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Old 2nd January 2020, 04:00 PM   #161
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BBC: Australia fires: Angry residents berate PM Morrison in blaze-ravaged town
Quote:
Mr Morrison was approached as he visited Cobargo, near the coast in southern NSW.

"How come we only had four trucks to defend our town? Because our town doesn't have a lot of money but we have hearts of gold, prime minister," one woman called out.

Others joined in as Mr Morrison turned away, calling him "an idiot" and saying he was not welcome.

"You won't be getting any votes down here, buddy. No Liberal [party] votes - you're out, son," heckled one man.

"What about the people who are dead, prime minister? What about the people who have nowhere to live?" the woman asked Mr Morrison as he was ushered away. ...
...in his limo apparently.

More tone-deafness:
Quote:
NSW's premier has declared a week-long state of emergency in response to the escalating bushfire threat.
A week-long? seriously?
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Old 2nd January 2020, 04:10 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I'm in Melbourne currently and dread the thought of going back to current hell hole that is Canberra. Over 40C but I can't put the air-conditioning on.
Melbourne is about to get a few thousand displaced refugees evacuated from the southern coast. Are people in Melbourne making arrangements?

Reuters: Thousands flee fires in Australia, navy helps evacuate the stranded
Quote:
*Naval officials said they would open registration for evacuation on Thursday afternoon, with the HMAS Choules able to carry up to 1,000 people on the first trip.

*”It’s 16-17 hours to the closest boat port, then we’ve got to come back,” HMAS Choules Commander Scott Houlihan said on Thursday afternoon. He said that leaving by boat was the only way out of the town.
Then there's this from France 24: Around 100,000 people were urged to flee five Melbourne suburbs on Monday evening as Australia's spiralling bushfire crisis killed a volunteer firefighter battling a separate blaze in the countryside.

Where in Melbourne are these people going?
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Old 2nd January 2020, 04:11 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think the koalas are slightly more peeved but feel free to obviously take the **** on a serious thread.

Back on topic

Aerial footage of just one of them

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Morrison sounds a bit of a goner. Not sure what he was supposed to do tbf.
Sorry, I think that is a really sick and wicked accusation to make, so kindly retract it.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 04:12 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
The entire Liberal Coalition ?
The rabid denialist base that Murdoch cultivated among Coalition voters.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 04:20 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Yeah, sweet ickle lickle koalas (not bears) that were potentially facing extinction in the state of NSW within 20 odd years and now potentially pushed to the brink of extinction as more that 30% of the population may have just been wiped out.

I don't understand why anyone would sneer at people being concerned for the vast numbers of wildlife that are being killed by these bushfires.

I guess we can rest easier now that there may be 100s of species that were never discovered that we now won't miss.
Ickle Lickle or not....
Kindly retract your calumny as I am now being subjected to disgusting trolling.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 04:23 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Melbourne is about to get a few thousand displaced refugees evacuated from the southern coast. Are people in Melbourne making arrangements?

Reuters: Thousands flee fires in Australia, navy helps evacuate the stranded

Then there's this from France 24: Around 100,000 people were urged to flee five Melbourne suburbs on Monday evening as Australia's spiralling bushfire crisis killed a volunteer firefighter battling a separate blaze in the countryside.

Where in Melbourne are these people going?
Most of them will be tourists who have homes to go to.

The country towns will be suffering like never before. A lot of their work in those coastal areas is based on tourism and the Xmas holiday season. Combine that with the drought and farm losses and their is going to be significant long term economic impact.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 11:19 PM   #167
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I may have said this earlier, but almost all of those vacationing in East Gippsland and on the south coast of NSW are within a short walking distance of large bodies of water. If I were to choose a place to be in disastrous fire conditions, it would be either in the centre of the CBD or on a beach. Much safer than my outer suburban house.

The real catastrophe will be a repeat of Black Saturday in heavily populated, leafy outer suburbs in Sydney or Melbourne. There could be tens of thousands of deaths.

