blexit" from a charity to continue her grift.

But if quoting from Steve Sailer is such a sin then others are guilty too. Harvard professor Steven Pinker, beloved by the Left, included Steve Sailer's essay, Cousin Marriage Conundrum, in The Best American Science and Nature Writing of 2004 anthology.

Is Steve Pinker a white supremacist?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Baltimore has experienced its highest per capita murder rates in the city's history over the past few years. We do know what caused the spike. The riots in April 2015 lead to a huge spike in the murder rate the very next month.

Click to expand...

Actually, we know it wasn't *just* the riot that police set off. There was also the brazen corruption of police groups like the Gun Trace Task Force, along with a series of high-profile drug plantings that police caught on their own body cameras, which led to a general lack of recruitment - and a deemphasis on detective work and witness protection, which led to people being either unwilling or unable to cooperate with police, and a lack of support for prosecutions of violent criminals at the state level.

It Trump wanted to do anything about Baltimore's high crime rate the Left would want to impeach him for it. The Democratic Left controls the city of Baltimore. Why don't they do anything about it?

Click to expand...

If Cheeto Benito tried to do anything about violent crime anywhere, it would probably involve putting nonwhite immigrants in concentration camps (oh, wait, he already did that), harassing nonviolent drug offenders (oops - he did this, too), and pushing for random state-backed violence towards black people (wait - that was one of his campaign proposals). And yes, these would be worthy of impeachment - or rather, they already are.

johnny karate · Sep 29, 2019

tanabear said:
The only line that came from Steve Sailer was "Late Obama Age collapse." The arguments are also similar to the ones made by Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder and Candace Owens. Are they "white supremacists" too?

Why would I think that? Just because you might have referred to their work?

I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do some reading outside of what white supremacists have written on anti-Semitic websites.

But if quoting from Steve Sailer is such a sin then others are guilty too. Harvard professor Steven Pinker, beloved by the Left, included Steve Sailer's essay, Cousin Marriage Conundrum, in The Best American Science and Nature Writing of 2004 anthology.

Is Steve Pinker a white supremacist?

I don’t know. Is he? You seem to be more familiar with the work of white supremacists than I am.

Regardless, I’ve not argued that quoting a white supremacist automatically makes you a white supremacist, so I’m not sure what you think your point is.

Dr. Keith · Oct 17, 2019

Trump Wins!
- logger, probably

carlitos · Oct 25, 2019

Mumbles said:
Lemme help you out a little.

Here's a basic discussion.

THis medium.com article (yes, I know) includes a map of lead paint violations and oh would you look at that, they're almost entirely in black neighborhoods in the city.

And of course, since there hasn't actually been any massive surge in murders or violent crime, any actual need to explain is rather questionable.

If anyone is interested, I'd highly recommend this podcast and the references contained within. There is an interview with a woman in the Bronx struggling with lead paint and her children that almost made me cry.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/the-stakes/episodes/the-stakes-people-vs-dutch-boy-lead

tanabear · Nov 23, 2019

kookbreaker said:
Cities started losing population post-WW2 when the car and suburbs came into being. Crime was a result of that, not a cause.

Cities started recovering population by 1990, despite still-high crime figures because the suburbs had proved boring to too many.

Huh? Crime was a result of people leaving cities??? The crime rate came down for the first 20 years after WWII. The crime rate started surging around 1964.

By saying that the suburbs are too boring you are just saying that white people are too boring. This is the standard Leftist spiel about how "diversity" makes us more "vibrant." But your argument is wrong anyway. These Democratic Leftist cities have been losing population since the 1990s.

St Louis - Pop
1990 396,685
2000 348,189
2010 319,294

Baltimore - Pop
1990 736,014
2000 648,654
2010 620,961

Chicago - Pop
1990 2,783,911
2000 2,896,016
2010 2,695,598

Why have this once great American cities lost population when the total population of our country has been soaring? Because Leftists rule has turned these places into garbage dumps.

Mumbles said:
Unstated is the fact that the DoJ also found that the Ferguson PD was intentionally targeting black people for unjustified fines, court fees, and so forth, to fill city coffers so that money could be spent on projects like a new police station (but not, interestingly, education). The only rioting here occured because of this, and the wild police overreaction to the neighborhood's grieving, which we all watched on national and international television. And in fact, it was Black Lives Matter, along with local residents, that turned out to protect stores that were being looted, sometimes physically throwing the looters out of stores they had broken into. Apparently the police were all tuckered out from attacking protestors in broad daylight.

Black people are pulled over more because they commit more crimes and break the law more frequently. It is like asking why are men stopped and pulled over more than women? Because men break the law more.

But regarding the Ferguson study, it showed that while blacks make up 67% of the city's population they account for 85% of all traffic stops. That is an 18-point gap. In New York City, blacks are 25% of the population, but account for 55% of those stopped for traffic offenses -- a 30-point gap. The Ferguson police are about 80% white while the NYC police are only 54% white. So you would have to believe that institutional racism is more entrenched in the more minority dominated NYPD than in Ferguson.

carlitos said:
If anyone is interested, I'd highly recommend this podcast and the references contained within. There is an interview with a woman in the Bronx struggling with lead paint and her children that almost made me cry.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/the-stakes/episodes/the-stakes-people-vs-dutch-boy-lead

But the murder rate increasing 57% in one in year(2016) in Chicago doesn't make you cry. Lead paint is a tragedy, the murder rate is a statistic.

