Woman jailed for posing as boy to assault girls

zooterkin · 11th January 2020, 07:43 AM

Another slightly bizarre case in the media this week.

Quote:

A woman who posed as a teenage boy to groom girls as young as 13 online and travelled around the country to sexually abuse them has been jailed for eight years.

Some of the vulnerable girls targeted by Gemma Watts, 21, were so traumatised by their ordeals and a sense of betrayal that they have self-harmed or tried to kill themselves.

Watts, who used the alias “Jake Waton”, was jailed for seven offences involving four girls but detectives believe she may have groomed as many as 50 teenagers and are appealing for other victims to come forward.

dann · 11th January 2020, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Another slightly bizarre case in the media this week.

It's interesting that somebody with a very low IQ can be as devious as this:

Quote:

“The level of manipulation and deceit used by Watts to snare her victims in this case was truly shocking.”

In this respect, she reminds me of the very stable genius.

And it wouldn't require a lot of intelligence to realize that it would be easier to approach girls who are into girls, not boys, even though it narrows the field, unless the whole point of her kink is to fool straight girls.

William Parcher · 11th January 2020, 09:28 AM

Maybe this person is a "heterosexual man inside a woman's body" and therefore pursuing lesbians is not of any interest. If so, then this person doesn't want a female who is interested in females... because this person identifies as male.

But I don't know.

Venom · 11th January 2020, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Maybe this person is a "heterosexual man inside a woman's body" and therefore pursuing lesbians is not of any interest. If so, then this person doesn't want a female who is interested in females... because this person identifies as male.

But I don't know.

Not out of the question.

I'm not sure what grooming is supposed to mean though. Seeking and befriending them to get them to open up?

ETA: I guess it's a specific legal term.

PhantomWolf · 11th January 2020, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

Not out of the question.

I'm not sure what grooming is supposed to mean though. Seeking and befriending them to get them to open up?

ETA: I guess it's a specific legal term.

Originally Posted by US Legal

Child grooming refers to an act of deliberately establishing an emotional connection with a child to prepare the child for child abuse.

So yes.

Venom · 11th January 2020, 06:19 PM

Being low IQ she probably is for all intents and purposes a child herself, unless that's the sociopath in her talking.

It's probably too intangible a factor to make a dent in public opinion, or the judge's for that matter.

rjh01 · 11th January 2020, 07:08 PM

I think this shows that a person can still be very bright in certain ways, even if they have low IQ. Like they have a good ability to get people to like them in order to control them. But give them a maths test and they will do poorly.

Brainster · 11th January 2020, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

I think this shows that a person can still be very bright in certain ways, even if they have low IQ. Like they have a good ability to get people to like them in order to control them. But give them a maths test and they will do poorly.

Looking at the photos of her as a boy, I have to assume that the victims were a few standard deviations below the mean themselves.

Hungry81 · 12th January 2020, 02:55 AM

I remember a couple of years back about a similar occurance. That fe/male got sent to prison. Then there was that pornographic actress who was e-chastised to suicide because she didn't want to screw a gay actor on film.

The rules and implications about a gay or straight cisgender person unwittingly sleeping with a transgender of either persuasion is confusing, but not something that is likely to personally affect me.

Darat · 12th January 2020, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Looking at the photos of her as a boy, I have to assume that the victims were a few standard deviations below the mean themselves.

Let's just say that what you say is correct, what does it matter, what relevance does it have?

rjh01 · 12th January 2020, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Let's just say that what you say is correct, what does it matter, what relevance does it have?

It just makes it easier for her to do. Changes the event from almost impossible to believable. She was going for the vulnerable. She may have targeted certain people but they said 'go away, you are suspect.' So she left them alone and went for someone else. Just like when Microsoft rings you up.

Darat · 13th January 2020, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by rjh01

It just makes it easier for her to do. Changes the event from almost impossible to believable. She was going for the vulnerable. She may have targeted certain people but they said 'go away, you are suspect.' So she left them alone and went for someone else. Just like when Microsoft rings you up.

Apparently she also fooled the parents of some of the girls over multiple times. I suggest that folk remember we often see what we expect to see.

