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Old 7th December 2019, 09:08 PM   #241
cullennz
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So what are you personally doing to get governments to act? Someone is trying. It’s not you.
My govts leader has called climate change her "Nuclear free moment" (it is a historical thing where we were the first or one of the first to ban nuclear, which broke up ANZUS).

Our electricity is currently about 85% renewable

The govt has banned any new oil of gas mining.

We have banned plastic bags for some stupid reason.

The Govt are taxing the crap out of petrol and subsidising smaller cars.

Personally I recycle and when I can catch a bus to work, most others do not have this luxury

I am pushing it to see what you want me to do they aren't doing
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 7th December 2019, 09:15 PM   #242
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Oh and we have lots of wind turbines
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 7th December 2019, 09:16 PM   #243
Giordano
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Ummmmm.....No

My argument has always been that we as a society, as a people should be focusing on reducing our own fossil fuel consumption rather than relying on politicians to do it for us.

I know it's easy to be dazzled by someone like Thunberg who tells you that you don't need to do this, that it's strictly up to the politicians and industry to solve this problem and it provides a convenient justification for continuing to emit GHGs and consume resources all the while saying "not my problem"

So, smart people, tell us how relying on politicians will *this time* is going to prove any more effective in the next 8 years considering how that strategy has failed miserably over the past 15 years.

I suppose you could take solace that, when that ship goes down and the seas close in over your head, you can say you "tried".

You might as well join the Catholic Church.
Have you read her arguments? Dedication to a responsible personal life style is clearly one of them.

Beyond that I don’t see how there can be any solutions without a key role for governments. Many are currently activity involved in policies that promote climate change; changing that is crucial.
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Old 7th December 2019, 09:21 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
My govts leader has called climate change her "Nuclear free moment" (it is a historical thing where we were the first or one of the first to ban nuclear, which broke up ANZUS).

Our electricity is currently about 85% renewable

The govt has banned any new oil of gas mining.

We have banned plastic bags for some stupid reason.

The Govt are taxing the crap out of petrol and subsidising smaller cars.

Personally I recycle and when I can catch a bus to work, most others do not have this luxury

I am pushing it to see what you want me to do they aren't doing
Great. So you have done nothing other than put the trash out.

In other words, nothing.

Let’s see, Greta getting the young people in particular to take notice. Cullennz putting out the trash.

You should simply apologise to Thunberg for criticising her problems with communication (this post alone has a howler) when you have far more difficulties, and start looking at what protests have achieved in the past and hopefully in the future. Start marching and stop whinging about Thunberg.
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Old 7th December 2019, 09:25 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Great. So you have done nothing other than put the trash out.

In other words, nothing.

Let’s see, Greta getting the young people in particular to take notice. Cullennz putting out the trash.

You should simply apologise to Thunberg for criticising her problems with communication (this post alone has a howler) when you have far more difficulties, and start looking at what protests have achieved in the past and hopefully in the future. Start marching and stop whinging about Thunberg.

Would you like me to refuse to go to work for a day and stand outside parliament holding a sign?

When we currently have a govt that proclaims it to me one of their most important issues if not the most?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 7th December 2019, 10:05 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Have you read her arguments? Dedication to a responsible personal life style is clearly one of them.

Beyond that I don’t see how there can be any solutions without a key role for governments. Many are currently activity involved in policies that promote climate change; changing that is crucial.
Yes, I've read all of her arguments and living an environmentally friendly lifestyle only gets passing mention. Sure, she does it personally but she has celebrity to trade as currency for transportation something that, if she did not have, would have made it impossible for to cross oceans.

Everything she did in North America, save maybe the U.N. speech could have been and has been, organized locally.

Sure governments play a key role but the consumer plays a more important one/ We've seen a little success with the Swedish "flight shaming" model and raising consumer awareness of the environmental aspect of their choices it the most effective path of GHG reduction. IMHO.

When was the last time you saw a Hummer ? Those things went from hero to zero real fast.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:17 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
And after the protest I'd like to point out that propane patio heaters are on sale at Wal Mart.
I have hated patio heaters since I first saw one, maybe 28 years ago.

How bizarre they use propane ones.

Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Really? I think it is pretty clear that a number of posters are hoping in their heart of hearts that Thunberg doesn’t succeed simply because of their spite and dislike of her. Rather than hoping that her approach, together with others, will help move people and governments toward dealing with this crisis.