Not to underplay the extent of the current fires. They are terrible. But so far we have been lucky that large bushfires have only occurred in sparsely populated areas. There is absolutely nothing stopping huge fires in populated areas. If a weather change didn’t occur when it did on Black Saturday, many thousands would certainly have died.

I told my wife today that I was certain we would see a 50C day in Melbourne within the next couple of years. If accompanied by high winds (extremely hot days usually are), deaths are inevitable.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 11:53 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Kindly retract your calumny as I am now being subjected to disgusting trolling.
Nah
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Old 2nd January 2020, 11:56 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sorry, I think that is a really sick and wicked accusation to make, so kindly retract it.
Wrongly quoted post due to only having small phone access.

Nah

Though would guess the other poster you quoted I answered agrees
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Old 2nd January 2020, 11:58 PM   #170
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There was a couple on the news, they did just what you are saying LK. They were hosing off the roof of their home when a fireball at 80kph rolled over their home. They backed off and jumped in the lake to ride out the firestorm. Cinders rained down on them, singed the woman's hair a bit. But they survived.

The people that evacuated to the coast in The Lakes area (I'd have to look up the town name, their town burned down) were safe from the fire, but food and water supplies were short. They'll be OK. But the fires aren't out, and there is no real end in sight.

Surviving the fire is only the first step. The number of people who've lost homes and businesses will take a very long time to recover.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 12:10 AM   #171
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Might be an odd thing to ask but I remember we have massive house insurance here so mostly (with a lot of exceptions) after the chch most houses were rebuilt

Is the house insurance low in Australia?

Seriously mean the question not **** taking. Just find it odd people not just getting out of Dodge
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Old 3rd January 2020, 12:27 AM   #172
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-...-risk/11624108

Not just fire but flooding and cyclones as well.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 12:27 AM   #173
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You can't get out when there are only one or two roads out and those get cut off.

You think homeowners insurance is going to come in and rebuild whole towns? Where do people go to work in the meantime?
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Old 3rd January 2020, 12:31 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-...-risk/11624108

Not just fire but flooding and cyclones as well.
That's an incredible web page.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 12:42 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You can't get out when there are only one or two roads out and those get cut off.

You think homeowners insurance is going to come in and rebuild whole towns? Where do people go to work in the meantime?
Fair call. But a lot were told to leave earlier.

Agree website is cool by other poster.

Kind of disagree 1500 a year is bad these days for insurance. But the uninsurable thing is ridiculous. I have heard it being here as well
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Old 3rd January 2020, 01:07 AM   #176
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Here is what they forcast to happen tomorrow https://twitter.com/NSWRFS/status/1212904628196716545. Several towns may be RIP or close to it.

Weather forecast for Batemans Bay tomorrow is
Quote:
Very hot and mostly sunny. Areas of smoke haze, thick at times. The chance of a thunderstorm with little or no rainfall in the north in the afternoon and early evening. Winds N/NE 20 to 30 km/h tending NW/SW in the early afternoon then tending SE/SW 25 to 40 km/h in the evening. Overnight temperatures falling to between 17 and 20 with daytime temperatures reaching 34 to 44.
Actually in the summary below they forecast 41C. That is about 104F

https://www.weatherzone.com.au/nsw/s...t/batemans-bay
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Old 3rd January 2020, 01:12 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Fair call. But a lot were told to leave earlier.
Unless you've faced something similar, it is easy to say, 'I would have left sooner'. I think for tourists, that's a valid point.

But for people leaving their homes undefended, I'm not going to judge those people.

Also, as someone who had no idea what the real danger of Mt St Helens was and who ignored those warnings to get a closer look, sometimes the danger just doesn't seem as bad as they say.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 01:18 AM   #178
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I have but valid point.

And for the record don't actually judge them badly either.

Nasty unexpected things happen
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Old 3rd January 2020, 02:16 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Fair call. But a lot were told to leave earlier.

Agree website is cool by other poster.

