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Tags misogyny , rape culture , sex scandals , sexuality issues

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Old 17th July 2019, 06:34 AM   #361
Roboramma
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Here's one possible factor that I only heard about recently:

Traumatic brain injury: a potential cause of violent crime?
Quote:
TBI appears to be associated with earlier age of incarceration, increased risk of violence, and more convictions. Neurological abnormalities are common in offenders. Brain functions, in areas important for social functioning, such as impulse control and empathy, appear compromised. In those in custody, complicated mild TBI or moderate to severe head injury is prevalent in one to two in ten people, and another three or four in ten could have a milder form of TBI. Neuropsychological dysfunction is linked to violence, infractions in prison, poorer treatment gains, and reconviction. Life histories of abuse, neglect, and trauma appear particularly elevated in those with TBI versus those without TBI histories, as are ongoing mental health and drug and alcohol problems. Young offenders with TBI are particularly at risk of self-harm and suicidal behaviour. TBI could amplify any neurocognitive issues due to adverse life events. People with TBIs are incarcerated at high cost in facilities that might not be well placed to address their needs. There has been an assumption that TBI was just a coincidental occurrence in the lives of risk takers: people who were premorbidly set to be on a trajectory towards crime. But as we have shown in this review, the research evidence suggests otherwise. Addressing TBI offers a means not only to improve the lives of those who offend, but also, crucially, to reduce crime.
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Old 17th July 2019, 07:42 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
In order to avoid derailing the Kevin-Spacey thread, I'm starting a new one devoted to this question.
What makes some people want to take money from unwilling donors?

ETA: Possibly a lack of empathy/morality.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:34 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I guess that it won't be difficult to anticipate theprestige's comment:





















Yes, I do have something to add. More research about rapists, as you can see in post 359.
Jesus Christ. You're still riding this hobby horse?

No thanks. I got off the merry-go-round half a year ago. I have no desire to get back on. You want to keep going around in circles, you're on your own. Enjoy the calliope.
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Old 17th July 2019, 10:46 AM   #364
dann
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Here's one possible factor that I only heard about recently:

Traumatic brain injury: a potential cause of violent crime?

The classical example of a personality-changing brain injury is Phineas Gage - even though some of his personality changes may have been exaggerated by his contemporaries as well as ours. I have met at least one person whose personality had changed due to brain injury - and not as brain injury as dramatic as Phineas Gage's. That person had many traits in common with psychopaths but completely lacked the glibness that is usually ascribed to psychopaths.
It probably doesn't matter much what caused the lack of empathy in the first place.
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Old 17th July 2019, 10:55 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Jesus Christ. You're still riding this hobby horse?

No thanks. I got off the merry-go-round half a year ago. I have no desire to get back on. You want to keep going around in circles, you're on your own. Enjoy the calliope.

I already know that you don't like objections to the idea that coerced sex is a natural occurrence and that the motivation of rapists is therefore irrelevant. However, it doesn't seem to be true that you "got off the merry-go-round half a year ago."

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Did you see her interview on CNN where she said she wouldn't call it rape, and said that she thinks most women find the idea of rape sexy?

Unfortunately, my criticism of your post was removed to AAH so I can't repeat it here.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th July 2019, 11:14 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What makes some people want to take money from unwilling donors?

ETA: Possibly a lack of empathy/morality.

Yes, psychopathy/sociopathy seems to be the common trait of the great majority of rapists:

Quote:
“They will steal your car, they will steal your watch, and they will steal sex, so to speak, if they can get away with it,” says Neil Malamuth, a psychologist at UCLA.
Post 359

A well-known serial rapist and murderer in Denmark, Amagermanden, fits the description from the article in The Atlantic:
"the great majority of rapists are generalists, or “one-man crime waves.”"
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th July 2019, 01:06 PM   #367
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Last year Sweden's legislation introduced the concept negligent rape, which means that a rapist can no longer use it as an excuse if his (or her) victim 'freezes' and therefore does not explicitly decline to have sex:

Quote:
One of these sentences was confirmed by Sweden's Supreme Court on Sunday, marking the first time the country's highest criminal court made a judgment relating to negligent rape.
The 27-year-old male plaintiff was found guilty of the negligent rape of a woman while staying overnight at her home.
The woman said had agreed he could stay overnight, but made it clear she did not want to have sex. Despite that, the man initiated sexual intercourse.
Both the perpetrator and the plaintiff said that she was passive throughout the intercourse, and that they did not speak. The plaintiff said she "froze and did not know how to act", while the perpetrator said he was not sure whether she was awake when he first initiated sexual contact, "but [he] had the impression that she wanted to have sex" and continued because she did not tell him not to. He also said that he stopped the intercourse when he thought she didn't want to continue.
'Negligent rape': Has Sweden's sexual consent law led to change? (TheLocal.se, July 12, 2019)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th July 2019, 11:01 PM   #368
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Based on the thread, dann, I'm still not clear on if you have an answer to the question in the thread title, but it seems like you have some idea of one anyway. Specifically, I'm reading you as thinking that the answer is that "some people are sociopaths, and some of those people become rapists."

Is that approximately your answer, and if so are you looking for something deeper than that (for instance, why do some people become sociopaths, or, why do sociopaths become rapists?), or is the question basically answered to your satisfaction?
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Old 17th July 2019, 11:04 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It probably doesn't matter much what caused the lack of empathy in the first place.
It depends on what you mean by that. Matters to what? The paper I quoted suggests that if it's correct that TBI is a major factor in violent crime, then addressing the causes of TBI, or potentially offering better treatment for TBI, could help to lower violent crime rates. Presumably, though it's not clear that this is certain, rape would be included in that.
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Old 18th July 2019, 02:27 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Based on the thread, dann, I'm still not clear on if you have an answer to the question in the thread title, but it seems like you have some idea of one anyway. Specifically, I'm reading you as thinking that the answer is that "some people are sociopaths, and some of those people become rapists."

Is that approximately your answer, and if so are you looking for something deeper than that (for instance, why do some people become sociopaths, or, why do sociopaths become rapists?), or is the question basically answered to your satisfaction?

I think I have three answers for three different groups of people who "want to have sex with unwilling 'partners'":
1) The vast majority of actual rapists who are responsible for an even larger percentage of rapes since they also tend to be serial rapists.
2) The (probably very small) minority of rapists who have empathy but just aren't very good at it, i.e. people who may not be properly able to read other people's emotions; specifically in the case of rape, who misinterpret the signals that should tell them that their victims don't want to have sex with them. But, in a way, they don't fit the title of this thread since they don't want to have sex with unwilling partners. They might be the awkward or unlucky perpetrators that this counsellor is talking about:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

3) People who are into rapist fantasies only and wouldn't want to actually rape anybody. (I was about to write, "wouldn't dream of raping anybody," but that would be too ambiguous. )

I'll sum up my thoughts about 1) and 2) when I have a little more time.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 18th July 2019, 02:45 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
It depends on what you mean by that. Matters to what? The paper I quoted suggests that if it's correct that TBI is a major factor in violent crime, then addressing the causes of TBI, or potentially offering better treatment for TBI, could help to lower violent crime rates. Presumably, though it's not clear that this is certain, rape would be included in that.

Explanation-wise: If you are a sociopath, a psychopath or the victim of TBI, you rape because you don't have empathy. You see no reason not to rape.
Treatment-wise or therapy-wise, it's a different question, of course.
Neuroscientist James Fallon is a famous example. Colleagues and acquaintances describe him as callous (and he doesn't disagree: He has several good examples of his own callous behaviour). He seems to be biologically disposed to become a full-blown psychopath and gives his upbringing the credit for not turning into one. So it's not unlikely that parents could do something to make it less likely that their TBI children (or children who are genetically disposed to become psychopaths) don't turn into actual psychopaths.
But I think that therapy for psychopaths today usually focusses on the unpleasant outcomes for the psychopaths themselves: If they rape, for instance, they run the risk of spending most of their life in jail.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 18th July 2019, 03:57 AM   #372
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This study backs up what the article in The Atlantic says about rapists: Repeat Rape and Multiple Offending among Undetected Rapists (Violence and Victims, Vol. 17, No.1, 2002)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st January 2020, 02:13 AM   #373
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Quote:
Dr. Robert Prentky, a professor at Boston University Medical School, divides rapists into four types.
There’s the ‘opportunist’ who rapes impulsively, without premeditation. 23% of convicted rapists fall into this category, which is most emblematic of date rapists. Men who try to act out sexual fantasies, on the other hand, are driven by a conflicting narrative in which they expect women to fall in love with them after forcing them to have sex. “These men are often arrested because they try to make a date to see their victim again, and will name a time and place to meet,” Dr. Prentky said to the New York Times in 1991.
There are the ‘women haters’, who assault with the intent to humiliate women. They make up 32% of the convicted rapists sample, which needs to be taken with a grain of salt as prisoners are generally more skewed towards violence. There are the misanthropists, who are angry at men and women alike, and are looking to take out their frustration on the world at large. And lastly, there are sadists, who try to reenact their sadistic fantasies via rape. “For the sadist, the victim’s fear is a sexual stimulus,” Dr. Prentky said.
Neil Malamuth, a psychologist at the University of California, noticed during his research that repeat offenders tend to believe they have been wronged by women, telling stories of rejection in high school, with jocks being favored over them.
Why Men Rape: A Complicated Portrait of Rapists’ Minds (Medium, Sep. 24, 2019)
The highlighted sentence seems to describe the attitude of many incels!