Armitage72 · 13th January 2020, 07:11 AM

It's my understanding that female predators operating online are quite rare. I remember the law enforcement people who assisted in the making of "To Catch a Predator" saying that the show only caught male predators because female predators most commonly target victims to whom they already have access.

Darat · 13th January 2020, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

It's my understanding that female predators operating online are quite rare. I remember the law enforcement people who assisted in the making of "To Catch a Predator" saying that the show only caught male predators because female predators most commonly target victims to whom they already have access.

I suspect with the changes in culture and society over the last decades we will see this changing.

Ian Osborne · 13th January 2020, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Apparently she also fooled the parents of some of the girls over multiple times. I suggest that folk remember we often see what we expect to see.

Or maybe they suspected, and didn't want to mention anything, in case their daughter was in a consensual relationship with another girl, but not yet ready to come out.

William Parcher · 13th January 2020, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Apparently she also fooled the parents of some of the girls over multiple times. I suggest that folk remember we often see what we expect to see.

If the parents are woke then the concept of "that boy is a girl" is nowhere in their heads. The person visiting their daughter is whatever they say they are. To tell their daughter that the boy isn't actually a boy is a stark demonstration of not being woke.

Arcade22 · 14th January 2020, 09:54 AM

Quote:

In her victim impact statement, the teenager said her “heart exploded” when she found out Jake was an adult woman. She said she had loved Jake and thought she could tell him everything.

I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether.

Armitage72 · 14th January 2020, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether.

It's probably similar to "no two people have ever loved each other as much as we do", and just as nauseating.

bluesjnr · 14th January 2020, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether.

Originally Posted by Armitage72

It's probably similar to "no two people have ever loved each other as much as we do", and just as nauseating.

Yeah, I know stupid bitch eh!

Arcade22 · 14th January 2020, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

Yeah, I know stupid bitch eh!

If you say it so, i guess it must be so.

Ziggurat · 14th January 2020, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether.

First of the North Star, baby.

rjh01 · 14th January 2020, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether.

That expression does exist. Here is one example

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...box=1565775467

Quote:

“This man, who worked at a refugee camp near Zwolle in the Netherlands, out of the kindness of his own heart bought me a bike. My five-year-old heart exploded with joy,” she said.

Darat · 14th January 2020, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

If the parents are woke then the concept of "that boy is a girl" is nowhere in their heads. The person visiting their daughter is whatever they say they are. To tell their daughter that the boy isn't actually a boy is a stark demonstration of not being woke.

How would they have met her if they weren't awake?

William Parcher · 14th January 2020, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

How would they have met ~~her~~ him if they weren't awake?

I FTFY and please wake up.

Arcade22 · 14th January 2020, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

I FTFY and please wake up.

Did we just skip a step or something? Like how did we go from "she was cross-dressing" to "she self-identifies as a man/boy"?

Hungry81 · 14th January 2020, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Did we just skip a step or something? Like how did we go from "she was cross-dressing" to "she self-identifies as a man/boy"?

Because the transgender "its true if you really believe it, biology be damned!" argument is his best defense. Plus his girlfriends were in love with a man, and they are not lesbians or bi sexual.

Case Closed.

If he wants to admit its a scam, or taking a perverse pleasure in fooling cisgender heterosexual girls into lesbian acts, plead guilty, or admit to being a desperate girl who made foolish choices in the search for love, that's a convincing evidence that he's actually a woman. Otherwise who are we to judge a man with a vagina, presumably female breasts and a uterus and ovaries? Its not his fault he was born that way.

.

I Am The Scum · 14th January 2020, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Did we just skip a step or something? Like how did we go from "she was cross-dressing" to "she self-identifies as a man/boy"?

He's making yet another poor attempt at edgy humor.

Darat · 14th January 2020, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

I FTFY and please wake up.

Nope she was a she.

Elagabalus · 14th January 2020, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

If the parents are woke then the concept of "that boy is a girl" is nowhere in their heads. The person visiting their daughter is whatever they say they are. To tell their daughter that the boy isn't actually a boy is a stark demonstration of not being woke.