Kind of disagree 1500 a year is bad these days for insurance. But the uninsurable thing is ridiculous. I have heard it being here as well
These fires are unprecedented. The scientists have been warning about this but the government had encouraged people to think that things aren't that serious.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 02:37 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
These fires are unprecedented. The scientists have been warning about this but the government had encouraged people to think that things aren't that serious.
Yeah little bit worried about my brother who lives on the outskirts of Melbourne in the bush. But they have a bush fire station near and my other one lives in city so should be cool
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 3rd January 2020, 02:56 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I'm in Melbourne currently and dread the thought of going back to current hell hole that is Canberra. Over 40C but I can't put the air-conditioning on.
Yeah, was there over the holidays and it was pretty ****. Pumping the aircon and then waking up at 4am with the smell of smoke in your bedroom wasn't great. I took the smoke over the heat, though.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 03:04 AM   #182
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Tbf that leaves 30% who don't

Kind of get the pointless garden hose now
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 3rd January 2020, 09:25 PM   #183
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The change is through and fire risk and air quality are now good where we are. The change with a south-westerly wind, will almost certainly cause more problems in Gippsland.

My son-in-law the police detective looks like he will be joining a large deployment to Gippsland tomorrow. Stay safe Leigh.
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Old 4th January 2020, 12:59 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The change is through and fire risk and air quality are now good where we are. The change with a south-westerly wind, will almost certainly cause more problems in Gippsland.

My son-in-law the police detective looks like he will be joining a large deployment to Gippsland tomorrow. Stay safe Leigh.
Thoughts.
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Old 4th January 2020, 01:11 AM   #185
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cullennz, I had no idea you are in Christchurch.

I noticed that about that website's "uninsurable homes".

It quotes the Insurance Council of Australia:

'“Claims that parts of Australia will become uninsurable or unaffordable are irresponsible,” ICA head of communications Campbell Fuller told ABC News.
“No area of Australia should be uninsurable.”'

The article starts out with a paragraph including: "The complex is expecting a 30 per cent jump in insurance costs next year — on top of a five-fold increase that has seen the annual premium soar from less than $30,000 to more than $150,000 in a decade."

Which make it sound like one house's insurance is that much. That's for an apartment complex.

A home insurance premium's actually around 0.5% p.a. of rebuild value.

"The warning comes as new analysis from his firm Climate Risk shows the number of “uninsurable” addresses in Australia is projected to double by the turn of the century to nearly 720,000 — or one in 20 — if nothing is done to address escalating risk from extreme weather and climate change.

"Thousands more will see their insurance premiums double or even triple within decades, the data reveals."

Well, that's a bit more what we'd expect from climate change.
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Old 4th January 2020, 01:27 AM   #186
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We have family friends with a house in the bush at Bateman's bay.

They were expecting to lose it this week. Haven't heard yet.


Two weeks ago I was in Geelong.

At 6 pm I had to walk a few blocks to get dinner.

46.7 C.

Metrics & tests say I have the health & fitness of a 20-year old, but that made me suffer.


There are dead leaves underfoot all over our back yard.

It never gets like that till the end of February.
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Old 4th January 2020, 03:39 AM   #187
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Some videos from the fires in Australia:

This one shows a fire tornado.

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And this one is shot with a thermal camera showing the scale of the fires.

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Kangaroo Island is also on fire. This article shows a before/after comparison.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/e...86471fa20c88dd
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Old 4th January 2020, 04:02 AM   #188
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These links were provided earlier in the thread. I think I will give them again. They show what has been burnt. Bateman's Bay is OK but isolated. Surf beach looks gone. But other areas on the coast are not.

SA: https://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/site/home.jsp
NSW: https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-info.../fires-near-me
VIC: http://www.emergency.vic.gov.au/respond
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Old 4th January 2020, 04:06 AM   #189
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Just about up to one million hectares burnt.
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Old 4th January 2020, 04:17 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Just about up to one million hectares burnt.
What, today?

Quote:
Bushfires raging across Australia have burned more than 12 million acres—an area approximately the size of the U.S. states of Vermont and New Hampshire combined. The smoke from the blazes in the southwest of the country is visible from space, and it is spreading so far that it is causing haze in New Zealand more 1,000 miles away.
https://time.com/5758186/australia-bushfire-size/#

That's almost 5.000.000 hectares.

