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Tags Danielle Stella , Ilhan Omar , minnesota elections , Minnesota politics , Twitter incidents

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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:28 PM   #41
Donal
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At some point, you should probably just accept someone is not interested in a good faith discussion and stop helping them derail the conversation.

That said, have any Republicans denounced these statements?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:39 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think the difference between the average republican politician and Stella is that she seems to honestly believe this crazy stuff as opposed to just cynically advancing conspiracy theories for political advantage.

She's got the crazy real bad. The Republican CT grifters are much more reprehensible, because they know what they say is bogus and they still do it.
She claimed to support QAnon as well, back in the summertime, and one of her staffers later said that she wasn't a real supporter, just doing it to attract supporters.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rep-il...ticles&via=rss
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
She claimed to support QAnon as well, back in the summertime, and one of her staffers later said that she wasn't a real supporter, just doing it to attract supporters.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rep-il...ticles&via=rss
This is the same lady who tried to shoplift 200+ items at once and claimed to have no recollection of it due to being in a mental illness crisis. Her state of mind and intent are probably in constant flux.

This lady gets way too much attention. She hasn't even cleared the primary yet. Anyone can register for a primary. It's not really accurate to describe her as Ilhan Omar's challenger unless she secures the nomination.

Other nutbags are also running. Laura "chain myself to Twitter's door" Loomer is running in Florida. That seems much more like a publicity stunt, or as a hail Mary attempt to force social media companies to allow her back on after being banned (being a political candidate and all).
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:15 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Go peddle your outrage and your conspiracy theories somewhere else.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Please identify what "conspiracy theories" I have 'peddled' in my post. If I did so, you should have no problem identifying them.
I repeat: please identify what 'conspiracy theories" I have "peddled".
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I repeat: please identify what 'conspiracy theories" I have "peddled".
Sorry, I missed this earlier. Here you go:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Rather than acknowledging that Stella obviously has mental problems and that her fantasies of Omar's 'treason' are a result of those problems, you imply there is some basis to them. Unless she's "actually proven guilty of treason"?

Do you think using "so to speak" absolves you from not so subtly promoting this conspiracy theory?
Your theory is that I'm conspiring to promote a conspiracy theory about Omar's "treason".
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:23 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
have any Republicans denounced these statements?
It seems that Stella is perennially crazy. The most sensible course of action is probably to ignore her statements. Validating them as campaign rhetoric that needs to be addressed would probably just make the situation worse.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:23 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sorry, I missed this earlier. Here you go:



Your theory is that I'm conspiring to promote a conspiracy theory about Omar's "treason".
Excuse me. Could you highlight the relevant parts? I see nothing in Stacy's post that talks about or implies conspiracy theories.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:28 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Excuse me. Could you highlight the relevant parts? I see nothing in Stacy's post that talks about or implies conspiracy theories.
The whole post is Stacyhs's theory. I'm not going to highlight the whole post. Theory is that I'm conspiring to promote something.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:30 PM   #49
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I can haz congresshunal seet?
Quote:
The Star Tribune reports Stella was arrested again in April after allegedly stealing $40 in cat food from a Cub grocery store. A police report says she told an officer she forgot to pay.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I can haz congresshunal seet?
Have any Republicans denounced her crimes?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:43 PM   #51
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So this woman appears to be a bit of nutcase. For a non-US person how and why has the party accepted her as a candidate? Does the party have no preliminary filters to say that if you want to be on the party ticket you have to meet some basic criteria like not being a criminal. I can understand that anyone should be able to throw their hat in the ring as an independent or create their own party (in the UK there are a number of 'mad' parties like the monster raving loony party and UKIP, but generally the main parties try to keep out nutters).
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:47 PM   #52
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Accusing someone of a horrible act for which there is zero evidence is immoral and slimy. To further call for the death penalty makes it outright despicable and, under the circumstances, highly dangerous and likely to invoke violence. To make up this story to fan religious and ethnic prejudice just to gain political advantage? Well, I don’t have words adequate to label the accuser... The “If true” is a gutless rhetorical dodge. If my uncle was my aunt...

In terms of logic: zero evidence in favor of a proposition and zero evidence against it does not make the probability of the proposition 50/50! There is zero evidence I can fly by flapping my arms and zero evidence against it, but...

Many people have had their lives and careers destroyed by evidence-less accusations. I don’t find this type of character assassination anything but evil.