Just read the thread. These feelings are not well hidden. I am not discussing criticisms of her methods or disappointment but amusement and hope for her failures.
No, some have issues with wayward children.

And/or the endless fatigue of old age that morbidly assumes the world ends when they die, so nothing they do will make a difference.


Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
My govts leader has called climate change her "Nuclear free moment" (it is a historical thing where we were the first or one of the first to ban nuclear, which broke up ANZUS).

Our electricity is currently about 85% renewable

The govt has banned any new oil of gas mining.

We have banned plastic bags for some stupid reason.

The Govt are taxing the crap out of petrol and subsidising smaller cars.

Personally I recycle and when I can catch a bus to work, most others do not have this luxury

I am pushing it to see what you want me to do they aren't doing
I think you and New Zealand are doing wonders.

But you guys are trying to avoid facing the big one, like where I am, i.e.:

Beef and livestock production.

65% of arable land on the planet.
45% of greenhouse gases.


Today, I had a chat with a farmer who recently killed one of his cattle for food.

The next day he saw his favourite ultra-marathon runner's film about veganism.

It hit him in the guts.

(The runner is someone I have connections to, and I linked them by one degree.)

I've just completed one week of being vegan. Lots more to come as we all learn together.

Damn, I wanted to watch the film tonight. Instead I was in here. All good.
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:05 AM   #248
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May be they should start a carbon credit trading scheme where companies pay lots of money, which no one knows where it ends up to compensate for the carbon output, to another global company where it doesn't actually affect emissions, they just charge customers more.

We could call it something trendy like an ETS

And we can pretend it actually does something while still pumping crap loads of stuff out
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 8th December 2019, 07:46 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I have hated patio heaters since I first saw one, maybe 28 years ago.

How bizarre they use propane ones.
I can't think of a more frivolous way of burning up fossil fuels. Your average propane patio heater goes through a 20lb tank of propane in about 10 hours, pretty much every restaurant with a patio has a couple of these things that they run, even in the summer so when you add that all up, that's a lot of propane being burned to, literally, warm the planet.

I tend to ignore the electric ones because around here, we're on hydroelectric so you can still warm the outdoors in an "environmentally friendly" fashion if you really feel the need.
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Old 8th December 2019, 10:56 AM   #250
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GT's "manifesto" update (https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...-et-al-2019-11) is both amusingly gauche and vaguely scary at the same time, in that there are millions of first-worlders (including more than a few ISF locals) who are so weak-minded and uncritical they actually take this humourless, clichéd garbage seriously.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:00 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
GT's "manifesto" update (https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...-et-al-2019-11) is both amusingly gauche and vaguely scary at the same time, in that there are millions of first-worlders (including more than a few ISF locals) who are so weak-minded and uncritical they actually take this humourless, clichéd garbage seriously.
So what is your solution to climate change? You must have a pretty good one, strong-minded and devoid of cliche.
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Last edited by lionking; 8th December 2019 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:16 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
GT's "manifesto" update (https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...-et-al-2019-11) is both amusingly gauche and vaguely scary at the same time, in that there are millions of first-worlders (including more than a few ISF locals) who are so weak-minded and uncritical they actually take this humourless, clichéd garbage seriously.
How many authors does that article have?

What, exactly, are you describing as “gauche”?

The current rate of climate change, and the predicted results are scary. The fact that you find them only “vaguely” scary indicates your level of ignorance of the subject.

Climate change is not a humorous subject. Why would you look for humor in an article about it?

You are implying that the article is inaccurate. Without using hyperbole please point out the specific inaccuracies.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:21 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I can't think of a more frivolous way of burning up fossil fuels. Your average propane patio heater goes through a 20lb tank of propane in about 10 hours, pretty much every restaurant with a patio has a couple of these things that they run, even in the summer so when you add that all up, that's a lot of propane being burned to, literally, warm the planet.

I tend to ignore the electric ones because around here, we're on hydroelectric so you can still warm the outdoors in an "environmentally friendly" fashion if you really feel the need.

I can't even get myself to buy the oil for our tiki lamps on the patio. We use them as decor and LED bulbs for light.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:41 AM   #254
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Quote:
... And despite the vocal support we have received from many adults – including some of the world’s most powerful leaders – we still don’t.
GT is a puppet in a charade intended to incite (yet more) destructive division in first world society, this time between "young people" and "adults".

