2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker - Part II

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Aridas said:
Biden releases scorching campaign video of world leaders laughing at Trump

It's not bad... and was fairly certainly quite easy to make, given Trump. On this, I do think that Biden/his campaign did a good job. Given Biden's propensity for gaffes, though, I do suspect that he would get laughed at a bit, too.
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Here's another link because that one won't play for me.

My absolute favorite is the missed handshake, one minute in the greeter reaches for Melanie's hand, Donald thinks she's reaching for his. :dl:
 
d4m10n said:
Nearly any American with antebellum African American ancestry will have ancestors who were slave-owners and ancestors who were slaves.
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Perhaps you missed that Harris has no antebellum African American ancestors? For that matter, neither did Obama.
 
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Brainster said:
How dare they express their opinions! One would almost think this was a forum for the vigorous exchange of ideas, instead of a Democrat echo chamber.
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No one says they cannot express their opinions.
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Brainster said:
Perhaps you missed that Harris has no antebellum African American ancestors? For that matter, neither did Obama.
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Correct on the technical point, but it's not like Jamaica doesn't have a sordid history with slavery, too.

Looking past all of that, whether someone does or doesn't have an ancestor who was a slave just doesn't seem all that relevant to me (not sure who introduced it).

Any person of color who has spent more than a few years in America is probably decently qualified to speak about the experience of persons of color in America in terms of attitudes and perspectives that need to be tossed into the dustbin of history and goals that need to be reached.
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
Correct on the technical point, but it's not like Jamaica doesn't have a sordid history with slavery, too.

Looking past all of that, whether someone does or doesn't have an ancestor who was a slave just doesn't seem all that relevant to me (not sure who introduced it).

Any person of color who has spent more than a few years in America is probably decently qualified to speak about the experience of persons of color in America in terms of attitudes and perspectives that need to be tossed into the dustbin of history and goals that need to be reached.
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I introduced the slave-owning thing and it was just my point that it was ironic. Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold that the sins of the father or the grandfather or the great-grandfather shall be visited upon the son or dauther. We are each responsible for our own transgressions.

Everybody else seemed to think that I was saying something bad about Obama (whose slave-owning ancestors were on the white side of the family) or Kamala (whose were on the black side).

The point that many descendants of slaves may also be the descendants of slave-owners due to rape did not occur to me at the time, because it is not the case with either Harris or Obama (at least not as far as I know).
 
acbytesla said:
No one says they cannot express their opinions.
Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove breach of rule 12
.
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Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to remove response to breach of rule 12

I speak (type) my opinions carefully and honestly (mostly on the first part unless I get my panties in a knot). But I obviously have a dramatically different political worldview that you do. I accept this without attributing any malice or dishonesty towards you.

I actually accept that you feel the way that you do towards Trump. That you feel the minor imperfections on the Democrats are but pimples on a Playboy Playmate's behind compared to the perfidy and whatever that is Trump.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, Buttigieg's parents being communists will become a huge issue if he gets the nomination. I think it will be a bigger issue than that he's gay. You feel otherwise. That's your opinion and unlike you, I accept that it's not something dark inside you.
 
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Brainster said:
Unlike a lot of people, I don't hold that the sins of the father or the grandfather or the great-grandfather shall be visited upon the son or dauther. We are each responsible for our own transgressions.
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Which people are you referring to, specifically?

Brainster said:
Whether you choose to believe it or not, Buttigieg's parents being communists will become a huge issue if he gets the nomination.
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Mmm. You may be right. Just like Al Gore saying that he invented the internets was a huge issue for him.

That's taking into account that Al Gore never said that in the first place, of course.
 
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Aridas said:
Mmm. You may be right. Just like Al Gore saying that he invented the internets was a huge issue for him.

That's taking into account that Al Gore never said that in the first place, of course.
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And Pete Buttigieg's parents were never communists.:thumbsup:
 
Brainster said:
Whether you choose to believe it or not, Buttigieg's parents being communists will become a huge issue if he gets the nomination. I think it will be a bigger issue than that he's gay. You feel otherwise. That's your opinion and unlike you, I accept that it's not something dark inside you.
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Oh, great, do we once again get to listen to you mansplain to us that it's big issue because otherwise why would it keep getting brought up in this very thread............by you??