Last edited by Giordano; 2nd December 2019 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:49 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
So this woman appears to be a bit of nutcase. For a non-US person how and why has the party accepted her as a candidate? Does the party have no preliminary filters to say that if you want to be on the party ticket you have to meet some basic criteria like not being a criminal. I can understand that anyone should be able to throw their hat in the ring as an independent or create their own party (in the UK there are a number of 'mad' parties like the monster raving loony party and UKIP, but generally the main parties try to keep out nutters).
I don't believe that a party has to "accept" you as a candidate. You declare yourself a candidate, and then you go about getting signatures to get on the ballot or whatever.

I think that declaring any legal requirements to be part of the political party like "can't be a criminal" would be unconstitutional, but I could be wrong about that.

Last edited by carlitos; 2nd December 2019 at 01:50 PM. Reason: added quote for context
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
So this woman appears to be a bit of nutcase. For a non-US person how and why has the party accepted her as a candidate? Does the party have no preliminary filters to say that if you want to be on the party ticket you have to meet some basic criteria like not being a criminal. I can understand that anyone should be able to throw their hat in the ring as an independent or create their own party (in the UK there are a number of 'mad' parties like the monster raving loony party and UKIP, but generally the main parties try to keep out nutters).
Political party membership in the US is opt-in. The party's candidate can be anyone who presents themselves to the party for consideration. The gatekeeping mechanism is a secret ballot of all the registered party members (in some states, all the registered voters who wish to vote, regardless of party). Party leadership has zero say in whether a citizen is allowed to put themselves forward for consideration.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:57 PM   #55
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As a follow-up for both theprestige and carlitos's post, the parties do have some leverage with candidates. In particular, political parties can provide support both in the form of money and expertise which can be critical for candidates running for office. And the parties can refuse to provide both to a candidate who steps out of line. It's very, very hard to win an election if the party doesn't support you. But the party still can't kick you out, and it's possible to win an election without the support of the party.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:29 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
There is zero evidence I can fly by flapping my arms and zero evidence against it, but...
Actually, that's not quite true. Or rather, it's only superficially true.

There is a LOT of evidence against it: what we know of aerodynamics, past attempts at un-powered flight by others, previous personal performance (you've never done it before), no existing exemplars, etc, etc.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:38 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sorry, I missed this earlier. Here you go:



Your theory is that I'm conspiring to promote a conspiracy theory about Omar's "treason".

She never said you were "conspiring" to promote anything, just that you were giving Stella some undeserved credibility with your word choice, "unless she's actually proven guilty of treason."

Disagree? I challenge you to provide a quote supporting your claim you were "conspiring" to do anything....yet another challenge you will absolutely fail to meet and instead choose to pretend like I never issued it, because your position can't be defended and you damn well know it.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:40 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Have any Republicans denounced her crimes?

Does it matter anymore? Whether some have denounced her crimes or not, what's relevant (and you would realize this if you were engaging in good faith) is that far too many Republicans are perfectly OK with her crimes, Trump's crimes, or the crimes of any Republican any more.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:55 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
She never said you were "conspiring" to promote anything, just that you were giving Stella some undeserved credibility with your word choice, "unless she's actually proven guilty of treason."
Fair enough. I inferred the "conspire" part from context and body of work. I've answered Stacy's question, but I'm not going to defend the claim. Since it's not working for you, I withdraw it. Stacy, I'm sorry for accusing you of peddling a conspiracy theory. In reality you were just making an unfounded accusation against me, based on a misreading of what I meant by "so to speak".

Quote:
Disagree? I challenge you to provide a quote supporting your claim you were "conspiring" to do anything....yet another challenge you will absolutely fail to meet and instead choose to pretend like I never issued it, because your position can't be defended and you damn well know it. : rolleyes :
Cool story, bro.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 05:02 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Thank you! Pictures are hung, people are hanged.
Ever see Blazing Saddles?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 05:57 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
This particular incident is typical of elected Republicans anymore.
I suspect she won't get the nomination. That's no cause for hope being as the Trumptrash she's appealing to won't care that she advocated political violence but rather that she shoplifted pet care supplies.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 06:06 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Fair enough. I inferred the "conspire" part from context and body of work. I've answered Stacy's question, but I'm not going to defend the claim. Since it's not working for you, I withdraw it. Stacy, I'm sorry for accusing you of peddling a conspiracy theory.
Nuh uh. That's a backhanded "apology" if I've ever read one. You cannot quote me accusing you of 'conspiring' to do anything and realized you're backed into a corner you cannot get yourself out of. "Since it's not working for you, I withdraw it," isn't an admittance of error; it's an attempt to placate Cabbage by patronizing him.

