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#2361 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 30,651
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#2362 |
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,468
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As "evidence" goes, you'd be laughed out of court. Both quotes are describing a type, or brand if you will, of "patriotism". Neither is blatantly claiming that patriotism is bad. The latter "evidence" actually specifically mentions "excessive patriotism".
If you think a little social drinking is okay, it's not a contradiction to rail against excessive drinking which can be harmful and even destructive. Excessive patriotism and various forms of flag-waving, including the infamous "My Country, Right or Wrong" are what is being condemned or warned about. Far better you'd have admitted that you were hyperbolizing or straw-manning, 'cuz this doesn't really stack up as evidence. It's what you wish that we were saying. It's the kind of straw man lie that Trump and his minions put out every day. "The Dems want open borders".. "They're coming for mah gunz"... I guess we can add "Liberals hate patriotism". Well done. |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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#2363 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,111
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#2364 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,451
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#2365 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 14,348
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History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell |
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#2366 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,076
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Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
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#2367 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,983
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Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. |
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#2368 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 14,146
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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#2369 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,010
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NBC did get a dismissal just like WP and CNN, as expected. But that wasn't the end. The judge subsequently reinstated the case on a limited basis (meaning some of the complaints remain dismissed but some of them can proceed). That reinstatement happened for WP and CNN previously, and has now happened for NBC as well. So the case is back on.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-nbcuniversal/ Note that the judge has reversed his own decision, he hasn't been overruled on appeal. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#2370 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,687
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There has to be more detail to the law in question than the tiny snipped quoted here :
Quote:
That sounds seriously over-reaching if there aren't some sort of limitations in place. Not saying for this case specifically (FTR I'm coming down on the side of MagaHatBoy, just probably not to the dollar amount they're after). Generally speaking it sounds like Twitter would be a rich field for litigation in that state. |
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#2371 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,010
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#2372 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,926
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a discussion from last January
Link to an older discussion of libel law and the Covington case by a professor of law, Eugene Volokh.
"If the poster refuses to take down the post even then, can the plaintiff argue that keeping the post up is negligent, or does it matter only whether the defendant was negligent when he initially posted? Surprisingly, that is not a well-settled question; the cases are split, and there are good arguments on both sides." Link to a recent post critical of one of the suits. "Basically, it made them look like jerks. And maybe that portrayal was unfair based on incomplete footage. But these lawsuits are a different story; they look like the reactions of children trying to punish those who have called out their bad behavior." As my comments in this thread make clear, I think that the author (also a professor of law) is wrong about the confrontation. She also failed to discuss the poor quality of the early journalism covering the incident. One presumes her legal views are better founded. |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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#2373 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,926
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crying Wolfe
At The Atlantic Caitlin Flanagan wrote, "The full video reveals that these kids had wandered into a Tom Wolfe novel and had no idea how to get out of it." I don't recall reading her article previously, but I thought that this was a very satisfactory one-sentence summary of the incident.
Near the end of her opinion piece she wrote, "How could the elite media—The New York Times, let’s say—have protected themselves from this event, which has served to reinforce millions of Americans’ belief that traditional journalistic outlets are purveyors of “fake news”? They might have hewed to a concept that once went by the quaint term “journalistic ethics.” Among other things, journalistic ethics held that if you didn’t have the reporting to support a story, and if that story had the potential to hurt its subjects, and if those subjects were private citizens, and if they were moreover minors, you didn’t run the story. You kept reporting it; you let yourself get scooped; and you accepted that speed is not the highest value. Otherwise, you were the trash press." EDT I see that portlandatheist already cited this article in a previous comment. |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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#2374 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,388
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Looks like he's starting to get paid:
Quote:
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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#2375 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,010
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#2376 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,145
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lol
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#2377 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,580
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#2378 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
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#2379 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,451
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#2380 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,451
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#2381 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
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#2382 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,451
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Isn't going to college supposed to include meeting lots of great people from different walks of life and politics other than one's own? It's part of a good education. It's like travelling...expanding your world. Or so I always thought. I suppose if one prefers to only meet people just like oneself and with only similar views, one could attend a college with a very limited student body diversity and belief system. But it's interesting that you assume "why else".