Mumbles · Nov 23, 2019

tanabear said:
But regarding the Ferguson study, it showed that while blacks make up 67% of the city's population they account for 85% of all traffic stops. That is an 18-point gap. In New York City, blacks are 25% of the population, but account for 55% of those stopped for traffic offenses -- a 30-point gap. The Ferguson police are about 80% white while the NYC police are only 54% white. So you would have to believe that institutional racism is more entrenched in the more minority dominated NYPD than in Ferguson.

Yeah, and?

The rest of this is you just continuing to say your usual racist nonsense, I won't bother.

smartcooky · Nov 24, 2019

The rest of your post is filled with the usual racist bollocks we have come to expect from you, but the following points are worth addressing, if only to shoot them down.

tanabear said:
But regarding the Ferguson study, it showed that while blacks make up 67% of the city's population they account for 85% of all traffic stops.

tanabear said:
In New York City, blacks are 25% of the population, but account for 55% of those stopped for traffic offenses

Clearly, you have never heard of racial profiling

tanabear said:
The Ferguson police are about 80% white while the NYC police are only 54% white. So you would have to believe that institutional racism is more entrenched in the more minority dominated NYPD than in Ferguson.

Yup

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...titutional-racism-exists-within-police-forces

https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...icers-who-see-racial-bias-in-the-nypd/384106/

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

https://nypost.com/2018/07/25/93-percent-of-pot-arrests-are-of-people-of-color-nypd-watchdog/

kellyb · Nov 24, 2019

Re: the lead hypothesis, I looked into it pretty deeply a while back, because at first glance it does seem to be a sort of holy grail for explaining and preventing urban violence.

The problem is that rich white kids growing up in great neighborhoods in the 60-80's were more lead poisoned than the most lead poisoned urban kids today. I think the lead itself is a confounding factor, or a marker for social ills.

Darat · Nov 24, 2019

Has Trump not fixed his city yet?

kookbreaker · Nov 24, 2019

tanabear said:
Huh? Crime was a result of people leaving cities??? The crime rate came down for the first 20 years after WWII. The crime rate started surging around 1964.

Again, your simple Republican solutions^TM don't grasp that things don't happen instantly. It took time for the effects of suburbanization to kick in. Its not like the boys came home from Europe to suburban communities already built and ready for them (with a few exceptions). Also, it can take time for budget issues to really show their weaknesses.

By saying that the suburbs are too boring you are just saying that white people are too boring.

No, I am saying the suburbs are boring. If I was saying white people are boring I would also say that towns and rural communities were boring. But those things have community, culture, and history that suburbs often lack.
There's a reason that "Mall culture" became a thing, and that's that suburbs often lack the community of cities or towns, and the resources of cities.

If you want to claim what you said above, well you are the one who put that shoe one, declared it a perfect fit, and then said it hurts.

This is the standard Leftist spiel about how "diversity" makes us more "vibrant." But your argument is wrong anyway. These Democratic Leftist cities have been losing population since the 1990s.

Cherry picking *again*. Why don't you look at the populations of Settle, San Francisco , Portland, or Philadelphia, or Boston? Are they somehow 'not leftist'?!

St Louis - Pop
1990 396,685
2000 348,189
2010 319,294

Baltimore - Pop
1990 736,014
2000 648,654
2010 620,961

Chicago - Pop
1990 2,783,911
2000 2,896,016
2010 2,695,598

Why have this once great American cities lost population when the total population of our country has been soaring?

Because not every city has been able to experience the urban rennaissance that the 90's brought. Often there are good reasons for a continuing decline. Baltimore, for example, has lost its shipbuilding and other industries to overseas competition.

Because Leftists rule has turned these places into garbage dumps.

I know simplistic GOP minds want simple answers to complex problems, but this simply is not true no matter how many times you repeat it, or try to sneak in a cowardly cheap shot answer in a month after your slunk away from the thread.

Also, to call these cities 'garbage dumps' is incredibly insulting. Typical of a Trump follower who only knows simple answer and insults everything they cannot understand, I know, but maybe you could restrain yourself instead of showing what dirt-bag opinions you have.

carlitos · Nov 24, 2019

Nazis paste black crime stats and anti immigrant nonsense at other forums. It’s part of their plan.

tanabear · Jan 16, 2020

Baltimore: The new year picks up where the old one left off

Baltimore experienced its highest per-capita murder rate in 2019. The city has not been able to get a hold on the out-of-control crime rate which exploded after the riots in April 2015. The very next month the murder rate surged.

"Baltimore broke its annual per capita homicide record after reaching 342 killings Friday. With just over 600,000 residents, the city hit a historically high homicide rate of about 57 per 100,000 people after recent relentless gunfire saw eight people shot — three fatally — in one day and nine others — one fatally — another day. The new rate eclipses that of 1993, when the city had a record 353 killings but was much more populous before years of population exodus."
Associated Press

"The department has cleared only 31 percent of homicides in 2019, one of the lowest rates in the last 30 years."
Crime and Justice News

The city recorded 348 homicides last year, its fifth consecutive year with more than 300 murders and the most violent year ever on a per-capita basis.

The new year is picking up where the old one left off.

"Baltimore police are looking into several shootings over the weekend that killed five people, officials said -- more violence in a city that saw its homicide rate surge in 2019. A total of 12 people were shot on Saturday and Sunday -- five of whom died and seven injured."
UPI

smartcooky said:
Clearly, you have never heard of racial profiling

Yes, but profiling is clearly linked to groups who are more criminally prone. We profile men more than women. We profile young people more than old people. We understand that these groups have a greater propensity to criminal acts than others. Yet we aren't wringing our hands over this supposed injustice. It is only when it comes to race that profiling becomes some sort of moral turpitude.

American Renaissance publishes their "Color of Crime" report every few years. From the data it is clear why racial profiling occurs.

