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Tags 2020 elections , Bernie Sanders , presidential candidates , socialism

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Old 13th February 2020, 04:34 PM   #1
Hercules56
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Should we fear Bernie?

Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:40 PM   #2
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So we can put you down for a "yes"?
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
Garbage in, Garbage out. Most countries in western Europe are Socialist Democracies, and are doing just fine. And are freer and more democratic than the USA.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:42 PM   #4
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Bernie isn't a member of the DSA. He was endorsed by them, just like Kerry and Obama.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:42 PM   #5
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
So we can put you down for a "yes"?
I'm concerned.

Bernie refuses to say he would support simply fixing Capitalism. I need him to abandon anything related to "socialism".

And there are definitely some Bernie-Bros who would indeed want reeducation camps, gulags, suspension of the 1st Amendment, in order to maintain power and control.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:44 PM   #6
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Bernie isn't a member of the DSA. He was endorsed by them, just like Kerry and Obama.
Actually he appears to be a member of the DSA. He has spoken at their conventions again and again, and applauds and supports their agenda.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
You don't really understand the limitations of the US presidency, do you?
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:46 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Actually he appears to be a member of the DSA.
He's not.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You don't really understand the limitations of the US presidency, do you?
Unless we're talking about Trump and then of course, he's a dictator.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:11 PM   #10
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That's right. There's no room between our current right-wing austerity hellworld and authoritarian communism.

Unionized minorities are currently building guillotines in state owned factories just for Bernie.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
I suggest that you have Socialism and Communism confused. Try looking at the top 10 countries on these lists and compare your fears with their Socialistic policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...ceptions_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index


ETA: For those that can't be bothered looking at the links...

Five countries make all three lists as being in the Top Ten (11 for freedom since the last two have the same score) them being:

Norway
Sweden
New Zealand
Finland
Denmark

Six Countries make two of the Ten Ten for the lists, being:

Ireland
Canada
Australia
Switzerland
The Netherlands
Luxembourg

And four make it into the Top Ten on one list:

Iceland
Singapore
Germany
Uruguay

I'm pretty sure that despite their Socialistic policies, that none of these countries is a Communist hellhole.

ETA2: just for fun here is another list ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index just cause adding this one makes New Zealand the only country to appear in the top ten of all the lists.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 13th February 2020 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:18 PM   #12
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Is the OP parody?
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
.....
Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.
.....
This is absolutely ridiculous and I think you know it. Sanders is what used to be called a mainstream Democrat. Public colleges used to be cheap, sometimes free; even R. Nixon supported a universal health insurance plan. Sanders has never promoted or even talked about nationalizing industries, although he certainly supports tougher regulation of industries (particularly finance and energy) that have benefited by shifting their costs onto the public while reaping profits for themselves. What exactly are you ranting about?
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:21 PM   #14
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You don't really understand the limitations of the US presidency, do you?
I understand that Bush, and Obama, and Trump have shown us that the President can do anything he wants as long as powerful people are willing to go along with it.

But yes, it does relieve some of my anxiety knowing that much of Bernie's agenda would never pass Congress.

I'm just worried about Executive Orders he might decide to issue, such as pardoning all Federal prisoners convicted of non-violent felonies, or declaring all illegal immigrants "legal", or disbanning ICE and CBP, who the hell knows what he might try to do.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I'm concerned.
Yeah, I got that impression. I think it was when you were talking about gulags and re-education camps.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:25 PM   #16
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's right. There's no room between our current right-wing austerity hellworld and authoritarian communism.

Unionized minorities are currently building guillotines in state owned factories just for Bernie.
Did you see the video of the Bernie campaign organizer in Iowa who called for gulags and reeducation camps?
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:27 PM   #17
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I'm having flashbacks to when people were terrified of that black Kenyan muslim who won the election some years ago.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:30 PM   #18
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I suggest that you have Socialism and Communism confused. Try looking at the top 10 countries on these lists and compare your fears with their Socialistic policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...ceptions_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
Haha.

None of the countries in any of these top ten lists are "Socialist".

They are regulated Capitalist economies with a strong social safety net.

Its funny how so many people get "social democracy" confused with Socialism.

Unless a nation has nationalized all major means of production and engines of industry and commerce, factories & banks etc, they are NOT Socialist.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:33 PM   #19
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Bernie personally no;
But that he will probably lose in November to Trump: yes.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I'm having flashbacks to when people were terrified of that black Kenyan muslim who won the election some years ago.
Obama's policies were not as far to the left as Bernies.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Obama's policies were not as far to the left as Bernies.
?

I wasn't talking about his policies, I'm talking about the raving paranoia in the OP? Or are you trying to say the paranoia is less irrational this time around?
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:36 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Haha.

None of the countries in any of these top ten lists are "Socialist".

They are regulated Capitalist economies with a strong social safety net.

Its funny how so many people get "social democracy" confused with Socialism.

Unless a nation has nationalized all major means of production and engines of industry and commerce, factories & banks etc, they are NOT Socialist.
And yet in any of those countries, Bernie would be considered a moderate centre left candidate.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:37 PM   #23
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I'm having flashbacks to when people were terrified of that black Kenyan muslim who won the election some years ago.
Obama didn't threaten to increase the yearly budget by 3 trillion dollars or release hundreds of thousands of prisoners from Federal jails.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:37 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Haha.

None of the countries in any of these top ten lists are "Socialist".

They are regulated Capitalist economies with a strong social safety net.

Its funny how so many people get "social democracy" confused with Socialism.
Yeah, just look at the OP in this thread.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Haha.

None of the countries in any of these top ten lists are "Socialist".

They are regulated Capitalist economies with a strong social safety net.