:rolleyes:
 
Brainster said:
Poisoning the well much?

I speak (type) my opinions carefully and honestly (mostly on the first part unless I get my panties in a knot). But I obviously have a dramatically different political worldview that you do. I accept this without attributing any malice or dishonesty towards you.
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Pardon the interjection but yes, I think this is true. And even though we disagree on, er, just about everything, I appreciate your often sensible comments in this thread. And I don't appreciate the tribal bs you're replying to.
 
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acbytesla said:
I DON'T BELIEVE IT. Just like I didn't believe Jeremiah Wright was a big issue. Just like I didn't believe Obama's birthplace was a big issue. Or a countess list of other nothinburgers that people like Rush and Glen Beck will ramble on endlessly about.
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There are people who still genuinely believe that universities, unions, the Democratic Party, etc. have been extensively infiltrated by Communist agents who are just waiting for the signal to rise up and overthrow the government. Reliving the glory days of the Red Scare.
 
Armitage72 said:
There are people who still genuinely believe that universities, unions, the Democratic Party, etc. have been extensively infiltrated by Communist agents who are just waiting for the signal to rise up and overthrow the government. Reliving the glory days of the Red Scare.
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And Pete's parents being communist would affect these peoples' votes how?
 
Armitage72 said:
There are people who still genuinely believe that universities, unions, the Democratic Party, etc. have been extensively infiltrated by Communist agents who are just waiting for the signal to rise up and overthrow the government. Reliving the glory days of the Red Scare.
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This is 2019 not 1954. If they believe that they are hard core Republicans and 90 years old.
 
acbytesla said:
This is 2019 not 1954. If they believe that they are hard core Republicans and 90 years old.
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The idea of "cultural Marxism" has had quite a resurgence within the past few years. If you're not familiar with it, it's basically a modern (and less overtly antisemitic) repacking of the Nazi conspiracy theory of "cultural bolshevism," which was focused on the idea that Jews and communists were secretly infiltrating society and using social engineering to force communism on everyone.

Lots of right wing media outlets and figures have been pushing this idea for a while now, both directly and indirectly (ie, strongly hinting at the idea, but not using the words "cultural Marxism"). For more mainstream examples, just look at organizations like Turning Point USA, or figures like Jordan Peterson, who constantly talks about "postmodern Neo-Marxists" trying to destroy society, and has even made a video for Prager U explaining how. IIRC, it was also a frequent topic on Infowars, and Tuckers Carlson has hinted at it as well. It's something you run into all the time if you pay attention to what right wing discourse.
 
ArchSas said:
The idea of "cultural Marxism" has had quite a resurgence within the past few years. If you're not familiar with it, it's basically a modern (and less overtly antisemitic) repacking of the Nazi conspiracy theory of "cultural bolshevism," which was focused on the idea that Jews and communists were secretly infiltrating society and using social engineering to force communism on everyone.

Lots of right wing media outlets and figures have been pushing this idea for a while now, both directly and indirectly (ie, strongly hinting at the idea, but not using the words "cultural Marxism"). For more mainstream examples, just look at organizations like Turning Point USA, or figures like Jordan Peterson, who constantly talks about "postmodern Neo-Marxists" trying to destroy society, and has even made a video for Prager U explaining how. IIRC, it was also a frequent topic on Infowars, and Tuckers Carlson has hinted at it as well. It's something you run into all the time if you pay attention to what right wing discourse.
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This is my point. Yes Right wingnuts have been peddling the red scare, commie, socialist BS. But they have been doing that for about a hundred years. It only really has traction among them. This peaked in the 1950s and has had less and less impact with the public ever since.

That dog won't hunt anymore. Time to put him down.
 
acbytesla said:
This is my point. Yes Right wingnuts have been peddling the red scare, commie, socialist BS. But they have been doing that for about a hundred years. It only really has traction among them. This peaked in the 1950s and has had less and less impact with the public ever since.

That dog won't hunt anymore. Time to put him down.
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Whatever validity it had died with the Soviet Union.
 
acbytesla said:
This is my point. Yes Right wingnuts have been peddling the red scare, commie, socialist BS. But they have been doing that for about a hundred years. It only really has traction among them. This peaked in the 1950s and has had less and less impact with the public ever since.