In 2014, 374 people were arrested for murder. Their races were as follows:
White: 2.9 percent
Black: 61.8 percent
Hispanic: 31.8 percent
Asian: 2.7 percent
Other: 0.8 percent

While the population percentages are:
32.8 percent white
22.6 percent black
28.9 percent Hispanic
13.0 percent Asian

It doesn't take a genius to figure out if you wish to prevent crimes from occurring to begin with which groups will have to be profiled more frequently.

kookbreaker said:
Because not every city has been able to experience the urban rennaissance that the 90's brought. Often there are good reasons for a continuing decline. Baltimore, for example, has lost its shipbuilding and other industries to overseas competition.

The decline in the shipbuilding industry has nothing to do with the problems that plague Baltimore. The rot goes much deeper than that. Parts of Baltimore have been described as a "food desert" The high-level of street crime prevents businesses from staying afloat. The educational system is abysmal. In 1/3rd of the public high schools not a single student scored proficient in math. This is all despite a high per-student expenditure. In short, the city is suffering from a legacy of liberalism.

kookbreaker said:
Also, to call these cities 'garbage dumps' is incredibly insulting. Typical of a Trump follower who only knows simple answer and insults everything they cannot understand, I know, but maybe you could restrain yourself instead of showing what dirt-bag opinions you have.

It was Kimberly Klacik, a black female Trump supporter, who first brought attention to the atrocious conditions in Baltimore. She is now running for a Congressional seat in Maryland. She had visited areas where the trash had not been picked up in over six months! I think "garbage dump" is a pretty apt and accurate description. One could always use more colorful language but it is not needed in this case.

You can watch a video on the part of Baltimore she filmed. Can you come up with a better term than "garbage dump"?

Darat · Jan 16, 2020

Has Trump not solved the problem yet?

Puppycow · Jan 16, 2020

tanabear said:
American Renaissance publishes their "Color of Crime" report every few years. From the data it is clear why racial profiling occurs.

Interesting source you cite there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Renaissance_(magazine)

American Renaissance (AR or AmRen) is a monthly white supremacist online publication founded and edited by Jared Taylor.[1][2][3][4] It is published by the New Century Foundation, which describes itself as a "race-realist, white advocacy organization".[5][6] It has also been described as "alt-right" by The Guardian.[7]

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/american-renaissance

Steve · Jan 16, 2020

Puppycow said:
Interesting source you cite there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Renaissance_(magazine)

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/american-renaissance

Sources cited can provide more info than just the words quoted.

kookbreaker · Jan 16, 2020

(White Supremacy BS snipped)

tanabear said:
The decline in the shipbuilding industry has nothing to do with the problems that plague Baltimore. The rot goes much deeper than that.

OK, again you demonstrate that you have zero clue about the struggles of cities. Loss of industry was and is a brutal blow to many urban centers. Pretending that some 'liberalism' magic somehow crushes the cities shows your psycho-partisanship even if your white supremacy sources did not.

And again, what about other cities that have been run by 'liberals' yet have seen strong growth? Why do you only cherry pick a few select struggling cities? Don't bother answering, I'm pretty sure we all know the answer.

Not that you ever answer anything, just make pathetic, wormy attempts at counterpunching with your favorite racist source of the day.

(Worship of Tanabear's new wingnut welfare recipient snipped)

tanabear · Feb 20, 2020

Darat said:
Has Trump not solved the problem yet?

Trump supporter, Scott Pressler (AKA @ThePersistence ), has organized a clean up of Baltimore and many other Leftist cities. He was excoriated by the Baltimore Sun and other Leftist hatemongers for his noble efforts.

"Whatever he says his motives were, Mr. Presler’s presence in Baltimore reinforces the tired image of our failing urban cores. That the poor people in this dilapidated city can’t take care of their own neighborhoods and all the public officials around them have failed as well. The bureaucratic, all-talk Democrats strike again."
Baltimore Sun

Daryle Lamont Jenkins tweeted: "HEADS UP, BALTIMORE! If you are anywhere near N. Fulton Ave. and Westwood Ave, a few well-known neo-fascist gloryhounds that like to pull stunts and pretend they are not - namely Jack Posobiec and Scott Pressler - are in Baltimore making like they are doing a cleanup of the city."

In other words, pointing out Liberal failure and incompetence is a no-no. Even worse, it is probably racist; only Fascists like clean cities and streets.

Puppycow said:
Interesting source you cite there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Renaissance_(magazine)

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/american-renaissance

Interesting source you cite there. The $PLC.

The Southern Poverty Law Center Is Both a Terrible Place to Work and a Place That Does Terrible Work

It appears that Michael Bloomberg, who is currently seeking the Democratic nomination for President, is in full agreement with "white supremacists". He said in a recording from 2015:

"Ninety-five percent of your murders, murderers and murder victims, fit one M.O. You can just take the description, Xerox it, and pass it out to all the cops. They are male, minorities, 16 to 25. That’s true in New York, that’s true in virtually every city. And that’s where the real crime is. You’ve got to get the guns out of the hands of people that are getting killed...So one of the unintended consequences is people say, ‘Oh my God, you are arresting kids for marijuana that are all minorities.’ Yes, that’s true. Why? Because we put all the cops in minority neighborhoods. Yes, that's true. Why do we do it? Because that’s where all the crime is..."
Michael Bloomberg.

Are the Democrats going to nominate a white supremacist for President?

kookbreaker said:
OK, again you demonstrate that you have zero clue about the struggles of cities. Loss of industry was and is a brutal blow to many urban centers. Pretending that some 'liberalism' magic somehow crushes the cities shows your psycho-partisanship even if your white supremacy sources did not.