You didn't read my link from from last summer.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=137

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

If you haven't already, you should check out the documentary "The Imposter". There's more twists and turns than you can shake a stick at.

There's also this famous case in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...end-having-sex

There might be a BBC special up on Youtube about it.

She always wore a hoodie* when they would meet up, and even though the two were very good friends (before all this unpleasantness happened) the friend did not recognize her. Bizarre.

*just like the dude from yesterday.

Giordano · 14th January 2020, 05:18 PM

So unfortunate part of this discussion has degenerated into the often revisited anti-transgender views of certain posters. I’ll avoid asking why this is such an emotional issue for some, but instead point out that there is already a lengthy thread on this topic.

As for this thread: there is no evidence the perp considered themselves a male. Second the gender identity of the perp, cis or trans, does not affect the nature or severity of the crime.

Roger Ramjets · 14th January 2020, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by dann

In this respect, she reminds me of the very stable genius.

Except that if she was biologically a male (like the 'very stable genius') we would never have heard about it. Or if we did it would be just be dismissed as 'locker room talk'.

Yet another example of the sexism ingrained in our society.

bluesjnr · 15th January 2020, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

If you say it so, i guess it must be so.

Just summarising you. I caught your drift.

Arcade22 · 15th January 2020, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

Just summarising you. I caught your drift.

I commented on the expression she used, then you brought up the fact that she was a "stupid bitch" out of nowhere. I'm not sure how inferred that i agreed with your opinion about her being a "stupid bitch" from what i posted, but whatever.

Armitage72 · 15th January 2020, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Giordano

So unfortunate part of this discussion has degenerated into the often revisited anti-transgender views of certain posters. I’ll avoid asking why this is such an emotional issue for some, but instead point out that there is already a lengthy thread on this topic.

As for this thread: there is no evidence the perp considered themselves a male. Second the gender identity of the perp, cis or trans, does not affect the nature or severity of the crime.

It reminds me of a conversation I saw on another forum years ago. The topic had come up of a female professional wrestler who had started doing adult movies, and someone commented on the genital alterations that she had experienced due to prolonged steroid use, expressing regret about what she had done to herself for her career. Suddenly someone started accusing them of being transphobic, despite the fact that this woman had never identified as transgender or said anything suggesting that she was transgender.

bluesjnr · 15th January 2020, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

I commented on the expression she used, then you brought up the fact that she was a "stupid bitch" out of nowhere. I'm not sure how inferred that i agreed with your opinion about her being a "stupid bitch" from what i posted, but whatever.

It didn't, you inferred it. Own it.

Rolfe · 15th January 2020, 08:02 AM

The thing is, we are where we are. Anyone questioning the actual sex of someone who looks ambiguous is laying themselves wide open to damaging accusations of transphobia. It's perfectly possible at least some parents thought the woman was a transman, and said nothing because they knew that remarking on a transman's actual sex is considered socially unacceptable.

Darat · 15th January 2020, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

The thing is, we are where we are. Anyone questioning the actual sex of someone who looks ambiguous is laying themselves wide open to damaging accusations of transphobia. It's perfectly possible at least some parents thought the woman was a transman, and said nothing because they knew that remarking on a transman's actual sex is considered socially unacceptable.

Some might have thought she was a reptilian shape shifter. We have just as much evidence for that as for your speculation.

Can't we stick to the facts we have?

Arcade22 · 15th January 2020, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

It didn't, you inferred it. Own it.

You were the one who called her a stupid bitch, not me.

3point14 · 15th January 2020, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Some might have thought she was a reptilian shape shifter. We have just as much evidence for that as for your speculation.

Can't we stick to the facts we have?

Are you saying that if you thought your child's new playmate was actually of the opposite gender, you would broach the issue?

Because it seemed reasonable to me to suggest that it may not be politic to mention it.

Ian Osborne · 15th January 2020, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

It reminds me of a conversation I saw on another forum years ago. The topic had come up of a female professional wrestler who had started doing adult movies, and someone commented on the genital alterations that she had experienced due to prolonged steroid use, expressing regret about what she had done to herself for her career. Suddenly someone started accusing them of being transphobic, despite the fact that this woman had never identified as transgender or said anything suggesting that she was transgender.

