Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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Meadmaker said:
Boy who cried wolf.

Sooner or later they'll uncover something actually worth impeaching a president for. If it's your fourth try, your audience (the voters) won't care.
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...all in your opinion, of course.

Many of us have the opinion that the issue lies with "The People Who Refused to Listen to Legitimate Cries of Wolves From the Beginning".
 
Stacyhs said:
Just out of curiosity, if you could do it over again, would you still not vote at all rather than vote for Hillary?
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I don't think that is an answerable question, decisions have to be made in real time, without knowledge of the future. The relevant question would be how I , and people like me, will vote in the next election. I won't vote for Trump, but whether I will vote for the Democratic candidate is an open question, we don't yet know who that will be.
 
Marcus said:
I don't think that is an answerable question, decisions have to be made in real time, without knowledge of the future. The relevant question would be how I , and people like me, will vote in the next election. I won't vote for Trump, but whether I will vote for the Democratic candidate is an open question, we don't yet know who that will be.
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OK...let me put it this way: knowing what you know now, would you vote for Hillary or not vote at all again if you could?
 
Cabbage said:
...all in your opinion, of course.

Many of us have the opinion that the issue lies with "The People Who Refused to Listen to Legitimate Cries of Wolves From the Beginning".
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Knowing who to blame is certainly the most important consideration.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I don't know but I think it's interesting Trump's inability to stop his impulsive behavior led him to jump the gun and now he's used up his ace.

Tee hee hee.:)
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He's been tweeting all that stupid stuff about the Dems supporting the Iraqis, etc. Maybe he will get a notion to bomb the Dems...

Who knows! Logic and common sense don't come into it any more. Trump has long gone completely off-the-planet loopy.
 
Stacyhs said:
OK...let me put it this way: knowing what you know now, would you vote for Hillary or not vote at all again if you could?
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If I knew what I know now, I would know that my vote wouldn't make a difference. However, keeping in the spirit of your question, which is which one I would rather have in office right now, probably Hillary, in spite of her shortcomings.
 
Marcus said:
If I knew what I know now, I would know that my vote wouldn't make a difference. However, keeping in the spirit of your question, which is which one I would rather have in office right now, probably Hillary, in spite of her shortcomings.
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Thanks for your answer.
 
Guiliani's letter is incredibly incriminating for Trump: it completely demolishes the claims that what Rudi was doing in the Ukraine was in the national US interest or aimed at corruption in general. It is clear proof (together with the phone call) that Trump abused his power as President to get a personal favor from the head of a foreign country.
There has never been a clearer case for Impeachment.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
An overview of Maddow's Parnas interview
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That is one heck of a bombshell interview.

In it, he completely confirms everything that everyone already knew, except for the new revelations about surveillance of Yovanovich which, had they been true, would have actually been important.



To be fair, his statements show the depth of the obsession that Trump had with the investigation of Biden, and his willingness to entangle US foreign policy with his political interests. That won't look good, and might even lose him a percent or two of votes. I know that when the story first broke months ago, I thought it was just Trump shooting off his mouth. As time has gone by, it has become clear that it was a lot more than that. After learning how deeply entangled his pursuit of Biden was with holding up aid to Ukraine, there's no way I would vote for that guy. Oh, wait......there was already no way I was going to vote for him.

And that's where we still are. The people who already hated Trump will have more confirmation that they were right to hate Trump, but if you think that the newest revelations will actually cause people to start pressuring their senators to remove Trump from office, you aren't living in reality.

It's possible it might hurt his poll numbers and shift some votes in November, a little.

ETA: But it's also possible that the backlash against impeachment obsession will help him in November.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Boy who cried wolf.

Sooner or later they'll uncover something actually worth impeaching a president for. If it's your fourth try, your audience (the voters) won't care.
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Okay seriously it's goddamn terrifying the number of people who read the Boy Who Cried Wolf story and somehow came away with the moral of the storing being that the sheep deserved to get eaten by the wolf to teach the boy a lesson or that the sheep being eaten was a good outcome.

"The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is not a story about letting disasters happen just to get back at the people who were overly dramatic about it. It's not a pro-trolling parable.