Exactly what from the "context and body of (my) work" led you to infer I was accusing you of a conspiracy?

Quote:

In reality you were just making an unfounded accusation against me, based on a misreading of what I meant by "so to speak".

Nope. I didn't misread anything. It was a direct reference to the sentence immediately preceding it. It had nothing to do with you thinking "Ms Omar would make an attractive dickgirl." You just thought, incorrectly, that you were being clever in the way you were doing it.

Quote:
Obviously she shouldn't be executed unless she's actually proven guilty of treason. That said, I'd have no problem if Ms Omar were, so to speak,... hung,"
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Old 2nd December 2019, 07:27 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Thank you! Pictures are hung, people are hanged.
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Speak for yourself!
Perhaps they would rather that she hung than hanged. Kinky, depraved bastards that they are....
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:17 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post

I imagine it's only a matter of time before a US politician is murdered by someone who buys in to rhetoric by the woman in the OP. I don't imagine it will change much.

.
There’s been similar attempts in the USA:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017...eball_shooting
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:51 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
There’s been similar attempts in the USA:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017...eball_shooting
Who was the person running for office who's rhetoric convinced Hodgkinson to carry out this attack?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 02:25 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I don't believe that a party has to "accept" you as a candidate.
AIUI, this is accurate. A year or two ago there was a thread on here about a literal Nazi standing for the Repulican party in some district because there were no other candidates. I questioned why the Republican party couldn't disassociate themselves from him and was told by several posters in no uncertain terms that that's not how the American political system works and that any set-up where there are requirements for someone to stand as a candidate (such as reflecting the philosophy or political opinions of the party in question, or of not being a literal Nazi) would be a bad system.

Seems very odd to me, but that appears to be what the situation is.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 05:09 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The whole post is Stacyhs's theory. I'm not going to highlight the whole post. Theory is that I'm conspiring to promote something.
Sorry, but "to work towards" is not the definition of "to conspire".

You're playing a silly word game, and I doubt anyone will be fooled.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 06:02 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Who was the person running for office who's rhetoric convinced Hodgkinson to carry out this attack?
Perhaps I was too subtle. Sometimes crazy or zealous people will take actions that are not reasonably justified. In the baseball case, he was a fan of Bernie. That doesn’t mean that Bernie had done anything wrong or should tone down his rhetoric.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 06:10 AM   #69
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Did Bernie suggest murder? However, we do have evidence of the current President (then "candidate for-"overtly suggesting ("kiddingly of course") the murder of his political opponent.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 06:23 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Perhaps I was too subtle. Sometimes crazy or zealous people will take actions that are not reasonably justified. In the baseball case, he was a fan of Bernie. That doesn’t mean that Bernie had done anything wrong or should tone down his rhetoric.
Being too subtle is one thing. Completely missing the point (Violent behavior specifically inspired by the rhetoric of a political figure) is a different animal altogether.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 08:54 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
AIUI, this is accurate. A year or two ago there was a thread on here about a literal Nazi standing for the Repulican party in some district because there were no other candidates. I questioned why the Republican party couldn't disassociate themselves from him and was told by several posters in no uncertain terms that that's not how the American political system works and that any set-up where there are requirements for someone to stand as a candidate (such as reflecting the philosophy or political opinions of the party in question, or of not being a literal Nazi) would be a bad system.

Seems very odd to me, but that appears to be what the situation is.
Arthur Jones, Illinois third Congressional district. He was the only republican that ran in the primary in 2018, so he won. His opponent, William Lipinski, is the most conservative Democrat in the House of Representatives, so there isn't much point in opposing him in that particular district, which is pretty conservative / democrat leaning. Like blue dog democrats, lots of police and firemen, etc.

Lipinski almost lost the Democratic primary to a progressive candidate in 2018, and he will probably lose in 2020, so it might be a competitive election next time.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 09:12 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
AIUI, this is accurate. A year or two ago there was a thread on here about a literal Nazi standing for the Repulican party in some district because there were no other candidates. I questioned why the Republican party couldn't disassociate themselves from him and was told by several posters in no uncertain terms that that's not how the American political system works and that any set-up where there are requirements for someone to stand as a candidate (such as reflecting the philosophy or political opinions of the party in question, or of not being a literal Nazi) would be a bad system.

Seems very odd to me, but that appears to be what the situation is.
Look at it this way: Several people want to be the party's candidate. How does the party decide? The way the major US parties do it, ever registered party member casts a secret ballot for one of the aspiring nominees. This is the purpose of the primary process.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 09:45 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Arthur Jones, Illinois third Congressional district. He was the only republican that ran in the primary in 2018, so he won.
It just seems silly to me that a party can't actually reject a candidate, but instead is locked in to a position where they have to give the message that "yup, that guy represents our values", even when he doesn't.