Chyna?

11th January 2020, 07:43 AM	#1
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Photo Contest Winner Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,031	Woman jailed for posing as boy to assault girls Another slightly bizarre case in the media this week. Quote: A woman who posed as a teenage boy to groom girls as young as 13 online and travelled around the country to sexually abuse them has been jailed for eight years. Some of the vulnerable girls targeted by Gemma Watts, 21, were so traumatised by their ordeals and a sense of betrayal that they have self-harmed or tried to kill themselves. Watts, who used the alias “Jake Waton”, was jailed for seven offences involving four girls but detectives believe she may have groomed as many as 50 teenagers and are appealing for other victims to come forward.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

11th January 2020, 09:03 AM	#2
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 13,299	Originally Posted by zooterkin Another slightly bizarre case in the media this week. It's interesting that somebody with a very low IQ can be as devious as this: Quote: “The level of manipulation and deceit used by Watts to snare her victims in this case was truly shocking.” In this respect, she reminds me of the very stable genius. And it wouldn't require a lot of intelligence to realize that it would be easier to approach girls who are into girls, not boys, even though it narrows the field, unless the whole point of her kink is to fool straight girls.
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

11th January 2020, 09:28 AM	#3
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,729	Maybe this person is a "heterosexual man inside a woman's body" and therefore pursuing lesbians is not of any interest. If so, then this person doesn't want a female who is interested in females... because this person identifies as male. But I don't know.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

11th January 2020, 05:05 PM	#5
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,116	Originally Posted by Venom Not out of the question. I'm not sure what grooming is supposed to mean though. Seeking and befriending them to get them to open up? ETA: I guess it's a specific legal term. Originally Posted by US Legal Child grooming refers to an act of deliberately establishing an emotional connection with a child to prepare the child for child abuse. So yes.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

11th January 2020, 07:08 PM	#7
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,421	I think this shows that a person can still be very bright in certain ways, even if they have low IQ. Like they have a good ability to get people to like them in order to control them. But give them a maths test and they will do poorly.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

11th January 2020, 02:23 PM	#4
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,861	Originally Posted by William Parcher Maybe this person is a "heterosexual man inside a woman's body" and therefore pursuing lesbians is not of any interest. If so, then this person doesn't want a female who is interested in females... because this person identifies as male. But I don't know. Not out of the question. I'm not sure what grooming is supposed to mean though. Seeking and befriending them to get them to open up? ETA: I guess it's a specific legal term.

11th January 2020, 06:19 PM	#6
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,861	Being low IQ she probably is for all intents and purposes a child herself, unless that's the sociopath in her talking. It's probably too intangible a factor to make a dent in public opinion, or the judge's for that matter.

11th January 2020, 09:49 PM	#8
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,168	Originally Posted by rjh01 I think this shows that a person can still be very bright in certain ways, even if they have low IQ. Like they have a good ability to get people to like them in order to control them. But give them a maths test and they will do poorly. Looking at the photos of her as a boy, I have to assume that the victims were a few standard deviations below the mean themselves.
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12th January 2020, 02:55 AM	#9
Hungry81 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,355	I remember a couple of years back about a similar occurance. That fe/male got sent to prison. Then there was that pornographic actress who was e-chastised to suicide because she didn't want to screw a gay actor on film. The rules and implications about a gay or straight cisgender person unwittingly sleeping with a transgender of either persuasion is confusing, but not something that is likely to personally affect me.
Hungry81 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,355

12th January 2020, 07:38 AM	#10
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,143	Originally Posted by Brainster Looking at the photos of her as a boy, I have to assume that the victims were a few standard deviations below the mean themselves. Let's just say that what you say is correct, what does it matter, what relevance does it have?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

12th January 2020, 01:05 PM	#11
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by Darat Let's just say that what you say is correct, what does it matter, what relevance does it have? It just makes it easier for her to do. Changes the event from almost impossible to believable. She was going for the vulnerable. She may have targeted certain people but they said 'go away, you are suspect.' So she left them alone and went for someone else. Just like when Microsoft rings you up.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