Or look at it this way. In your version of the story instead of the villagers refusing to go check on the flock of the sheep when the wolves are eating them after the boy has "Cried Wolf" about it 3 or 4 times they do go check, see the wolves eating the ship, but look at the boy and go "You know what? Just to punish you for crying wolf all those times, we're all gonna sit here and watch the sheep get eaten to to spite you."

And that's insane.
 
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The Greater Fool said:
It's not "The boy who cried wolf" when there are actually wolves each time the boy cries wolf.
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"The wolves have been eating the sheep every night for the past week but we're gonna let the flock all die because the boy guarding them... well he was a little dramatic about it a couple of times."

Also in this version the villagers who won't listen to the boy and the wolves are the same people.
 
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Meadmaker said:
That is one heck of a bombshell interview.

In it, he completely confirms everything that everyone already knew, except for the new revelations about surveillance of Yovanovich which, had they been true, would have actually been important.



To be fair, his statements show the depth of the obsession that Trump had with the investigation of Biden, and his willingness to entangle US foreign policy with his political interests. That won't look good, and might even lose him a percent or two of votes. I know that when the story first broke months ago, I thought it was just Trump shooting off his mouth. As time has gone by, it has become clear that it was a lot more than that. After learning how deeply entangled his pursuit of Biden was with holding up aid to Ukraine, there's no way I would vote for that guy. Oh, wait......there was already no way I was going to vote for him.

And that's where we still are. The people who already hated Trump will have more confirmation that they were right to hate Trump, but if you think that the newest revelations will actually cause people to start pressuring their senators to remove Trump from office, you aren't living in reality.

It's possible it might hurt his poll numbers and shift some votes in November, a little.

ETA: But it's also possible that the backlash against impeachment obsession will help him in November.
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You have to be an absolute blast at parties.

The surveillance is the disturbing part. Have you read the messages? Do you think that maybe some women might be more effected than men? Maybe some that have been stalked, and had their lives threatened. That is some seriously scary **** that came out in those messages that we've never heard before.

I get your whole "I have to be a voice of reason" schtick here, but that is a massive handwave in your whole rant. It also ties that Hyde turd to Trump.

ETA: Wait, am I missing something? Are the messages not true? Did someone make them up?

ETA ETA: Ok, I apologize for missing it. I now see that Parnas is saying that he doesn't think it's real, and he thinks he was drunk. It'll be interesting to see a follow up on that.
 
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If it's one thing I certainly can say after catching up this morning, it's that this Parnas fellow certainly seems to have some issues with the truth. Trump seems to be able to find people like that without a problem.
 
plague311 said:
If it's one thing I certainly can say after catching up this morning, it's that this Parnas fellow certainly seems to have some issues with the truth. Trump seems to be able to find people like that without a problem.
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Trump drains swamps specifically to find creatures that will serve him.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"The wolves have been eating the sheep every night for the past week but we're gonna let the flock all die because the boy guarding them... well he was a little dramatic about it a couple of times."

Also in this version the villagers who won't listen to the boy and the wolves are the same people.
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Lots of people are saying he said one of the villagers was deplorable, now I don't know that but they are saying that. And that's terrible.
 
plague311 said:
Sounds like a bit of a governmental slap fest. It does lay out a pretty clear case of breaking the law.

Despite the pessimism, I see this as getting harder and harder to defend. This has to be getting old for some of the Republicans. Having to answer to this presidents repeated issues of staying within the law.

Has anything like this ever happened before?
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Impoundment is the term to describe when a president doesn't spend money allocated by Congress. And for most of the history of the US it was perfectly legal to do so.

Although this case isn't actually impoundment. The money was spent, just not on the schedule demanded by the legislation. The government isn't supposed to do that, but to be honest, that's really not particularly unique. You can find cases in every administration where the government didn't follow the law as written. Sometimes those failures are trivial, sometimes not so much, but it's not exactly new territory.
 
Upchurch said:
Trump was extorting Ukraine to announce that it was investigating Biden's son for corruption. Now, Ukraine has announced that it is investigating Trump for corruption.

Trolling. Irony. It's a lot of things.
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I understand the irony part. I don't get why it's trolling.
 
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