Characteristics of Male Perpetrators Who Sexually Assault Female Victims (From A Review of the Literature on Sexual Assault Perpetrator Characteristics and Behaviors, 2015, JSTOR.org)

I find this list of "rape warning signs" very interesting:
Quote:
Here are some of the things she identified as examples of "pre-rape" cues.
Sexual entitlement
(…)
Unwanted touching
(…)
Persistence
(…)
Isolation
Sexual Assault Expert Outlines Rape Warning Signs (Independent, Oct. 24, 2017)
The latter, isoloation, is particularly interesting if you consider the idea of situational callousness proposed by xjx388:
Quote:
Isolation
Just as it's important to consider behaviour when it comes to "pre-rape" warning signs, environment and circumstance are also key factors.
Usually, the greatest risk of sexual assault occurs when behavioural and situational cues collide, she explained.
A typical situational cue is that of isolation i.e. a man whom one already deems as potentially at risk of sexual perpetration has taken extra measures to ensure that he is completely alone with a woman.
I find the wording weird, however: A man who takes “extra measures to ensure that he is completely alone with a woman” is not “at risk (!!!) of sexual perpetration;” he is carefully planning it! The 'situations' didn't just happen, and his callousness wasn't caused by the situation. On the contrary, a callous person created that situation deliberately!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 22nd January 2020, 04:08 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I find the wording weird, however: A man who takes “extra measures to ensure that he is completely alone with a woman” is not “at risk (!!!) of sexual perpetration;” he is carefully planning it! The 'situations' didn't just happen, and his callousness wasn't caused by the situation. On the contrary, a callous person created that situation deliberately!
You're not wrong; but I think you're misinterpreting. Notice the two phrases you quote, as they originally appear, are in opposite order. The definition acknowledges that it is the behavior of a man that an observer "already deems as at-risk" that is being discussed. If the guy whose other behaviors are already making you suspicious starts very obviously trying to create a situation in which he is alone with a woman, that's the tip-off that he is, as you say, actively planning an assault.
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Old 24th January 2020, 10:11 AM   #375
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I still find the wording weird, but it's probably a language thing: We have very similar words for chance: chance (noun) and risk: risiko (noun), risikere (vb.) in Danish, but unlike English, chance is always positive and risk is always negative: There's a chance you might win, but there's a risk you might lose.
From the point of view of the rapist, that would mean that there's a chance he might succeed in raping somebody tonight, but from the point of view of the victim, there's a risk that she'll get raped.
I think that German is similar to Danish in this respect: Chance (noun), Risiko (noun), riskieren (vb.). We couldn't say that the perpetrator is a risk of raping (using those words), but we could say that he's a risk of getting caught by the police.
So it probably just sounds weird to me as a foreigner in spite of my knowledge of English.