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#2383 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 30,651
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__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#2384 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
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#2385 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,451
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#2386 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,709
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#2387 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,451
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#2388 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,276
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The lawyers are slap fighting each other:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/coving...ney?ref=author Nick Sandmann, the most prominent of the MAGA hat kids, hired a real attorney. Other unnamed MAGA kids have enlisted the aid of right-wing internet personality Robert Barnes, best known for his legal work with Infowars. Sandmann's lawyers are threatening to sue Barnes for falsely implying publicly that he is representing Sandmann. It's right wing grifters all the way down! |
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Gobble gobble |
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#2389 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,606
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#2390 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,010
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__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#2391 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 25,589
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All we really know is that CNN and Sandmann reached a settlement. Terms of that settlement, including amounts of money that might have been paid, have not been made public, to my knowledge.
Ex-CNN host 'likely' to be sued over now-deleted 'punchable face' tweet: Sandmann attorney The tweet in question said:
Quote:
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#2392 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,276
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I was more generally commenting on the greater "right wing outrage" machine. Sandmann's lawyers seemed to have had a fairly focused legal strategy and conducted themselves like real lawyers. The details of these settlements aren't public, but it is an indication of some success on their end.
Unfortunately for Sandmann, the right wing griftosphere has taken up the issue. You got Barnes suing everyone on the planet and repeatedly implying that he represents Sandmann, the most public face of this controversy. Bad faith lawsuits, misleading headlines, and other pointless inflammatory nonsense abounds. It sucks to be an honestly aggrieved right wing figure because all the right wing grifters rush in like a shark that smells blood. |
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Gobble gobble |
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#2393 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,926
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Is the punchable face comment defamatory?
I don't see how the punchable face comment falls under defamation. I am not a lawyer, but the comment is opinion.
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__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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#2394 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,388
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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#2395 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,606
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The linked article doesn't say whether it will be a defamation suit. I'm not sure what actual complaint fits best, but I hope there's at least one or two. It seems like there's an obvious incitement-to-violence problem with the tweet, that merits some sort of sanction.
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#2396 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,388
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I would easily say that Trump has lowered that bar by a significant margin. If saying someone has a punchable face is something you can take action on then Trump should be sued 10x over. I'll stand by my statement that this will get thrown out as being covered under the first amendment. He isn't asking anyone to punch the kid, just stating an obvious opinion.
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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#2397 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,558
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According to the Opening Arguments podcast, the original "defamatory" article/video on CNN is still up. If you believe that Sandmann won big in this settlement, you have to believe that he got what he wanted while getting no apology nor any removal of the offensive material. That would be a pretty foolish inconsistency.
In all likelihood, Sandmann's lawyer made an offer slightly less than CNN's attorney fees. |
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#2398 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,010
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I can't find it. The lawsuit claims CNN made defamatory statements in its Jan. 19, 2019 TV coverage of the incident, and its Jan. 19 and Jan 20 online stories titled "Teens in Make America Great Again hats taunted a Native American elder at the Lincoln Memorial" and "Native American man confronted by teens speaks out" respectively. When I search for Sandmann, Covington Catholic, or Nathan Phillips, I get no results for those days. When I search for the article by those titles, I get no results.
Quote:
ETA: The lawsuit provides an HTML link to the initial TV coverage. As you can see if you follow the link, "This video is no longer available". |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#2399 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,388
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Fairly sure the title was changed during an update on the story. This appears to be the original article, and it is still able to be found on CNN. It also lists the correction of Philips to denote the fact he didn't serve in Vietnam, so I'm pretty sure it's the original one. I can look for the other one, but the article dates change with any update.
ETA: I think the link I provided in this post also has the original video. Again, it's URL easily could have changed with updates to the article. That's fairly common. |
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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#2400 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,451
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