The lack of industry and jobs in many of these cities is due to the high crime rate and social dysfunction. Liberals just have the arrow of causality backwards. If lack of industry led to conditions like Baltimore much of America would look like Venezuela. It doesn't.

kookbreaker said:
And again, what about other cities that have been run by 'liberals' yet have seen strong growth? Why do you only cherry pick a few select struggling cities? Don't bother answering, I'm pretty sure we all know the answer.

The original post was regarding three cities where Black Lives Matter had their biggest triumphs, Chicago, Baltimore and St. Louis. But almost all of our most violent cities have Democratic leadership. Many cities run by Democrats do function well. But these aren't cities where Democrats have a monopoly on power. If they screw up too much the the populace may elect a Republican (See Giuliani and Bloomberg in NYC). Political parties can act as checks on each other by preventing too much dysfunction. Once this check is removed corruption, mismanagement and lassitude set in.

smartcooky · Feb 20, 2020

tanabear said:
The lack of industry and jobs in many of these cities is due to the high crime rate and social dysfunction.

This is just complete bollocks.... you've got it arse about face - the high crime rate is the RESULT of a lack of industry and jobs.

You really haven't a ******* clue about industry in general, let alone any of the multitude of reasons industry and manufacturing undergo downturns. You have about as much idea as Rand Paul... i.e. zero

How do your BS ideas explain Los Angeles?

Under Mayor Eric Garcetti (a Democrat who was elected to office in 2013) Los Angeles has been undergoing an economic boom time. It has been outperforming New York, Chicago and the rest of the USA in

- GDP per capita
- growth in jobs
- home prices
- numbers of new start businesses
- growth of personal income
- corporate equity
- global trade and transportation
- reduction in municipal debt
- reduction in homelessness

Los Angeles has become the most productive of the five biggest U.S. cities. There is a reason why the Elon Musks and the Jeff Bezos' of this world want to run their 21st century companies out of Los Angles and California in general, despite the much more strict OSHA rules... because those are go-ahead places under sensible government looking for sustainable growth. And while Trump tries to buy votes by propping up industries that are dead in the water such as coal, California leads the USA in electricity generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy sources, including geothermal power, wind power, and solar power. California has very aggressive renewable energy goals and that the energy industry is booming, thanks to the leadership's foresight in strongly investing in it.

This is what happens when you have a city with leaders, Democrats, who are most interested in looking after their citizens, rather than Repugnicans, who are more interested in looking after their campaign contributors and their electability at the next election

kookbreaker · Feb 20, 2020

I guess we ended up on this guy's daily work docket.....

tanabear said:
Trump supporter, Scott Pressler (AKA @ThePersistence ), has organized a clean up of Baltimore and many other Leftist cities. He was excoriated by the Baltimore Sun and other Leftist hatemongers for his noble efforts.

"Whatever he says his motives were, Mr. Presler’s presence in Baltimore reinforces the tired image of our failing urban cores. That the poor people in this dilapidated city can’t take care of their own neighborhoods and all the public officials around them have failed as well. The bureaucratic, all-talk Democrats strike again."
Baltimore Sun

Daryle Lamont Jenkins tweeted: "HEADS UP, BALTIMORE! If you are anywhere near N. Fulton Ave. and Westwood Ave, a few well-known neo-fascist gloryhounds that like to pull stunts and pretend they are not - namely Jack Posobiec and Scott Pressler - are in Baltimore making like they are doing a cleanup of the city."

Yawn.

Stunts don't impress me and probably don't do much for the locals either. This antics are custom designed to pander to the right wing types.

Making a big noise about your cleanup efforts is little more than ego-driven activism. I can point to hundreds of community leaders who do cleanups and other community activities without making trying to make it about themselves.

In other words, pointing out Liberal failure and incompetence is a no-no. Even worse, it is probably racist; only Fascists like clean cities and streets.

I can see that propaganda stunts like this are really working on you. You're an easy mark.

Are the Democrats going to nominate a white supremacist for President?

Probably not. I wouldn't use Bloomberg as your shining example. He is racist and pretty sexist to boot. There's little doubt about that now. We've already shown you how Stop & Frisk didn't work and you ignored it. Bloomberg was all about the S&F.

The lack of industry and jobs in many of these cities is due to the high crime rate and social dysfunction.

Wow. Just wow. Just when I think you can't be any more wrong you go and make a boner like this one. Smartcooky already destroyed you on this, but i just have to say...man you are off base.

The original post was regarding three cities where Black Lives Matter had their biggest triumphs, Chicago, Baltimore and St. Louis.

Your original said nothing about where BLM had triumphs. Instead your post was cherry picking cities and trying to blame BLM for any shift in crime. You lied with statistics, you lied about the state of cities in the US, you lied about S&F, and you lied about your sources not being white supremacists.

But almost all of our most violent cities have Democratic leadership.

As do most of our safer ones. In fact most cities in the US have Democratic leadership, yet somehow your spotlight always seems to land on the cities that are struggling.

Many cities run by Democrats do function well. But these aren't cities where Democrats have a monopoly on power.

Quiet often they do.

If they screw up too much the the populace may elect a Republican (See Giuliani and Bloomberg in NYC).

Someday maybe you should look up Staten Island and understand why Republicans can get elected in NYC. Not to mention what 72 million will buy you in the Big Apple.

Also, as bad as Guiliani is, and how coked up he's gotten with his Trump servitude, neither he nor Bloomberg (as bad as *he* is) were of the Trump ilk.

Political parties can act as checks on each other by preventing too much dysfunction. Once this check is removed corruption, mismanagement and lassitude set in.

