Bushfire Season - Page 9

dudalb · 10th January 2020, 05:21 PM

The US Government Agency I work for is sending some of it's Hotshot Wildfire teams to Australia to help out.
A couple of the fire guys in my office take off from SF International today. The Fire section here has really been following this very closely;we have had a wildfire fighter exchange program going on with the Aussies for some time.

arthwollipot · 12th January 2020, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

The US Government Agency I work for is sending some of it's Hotshot Wildfire teams to Australia to help out.
A couple of the fire guys in my office take off from SF International today. The Fire section here has really been following this very closely;we have had a wildfire fighter exchange program going on with the Aussies for some time.

We appreciate your help.

a_unique_person · 12th January 2020, 09:37 PM

Now we wait and see if the semi circle of fire around Canberra strikes out towards it.

lionking · 13th January 2020, 02:21 AM

This is not going to be a popular post, but I’m starting to get really annoyed at so many people effected by the fires (I’m not talking about those who have lost properties) demanding government support in the media. People who have become unemployed as a consequence get unemployment benefit. Not good enough according to the unions. They should get the average wage instead, which would be a massive slap in the face to all those struggling on Newstart.

Businesses which have missed out on holiday income demanding the government make good their losses. There is insurance they could have taken out to cover this, but nobody bothers as they can’t imagine a bad holiday season.

I saw someone in an isolated town complain that government agencies haven’t visited his town, pointing out that he couldn’t get to see them because of road closures!!!

Others who can’t work because the business closed due to the fires asking for compensation. Businesses (including my last employer) close down all the time without the government throwing lifelines.

I have donated to the fire funds, but with some discomfort as i don’t know where this money is going.

Okay, I’ve dug a hole, so will keep digging. I personally know many people who benefitted handsomely after Black Saturday. People who lost homes (a horrible experience without doubt) got six figure charity payments, on top of insurance payments (not everyone had their homes insured), Centrelink and other government payments and law suit settlements for the many who joined class actions. Many people who stayed rebuilt bigger and better. Others moved to better suburbs.

If you can’t afford home insurance, you can’t really afford a house. If you can’t insure your business, you are a poor businessperson.

Rant over.

a_unique_person · 13th January 2020, 04:30 AM

The smoke plume will circle the globe.

Bushfire smoke plume expected to lap the globe, NASA says
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-1...-says/11863298

Perth should see a haze in a couple of days.

a_unique_person · 13th January 2020, 04:55 AM

Lionking

The disruption caused by these fires is going to be beyond what insurance can cover. The knock on effects of road closures, businesses and homes burning down, distortion to the economies and people moving out permanently will be huge on a lot of small communities that weren't that resilient to start with.

The most unfair part of this is the other species that are affected. They had no part in creating this disaster but will by far suffer the most from it.

lionking · 13th January 2020, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Lionking

The disruption caused by these fires is going to be beyond what insurance can cover. The knock on effects of road closures, businesses and homes burning down, distortion to the economies and people moving out permanently will be huge on a lot of small communities that weren't that resilient to start with.

The most unfair part of this is the other species that are affected. They had no part in creating this disaster but will by far suffer the most from it.

Oh yes, I understand this. I still think that some people will use every opportunity to capitalise.

Nothing anyone can do about this, but annoying none the less.

The Atheist · 13th January 2020, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

This is not going to be a popular post,...

The truth quite often isn't.

Originally Posted by lionking

If you can’t afford home insurance, you can’t really afford a house. If you can’t insure your business, you are a poor businessperson.

I utterly agree with this position.

Sadly, the mix of technology and "givememoneyforfree" sites encourage the behaviour.

Almost daily, I see requests for money from people who have had a father or mother die without life insurance, lose their uninsured home in a fire, or generally have something insurable affect them when they were uninsured.

If you have no insurance I am certainly not going to give a damn.

rjh01 · 13th January 2020, 12:50 PM

Who should get Government help?
- Fire fighters. They are away from work more than in other seasons
- RFS. They need more and better equipment.
- people who have lost their homes. But only enough so they can get a change of clothes and other immediate needs until insurance pays out.
- Utilities. They will need to rebuild a load of roads and other services.

Who else?

I suggest that if everyone had insurance for everything then insurance companies would be making massive losses.