13th January 2020, 02:26 AM	#12
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,143	Originally Posted by rjh01 It just makes it easier for her to do. Changes the event from almost impossible to believable. She was going for the vulnerable. She may have targeted certain people but they said 'go away, you are suspect.' So she left them alone and went for someone else. Just like when Microsoft rings you up. Apparently she also fooled the parents of some of the girls over multiple times. I suggest that folk remember we often see what we expect to see.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

13th January 2020, 07:11 AM	#13
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,186	It's my understanding that female predators operating online are quite rare. I remember the law enforcement people who assisted in the making of "To Catch a Predator" saying that the show only caught male predators because female predators most commonly target victims to whom they already have access.

13th January 2020, 07:12 AM	#14
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,143	Originally Posted by Armitage72 It's my understanding that female predators operating online are quite rare. I remember the law enforcement people who assisted in the making of "To Catch a Predator" saying that the show only caught male predators because female predators most commonly target victims to whom they already have access. I suspect with the changes in culture and society over the last decades we will see this changing.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

13th January 2020, 07:30 AM	#15
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,223	Originally Posted by Darat Apparently she also fooled the parents of some of the girls over multiple times. I suggest that folk remember we often see what we expect to see. Or maybe they suspected, and didn't want to mention anything, in case their daughter was in a consensual relationship with another girl, but not yet ready to come out.
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

13th January 2020, 11:12 AM	#16
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,729	Originally Posted by Darat Apparently she also fooled the parents of some of the girls over multiple times. I suggest that folk remember we often see what we expect to see. If the parents are woke then the concept of "that boy is a girl" is nowhere in their heads. The person visiting their daughter is whatever they say they are. To tell their daughter that the boy isn't actually a boy is a stark demonstration of not being woke.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

14th January 2020, 09:54 AM	#17
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,769	Quote: In her victim impact statement, the teenager said her “heart exploded” when she found out Jake was an adult woman. She said she had loved Jake and thought she could tell him everything. I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

14th January 2020, 09:57 AM	#18
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,186	Originally Posted by Arcade22 I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether. It's probably similar to "no two people have ever loved each other as much as we do", and just as nauseating.

14th January 2020, 11:43 AM	#19
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 8,322	Originally Posted by Arcade22 I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether. Originally Posted by Armitage72 It's probably similar to "no two people have ever loved each other as much as we do", and just as nauseating. Yeah, I know stupid bitch eh!
	__________________

14th January 2020, 12:13 PM	#20
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,769	Originally Posted by bluesjnr Yeah, I know stupid bitch eh! If you say it so, i guess it must be so.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

14th January 2020, 12:31 PM	#21
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,030	Originally Posted by Arcade22 I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether. First of the North Star, baby.
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14th January 2020, 12:36 PM	#22
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by Arcade22 I've heard about hearts breaking, but "heart explosion"? That's on another level altogether. That expression does exist. Here is one example https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...box=1565775467 Quote: “This man, who worked at a refugee camp near Zwolle in the Netherlands, out of the kindness of his own heart bought me a bike. My five-year-old heart exploded with joy,” she said.
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14th January 2020, 12:51 PM	#24
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,729	Originally Posted by Darat How would they have met ~~her~~ him if they weren't awake? I FTFY and please wake up.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

14th January 2020, 01:09 PM	#25
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,769	Originally Posted by William Parcher I FTFY and please wake up. Did we just skip a step or something? Like how did we go from "she was cross-dressing" to "she self-identifies as a man/boy"?
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

14th January 2020, 01:48 PM	#26
Hungry81 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,355	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Did we just skip a step or something? Like how did we go from "she was cross-dressing" to "she self-identifies as a man/boy"? Because the transgender "its true if you really believe it, biology be damned!" argument is his best defense. Plus his girlfriends were in love with a man, and they are not lesbians or bi sexual. Case Closed. If he wants to admit its a scam, or taking a perverse pleasure in fooling cisgender heterosexual girls into lesbian acts, plead guilty, or admit to being a desperate girl who made foolish choices in the search for love, that's a convincing evidence that he's actually a woman. Otherwise who are we to judge a man with a vagina, presumably female breasts and a uterus and ovaries? Its not his fault he was born that way. .
Hungry81 Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,355	Last edited by Hungry81; 14th January 2020 at 01:52 PM.