This might actually be true, but the simple fact is that the GOP has been actively hostile to urban areas and have pandered to the baser elements of GOP racism in rural (and suburban) communities. So when you whine about any city leadership take a look at your own side and ask why all they manage to do are stunts like the cleanup even you dawn over above, or they just look at urban centers and say "C'moooooon, give us a shot!!!! We've only done everything to screw over your budgets and systems at the federal level....why won't you elect us when we have your worst interests at heart?!?"

You might get a GOP mayor here and there, but as we've also shown you in this thread, they ain't exactly of the neo-con breed the GOP loves these days.

Mumbles · Feb 20, 2020

kookbreaker said:
Stunts don't impress me and probably don't do much for the locals either. This antics are custom designed to pander to the right wing types.

Making a big noise about your cleanup efforts is little more than ego-driven activism. I can point to hundreds of community leaders who do cleanups and other community activities without making trying to make it about themselves.

Exactly, and they don't really appreciate GOP operatives showing up and pretending to care for a camera, when the community does that, *and* works with City Hall to get better cleanup programs, *and* holds demonstrations outside Hogan's office since, as it turns out, he's been steering city funds away from the city and towards communities that voted for him.

Remember what I said about the GOP being a massive contributor to the various issues?

I can see that propaganda stunts like this are really working on you. You're an easy mark.

People like whateverbear believe it, because they *want* to believe it. All that blather about the "democrat plantation", the obviously racist view of black people as passive nonparticipants in politics? That's just how *they* view black Americans. For all their sneering about black history courses, the truth is that they desperately need to take a few before they open their mouths.

Probably not. I wouldn't use Bloomberg as your shining example. He is racist and pretty sexist to boot. There's little doubt about that now. We've already shown you how Stop & Frisk didn't work and you ignored it. Bloomberg was all about the S&F.

Anyone who wants can search "Bloomberg", with my username, under the advanced search function, and understand exactly what I think of him. This post from 2013 is a good example. Yes, he's a racist, and Stop & Frisk was a racist policy, and I'm hoping his nomination is sunk after last night.

Your original said nothing about where BLM had triumphs. Instead your post was cherry picking cities and trying to blame BLM for any shift in crime. You lied with statistics, you lied about the state of cities in the US, you lied about S&F, and you lied about your sources not being white supremacists.

In addition, these are actually three cities that had recent, massive police scandals - Ferguson and Baltimore both saw mass police attacks on communities, Chicago had Laquan McDonald.

Also, let's discuss Chicago. Since Emmanuel got run out and the DA replaced with someone that decided to actually concentrate on violent crime instead of random harassment, as well as working with mediation groups like BLM, violent crime has fallen - with homicides down 35% from 2016 to 2019.

Also, as bad as Guiliani is, and how coked up he's gotten with his Trump servitude, neither he nor Bloomberg (as bad as *he* is) were of the Trump ilk.

As I said, Guiliani hasn't changed in any way since he was the half-competant, vindictive mayor of NYC, so there's no need to explain any "change". The truth is, NYC had both impressive lead removal programs, and a large number of funded violence intervention programs - which is why violent crime dropped regardless of how many cops were running around beating up black kids (aka. "Stop and Frisk").

Ziggurat · Feb 20, 2020

smartcooky said:
- reduction in homelessness

Um...
L.A.'s homelessness surged 75% in six years.

California leads the USA in electricity generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy sources, including geothermal power, wind power, and solar power.

Yeah, I wouldn't go bragging about California's electricity infrastructure if I were you. It's a cluster ****. California has high electricity rates, it has to import more than twice as much electricity as any other state, and we saw last year the devastating consequences of inadequate power transmission infrastructure.

California has very aggressive renewable energy goals and that the energy industry is booming, thanks to the leadership's foresight in strongly investing in it.

If they had actual foresight they would invest in nuclear too.

smartcooky · Feb 20, 2020

Ziggurat said:
Um...
L.A.'s homelessness surged 75% in six years.

That very much depends on who you talk to.... some sources give you 12%, some 9%, some 20%. It also depends on how various sources define it and who they include. Some include people in trailer parks and in state shelter housing as "homeless", some do not. The situation improved in the year between 2013 and 2014, but it has gotten worse again. California also isn't the only place in the USA where homelessness is surging - Oregon, Nevada, Washington are others with similar homeless figures.

The thing is, homelessness is a crisis, but its not an unsolvable one, and when it comes down to it, its a very small proportion of LA county's population - 58,000 out of 10.2 million (about half of one percent) who are homeless.

Of course, we all know that Trump has been bashing California over their homeless crisis, but we also know that narcissists like Trump don't care about anyone but themselves, let alone poor people - unless, of course, they can use them for their own benefit - he is just using the crisis a political tool for his own ends.

Ziggurat said:
Yeah, I wouldn't go bragging about California's electricity infrastructure if I were you. It's a cluster ****.

Nice dodge. I wasn't talking about energy infrastructure, I was talking about the drive towards renewables.

But hey, if you want to talk infrastructure, well the whole infrastructure of the USA is a *************** right now...power, rail, roading, communications... the works. And your Dear Leader conspires with Moscow Mitch and his "do-nothing but stack the courts" Senate every day to do nothing about it. The Democrats have tried negotiating with him, but he throws his toys and storms off when they wont give him what he wants in exchange. Fixing infrastructure should not be about political gamesmanship, it should be about doing what is right for the nation

Ziggurat said:
California has high electricity rates, it has to import more than twice as much electricity as any other state, and we saw last year the devastating consequences of inadequate power transmission infrastructure.

California has the highest population of any US State - 30% more than the next state, and almost twice that of the next after that. At the moment it is outgrowing its own infrastructure, but again they are not unsolvable problems

Ziggurat said:
If they had actual foresight they would invest in nuclear too.

