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Old 11th January 2020, 01:30 PM   #1
catsmate
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Everyone ready for Tuesday?

Windows 7 goes End of Life on Tuesday 14JAN2020. No more updates and patches unless you've paid for the corporate extension.

I take it everyone is prepared?
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Old 11th January 2020, 01:38 PM   #2
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I'm using an old, slow Windows 7 PC right now and I have no idea if my company (they provided the computer) is up to date. One of the IT guys told me they would probably be sending out a new PC before the end of the year, but that's come and gone with nary another word about it. The two other PCs they sent more recently (yes, I have to use three PCs) are both Windows 10.

I imagine they've probably signed up for continued updates if for no other reason than we're subject to government inspection and could take a real beating if too many PCs are lagging behind in terms of security.
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Old 11th January 2020, 03:18 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I'm using an old, slow Windows 7 PC right now and I have no idea if my company (they provided the computer) is up to date. One of the IT guys told me they would probably be sending out a new PC before the end of the year, but that's come and gone with nary another word about it. The two other PCs they sent more recently (yes, I have to use three PCs) are both Windows 10.

I imagine they've probably signed up for continued updates if for no other reason than we're subject to government inspection and could take a real beating if too many PCs are lagging behind in terms of security.
True, there would be significant liability issues wrt duty of care and data protection. Only Win7 Professional and Enterprise editions will be able to update after Tuesday and only if their VLK holders page paid.
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Old 11th January 2020, 03:54 PM   #4
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There was a good post on the Vivaldi (bestest browser) Blog recently that makes the point of Why you should replace Windows 7 with Linux

Key:

Originally Posted by Team Vivaldi
Until recently, for the average Windows user, replacing Windows with Linux was a no-go. In fact, you might still be thinking of Linux as that OS that requires you to write a lot of command lines in Terminal and is not suitable for those with zero programming skills. But rest assured that things have moved on in the Linux world. It has become much more accessible to the average user. If like most average users, you use your computer to browse the internet, watch movies and work on some documents, then you will be just fine. Install and enjoy!
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Old 11th January 2020, 04:01 PM   #5
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With all my Linux shilling in recent years, there has always been the small club of like-minded Tuxedos and the horde of clerks who need Windows for their clerking, but I can't remember a single person who was brave enough to actually (at least try to) make the transition. It would be interesting to watch.
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Old 11th January 2020, 05:00 PM   #6
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What Tuesday means to me: Large pizza for $12 at Papa Murphy's! Plus sales tax comes to $13.08.
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Old 11th January 2020, 09:45 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
With all my Linux shilling in recent years, there has always been the small club of like-minded Tuxedos and the horde of clerks who need Windows for their clerking, but I can't remember a single person who was brave enough to actually (at least try to) make the transition. It would be interesting to watch.
Been on Win 10 for a year now, largely glitch-free. Yeah, they are never going to fix that stupid bug that makes the task bar show up even when you are not near the bottom of the screen, but that's an easy fix.
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Old 12th January 2020, 04:27 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
There was a good post on the Vivaldi (bestest browser) Blog recently that makes the point of Why you should replace Windows 7 with Linux

Key:

Could we stick to realities and avoid the Linux evangelism please.
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Old 12th January 2020, 01:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