That dog won't hunt anymore. Time to put him down.
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Meh, my main point is that it's actually fairly common to come across that kind of rhetoric. It's true that only people firmly entrenched in the right take it completely seriously, but it's not hard to find the general sentiment slipping out into the wider discourse. Hell, I see TP USA ads/propaganda daily on Facebook, it's not like that stuff only exists in fringe spaces.
 
Brainster said:
Poisoning the well much?

I speak (type) my opinions carefully and honestly (mostly on the first part unless I get my panties in a knot). But I obviously have a dramatically different political worldview that you do. I accept this without attributing any malice or dishonesty towards you.

I actually accept that you feel the way that you do towards Trump. That you feel the minor imperfections on the Democrats are but pimples on a Playboy Playmate's behind compared to the perfidy and whatever that is Trump.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, Buttigieg's parents being communists will become a huge issue if he gets the nomination. I think it will be a bigger issue than that he's gay. You feel otherwise. That's your opinion and unlike you, I accept that it's not something dark inside you.
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Your posts on this forum are the only place I've even seen his parents mentioned. I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere, the internet is a big place after all.

Even if he gets the nomination and it becomes a talking point, who cares. Regardless of the nominee the Republicans will find some stupid thing, real or fabricated, to attack them about.
 
ArchSas said:
Meh, my main point is that it's actually fairly common to come across that kind of rhetoric. It's true that only people firmly entrenched in the right take it completely seriously, but it's not hard to find the general sentiment slipping out into the wider discourse. Hell, I see TP USA ads/propaganda daily on Facebook, it's not like that stuff only exists in fringe spaces.
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Yes, it seeps into the wider discourse. But it does in the same way Jeremiah Wright and Obama's birthplace does. It comes in with the cockroaches. Neither of which are really welcome.
 
The_Animus said:
Your posts on this forum are the only place I've even seen his parents mentioned. I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere, the internet is a big place after all.
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It's because liberal Democrats are unlikely to find it a big issue that it hasn't arisen yet. Remember Bernie Sanders saying in 2016 that he was sick and tired of hearing about Hillary's emails? And yet somehow that wasn't the end of the story.
 
Brainster said:
It's because liberal Democrats are unlikely to find it a big issue that it hasn't arisen yet. Remember Bernie Sanders saying in 2016 that he was sick and tired of hearing about Hillary's emails? And yet somehow that wasn't the end of the story.
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Another false analogy . What a shock!

Those were Hillary's emails. And she was being investigated by the FBI for potential wrongdoing. . In contrast, no one is investigating Pete's parents. Wild ass guilt by association.
 
Here's some really important stuff about Pete--stuff that liberals are concerned about today:

He worked for McKinsey, which is evil:

Buttigieg — who got a question about McKinsey at three of his six public events in the state this week — was confronted by one of them at a packed house party on Friday. Alan Cantor told the candidate that McKinsey is more interested in maximizing shareholder value than in helping communities or workers.
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And here's something even worse, complete with photographic evidence:

So what did this shocking surfaced photo reveal? Was Pete present at a cross burning? Was he grabbing a woman by the pussy? Had he “darkened his face” on several occasions? Was he wearing these absolutely hideous pants again?

No. Please brace yourself for the horrifying truth.

An earmuff-clad Pete Buttigieg stood in the cold outside a South Bend restaurant asking people to donate money to those in need. And he did so with—dun dunh DUNNNHHHH . . .

THE SALVATION ARMY.
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That article also noted that people made a stink about the fact that Mayor Pete seems to have a token black woman near him at a lot of events. Turns out she's his press secretary.

And just to show not everybody thinks Pete's a commie rat, Teen Vogue (yes, Teen Vogue) ran an article about how he's bourgeois, a term I haven't heard used unironically in 40+ years.

In his way, Buttigieg almost too perfectly represents a danger Karl Marx raises in The Communist Manifesto when discussing the bourgeoisie (his term for the ruling class) and their conflict with the working class (which he called the proletariat). Marx writes of the “petty” or “petite” bourgeoisie as a “transitional class” between the working-class proletarians and the ruling-class bourgeoisie. It is those middle-class voters who are drawn to Buttigieg’s folksy, Midwestern, “aw, shucks” appeal. But this “Petey” bourgeois persona masks what is actually a campaign supported by the ruling class that could end up giving the elite continued access to political power, even as our economic and political discourse evolves.
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So now we can talk about some serious criticisms of Buttigieg and not this fantasy about his commie pop.
 