Its funny how so many people get "social democracy" confused with Socialism.

Unless a nation has nationalized all major means of production and engines of industry and commerce, factories & banks etc, they are NOT Socialist.
Yup, Bernie isn't a socialist.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:40 PM   #26
Hercules56
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Yeah, just look at the OP in this thread.
Let us know when Bernie abandons democratic socialism and becomes a supporter of Social Democracy.

Cuz until he does, I trust that he's a Socialist.

His supporters DEFINITELY are.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:42 PM   #27
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Relax.

Controlling the means of production is something Bernie Sanders explicitly says he's not for.

Gulags, Berlin wall, Khmer Rouge involved various manifestations of Marxism. That's just not what's going on here.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:45 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Relax.

Controlling the means of production is something Bernie Sanders explicitly says he's not for.

Gulags, Berlin wall, Khmer Rouge involved various manifestations of Marxism Stalinism. That's just not what's going on here.
FTFY
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:46 PM   #29
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Bernie Sanders routinely speaks at the DSA yearly convention and regularly applauds and supports their agenda.

That agenda includes:

-the end of all national borders.
-the end of ICE and CBP.
-the destruction of Capitalism.
-state ownership of large industries
-legalized prostitution
-reperations for slavery


when is Bernie going to denounce this ridiculous platform?

Last edited by Hercules56; 13th February 2020 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:54 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Bernie Sanders routinely speaks at the DSA yearly convention and regularly applauds and supports their agenda.

That agenda includes:

-the end of all national borders.
-the end of ICE and CBP.
-the destruction of Capitalism.
-state ownership of large industries
-legalized prostitution
-reperations for slavery


when it Bernie going to denounce this ridiculous platform?
* the end of all national borders.

Not going to happen even if he wanted it cause Canada and Mexico won't agree.

* the end of ICE and CBP.

A lot of people want ICE gone, they are a solution looking for a problem and causing more issues than they solve. Customs and Border Patrol aren't going anywhere.

* the destruction of Capitalism.

Is not going to happen even under Bernie. Regulated Capitalism might, but then that is a good idea, not a bad one. Unregulated Capitalism is blight that is highly destructive.

* state ownership of large industries

Nationalization isn't going to occur.

* legalized prostitution

Which is a problem how? We've had legalised Prostitution for 17 years now and the country hasn't exploded into fiery shards of lava.

* reperations for slavery

Which is bad how? Slavery was kinda abhorrent, and the US political systems have been working to continue the oppression of blacks ever since Lincoln announced emancipation. Why is paying reparations for that treatment so bad?
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:59 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
?

I wasn't talking about his policies, I'm talking about the raving paranoia in the OP? Or are you trying to say the paranoia is less irrational this time around?
Nope <snip>. But I also think Bernie is unelectable.
Medicare For All alone is enough to doom him. SOme form of UHC yes, but not one that will basically take away many people's coverage and replace it with something no one is sure of what it will look like.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited for Rules 0/12.
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Last edited by Loss Leader; 13th February 2020 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:01 PM   #32
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I'm thinking the stock market will crash if Bernie is elected POTUS, and we'll enter a recession immediately, or maybe even a depression.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:12 PM   #33
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I haven't been all that fond of Bernie in the past, but I find I am really enjoying how his front-runner status is making all the conservatives lose their collective **** at the possibility of him in charge.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:26 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
I'm thinking the stock market will crash if Bernie is elected POTUS, and we'll enter a recession immediately, or maybe even a depression.
Bernie wins the nomination and we could see a quick Bear Market.

Bernie wins the election? Dow could go all the way back to pre-Trump levels.

But Bernie-Bros will say that would be fine since the stock selling corporations didn't share their wealth.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:31 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post

* reperations for slavery

Which is bad how? Slavery was kinda abhorrent, and the US political systems have been working to continue the oppression of blacks ever since Lincoln announced emancipation. Why is paying reparations for that treatment so bad?
We had a ******* civil war and lost hundreds of thousands of Americans, all over the issue of slavery.

Slavery ended 155 years ago and the idea we should now pay reparations to the great-great-great grandchildren of slaves is absurd and will do NOTHING but stoke racial animosity and tensions.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:42 PM   #36
Trebuchet
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Meanwhile, that raving Socialist Donald J Trump vows to protect Social Security and Medicare and the original poster says nothing!

Both of those were decried as socialism by Trump's part when proposed.

Dumbest thread ever. Just about.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:07 PM   #37
angrysoba
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OP, you may be in need of the ISF lounge fainting couch if it is not already being used by the “Usurper Trump” guy or the misanthrope of the mountains.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:13 PM   #38
sackett
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Rave on, Herc. Your tiny voice is unheard in the Grand Socialist Hurricane now a-building. Soon, long before any piteous "election," the comrades -- MY comrades, capitalist stooge! -- will march! On Washington, on New York, on Chicago and Los Angeles and Ft. Wayne, on all the rotten bastions the bosses think will save them! Then you will be forced to pay the Comrade Street Sisters for sex! Then the CEOs and CFOs will clean Comrade Bernie's commode! (He likes his burritos, too! Oh, they -- and maybe you -- will learn the true meaning of Share the Wealth!) Wah! Up the red star!

And so on. Buy me a litre of wine and I can keep this up til Morgenschein.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:14 PM   #39
angrysoba
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Of course, I won’t be laughing when Comrade Bernie opens the salt-mines for anyone who won’t wear Stalin lapel pins.
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:18 PM   #40
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Garbage in, Garbage out. Most countries in western Europe are Socialist Democracies, and are doing just fine. And are freer and more democratic than the USA.
Those are white countries.
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