I agree, but after Stellafield, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima and over 160 near misses or events in the last ten years in the USA alone, and with California being one of the highest earthquake risks in the USA, I can understand why some are reluctant to do so.

* * * *

In any case, we have strayed a bit off topic. My intention was to address Tanabear's BS claim that crime leads to loss of industry and jobs. He's wrong - the reverse is true.

Ziggurat · Feb 21, 2020

smartcooky said:
The situation improved in the year between 2013 and 2014, but it has gotten worse again.

Quite the reduction in homelessness you've got there.

California also isn't the only place in the USA where homelessness is surging - Oregon, Nevada, Washington are others with similar homeless figures.

It's got some special features, though.

The thing is, homelessness is a crisis, but its not an unsolvable one

LA isn't solving it.

Nice dodge. I wasn't talking about energy infrastructure, I was talking about the drive towards renewables.

In what context? A thread about renewables?

No. The point was to tout California's political leadership. But doing well in one limited area when a bunch of other stuff is falling to pieces isn't doing well.

In any case, we have strayed a bit off topic. My intention was to address Tanabear's BS claim that crime leads to loss of industry and jobs. He's wrong - the reverse is true.

They can both be true. They both are true. It isn't one or the other, they feed into each other. So... you're both half-wrong and half-right.

tanabear · Feb 22, 2020

smartcooky said:
This is just complete bollocks.... you've got it arse about face - the high crime rate is the RESULT of a lack of industry and jobs.

One of the hallmarks of ghetto life is that once something breaks it stays broken. This differs from non-ghetto life where if something goes wrong it still can be improved. If deindustrialization caused crime to soar then you would expect Pittsburgh to be as violent as Detroit or Baltimore. It isn't. The steel industry in Pittsburgh was wrecked in the 1980s yet the city seemed to bounce back okay. It did not turn into cauldron of violence and decay like so many other urban centers. Paul Krugman even commented on the different fortunes between Pittsburgh and Detroit.

"Pittsburgh is showing a lot of resilience; it seems to have managed to diversify its economy, and in fact is more than matching national employment performance. Detroit, despite the auto rescue, isn’t — and, of course, its center did not hold...Detroit’s disaster isn’t just about industrial decline; it’s about urban decline, which isn’t the same thing."
Paul Krugman

High levels of crime and social dysfunction prevented Detroit from bouncing back the same way Pittsburgh did. The US murder rate went up some 25% percent between 2014 and 2016. Yet the murder rate did not increase at all in Pittsburgh during the years Black Lives Matter was the most prominent. Chicago alone so a 57% increase in the murder rate in one year, 2016. This had nothing to do with deindustrialization or lack of jobs.

smartcooky said:
How do your BS ideas explain Los Angeles?

Under Mayor Eric Garcetti (a Democrat who was elected to office in 2013) Los Angeles has been undergoing an economic boom time. It has been outperforming New York, Chicago and the rest of the USA in

- GDP per capita
- growth in jobs
- home prices
- numbers of new start businesses
- growth of personal income
- corporate equity
- global trade and transportation
- reduction in municipal debt
- reduction in homelessness

Really?? You are going to go with Los Angeles as a model city? California as a whole has veered to one-party rule over the past few decades and the decline is obvious. It is called the Golden State, but today it would be more apt to call it the Garbage Dump State. California has the lowest quality of life compared to any other US state. San Francisco has one of the highest property crime rates in the nation, Los Angeles looks like a third world city, the state is bottom of the barrel in education and it has 1/3rd of all welfare recipients. But to a Leftist this is a Utopian dreamland.

kookbreaker said:
Yawn.

Stunts don't impress me and probably don't do much for the locals either. This antics are custom designed to pander to the right wing types.

So what prevents the city of Baltimore from cleaning up their own garbage? It is the elected officials in Baltimore that don't do much for the locals.

kookbreaker said:
We've already shown you how Stop & Frisk didn't work and you ignored it. Bloomberg was all about the S&F.

That's right. New York City has a population 14 times that of Baltimore, yet Baltimore has more murders, not just per capita, but in total.

kookbreaker said:
Your original said nothing about where BLM had triumphs.

The actual name of the post is: Trump vs Elijah: Baltimore, BLM and urban decay. I wrote: This sudden and sharp increase in the murder rate has been dubbed the Ferguson effect, the Black Lives Matter effect or simply Late Obama Age collapse.

kookbreaker said:
This might actually be true, but the simple fact is that the GOP has been actively hostile to urban areas and have pandered to the baser elements of GOP racism in rural (and suburban) communities.

How can the GOP be hostile to these urban areas if none are elected to any high-office in these cities? Why are Trump supporters organizing clean-ups in these areas if they are so hostile? The article from the Baltimore Sun would seem to indicate that the hostility is directed at the Trump supporters, not the other way around.

smartcooky · Feb 23, 2020

tanabear said:
One of the hallmarks of ghetto life is that once something breaks it stays broken. This differs from non-ghetto life where if something goes wrong it still can be improved. If deindustrialization caused crime to soar then you would expect Pittsburgh to be as violent as Detroit or Baltimore. It isn't. The steel industry in Pittsburgh was wrecked in the 1980s yet the city seemed to bounce back okay. It did not turn into cauldron of violence and decay like so many other urban centers. Paul Krugman even commented on the different fortunes between Pittsburgh and Detroit.