Edit. Forgot. People who look after wild animals impacted by the fires. Now THEY need money from everyone.

arthwollipot · 13th January 2020, 08:13 PM

I am cautiously optimistic about the heavy rain currently being forecast for the end of the week actually occurring.

Steve · 13th January 2020, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I am cautiously optimistic about the heavy rain currently being forecast for the end of the week actually occurring.

I’ll be not praying for it and hoping you are right. A real drenching would be wonderful.

arthwollipot · 13th January 2020, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

I’ll be not praying for it and hoping you are right. A real drenching would be wonderful.

Well... it'll be double-edged. It will damp everything down which will be nice, but it will also create a lot of polluted runoff in the waterways. I wouldn't be surprised if we were drinking brown water for weeks.

Steve · 13th January 2020, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Well... it'll be double-edged. It will damp everything down which will be nice, but it will also create a lot of polluted runoff in the waterways. I wouldn't be surprised if we were drinking brown water for weeks.

I was thinking that when I read your post. I still think it would be best to limit the fires and deal with the water issues as they arise.

novaphile · 13th January 2020, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

I was thinking that when I read your post. I still think it would be best to limit the fires and deal with the water issues as they arise.

Unfortunately, heavy rains after a fire event can raise really significant issues.

Particularly flooding and mudslides, because there is reduced vegetation to slow the passage of water.

The pollution of waterways is also a big deal, as arthwollipot has already mentioned.

So, to back up what is already being said: Fires out good, everything else, not so much.

arthwollipot · 13th January 2020, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by novaphile

Unfortunately, heavy rains after a fire event can raise really significant issues.

Particularly flooding and mudslides, because there is reduced vegetation to slow the passage of water.

The pollution of waterways is also a big deal, as arthwollipot has already mentioned.

So, to back up what is already being said: Fires out good, everything else, not so much.

Though given what it is typically like, it's unlikely that we'll get enough rain for flooding and mudslides.

Steve · 14th January 2020, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by novaphile

Unfortunately, heavy rains after a fire event can raise really significant issues.

Particularly flooding and mudslides, because there is reduced vegetation to slow the passage of water.

The pollution of waterways is also a big deal, as arthwollipot has already mentioned.

So, to back up what is already being said: Fires out good, everything else, not so much.

I understand that. It is going to happen at some point anyway so having it happen now and put out, or control, the fires at the same time is more advantageous than having it happen in six months when the fires have burned a few million more hectares.

novaphile · 14th January 2020, 03:10 PM

Indeed.

dudalb · 14th January 2020, 03:12 PM

And I thought the California fires last year were pretty bad......

arthwollipot · 14th January 2020, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And I thought the California fires last year were pretty bad......

They were. They definitely were. But this is bigger than those and last year's Amazon fires combined.

Ulf Nereng · 14th January 2020, 06:01 PM

There is a benefit of having the government pay through its' nose to compensate people, in that it will hopefully bring it home to them that preventative measures is cost effective.

Skeptic Ginger · 14th January 2020, 06:47 PM

I was disgusted today to see Morrison talk about the need to preserve jobs, aka coal jobs, and the news interviewers didn't ask the most blatantly obvious question, "What about everyone else's jobs: farmers, ranchers, tourist entry, all those volunteer fire fighters who've missed months of work, ..."

arthwollipot · 14th January 2020, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I was disgusted today to see Morrison talk about the need to preserve jobs, aka coal jobs, and the news interviewers didn't ask the most blatantly obvious question, "What about everyone else's jobs: farmers, ranchers, tourist entry, all those volunteer fire fighters who've missed months of work, ..."

That's how I feel every time the man opens his mouth.

Norman Alexander · 14th January 2020, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I was disgusted today to see Morrison talk about the need to preserve jobs, aka coal jobs, and the news interviewers didn't ask the most blatantly obvious question, "What about everyone else's jobs: farmers, ranchers, tourist entry, all those volunteer fire fighters who've missed months of work, ..."

Coal mining is the only job Soot Morrison thinks worth preserving.

He even brought some to school for show-and-tell.

Skeptic Ginger · 14th January 2020, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Coal mining is the only job Soot Morrison thinks worth preserving.

He even brought some to school for show-and-tell.

Oh that's as pitiful as Senator Inhoff's snowball in Congress to supposedly prove global warming isn't real because it snowed in DC.