14th January 2020, 01:58 PM	#27
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,558	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Did we just skip a step or something? Like how did we go from "she was cross-dressing" to "she self-identifies as a man/boy"? He's making yet another poor attempt at edgy humor.

14th January 2020, 02:44 PM	#28
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,143	Originally Posted by William Parcher I FTFY and please wake up. Nope she was a she.
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14th January 2020, 03:40 PM	#29
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,906	Originally Posted by William Parcher If the parents are woke then the concept of "that boy is a girl" is nowhere in their heads. The person visiting their daughter is whatever they say they are. To tell their daughter that the boy isn't actually a boy is a stark demonstration of not being woke. You didn't read my link from from last summer. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=137 Originally Posted by Elagabalus If you haven't already, you should check out the documentary "The Imposter". There's more twists and turns than you can shake a stick at. There's also this famous case in the UK. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...end-having-sex There might be a BBC special up on Youtube about it. She always wore a hoodie* when they would meet up, and even though the two were very good friends (before all this unpleasantness happened) the friend did not recognize her. Bizarre. *just like the dude from yesterday.
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 6,906

14th January 2020, 05:18 PM	#30
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 17,646	So unfortunate part of this discussion has degenerated into the often revisited anti-transgender views of certain posters. I’ll avoid asking why this is such an emotional issue for some, but instead point out that there is already a lengthy thread on this topic. As for this thread: there is no evidence the perp considered themselves a male. Second the gender identity of the perp, cis or trans, does not affect the nature or severity of the crime.

14th January 2020, 05:24 PM	#31
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,279	Originally Posted by dann In this respect, she reminds me of the very stable genius. Except that if she was biologically a male (like the 'very stable genius') we would never have heard about it. Or if we did it would be just be dismissed as 'locker room talk'. Yet another example of the sexism ingrained in our society.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

15th January 2020, 01:14 AM	#32
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 8,322	Originally Posted by Arcade22 If you say it so, i guess it must be so. Just summarising you. I caught your drift.
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15th January 2020, 03:20 AM	#33
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,769	Originally Posted by bluesjnr Just summarising you. I caught your drift. I commented on the expression she used, then you brought up the fact that she was a "stupid bitch" out of nowhere. I'm not sure how inferred that i agreed with your opinion about her being a "stupid bitch" from what i posted, but whatever.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann Last edited by Arcade22; 15th January 2020 at 03:21 AM.

15th January 2020, 06:41 AM	#34
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,186	Originally Posted by Giordano So unfortunate part of this discussion has degenerated into the often revisited anti-transgender views of certain posters. I’ll avoid asking why this is such an emotional issue for some, but instead point out that there is already a lengthy thread on this topic. As for this thread: there is no evidence the perp considered themselves a male. Second the gender identity of the perp, cis or trans, does not affect the nature or severity of the crime. It reminds me of a conversation I saw on another forum years ago. The topic had come up of a female professional wrestler who had started doing adult movies, and someone commented on the genital alterations that she had experienced due to prolonged steroid use, expressing regret about what she had done to herself for her career. Suddenly someone started accusing them of being transphobic, despite the fact that this woman had never identified as transgender or said anything suggesting that she was transgender.

15th January 2020, 07:58 AM	#35
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 8,322	Originally Posted by Arcade22 I commented on the expression she used, then you brought up the fact that she was a "stupid bitch" out of nowhere. I'm not sure how inferred that i agreed with your opinion about her being a "stupid bitch" from what i posted, but whatever. It didn't, you inferred it. Own it.
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15th January 2020, 08:02 AM	#36
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 46,402	The thing is, we are where we are. Anyone questioning the actual sex of someone who looks ambiguous is laying themselves wide open to damaging accusations of transphobia. It's perfectly possible at least some parents thought the woman was a transman, and said nothing because they knew that remarking on a transman's actual sex is considered socially unacceptable.
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