IOW, just more of the same-old same-old from the cultural marxist play-book, and driving that wedge is no more ambitious than many others that have been successfully tried in the post-war era.
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:45 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
GT is a puppet in a charade intended to incite (yet more) destructive division in first world society, this time between "young people" and "adults".

IOW, just more of the same-old same-old from the cultural marxist play-book, and driving that wedge is no more ambitious than many others that have been successfully tried in the post-war era.
A conspiracy then. Who is behind it?
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Old 8th December 2019, 11:46 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Do what is your solution to climate change? You must have a pretty good one, strong-minded and devoid of cliche.
That seems obvious.

Ground all commercial air travel. Essential flights and air freight only.

Cut back all industrial activities across the globe. Establish a central clearing house for emissions and offsets. You want to do something, you sell it to the clearing house. How necessary it is. How many offsets you've lined up.

Start seriously weaning humanity off of livestock protein.

Relax regulations on nuclear power plants. Claim Yucca Mountain and other likely sites under eminent domain, as nuclear waste storage sites.

We have about 8 years to drastically cut emissions across the board, and start to build a sustainable industrial base that the future.

As far as I know, Greta has done **** all to make this happen. Neither has anyone else. So why is Greta such a big deal?
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:02 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
GT's "manifesto" update (https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...-et-al-2019-11) is both amusingly gauche and vaguely scary at the same time, in that there are millions of first-worlders (including more than a few ISF locals) who are so weak-minded and uncritical they actually take this humourless, clichéd garbage seriously.
That came up earlier, Thungberg going full SJW and it's a fair assumption that her supporters are willingly following her down that path. White men are responsible for creating climate change and, presumably, brown people and women would have taken one look at coal and oil, deemed it to be black evil and continued along with their peaceful agrarian lifestyles.

I can't figure out how being a vegan would fit into one of those ancient lifestyles. With no slave animals or animal products all of that wheat/corn/camus/whatever would be planted and harvested by hand. Oh no wait...in a lot of places it was so we'll have to go back to the hunter gatherer lifestyle but without the hunter.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:03 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
I can't even get myself to buy the oil for our tiki lamps on the patio. We use them as decor and LED bulbs for light.
That's the spirit. All we can really do is question every purchase we make and ask ourselves if we can live without it.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:15 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
GT is a puppet in a charade intended to incite (yet more) destructive division in first world society, this time between "young people" and "adults".

IOW, just more of the same-old same-old from the cultural marxist play-book, and driving that wedge is no more ambitious than many others that have been successfully tried in the post-war era.
I can't say I agree with the idea that she's anyone's puppet, more the spoiled child who saw that having a tantrum could influence her parents to do what she wanted, decided to go for the fold and try that tactic at the U.N.

Nowhere else in that wedge driving tactic on display than her speech in Vancouver.

Quote:
If the adults really loved us, they would at least do everything they possibly could to make sure that we have a safe future — a future to look forward to. But they are not doing that. As it is now, it feels like they are doing the exact opposite, that they are desperately trying to change the subject every time the climate crisis comes up.
Which is like saying.....Mommy., if you really loved me, you would buy me that toy.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:16 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That seems obvious.

Ground all commercial air travel. Essential flights and air freight only.

Cut back all industrial activities across the globe. Establish a central clearing house for emissions and offsets. You want to do something, you sell it to the clearing house. How necessary it is. How many offsets you've lined up.

Start seriously weaning humanity off of livestock protein.

Relax regulations on nuclear power plants. Claim Yucca Mountain and other likely sites under eminent domain, as nuclear waste storage sites.

We have about 8 years to drastically cut emissions across the board, and start to build a sustainable industrial base that the future.

As far as I know, Greta has done **** all to make this happen. Neither has anyone else. So why is Greta such a big deal?
I have no issue with any of these ideas as ways to quickly reduce carbon emissions. Implemented quickly they would, of course, destroy the world’s economy. This would inevitably result in millions of deaths so in the long run the earh’s collective population may be no better off than trying to live in a warmer world.