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I AGREE

The Atheist · 15th January 2020, 01:37 AM

Good news! Rain on the way.

Bad news! Biblical amounts of it forecast, bringing flooding and landslide.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austra...flash-flooding

lionking · 15th January 2020, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Good news! Rain on the way.

Bad news! Biblical amounts of it forecast, bringing flooding and landslide.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austra...flash-flooding

30 mm in Melbourne in a couple of hours. If this gets to Gippsland it will surely extinguish the fires.

Haven’t had rain like this for months.

Darat · 15th January 2020, 04:05 AM

When do the swarms of locust appear?

arthwollipot · 15th January 2020, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

When do the swarms of locust appear?

Right after the frogs.

Skeptic Ginger · 15th January 2020, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

When do the swarms of locust appear?

UN Locust Watch

Quote:

Desert Locust situation update 13 January 2020
Numerous and very large swarms pose an unprecedented threat to food security and livelihoods in Horn of Africa

In the Horn of Africa, there has been a significant and extremely dangerous increase in swarm activity during the past week in Kenya where numerous, large immature swarms are spreading from the initial invasion areas of the northeast (Mandera county) south to Wajir and Garissa, west along the Ethiopian border (Moyale and Marsabit counties) and southwest into central areas north of Mt Kenya (Isiolo, Samburu, Meru and most recently Laikipia counties). One immature swarm was 60 km long by 40 km wide in the northeast. More swarms are expected to occur in these areas, some of which are already moving north of Mt. Kenya westwards to the Rift Valley (Baringo county) where they could continue northwest to Turkana county, while others will move west along the Ethiopian border, and some swarms could move further south to Tana River county. Some swarms may reach northeast Uganda and southeast South Sudan. In all areas, there is an unprecedented threat to food security and livelihoods. In the northeast, some swarms have started to mature, which means that egg-laying could be imminent in open areas of sandy moist soil where eggs would hatch after about two weeks and give rise to numerous hopper bands in February.

a_unique_person · 16th January 2020, 02:24 PM

Smoke is back again.

arthwollipot · 16th January 2020, 04:50 PM

Yeah, we got an almighty dumping which lasted about five minutes, and then went away. Today the AQI is 164. We might get more rain Sunday/Monday but that's all that's on the 7-day.

I've heard that a bunch of fires were extinguished on the south coast, though. So that's good.

arthwollipot · 16th January 2020, 06:54 PM

Batemans Bay businesses on bushfire-ravaged South Coast sing for Canberra tourists to return

* arthwollipot makes a note to head to the coast for fish and chips soon.

rjh01 · 17th January 2020, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Yeah, we got an almighty dumping which lasted about five minutes, and then went away. Today the AQI is 164. We might get more rain Sunday/Monday but that's all that's on the 7-day.

I've heard that a bunch of fires were extinguished on the south coast, though. So that's good.

The map says they are "under control" or "Being controlled". Cannot find any that are rated as extinguished. Though the difference may only be minor.

Waiting for rain on Sunday and Monday.

Would have thought the rain would have got rid of the smoke but I am wrong. I would not go to the coast until the smoke has gone. I go to the coast to do exercise, not be locked up due to dangerous levels of smoke.

lionking · 17th January 2020, 12:24 AM

It seems the smoke has disappeared over Melbourne now.

Orphia Nay · 18th January 2020, 10:34 PM

Today, the VicEmergency has issued me warnings 5 or 6 times.

A few were about a fire 30 km away.

One was about the Budj Bim fire now being contained, but be vigilant.

And one just now about flood warnings.

Orphia Nay · 18th January 2020, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

This is not going to be a popular post, but I’m starting to get really annoyed at so many people effected by the fires (I’m not talking about those who have lost properties) demanding government support in the media. People who have become unemployed as a consequence get unemployment benefit. Not good enough according to the unions. They should get the average wage instead, which would be a massive slap in the face to all those struggling on Newstart.

Businesses which have missed out on holiday income demanding the government make good their losses. There is insurance they could have taken out to cover this, but nobody bothers as they can’t imagine a bad holiday season.

I saw someone in an isolated town complain that government agencies haven’t visited his town, pointing out that he couldn’t get to see them because of road closures!!!

Others who can’t work because the business closed due to the fires asking for compensation. Businesses (including my last employer) close down all the time without the government throwing lifelines.