IIRC, the Republicans had actually prevented him from running several times prior by using some loophole or other, but he managed to bypass that this time round. And so they were in the position where they were legally required to have him as the person representing their party in that district and took a lot of flack for having an actual Nazi representing them, even though there was nothing they could do to prevent it and had previously used every means possible to prevent it.

Anyway, this isn't really the thread for this. Nothing more productive is going to come from this discussion this time round than it did last time round, and it's only a minor digression in this thread in any case.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 09:48 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It just seems silly to me that a party can't actually reject a candidate, but instead is locked in to a position where they have to give the message that "yup, that guy represents our values", even when he doesn't.
They can, that is what primaries are supposed to determine.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:17 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It just seems silly to me that a party can't actually reject a candidate, but instead is locked in to a position where they have to give the message that "yup, that guy represents our values", even when he doesn't.
Parties can and do reject candidates? How do you not understand this?

You're complaining that bad candidates can exist in a temporarily unrejected state, between the time they put themselves forward and the time the party makes its decision. But this is not a real problem. Also, I'm not sure how you would fix it.

How would you fix it? Who should decide who will represent a party? How should the decision be made?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:20 AM   #76
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Also, the thread title is misleading. This woman is not yet Omar's opponent. And probably won't be.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:32 AM   #77
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
They can, that is what primaries are supposed to determine.
As I say, this is a digression that should probably be carried on, if at all, in the thread that is actually about this particular situation. With that in mind, this will be my last post on this subject in this thread.

I'll quote from his Wikipedia page:
Quote:
In 2017, Jones declared his intent to run for the Republican nomination for Congress from Illinois's 3rd congressional district in 2018; he was the only declared candidate of that party. His candidacy was repudiated by the Illinois Republican Party[4][3] and the Republican National Committee. RNC spokesperson Michael Ahrens stated, "We condemn this candidate and his hateful rhetoric in the strongest possible terms".[13] Jones won the primary unopposed on March 20, 2018 and moved on to face Democratic incumbent Dan Lipinski in the general election. Following his primary victory, Republican party officials encouraged members not to vote for Jones.[14]

In January 2018, he became the only Republican candidate for Illinois's 3rd congressional district, despite that party's repeated disapproval of him gaining this position, as well as the controversy around him being a candidate.[15][16] Despite the GOP disavowing, 26.5 percent of voters still voted for him in the general election on November 6, 2018, as he lost by 47 points.
So there you have a situation where the party can't actually say "this guy doesn't represent us" but instead is forced to allow him to be the Republican candidate in that election. This is silly.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:42 AM   #78
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It's worth mentioning that the Illinois Republican party has been a dumpster fire since 2004. Alan Keyes and Mike Ditka were considered viable Senate candidates to fill Obama's seat. Jack Ryan had his divorce records unsealed and released to the media to kneecap his campaign. The Republican governor before Blagojevich was in jail. That they weren't able to convince some functioning adult Republican to run a guaranteed losing Congressional campaign on Chicago's southwest side in 2018 is not surprising.

Plus it gives everyone an excuse to use that phrase from the Blues Brothers - "I hate Illinois nazis."
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:42 AM   #79
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
As I say, this is a digression that should probably be carried on, if at all, in the thread that is actually about this particular situation. With that in mind, this will be my last post on this subject in this thread.

I'll quote from his Wikipedia page:


So there you have a situation where the party can't actually say "this guy doesn't represent us" but instead is forced to allow him to be the Republican candidate in that election. This is silly.
It is democracy in action. It is putting the choice of the candidate in the hands of the people, instead of in the hands of the party elite. Not sure either one really works better though you have Trump as a result of one and Boris Johnson as a result of the other.

Who should choose, the voters or the party bosses? The primary system seems to result in it being harder to say that the leader does not really represent the values of the base as the base chose the leader. You do get odd situtations where they are not running candidates so anyone who signs up can run and get in.

It is a problem of not having competitive elections that some seats do not draw serious candidates.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:43 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It just seems silly to me that a party can't actually reject a candidate, but instead is locked in to a position where they have to give the message that "yup, that guy represents our values", even when he doesn't.

---snip---.

If that were the system here then Bernie Sanders would not be allowed to run for the Democratic Party nomination, and the debates would be nowhere near so amusing.
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