"Pittsburgh is showing a lot of resilience; it seems to have managed to diversify its economy, and in fact is more than matching national employment performance. Detroit, despite the auto rescue, isn’t — and, of course, its center did not hold...Detroit’s disaster isn’t just about industrial decline; it’s about urban decline, which isn’t the same thing."
Paul Krugman

High levels of crime and social dysfunction prevented Detroit from bouncing back the same way Pittsburgh did. The US murder rate went up some 25% percent between 2014 and 2016. Yet the murder rate did not increase at all in Pittsburgh during the years Black Lives Matter was the most prominent. Chicago alone so a 57% increase in the murder rate in one year, 2016. This had nothing to do with deindustrialization or lack of jobs.

Really?? You are going to go with Los Angeles as a model city? California as a whole has veered to one-party rule over the past few decades and the decline is obvious. It is called the Golden State, but today it would be more apt to call it the Garbage Dump State. California has the lowest quality of life compared to any other US state. San Francisco has one of the highest property crime rates in the nation, Los Angeles looks like a third world city, the state is bottom of the barrel in education and it has 1/3rd of all welfare recipients. But to a Leftist this is a Utopian dreamland.

So what prevents the city of Baltimore from cleaning up their own garbage? It is the elected officials in Baltimore that don't do much for the locals.

That's right. New York City has a population 14 times that of Baltimore, yet Baltimore has more murders, not just per capita, but in total.

The actual name of the post is: Trump vs Elijah: Baltimore, BLM and urban decay. I wrote: This sudden and sharp increase in the murder rate has been dubbed the Ferguson effect, the Black Lives Matter effect or simply Late Obama Age collapse.

How can the GOP be hostile to these urban areas if none are elected to any high-office in these cities? Why are Trump supporters organizing clean-ups in these areas if they are so hostile? The article from the Baltimore Sun would seem to indicate that the hostility is directed at the Trump supporters, not the other way around.

Darat · Feb 23, 2020

I'm just amazed that Trump hasn't got his country sorted out yet!

kookbreaker · Feb 23, 2020

tanabear said:
One of the hallmarks of ghetto life is that once something breaks it stays broken. This differs from non-ghetto life where if something goes wrong it still can be improved. If deindustrialization caused crime to soar then you would expect Pittsburgh to be as violent as Detroit or Baltimore. It isn't. The steel industry in Pittsburgh was wrecked in the 1980s yet the city seemed to bounce back okay. It did not turn into cauldron of violence and decay like so many other urban centers. Paul Krugman even commented on the different fortunes between Pittsburgh and Detroit.

"Pittsburgh is showing a lot of resilience; it seems to have managed to diversify its economy, and in fact is more than matching national employment performance. Detroit, despite the auto rescue, isn’t — and, of course, its center did not hold...Detroit’s disaster isn’t just about industrial decline; it’s about urban decline, which isn’t the same thing."
Paul Krugman

High levels of crime and social dysfunction prevented Detroit from bouncing back the same way Pittsburgh did. The US murder rate went up some 25% percent between 2014 and 2016. Yet the murder rate did not increase at all in Pittsburgh during the years Black Lives Matter was the most prominent. Chicago alone so a 57% increase in the murder rate in one year, 2016. This had nothing to do with deindustrialization or lack of jobs.

I find it amusing that you hold up Pittburgh as a shining example given that they haven't had a Republican Mayor since the 30's.

Everything you posted is more confirmation bias BS.

So what prevents the city of Baltimore from cleaning up their own garbage? It is the elected officials in Baltimore that don't do much for the locals.

You really never lived anywhere near a city, have you.

Plenty of issue come up. Dumping grounds that are on private property (and thus cannot be cleaned by city workers), accessibility issues, trash piling up in areas that people don't actually live in so nobody is there to report it to City Hall.

But what the city doesn't need is a bunch of self-promoting wingnuts to come in and make a huge fuss and show over what multiple neighborhood groups do almost on a weekly basis.

That's right. New York City has a population 14 times that of Baltimore, yet Baltimore has more murders, not just per capita, but in total.

No matter how much you bluster and make false comparisons: Stop and Frisk did. not. work. That's been explained to you several times, with cites, and even noting that a harsher version of S&F was employed in Chicago and it. did. not. work!

The actual name of the post is: Trump vs Elijah: Baltimore, BLM and urban decay. I wrote: This sudden and sharp increase in the murder rate has been dubbed the Ferguson effect, the Black Lives Matter effect or simply Late Obama Age collapse.

Yes, we can all recall your OP with its gleeful citing of open racitsts.

How can the GOP be hostile to these urban areas if none are elected to any high-office in these cities?

By cutting budgets for things that work on the State and Federal level if it means a dime goes towards those evil, evil cities with all the dark skinned people. This has been standard operating GOP tactics for decades.

Why are Trump supporters organizing clean-ups in these areas if they are so hostile?

Because they are attention seeking clowns more interested in trying to score points than actually helping people.

The article from the Baltimore Sun would seem to indicate that the hostility is directed at the Trump supporters, not the other way around.

[/QUOTE]

Because the history of alt-right types is not one that is friendly to cities and helping them with any problems. Anyone would rightly be suspicious of an offer of 'help' from a group with long-standing hostility towards them.

I'd say you are incredibly naive, but I think you know exactly what game you are playing. What surprises me is that you think you are actually fooling anyone.

carlitos · Feb 23, 2020

kookbreaker said:
You really never lived anywhere near a city, have you.

.

I have traveled over much of the world and saying that LA looks like a third world city is a sign of blindness, ignorance or insanity for sure.

smartcooky · Feb 23, 2020

carlitos said:
I have traveled over much of the world and saying that LA looks like a third world city is a sign of blindness, ignorance or insanity for sure.