I have donated to the fire funds, but with some discomfort as i don’t know where this money is going.

Okay, I’ve dug a hole, so will keep digging. I personally know many people who benefitted handsomely after Black Saturday. People who lost homes (a horrible experience without doubt) got six figure charity payments, on top of insurance payments (not everyone had their homes insured), Centrelink and other government payments and law suit settlements for the many who joined class actions. Many people who stayed rebuilt bigger and better. Others moved to better suburbs.

If you can’t afford home insurance, you can’t really afford a house. If you can’t insure your business, you are a poor businessperson.

Rant over.

Thank you!!

I've been getting disgusted by people thinking they could do better.

By angry mobs hounding (not a strong enough word) Scott Morrison (I voted for an independent).

Saying he "should have done x, y, z, anything but whatever he did today".

I was having quite a long exchange with a friend who had done it.

The whole #auspol is toxic. They gang up on people and lash out without taking in any nuance or spending time reading articles.

Another friend liked something that looked like a threat to another politician.

The Atheist · 19th January 2020, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

The whole #auspol is toxic.

It ain't just Australia.

a_unique_person · 19th January 2020, 05:06 AM

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...19-p53su6.html

This is crazy. Just had flooding and hail the size of golf balls falling in Melbourne, then there is fire out of control north of Melbourne and residents have been told it's too late to flee.

a_unique_person · 19th January 2020, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Thank you!!

I've been getting disgusted by people thinking they could do better.

By angry mobs hounding (not a strong enough word) Scott Morrison (I voted for an independent).

Saying he "should have done x, y, z, anything but whatever he did today".

I was having quite a long exchange with a friend who had done it.

The whole #auspol is toxic. They gang up on people and lash out without taking in any nuance or spending time reading articles.

Another friend liked something that looked like a threat to another politician.

The Liberal Party have been exploiting the Labor Party and Greens trying to do something to prevent these fires for political gain. Now there is nothing Morrison can do except watch it burn and still insist there is no crises and there will still be no change in the deadly policies because they can get power by denying the science and appealing to short term self sinterest. I really fear for the world I am leaving to my children. Senior representatives of the Emergency tried to tell Morrison that this would be the worst year ever for fires and Morrison ignored them.

a_unique_person · 19th January 2020, 08:20 PM

Haul so big in Canberra it was punching holes in a ceiling like gun shots.

Hail at the National Film and Sound Archive HQ in Acton, Canberra 'punctured the roof like bullets https://t.co/qIq1zqeIzq

10th January 2020, 05:21 PM	#321
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,524	The US Government Agency I work for is sending some of it's Hotshot Wildfire teams to Australia to help out. A couple of the fire guys in my office take off from SF International today. The Fire section here has really been following this very closely;we have had a wildfire fighter exchange program going on with the Aussies for some time.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

12th January 2020, 09:07 PM	#322
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Originally Posted by dudalb The US Government Agency I work for is sending some of it's Hotshot Wildfire teams to Australia to help out. A couple of the fire guys in my office take off from SF International today. The Fire section here has really been following this very closely;we have had a wildfire fighter exchange program going on with the Aussies for some time. We appreciate your help.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

12th January 2020, 09:37 PM	#323
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 41,581	Now we wait and see if the semi circle of fire around Canberra strikes out towards it.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

13th January 2020, 02:21 AM	#324
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 44,895	This is not going to be a popular post, but I’m starting to get really annoyed at so many people effected by the fires (I’m not talking about those who have lost properties) demanding government support in the media. People who have become unemployed as a consequence get unemployment benefit. Not good enough according to the unions. They should get the average wage instead, which would be a massive slap in the face to all those struggling on Newstart. Businesses which have missed out on holiday income demanding the government make good their losses. There is insurance they could have taken out to cover this, but nobody bothers as they can’t imagine a bad holiday season. I saw someone in an isolated town complain that government agencies haven’t visited his town, pointing out that he couldn’t get to see them because of road closures!!! Others who can’t work because the business closed due to the fires asking for compensation. Businesses (including my last employer) close down all the time without the government throwing lifelines. I have donated to the fire funds, but with some discomfort as i don’t know where this money is going. Okay, I’ve dug a hole, so will keep digging. I personally know many people who benefitted handsomely after Black Saturday. People who lost homes (a horrible experience without doubt) got six figure charity payments, on top of insurance payments (not everyone had their homes insured), Centrelink and other government payments and law suit settlements for the many who joined class actions. Many people who stayed rebuilt bigger and better. Others moved to better suburbs. If you can’t afford home insurance, you can’t really afford a house. If you can’t insure your business, you are a poor businessperson. Rant over.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill Last edited by lionking; 13th January 2020 at 02:28 AM.