This talk about Mayor Pete being a commie is hilarious, but is that all you got? Yes, people, write and say stupid things about Pete. But I think it says more about them and you then it does about the Mayor.
 
Brainster said:
It's because liberal Democrats are unlikely to find it a big issue that it hasn't arisen yet. Remember Bernie Sanders saying in 2016 that he was sick and tired of hearing about Hillary's emails? And yet somehow that wasn't the end of the story.
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Wasn't "the end of the story"? Unlike Hillary's emails, which was already a well entrenched story by 2016, you're the only one I've seen talking about Pete's parents. The "story" on Pete's parents hasn't even begun, bro; you're the only one I've seen talking about it.

What hasn't begun doesn't even need an ending.
 
acbytesla said:
This is 2019 not 1954. If they believe that they are hard core Republicans and 90 years old.
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My mother is 95 and it would be fair enough to describe her as hard-core Republican. And she doesn't like Trump. Didn't before the election, either. I don't know why, exactly, and probably she doesn't either (being severely challenged in the memory department).

It's off topic for this thread to go into more detail. Re: Democratic candidates, she probably won't form much of an opinion on who she prefers. But I can pretty much guarantee that she won't give a **** that Mayor Pete's dad was a socialist, or a Commie, or whatever the point about him is supposed to be.

She might not like Biden for a personal reason. But I'm pretty darn sure she would choose Biden over Trump. It would take a lot for her to vote against any of the Dem candidates. In fact I don't know if it's possible that she would dislike any of them as much as she does Trump.
 
Old, white, billionaire Democratic candidate for president, Michael Bloomberg, thinks Cory Booker – who happens to be black – sure is "well spoken" for a black person.

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No word as of yet if Bloomberg thinks the other black guy in the race is clean and articulate.
 
Bloomberg is possibly planning on a third-party run.

What the hell is he even doing this late in the game? Waste of millions of dollars just because he can.

Bloomberg is irrelevant.
 
Bogative said:
Old, white, billionaire Democratic candidate for president, Michael Bloomberg, thinks Cory Booker – who happens to be black – sure is "well spoken" for a black person.

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No word as of yet if Bloomberg thinks the other black guy in the race is clean and articulate.
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You're misrepresenting what both Bloomberg and Biden said. They never said either was well-spoken or clean and articulate "for a black person". If you need to resort to lying....
 
Bogative said:
Old, white, billionaire Democratic candidate for president, Michael Bloomberg, thinks Cory Booker – who happens to be black – sure is "well spoken" for a black person.

Link


No word as of yet if Bloomberg thinks the other black guy in the race is clean and articulate.
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Sounds to me that you went for the dishonest headline instead of thinking for yourself.
 
Stacyhs said:
You're misrepresenting what both Bloomberg and Biden said. They never said either was well-spoken or clean and articulate "for a black person". If you need to resort to lying....
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Cory Booker disagrees.


"It's sort of stunning at times that we are still revisiting these sort of tired, you know, tropes or the language we have out there that folks I don't think understand. And the fact that they don't understand is problematic…

I hope people around (Bloomberg) are talking to him about why that plays into what is for the black community in particular, just these are signs of frustration that we continue to deal with issues, whether it was the black face controversies from earlier this year, to the challenges that I don't think folks understand with Kamala dropping out of the race," Booker said.
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It's time to stop defending an old, white billionaire and his use of racist dog whistle language just because he's a Democrat. You're part of the problem.
 
Venom said:
Bloomberg is possibly planning on a third-party run.

What the hell is he even doing this late in the game? Waste of millions of dollars just because he can.

Bloomberg is irrelevant.
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Bloomberg is very, very rich. Scrooge McDuck rich. Everything he's spent on his campaign is pennies compared to the money he'd lose* every year under a Warren or Sanders wealth tax. I'm sure he'd love to be president and is kicking himself for bowing out in 2016, but he's running now to pull the debate away from progressive wealth redistribution.

*More accurately, not gain. Warren's tax would be less than inflation, so the big bag of money wouldn't be shrinking, just not growing by itself as fast as he would like it to.
 
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