Could we stick to realities and avoid the Linux evangelism please.
Why? I have PCs running both win10 and linux in the house. My kid is happy borrowing my linux Mint laptop when she can't find her Yoga. I think she was 8 when she first tried it and I just had to tell her Word was called Writer, otherwise no issues.
3 of our PCs though have had horrid issues with major windows updates making them useless for days on end.
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Old 13th January 2020, 07:23 AM   #10
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People should use whatever they're comfortable with. I've used both OS's, and there are highs and lows of each. Windows 7 was a good OS, and I don't run into consistent issues with Windows 10. Perhaps if I had to pay to upgrade I might give Linux a shot, but as it was I had no need to pay anything to get to windows 10. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Old 13th January 2020, 07:25 AM   #11
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We started a mass upgrade plan about 6 months back and finished up just before the beginning of the year. Now to spend the next month dealing with "OMG everything looks slightly different I can no longer function!" from most of my users.
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Old 13th January 2020, 08:51 AM   #12
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We dealt with the same nonsense at my office. People having a nervous breakdown because the Start menu looks different. The really painful part is we support multiple domains and environments. Several groups need to access multiple domains and we had some Rube Goldberg type setups to access certain folders. Windows 10 fouled a bunch of those up and we only recently got that specific department fully migrated. Keep in mind, the company wide roll out started 3 years ago (at least).
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Old 13th January 2020, 09:37 AM   #13
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When I retired less than 10 years ago, my very large company was using XP. I suppose they MIGHT have gotten to 7 since then.
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Old 13th January 2020, 01:41 PM   #14
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Wednesday should be even more fun. That's when Microsoft rolls out the new version of Edge browser based on Chromium, replacing the old one based on their own rendering engine. Heise writes that while the old version won't be deleted immediately (that will happen later on), it needs some tricks to still access it after the update.

Good luck with "your" computer and internet, Windows 10 users.
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Old 13th January 2020, 01:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Wednesday should be even more fun. That's when Microsoft rolls out the new version of Edge browser based on Chromium, replacing the old one based on their own rendering engine. Heise writes that while the old version won't be deleted immediately (that will happen later on), it needs some tricks to still access it after the update.

Good luck with "your" computer and internet, Windows 10 users.
LoL who the **** uses Edge? Anyone with half a brain uses anything else. I don't even allow Edge to be used in our office.

I get the whole "linux is like...totes superior" but that is seriously debatable, not like that's some new information or anything. I think of all the migrations, upgrades and sunsets of software, this one was handled the best. They gave way more than ample time to upgrade, the process to upgrade was simplistic (at least for me, sounds like others had problems), and I didn't run into any real software issues. Compatibility was almost a non issue.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:10 PM   #16
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I use Edge all the time.... to download Chrome on new PC installs.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
LoL who the **** uses Edge?

Apparently slightly under 9% of desktops in the USA. Which to me is surprisingly low. I would have guessed much higher, maybe around 25%.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I use Edge all the time.... to download Chrome on new PC installs.
That's about as far as I get with it for sure. I get to ninite and then delete the icon off of the desktop and remove it from the start menu.

My charges in the office don't have the computer knowledge to go through and find it again. For the most part as long as I can keep their bookmarks in place they don't really care all that much.

That being said, I think I have 2 windows 7 laptops left that I haven't bothered with because they're old and I'm waiting for my boss not to notice so I can throw them away.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Apparently slightly under 9% of desktops in the USA. Which to me is surprisingly low. I would have guessed much higher, maybe around 25%.
I'd say that's just about where I'd put the number. Older people that aren't really familiar with how to get a new browser, or how to get their bookmarks setup. Too bad that site doesn't break it down by age to confirm my theory.

I don't personally know anyone that uses Edge on a regular basis. As in, for anything more than Joe and I have said.

ETA: I'm actually more shocked that Firefox has dropped so much. A decade ago and I'd guess they were in the 40-50% range.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:27 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I'd say that's just about where I'd put the number. Older people that aren't really familiar with how to get a new browser, or how to get their bookmarks setup. Too bad that site doesn't break it down by age to confirm my theory.

I don't personally know anyone that uses Edge on a regular basis. As in, for anything more than Joe and I have said.

ETA: I'm actually more shocked that Firefox has dropped so much. A decade ago and I'd guess they were in the 40-50% range.

I think the thing that made me guess so wrong is that almost everybody uses google services these days, and if it's "only" gMail, so the folks who will enter the web with default Edge on Windows will get so aggressively nagged by google to switch to Chrome that they give in although they couldn't care less about what is under the hood of that "Internet" icon.

As to Firefox, it still has a 25% share of the desktop market - but only here in Germany.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:31 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That being said, I think I have 2 windows 7 laptops left that I haven't bothered with because they're old and I'm waiting for my boss not to notice so I can throw them away.