13th January 2020, 04:30 AM	#325
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 41,581	The smoke plume will circle the globe. Bushfire smoke plume expected to lap the globe, NASA says http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-1...-says/11863298 Perth should see a haze in a couple of days.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

13th January 2020, 04:55 AM	#326
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 41,581	Lionking The disruption caused by these fires is going to be beyond what insurance can cover. The knock on effects of road closures, businesses and homes burning down, distortion to the economies and people moving out permanently will be huge on a lot of small communities that weren't that resilient to start with. The most unfair part of this is the other species that are affected. They had no part in creating this disaster but will by far suffer the most from it.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

13th January 2020, 06:04 AM	#327
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 44,895	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Lionking The disruption caused by these fires is going to be beyond what insurance can cover. The knock on effects of road closures, businesses and homes burning down, distortion to the economies and people moving out permanently will be huge on a lot of small communities that weren't that resilient to start with. The most unfair part of this is the other species that are affected. They had no part in creating this disaster but will by far suffer the most from it. Oh yes, I understand this. I still think that some people will use every opportunity to capitalise. Nothing anyone can do about this, but annoying none the less.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

13th January 2020, 12:09 PM	#328
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,348	Originally Posted by lionking This is not going to be a popular post,... The truth quite often isn't. Originally Posted by lionking If you can’t afford home insurance, you can’t really afford a house. If you can’t insure your business, you are a poor businessperson. I utterly agree with this position. Sadly, the mix of technology and "givememoneyforfree" sites encourage the behaviour. Almost daily, I see requests for money from people who have had a father or mother die without life insurance, lose their uninsured home in a fire, or generally have something insurable affect them when they were uninsured. If you have no insurance I am certainly not going to give a damn.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

13th January 2020, 12:50 PM	#329
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 25,195	Who should get Government help? - Fire fighters. They are away from work more than in other seasons - RFS. They need more and better equipment. - people who have lost their homes. But only enough so they can get a change of clothes and other immediate needs until insurance pays out. - Utilities. They will need to rebuild a load of roads and other services. Who else? I suggest that if everyone had insurance for everything then insurance companies would be making massive losses. Edit. Forgot. People who look after wild animals impacted by the fires. Now THEY need money from everyone.
	__________________ This signature is for rent. Last edited by rjh01; 13th January 2020 at 01:48 PM.

13th January 2020, 08:13 PM	#330
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	I am cautiously optimistic about the heavy rain currently being forecast for the end of the week actually occurring.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

13th January 2020, 08:47 PM	#331
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,492	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I am cautiously optimistic about the heavy rain currently being forecast for the end of the week actually occurring. I’ll be not praying for it and hoping you are right. A real drenching would be wonderful.
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,492	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

13th January 2020, 08:50 PM	#332
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Originally Posted by Steve I’ll be not praying for it and hoping you are right. A real drenching would be wonderful. Well... it'll be double-edged. It will damp everything down which will be nice, but it will also create a lot of polluted runoff in the waterways. I wouldn't be surprised if we were drinking brown water for weeks.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

13th January 2020, 08:56 PM	#333
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,492	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Well... it'll be double-edged. It will damp everything down which will be nice, but it will also create a lot of polluted runoff in the waterways. I wouldn't be surprised if we were drinking brown water for weeks. I was thinking that when I read your post. I still think it would be best to limit the fires and deal with the water issues as they arise.
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,492	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

13th January 2020, 09:18 PM	#334
novaphile Quester of Doglets Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,206	Originally Posted by Steve I was thinking that when I read your post. I still think it would be best to limit the fires and deal with the water issues as they arise. Unfortunately, heavy rains after a fire event can raise really significant issues. Particularly flooding and mudslides, because there is reduced vegetation to slow the passage of water. The pollution of waterways is also a big deal, as arthwollipot has already mentioned. So, to back up what is already being said: Fires out good, everything else, not so much.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