In an earlier post I used the number 6.000.000, but that was maybe wrong.
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Old 4th January 2020, 04:45 AM   #191
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Yes a lot of land burnt, but almost all of it unpopulated.

A terrible event, but not the tragedy of other fires.
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Old 4th January 2020, 05:04 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
What, today?



https://time.com/5758186/australia-bushfire-size/#

That's almost 5.000.000 hectares.

In an earlier post I used the number 6.000.000, but that was maybe wrong.
For perspective, Australia is the sixth largest country in the world at 7.7m square kilometres (USA is 9.8m sq km). 5,000,000 hectares = 50,000 sq km = roughly the size of the whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina or Costa Rica.
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Old 4th January 2020, 05:23 AM   #193
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My bad.
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Old 4th January 2020, 02:35 PM   #194
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Thankfully, it is raining here in Adelaide today.

I'm really hoping that Kangaroo Island gets some assistance from the weather too.
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Old 4th January 2020, 02:38 PM   #195
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I've just checked the rain radar and it's heartbreaking.

The rain is coming down from the North West of Australia, and is all North of Kangaroo Island.

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Old 4th January 2020, 02:50 PM   #196
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I'm glad there's some rain. The fires were close to Adelaide on the map.
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Old 4th January 2020, 03:28 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I've just checked the rain radar and it's heartbreaking.

The rain is coming down from the North West of Australia, and is all North of Kangaroo Island.

Different from my radar.

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR021.loop.shtml

Heavy rain in Melbourne now and the band is spreading into Gippsland.

ETA, to make it clear I’m not criticising you. As rain bands come through SA they tend to dip south, which is exactly what happened.
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Old 4th January 2020, 04:29 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
cullennz, I had no idea you are in Christchurch.

I noticed that about that website's "uninsurable homes".

It quotes the Insurance Council of Australia:

'“Claims that parts of Australia will become uninsurable or unaffordable are irresponsible,” ICA head of communications Campbell Fuller told ABC News.
“No area of Australia should be uninsurable.”'

The article starts out with a paragraph including: "The complex is expecting a 30 per cent jump in insurance costs next year — on top of a five-fold increase that has seen the annual premium soar from less than $30,000 to more than $150,000 in a decade."

Which make it sound like one house's insurance is that much. That's for an apartment complex.

A home insurance premium's actually around 0.5% p.a. of rebuild value.

"The warning comes as new analysis from his firm Climate Risk shows the number of “uninsurable” addresses in Australia is projected to double by the turn of the century to nearly 720,000 — or one in 20 — if nothing is done to address escalating risk from extreme weather and climate change.

"Thousands more will see their insurance premiums double or even triple within decades, the data reveals."

Well, that's a bit more what we'd expect from climate change.
Should clear that up.

From Chch. Actually Kaiapoi technically. Currently live in Wellington.

After the earthquakes both there and here the whole house insurance system changed for people.

It used to be just replacement estimate.

It suddenly became demolishing what's left. Carting it away. Getting rid of it refuse wise. Rebuilding foundations etc etc.

Everyone in the countries insurance had to be re-evaluated to a larger scale.

Doubt a lot of people have enough cover now tbf
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Old 4th January 2020, 04:33 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Different from my radar.

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR021.loop.shtml

Heavy rain in Melbourne now and the band is spreading into Gippsland.

ETA, to make it clear I’m not criticising you. As rain bands come through SA they tend to dip south, which is exactly what happened.
Yes, I'm glad that Gippsland is getting some, here's hoping it helps.

If you zoom out to the whole of Australia view, you should be able to see the tropical low, off the North West coast, that is the source of the current rain.

It has sent a band of rain snaking across the country.
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Old 4th January 2020, 05:09 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
For perspective, Australia is the sixth largest country in the world at 7.7m square kilometres (USA is 9.8m sq km). 5,000,000 hectares = 50,000 sq km = roughly the size of the whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina or Costa Rica.
Please remember that much of Australia is desert. If you measured countries by how much rain falls then Australia would be way down the list.
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