Resurrect them with Linux and give them to a charity.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I use Edge all the time.... to download Chrome on new PC installs.
It does have one other purpose. I normally use Chrome, but it stores cookies. At times I want to see what the Internet looks like without those cookies, so I use Edge for that.

In other words I may want to see what this forum looks like without being logged on. And I do not want to log off. So I use Edge.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
It does have one other purpose. I normally use Chrome, but stores cookies. At times I want to see what the Internet looks like without those cookies, so I use Edge for that.

In other words I may want to see what this forum looks like without being logged on. And I do not want to log off. So I use Edge.
Well we don't have Firefox as part of our normal software roll out, so yeah if, for instance, a webpage isn't coming up or rendering properly or some plugin isn't working or whatnot I'll often copy paste the URL into Edge just to see if it comes up in that in basic "Narrow it down to the user, software, or hardware as soon as possible" universal law of troubleshooting.

But again even that's different from functionally using it as a browser for work.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Resurrect them with Linux and give them to a charity.
I don't hate charities enough to let them use these laptops. When I mean old I mean old, old.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't hate charities enough to let them use these laptops. When I mean old I mean old, old.

Specify.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
LoL who the **** uses Edge? Anyone with half a brain uses anything else. I don't even allow Edge to be used in our office.
The company I mentioned above is probably still using IE. They had internal pages that wouldn't work on anything else.
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Old 13th January 2020, 02:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I'd say that's just about where I'd put the number. Older people that aren't really familiar with how to get a new browser, or how to get their bookmarks setup. Too bad that site doesn't break it down by age to confirm my theory.

I don't personally know anyone that uses Edge on a regular basis. As in, for anything more than Joe and I have said.

ETA: I'm actually more shocked that Firefox has dropped so much. A decade ago and I'd guess they were in the 40-50% range.

Yeah, I guess the sheeple just want to use Chrome so Google can keep an eye on them.
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Old 13th January 2020, 03:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Windows 7 goes End of Life on Tuesday 14JAN2020. No more updates and patches unless you've paid for the corporate extension.

I take it everyone is prepared?
A survey turned up exactly one win7 machine. It's a test platform so is burnable. Cry me a river.
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Old 13th January 2020, 11:19 PM   #29
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In the course of my work I am required to use Internet Explorer, Edge and Chrome.
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:29 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
In the course of my work I am required to use Internet Explorer, Edge and Chrome.

FTFY
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:01 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Specify.
Old, old Dell laptops. I can fire one up later to check the stats but it takes forever. I think the fan is dying in one of them.

I do donate computers to charity. I had a bunch of 2011 Mac's that someone gave me when they upgraded for me to destroy. I got new hard drives, replaced it and donated them. They were worth it though. These would be more troublesome than beneficial I think.

Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Yeah, I guess the sheeple just want to use Chrome so Google can keep an eye on them.
LoL I'd assume the majority of American's just don't really care. Those would be people like me. I take extremely basic precautions to protect my security. I use 1.1.1.1 for my home DNS, I've built my own VPN system, but other than that I just can't be bothered. I follow the same rule on the internet as I do if I'm on-site at a customers office. Operate like there's a camera on you.
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Old 14th January 2020, 01:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
LoL who the **** uses Edge?
On my corporate machine, where I have no rights to change fricking anything, I have to use both IE and Edge because certain of our apps work with one but not the other. No, I have no idea either.


On the more general Windows front, all the Windows machines in my extended family are now upgraded to 10 except for one ancient laptop that is still running Vista for legacy reasons. It never goes online.
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Old 14th January 2020, 01:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Old, old Dell laptops. I can fire one up later to check the stats but it takes forever. I think the fan is dying in one of them.

I do donate computers to charity. I had a bunch of 2011 Mac's that someone gave me when they upgraded for me to destroy. I got new hard drives, replaced it and donated them. They were worth it though. These would be more troublesome than beneficial I think.