13th January 2020, 09:19 PM	#335
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Originally Posted by novaphile Unfortunately, heavy rains after a fire event can raise really significant issues. Particularly flooding and mudslides, because there is reduced vegetation to slow the passage of water. The pollution of waterways is also a big deal, as arthwollipot has already mentioned. So, to back up what is already being said: Fires out good, everything else, not so much. Though given what it is typically like, it's unlikely that we'll get enough rain for flooding and mudslides.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

14th January 2020, 08:35 AM	#336
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,492	Originally Posted by novaphile Unfortunately, heavy rains after a fire event can raise really significant issues. Particularly flooding and mudslides, because there is reduced vegetation to slow the passage of water. The pollution of waterways is also a big deal, as arthwollipot has already mentioned. So, to back up what is already being said: Fires out good, everything else, not so much. I understand that. It is going to happen at some point anyway so having it happen now and put out, or control, the fires at the same time is more advantageous than having it happen in six months when the fires have burned a few million more hectares.
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,492	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

14th January 2020, 03:10 PM	#337
novaphile Quester of Doglets Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,206	Indeed.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

14th January 2020, 03:12 PM	#338
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,524	And I thought the California fires last year were pretty bad......
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

14th January 2020, 05:51 PM	#339
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Originally Posted by dudalb And I thought the California fires last year were pretty bad...... They were. They definitely were. But this is bigger than those and last year's Amazon fires combined.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

14th January 2020, 06:01 PM	#340
Ulf Nereng Student Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Norway Posts: 40	There is a benefit of having the government pay through its' nose to compensate people, in that it will hopefully bring it home to them that preventative measures is cost effective.

14th January 2020, 06:47 PM	#341
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 78,163	I was disgusted today to see Morrison talk about the need to preserve jobs, aka coal jobs, and the news interviewers didn't ask the most blatantly obvious question, "What about everyone else's jobs: farmers, ranchers, tourist entry, all those volunteer fire fighters who've missed months of work, ..."
	__________________ TRUMP CHEATS What color hat should I order with that logo? Red on black maybe? Or black on pink? Space Force. Because feeding poor people is socialism.

14th January 2020, 06:48 PM	#342
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I was disgusted today to see Morrison talk about the need to preserve jobs, aka coal jobs, and the news interviewers didn't ask the most blatantly obvious question, "What about everyone else's jobs: farmers, ranchers, tourist entry, all those volunteer fire fighters who've missed months of work, ..." That's how I feel every time the man opens his mouth.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

14th January 2020, 07:41 PM	#343
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 6,773	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I was disgusted today to see Morrison talk about the need to preserve jobs, aka coal jobs, and the news interviewers didn't ask the most blatantly obvious question, "What about everyone else's jobs: farmers, ranchers, tourist entry, all those volunteer fire fighters who've missed months of work, ..." Coal mining is the only job Soot Morrison thinks worth preserving. He even brought some to school for show-and-tell.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

15th January 2020, 01:37 AM	#345
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,348	Good news! Rain on the way. Bad news! Biblical amounts of it forecast, bringing flooding and landslide. https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austra...flash-flooding
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

15th January 2020, 02:18 AM	#346
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 44,895	Originally Posted by The Atheist Good news! Rain on the way. Bad news! Biblical amounts of it forecast, bringing flooding and landslide. https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austra...flash-flooding 30 mm in Melbourne in a couple of hours. If this gets to Gippsland it will surely extinguish the fires. Haven’t had rain like this for months.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th January 2020, 04:05 AM	#347
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 89,349	When do the swarms of locust appear?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

15th January 2020, 06:41 PM	#348
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Originally Posted by Darat When do the swarms of locust appear? Right after the frogs.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