However, as much as I appreciate this sensible post from you, the question was asked of ThisIsTheLife. I would like to see their answer.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:24 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I can't say I agree with the idea that she's anyone's puppet, more the spoiled child who saw that having a tantrum could influence her parents to do what she wanted, decided to go for the fold and try that tactic at the U.N.

Nowhere else in that wedge driving tactic on display than her speech in Vancouver.



Which is like saying.....Mommy., if you really loved me, you would buy me that toy.
It is actually nothing like that at all. Why do you continue to make up these odd and irrelevant analogies? You criticize Ms Thunberg for not accomplishing anything and yet your many posts in this thread over several months have accomplished nothing. You have not even been able to come up with a valid criticism. Just speculation and innuendo.
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Old 8th December 2019, 12:52 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I have no issue with any of these ideas as ways to quickly reduce carbon emissions. Implemented quickly they would, of course, destroy the world’s economy. This would inevitably result in millions of deaths so in the long run the earh’s collective population may be no better off than trying to live in a warmer world.

However, as much as I appreciate this sensible post from you, the question was asked of ThisIsTheLife. I would like to see their answer.
It’s not though. It’s a pathetic attempted gotcha, which will be followed by “well if you are not prepared to do all of these things you are not serious” while completely ignoring what can be easily done but won’t be done by conservative governments, the US in particular.

It’s right out of the deniers playbook.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:02 PM   #263
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...what can be easily done
I missed that. Could you point me to a post where you covered it, or repeat it?

If it is " easily " done, it should be easy to lay it out..
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:03 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
It is actually nothing like that at all. Why do you continue to make up these odd and irrelevant analogies? You criticize Ms Thunberg for not accomplishing anything and yet your many posts in this thread over several months have accomplished nothing. You have not even been able to come up with a valid criticism. Just speculation and innuendo.
It's actually exactly like that. Who on Earth said I was trying to accomplish anything / This is an Internet discussion board, this is entertainment. As flattered as I am, I do feel compelled to point out that this thread isn't about me, it's about Greta Thumberg.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:14 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I missed that. Could you point me to a post where you covered it, or repeat it?

If it is " easily " done, it should be easy to lay it out..
It’s pointless repeating as you will simply dismiss them, but eliminating coal power stations (as Germany has done ), getting serious about solar and other renewables, subsidies for electric cars and government funding for development of biofuel for aircraft.

These things are doable.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:24 PM   #266
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Doable doesn't equate to " easily done " ..

But you know that.. You just can't tolerate any criticism of Princess Greta...
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:38 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Doable doesn't equate to " easily done " ..

But you know that.. You just can't tolerate any criticism of Princess Greta...
Thank you for exposing your unwillingness to debate what can be done so that you can keep up your personal attacks on Thunberg.

All those things I mentioned can be easily done. Know why I know this? Because they have been done by countries with progressive and thoughtful leaders. Quite the contrast with the US. Australia will eventually close coal power stations (it should be now) as cheaper renewable power has taken off, so we have part of the equation right.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:44 PM   #268
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What planet do you live on where shutting down coal fired power plants is easily done..

Back to the dictionary:

Quote:
eas·i·ly

adverb
1.
without difficulty or effort.
"he climbed the mountain easily"

Please show where I have made a " Personal attack " on Greta.

That I find her irritating is not a personal attack . It is sharing an opinion that Greta will never see.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:46 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
It's actually exactly like that. Who on Earth said I was trying to accomplish anything / This is an Internet discussion board, this is entertainment. As flattered as I am, I do feel compelled to point out that this thread isn't about me, it's about Greta Thumberg.
Seems to be mainly about made up opinions of her and her actions. Interesting and informative that you admit your posts have no purpose (yes, that is exactly the same as not trying to accomplish anything). I will accept your claim that you are trying to have a discussion. Please, provide us with more facts about Ms Thunberg that you can back up with evidence.
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Old 8th December 2019, 01:56 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It’s not though. It’s a pathetic attempted gotcha, which will be followed by “well if you are not prepared to do all of these things you are not serious” while completely ignoring what can be easily done but won’t be done by conservative governments, the US in particular.