Basically, what decides if old hardware can smoothly run a modern, enduser-directed desktop Linux distribution like Mint or Ubuntu are two things:
  • Processor power: Rule of thumb here is that every 64-bit Intel CPU will be ok, that means basically anything younger than a dozen years.
  • Memory: This is the bottleneck mainly due to the horrible design of modern websites with their tons of crap libraries embedded etc. 2GB of RAM is ok but you will run into swap occasionally. 3GB are sufficient. Of course memory for old machines is dirt cheap.
And I'm talking really smoothly here. I myself have recently equipped my ancient X30 ThinkPad (built 2003, some single core Pentium with 1.2 Ghz, 512 MB RAM) with a slim Linux and it is snappier than it ever was with the original Windows 2000. Everything including complex programs like GIMP works perfectly - until you visit the commercial 2020 web. That kills it.
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Last edited by Childlike Empress; 14th January 2020 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 14th January 2020, 01:38 PM   #34
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I use Firefox. I have no idea if it's better or worse, just a force of habit I guess. It's what "I've always clicked on" to get on the internet. Well, I shouldn't say always. I used Chrome years ago (and Netscape back when that was a thing). I have no idea why I switched. Probably some pretentious IT guy convinced me Firefox was a better option.
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Old 14th January 2020, 07:17 PM   #35
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by malbui View Post
On my corporate machine, where I have no rights to change fricking anything, I have to use both IE and Edge because certain of our apps work with one but not the other. No, I have no idea either.
Yes, that's my reason as well. Some apps only work in Edge, some only in IE, and some only in Chrome.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:45 AM   #36
Trebuchet
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Wow! Yesterday was Tuesday and Bam! Just like that I had an application crash and lost the file I was working on!
On the Win10 machine, the old Win7 is doing just fine.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:15 AM   #37
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For anyone finally embracing Windows 10, the start menu is an abomination, and can be replaced by this:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

I used Classic Shell from the first day I tried Windows 10 (back when it first released), and even though I rarely use Windows at all, it makes the experience at least tolerable. (I don't even know how regular users can stomach that nasty default start menu.)
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:26 AM   #38
plague311
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
For anyone finally embracing Windows 10, the start menu is an abomination, and can be replaced by this:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

I used Classic Shell from the first day I tried Windows 10 (back when it first released), and even though I rarely use Windows at all, it makes the experience at least tolerable. (I don't even know how regular users can stomach that nasty default start menu.)
I actually really like the Windows 10 start menu. Mostly because the search bar is all I use. I never look for control panel, or bounce around with multiple clicks. I type "update" in the bar and I get windows updates. People don't like the bar though too, I hear a lot of complaints about it. I do enjoy the double click nature of the start menu now too, if you do have to go navigating.

It's saved me a lot of questions around the office because it's fairly newbie friendly.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:39 AM   #39
theprestige
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
For anyone finally embracing Windows 10, the start menu is an abomination, and can be replaced by this:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

I used Classic Shell from the first day I tried Windows 10 (back when it first released), and even though I rarely use Windows at all, it makes the experience at least tolerable. (I don't even know how regular users can stomach that nasty default start menu.)
I was an XP holdout. I was a Win7 holdout.

I don't mind the Win10 Start Menu. But I don't use the start menu much anyway.

Discussions about user interfaces and experience are interesting to me. But they spiral so quickly into hate speech that I generally don't see the point. Why is it important for you to disparage people who don't mind the Win10 start menu?
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Old 15th January 2020, 01:26 PM   #40
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I actually really like the Windows 10 start menu. Mostly because the search bar is all I use. I never look for control panel, or bounce around with multiple clicks. I type "update" in the bar and I get windows updates. People don't like the bar though too, I hear a lot of complaints about it. I do enjoy the double click nature of the start menu now too, if you do have to go navigating.

It's saved me a lot of questions around the office because it's fairly newbie friendly.
Ditto on the search bar. It's all I use in 7, too. While bouncing around the web requires a lot of mousing, most of what I do benefits greatly from keeping my hands on the keyboard as much as possible. If I need to bring up notepad, it's windows button, type in "notepad," press enter and done...it's much, much faster than it sounds.
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