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#1041 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 69,607
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Insufficiently, because as I said, we are specifically talking about an entity that is proposed to be outside the container. Your container is a complete red herring.
You have failed to understand what I wrote. Let me think for a bit and I'll see if I can come up with a way of saying it that you will find easier to understand. |
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Please scream inside your heart. |
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#1042 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1043 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,096
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And even if you think it is an interesting question you still have to support your "could" claim to start with i. E. That such a pgod could exist. All psionio has been doing is writing a sentence such as "the starship accelerated to 5 times the speed of light" or "I could draw a square circle". It is not us that needs to support the claim they make, if they want us to consider their claim they need to demonstrate that pgod could exist. Especially since pgod is not a god any religion claims exists.
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#1044 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1045 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,096
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#1046 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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No I'm not.
You are just clinging on to this ridiculous argument that nobody believes in a god that can create the universe and nobody believes in an invisible god because you have posted it so many times. You invented "pgod" in an attempt to make your nonsense sound more credible but you are only impressing the peanut gallery. |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1047 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,206
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Nope, you invented pgod, a god which could exist, a god to which no religion adheres and whose properties you claim to know are possible somehow.
Everyone else is asking how it is that you know such an entity is possible. You merely attempt to reverse the burden of proof by bleating "Prove your claim that such a god is impossible." Despite the fact that it is your affirmative claim that it is possible. So... Is such a pgod possible? I don't know. What I do know is that only you claim such a possibility. Nobody else, not even deists. You confidently describe it's properties, challenge everyone to prove it doesn't exist and promptly deny having described it's properties. In the end, your argument has the hallmarks of Sye Ten Bruggencate all over it. |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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#1048 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1049 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,993
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Yes we do all know you didn’t actually propose it exists. Just that it can’t be ruled out.
Also a few people seem to think you have one of those outside of the universe not interacting gods, when in fact you have one of the sneaky intervening but undetectable whenever they want to be undetectable types. Perfectly compatible with many casual believers’ gods. |
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#1050 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,937
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Psion what part of you "No... but maybe God" do you think people don't understand?
Your argument being wrong is not dependent on you saying there is a God. You're "But we can't rule it out" is enough. That's what you're saying and that's what people are arguing against. We know what your argument is, it's just wrong. "But I'm not saying there's a God" is not the defense you think it is. |
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#1051 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,937
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By the way the hijack while the apologists sits there in a huff, convinced they've won the argument because they claimed they are being "strawmanned" into a theist is also in the script. It's old.
"Okay but maybe God" is a bad argument, whether coming from a theist or an apologist. So we can drop this new Jabbian sidetrack and move on to the next one. |
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#1052 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,096
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#1053 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,937
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Again there's a reason that in the "Dragon in my Garage" metaphor I don't start out with the claim that there's an invisible, floating, mute, undetectable dragon in my garage, I simply say "dragon."
That's so I can refine the special pleading as new ways to detect my dragon and confirm or not confirm it's existence are proposed. Psion's "Vague maybe God" is the same thing. It doesn't start with any qualities, it only has them added to explain why we can't determine if it's there or not. There's a term for that. A special term. A pleading term. It's a God. But not that God. No not that one either. Oh and it started the universe and then left. And it only exists outside the universe. On Thursdays. Between 5:00 and 5:05 in the morning. If the moon is full. And a Pacific Team won the Stanley Cup last year. And the tides are in. And the sparrows are in Capistrano. Nobody, not even I suspect the people making it, are really not getting what this is. "What is the minimum amount of God you will accept?" Again I spent a decade of my adult life listening to Jabba grovel and beg for someone to tell him how much he would have to water down immorality before someone would accept it as a possibility. This is not a new tactic. Well here's my answer. Given the evidence, zero. |
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#1054 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,096
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Nope. You claim pgod could exist, it is up to you to prove it could exist. If you can't prove your could then all you are reduced to is fantasy, it becomes exactly the same as someone saying "the starship could accelerate to 5 times the speed of light" and then saying it is up to everyone else to prove it couldn't. Your could has to to come before our couldn't. |
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#1055 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1056 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1057 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1058 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,956
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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#1059 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,937
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Okay. And?
Stop jumping back and forth on the fence. If God's invisible why even consider the question of if he's there or not in the first place? Again why are we asking the question? I'd like an answer please. I've asked multiple times. We're both sitting there, you point in at an empty corner of the room and go "Hey. Do you think there's an invisible God we can't see there?" I'm perfectly right in asking you why you are even asking the question. |
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#1060 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The great American southeast
Posts: 8,859
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If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else. |
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#1061 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,388
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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#1062 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1063 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,121
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#1064 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,121
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#1065 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,096
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#1066 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 96,096
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#1067 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1068 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,852
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Paranormal/supernatural beliefs are knowledge placebos. Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. Make beliefs truths and you get make-believe truths. |
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#1069 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 6,524
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I know this is a derail from the "psion versus all comers" thread but thanks for your input Cainkane. Yes the silliness really rears its head, when we talk of a god who loves and cares for everyone, but no evidence for this is found. We even have a god who seemingly smites people, (that is if you accept he has control over the weather), when they are worshiping him. As churches are often struck by lightening. |
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Thinking is a faith hazard. |
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#1070 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 6,524
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Thinking is a faith hazard. |
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#1071 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,852
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Paranormal/supernatural beliefs are knowledge placebos. Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. Make beliefs truths and you get make-believe truths. |
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#1072 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 6,524
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Thinking is a faith hazard. |
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#1073 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,852
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Paranormal/supernatural beliefs are knowledge placebos. Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. Make beliefs truths and you get make-believe truths. |
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#1074 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,937
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Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." |
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#1075 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adirondacks, NY - with Magrat!
Posts: 8,516
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And given that the Christian God is known as "our Father", he is at best an absentee father. Or worse - just recall what he did to his son!
Therefore, he should have been paying child support to everybody, for the time when they were children! I demand that my payment be sent NOW!!! Including interest! |
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I used to think I was happy. then I met Magrat... |
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#1076 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,956
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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#1077 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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Would you ask me what I truly believe if we were discussing magnetic monopoles?
Why is attempting to explore the concept of a deity from a scientific POV so different? Why must we never question whether random forces really exist? Why is the idea that matter/energy or the laws of physics are eternal such a sacrosanct concept? |
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1078 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,206
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Yep.
From a science perspective, no. We can quite happily explore such a question. I have no clue why you seem to think this is verbotten. Because they have never been demonstrated to exist. It isn't. I have no clue what led you to that nonsense. |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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#1079 |
Skeptical about skeptics
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 16,864
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"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975 |
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#1080 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,206
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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