15th January 2020, 10:15 PM	#349
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 78,163	Originally Posted by Darat When do the swarms of locust appear? UN Locust Watch Quote: Desert Locust situation update 13 January 2020 Numerous and very large swarms pose an unprecedented threat to food security and livelihoods in Horn of Africa In the Horn of Africa, there has been a significant and extremely dangerous increase in swarm activity during the past week in Kenya where numerous, large immature swarms are spreading from the initial invasion areas of the northeast (Mandera county) south to Wajir and Garissa, west along the Ethiopian border (Moyale and Marsabit counties) and southwest into central areas north of Mt Kenya (Isiolo, Samburu, Meru and most recently Laikipia counties). One immature swarm was 60 km long by 40 km wide in the northeast. More swarms are expected to occur in these areas, some of which are already moving north of Mt. Kenya westwards to the Rift Valley (Baringo county) where they could continue northwest to Turkana county, while others will move west along the Ethiopian border, and some swarms could move further south to Tana River county. Some swarms may reach northeast Uganda and southeast South Sudan. In all areas, there is an unprecedented threat to food security and livelihoods. In the northeast, some swarms have started to mature, which means that egg-laying could be imminent in open areas of sandy moist soil where eggs would hatch after about two weeks and give rise to numerous hopper bands in February.
	__________________ TRUMP CHEATS What color hat should I order with that logo? Red on black maybe? Or black on pink? Space Force. Because feeding poor people is socialism.

16th January 2020, 02:24 PM	#350
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 41,581	Smoke is back again.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

16th January 2020, 04:50 PM	#351
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Yeah, we got an almighty dumping which lasted about five minutes, and then went away. Today the AQI is 164. We might get more rain Sunday/Monday but that's all that's on the 7-day. I've heard that a bunch of fires were extinguished on the south coast, though. So that's good.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

16th January 2020, 06:54 PM	#352
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 65,199	Batemans Bay businesses on bushfire-ravaged South Coast sing for Canberra tourists to return * arthwollipot makes a note to head to the coast for fish and chips soon.
	__________________ Self-described nerd. My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something. - Randall Munroe

17th January 2020, 12:20 AM	#353
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 25,195	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Yeah, we got an almighty dumping which lasted about five minutes, and then went away. Today the AQI is 164. We might get more rain Sunday/Monday but that's all that's on the 7-day. I've heard that a bunch of fires were extinguished on the south coast, though. So that's good. The map says they are "under control" or "Being controlled". Cannot find any that are rated as extinguished. Though the difference may only be minor. Waiting for rain on Sunday and Monday. Would have thought the rain would have got rid of the smoke but I am wrong. I would not go to the coast until the smoke has gone. I go to the coast to do exercise, not be locked up due to dangerous levels of smoke.
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17th January 2020, 12:24 AM	#354
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 44,895	It seems the smoke has disappeared over Melbourne now.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

18th January 2020, 10:34 PM	#355
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 37,231	Today, the VicEmergency has issued me warnings 5 or 6 times. A few were about a fire 30 km away. One was about the Budj Bim fire now being contained, but be vigilant. And one just now about flood warnings.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

18th January 2020, 10:38 PM	#356
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 37,231	Originally Posted by lionking This is not going to be a popular post, but I’m starting to get really annoyed at so many people effected by the fires (I’m not talking about those who have lost properties) demanding government support in the media. People who have become unemployed as a consequence get unemployment benefit. Not good enough according to the unions. They should get the average wage instead, which would be a massive slap in the face to all those struggling on Newstart. Businesses which have missed out on holiday income demanding the government make good their losses. There is insurance they could have taken out to cover this, but nobody bothers as they can’t imagine a bad holiday season. I saw someone in an isolated town complain that government agencies haven’t visited his town, pointing out that he couldn’t get to see them because of road closures!!! Others who can’t work because the business closed due to the fires asking for compensation. Businesses (including my last employer) close down all the time without the government throwing lifelines. I have donated to the fire funds, but with some discomfort as i don’t know where this money is going. Okay, I’ve dug a hole, so will keep digging. I personally know many people who benefitted handsomely after Black Saturday. People who lost homes (a horrible experience without doubt) got six figure charity payments, on top of insurance payments (not everyone had their homes insured), Centrelink and other government payments and law suit settlements for the many who joined class actions. Many people who stayed rebuilt bigger and better. Others moved to better suburbs. If you can’t afford home insurance, you can’t really afford a house. If you can’t insure your business, you are a poor businessperson. Rant over. Thank you!! I've been getting disgusted by people thinking they could do better. By angry mobs hounding (not a strong enough word) Scott Morrison (I voted for an independent). Saying he "should have done x, y, z, anything but whatever he did today". I was having quite a long exchange with a friend who had done it. The whole #auspol is toxic. They gang up on people and lash out without taking in any nuance or spending time reading articles. Another friend liked something that looked like a threat to another politician.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".