It’s right out of the deniers playbook.
Regardless of his intention, which I fully recognize, .any of the things theprestige listed are viable ways to quickly and immediately reduce carbon discharge to the atmosphere. The nuclear option excepted - that would not be quick. They are drastic and will have drastic effects. The time may come that drastic actions are required as the current feeble efforts are quite ineffective. I cannot agree that there areeasy things that can be done at this point that will actually have the necessary short term results.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:05 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Seems to be mainly about made up opinions of her and her actions. Interesting and informative that you admit your posts have no purpose (yes, that is exactly the same as not trying to accomplish anything). I will accept your claim that you are trying to have a discussion. Please, provide us with more facts about Ms Thunberg that you can back up with evidence.
Of course they're made up, they're opinions. I can do that right ? Of course I can this isn't North Korea although I'm sure some posters, nobody posting in this thread of course, wishes it were.

I'll provide more facts as they become apparent and back them up with evidence as per my usual style. Trigger warning though, some of it might not be in lockstep with Thunberg idolization and may appear somewhat negative even when viewed through rose colored glasses.

I'm following Thunberg's instructions and voting as fast as I can.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:41 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
What planet do you live on where shutting down coal fired power plants is easily done..

Back to the dictionary:




Please show where I have made a " Personal attack " on Greta.

That I find her irritating is not a personal attack . It is sharing an opinion that Greta will never see.
If you are tied up in knots about “easy” just ignore that and let me change it to “quickly” which Germany managed to do.
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Old 8th December 2019, 02:49 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Of course they're made up, they're opinions. I can do that right ? Of course I can this isn't North Korea although I'm sure some posters, nobody posting in this thread of course, wishes it were.

I'll provide more facts as they become apparent and back them up with evidence as per my usual style. Trigger warning though, some of it might not be in lockstep with Thunberg idolization and may appear somewhat negative even when viewed through rose colored glasses.

I'm following Thunberg's instructions and voting as fast as I can.
This post contains no information and accomplishes nothing. Perfectly in line with your admitted posting style.

It also contains lies. You are not following any instruction from Ms Thunberg, and you have not voted on any aspect of climate change related to what she has sai.
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Old 8th December 2019, 03:01 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
This post contains no information and accomplishes nothing. Perfectly in line with your admitted posting style.

It also contains lies. You are not following any instruction from Ms Thunberg, and you have not voted on any aspect of climate change related to what she has sai.
Please research before posting, facts and information are your friends.

Greta Thunberg leaves US with simple climate crisis message: vote
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Old 8th December 2019, 05:02 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Please research before posting, facts and information are your friends.

Greta Thunberg leaves US with simple climate crisis message: vote
Read for comprehension. I made no comment on what Ms Thunberg said. I commented on your claimed response to her comment. That response was a lie. You claim to be following Ms Thunberg’s instructions. You are not. You claim to be voting on some matter related to Ms Thunberg’s comments. You are not.
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Old 8th December 2019, 05:34 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Read for comprehension. I made no comment on what Ms Thunberg said. I commented on your claimed response to her comment. That response was a lie. You claim to be following Ms Thunberg’s instructions. You are not. You claim to be voting on some matter related to Ms Thunberg’s comments. You are not.
Bafflegab !

Commander Thunberg issued an order that we vote to save the planet so I visit the polling center on a daily basis in the hopes of carrying out that order. Alas, they repeatedly tell me that there is no election taking place so, despondent, I return home, flash up my propane patio heater and bask in it's warm glow with the comfort that I at least tried to save the world.
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Old 8th December 2019, 05:37 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Bafflegab !

Commander Thunberg issued an order that we vote to save the planet so I visit the polling center on a daily basis in the hopes of carrying out that order. Alas, they repeatedly tell me that there is no election taking place so, despondent, I return home, flash up my propane patio heater and bask in it's warm glow with the comfort that I at least tried to save the world.
Liar.
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Old 8th December 2019, 06:07 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
If you are tied up in knots about “easy” just ignore that and let me change it to “quickly” which Germany managed to do.
No they haven't. They've announced plans to do it, but they haven't done it yet. We'll have to wait to see if they can actually succeed.

But it would have been a lot easier to do if they hadn't prematurely shuttered nuclear power plants.
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Old 8th December 2019, 06:09 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Liar.
True

They probably get 6 people to drive 500 miles over in 4 x 4s, to then tow them to the polling booth on push bikes, so it is a "carbon neutral" achievement.
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Old 8th December 2019, 06:16 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Liar.
Damn....busted.
I made up the bit about owning a propane patio heater, but if I did own one, I'd name it Greta.
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