It certainly is.. for a "third world city" it sure is strange that so many people want to live there. California had a GDP of US$3.1 trillion in 2019... If it were a country, its would make it fifth largest in the world behind Germany, and ahead of France and England!

Sure, the homelessness is not a good look, but its just one aspect of the city. If I was told that I have to live in a city in America, and I was given a choice, it would between New York and Los Angeles - and LA would probably get the nod because I hate cold winters!

Of course, I am an unashamed, dyed-in-the-wool space nerd, so if I could live anywhere in the USA, it would be Cocoa Beach.

Suddenly · Feb 23, 2020

kookbreaker said:
I find it amusing that you hold up Pittburgh as a shining example given that they haven't had a Republican Mayor since the 30's.

I'm trying to figure out how the Pittsburgh renaissance which took shape during the late 80s/early 90s has something to do with BLM.

Anyway, part of the Baltimore BLM episode resulted in the more or less same consent decree that Pittsburgh has been operating under since 1997, so just a terrible example of how police accountability leads to crime. Just lololol. Couldn't have chosen a worse example if he tried.

I mean, the East Pittsburgh police department freaking disbanded because of an officer shooting. Straight up closed shop because the people there were mad the cops weren't up to the same accountability standards as Pittsburgh police.

smartcooky · Feb 23, 2020

kookbreaker said:
You really never lived anywhere near a city, have you. What surprises me is that you think you are actually fooling anyone.

Its hard for one to live near a city when one never leaves the basement of mummy's house in Hicktown, USA.

When I see posters on this forum claiming that a city such as Los Angeles is "third world" it makes me laugh (and cry a little inside as well). These people really have utterly no ******* clue what third world means, let alone what it actually looks like.

They should try visiting Vietnam, or Laos, or India and Cambodia (I have been to all of them) and see what REAL third-world looks like.

tanabear · Apr 15, 2020

Baltimore 2020: Journal of the Plague Year

Imagine going back in time and showing H.L. Mencken, "the sage of Baltimore", a newspaper headline from the future of his city. What would he expect? Flying cars, colonies on Mars, an end to crime, disease and hunger. No. This is what he would see.

"Baltimore Mayor Begs Residents To Stop Shooting Each Other So Hospital Beds Can Be Used For Coronavirus Patients."

H.L. Mencken would think that some disaster must have befallen western civilization and society returned in some ways to the dark ages. He would not be wrong. People can become inured to anything and the fact that we've become so blasé about these kinds of stories indicates how far we have fallen.

p.s. In Edgar Rice Burroughs' Tarzan series, the love interest of Tarzan, Jane, is from Baltimore. In a modern re-telling Jane could not take Tarzan to Baltimore if she wanted to show him any sign of civilization.

Lurch · Apr 15, 2020

tanabear said:
Imagine going back in time and showing H.L. Mencken, "the sage of Baltimore", a newspaper headline from the future of his city. What would he expect? Flying cars, colonies on Mars, an end to crime, disease and hunger. No. This is what he would see.

"Baltimore Mayor Begs Residents To Stop Shooting Each Other So Hospital Beds Can Be Used For Coronavirus Patients."

H.L. Mencken would think that some disaster must have befallen western civilization and society returned in some ways to the dark ages. He would not be wrong. People can become inured to anything and the fact that we've become so blasé about these kinds of stories indicates how far we have fallen.

p.s. In Edgar Rice Burroughs' Tarzan series, the love interest of Tarzan, Jane, is from Baltimore. In a modern re-telling Jane could not take Tarzan to Baltimore if she wanted to show him any sign of civilization.

And in an exercise in selective, blinkered perception, you lose sight of the larger, sad picture. And that is the combination of these three principal, tragic blights:

- The US's neglect of communities of color.
- A for-profit health care system that operates near the margins of capacity.
- The nation's societal-level gun fetishization.

kookbreaker · Apr 15, 2020

More bad faith arguments from a white supremacist who has utterly failed to defend his bigoted claims & cherry picking in the past. Not even worth the discussion at this point.

Mumbles · Apr 16, 2020

Lurch said:
And in an exercise in selective, blinkered perception, you lose sight of the larger, sad picture. And that is the combination of these three principal, tragic blights:

- The US's neglect of communities of color.
- A for-profit health care system that operates near the margins of capacity.
- The nation's societal-level gun fetishization.

As it turns out, crappy policing is still a fourth, but not because of the horrors of civil rights groups marching through the streets:

There were too few detectives with too little training, supervision and equipment. And they had more cases than they could handle. Instead of catching killers, they were placing unsolved investigations on the back burner within a matter of weeks, with no effective process for dealing with the cold cases that inevitably piled up.

...

A well respected law enforcement think tank had produced the taxpayer-funded report in 2016 to help reverse a worrying decline in solved cases.

But instead of implementing the plans, the Baltimore Police Department mostly sat on them — and kept them from the public — as it churned through three police commissioners and the city racked up another thousand homicides. In the process, the department’s rate of solving cases tumbled even lower, to roughly half the national average for cities of Baltimore’s size.

Turns out, cops still had plenty of time to drive around and harass people at random, but almost nobody doing actual detective work. If only there were someone in this thread that already told y'all...

Mumbles said:
Actually, we know it wasn't *just* the riot that police set off. There was also the brazen corruption of police groups like the Gun Trace Task Force, along with a series of high-profile drug plantings that police caught on their own body cameras, which led to a general lack of recruitment - and a deemphasis on detective work and witness protection, which led to people being either unwilling or unable to cooperate with police, and a lack of support for prosecutions of violent criminals at the state level.

That "How dare the negro say that we don't treat him kindly!" white supremacist crap can go take a walk.

Trump vs Elijah: Baltimore, BLM and urban decay

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