ETA: We could never use the word chance in the sentence, "There's a chance of rain tomorrow," I we were planning to go to the beach. We would have to use the word risiko/risk. We could use the word chance in that sentence only if we were farmers looking forward to water for our crops.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 24th January 2020, 06:50 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Explanation-wise: If you are a sociopath, a psychopath or the victim of TBI, you rape because you don't have empathy.
But I think that therapy for psychopaths today usually focusses on the unpleasant outcomes for the psychopaths themselves: If they rape, for instance, they run the risk of spending most of their life in jail.
Fortunately, the US Department of Justice keeps statistics on these crimes so we can breakdown the demographics and see who is over represented. The data are very interesting. Now that's a hyperlink people would be interested in clicking. (Table 43A is of particular interest)
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Old 26th January 2020, 09:28 AM   #377
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What is the cause of your glee that certain groups are "over represented"?
What makes that data interesting to you?
Does it say anything about the reason why it is so?
Why didn't you include the hyperlink you refer to?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th January 2020, 02:03 PM   #378
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You are misinterpreting me as I did not experience any "glee." The data are interesting because we have a better phenotypical understanding of who these "psychopaths" and "sociopaths" are (according to dann.) I do not have a reason for why this is so as I'm not a geneticist or neuroscientist so I will leave that question to them. I did not provide the hyperlink because I had figured you like finding and sharing hyperlinks with us so I left that to you.
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Old 26th January 2020, 02:30 PM   #379
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Don't worry, it's just Baylor's made-up 'everything bad is done by blacks' graph, don't waste your time.
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Old 26th January 2020, 02:32 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Don't worry, it's just Baylor's made-up 'everything bad is done by blacks' graph, don't waste your time.
FBI crime statistics are not "made up." Not sure what's become of this place.
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Old 29th January 2020, 06:40 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Don't worry, it's just Baylor's made-up 'everything bad is done by blacks' graph, don't waste your time.

I'm aware of his intentions. It's impossible not to be so if you've read just a few of his posts. But I would like to see him present his answer to my question, "What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners'?"
'Because blacks (or maybe: Muslims!? or maybe: black Muslims???) are over represented in the statistics,' might seem like an odd answer even to him.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th January 2020, 10:59 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I'm aware of his intentions. It's impossible not to be so if you've read just a few of his posts. But I would like to see him present his answer to my question, "What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners'?"
'Because blacks (or maybe: Muslims!? or maybe: black Muslims???) are over represented in the statistics,' might seem like an odd answer even to him.
You were interested in deconstructing rapists to get a better understanding of them. I informed you the US keeps records of such horrible crimes including the location of the rape, the race and sex of both the rapist and victim. I never said "black" in this thread (until now). And now for some reason you seem uninterested in examining rapists and who it is they rape.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 06:03 AM   #383
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Not at all! Please inform me! What is your answer to my question? "What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners'?"
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 2nd February 2020, 07:32 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Not at all! Please inform me! What is your answer to my question? "What makes some people want to have sex with unwilling 'partners'?"
Perhaps he doesn't know the answer, but still thinks that some information might be useful to answering the question.

I doubt his interpretation of that information is particularly useful. I also don't think that the racial aspect is useful, either. But those racial differences also correlate, to some extent with socio-economic differences, and those factors might come in to play here. Any explanation of the demographic differences should actually shed some light on your question.

(I think Baylor is trolling, I just think that there could be a more meaningful response to his posts)
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Old 2nd February 2020, 09:20 PM   #385
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Perhaps he doesn't know the answer, but still thinks that some information might be useful to answering the question.

I doubt his interpretation of that information is particularly useful. I also don't think that the racial aspect is useful, either. But those racial differences also correlate, to some extent with socio-economic differences, and those factors might come in to play here. Any explanation of the demographic differences should actually shed some light on your question.

(I think Baylor is trolling, I just think that there could be a more meaningful response to his posts)
So informing a non-American member that the US government keeps data on the crime he is interested discussing is "trolling." Seriously roboramma, you're better than that, leave comments like that to dann.
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Old 11th February 2020, 06:38 AM   #386
dann
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Perhaps he doesn't know the answer, but still thinks that some information might be useful to answering the question.

I doubt his interpretation of that information is particularly useful. I also don't think that the racial aspect is useful, either. But those racial differences also correlate, to some extent with socio-economic differences, and those factors might come in to play here. Any explanation of the demographic differences should actually shed some light on your question.

(I think Baylor is trolling, I just think that there could be a more meaningful response to his posts)

He obviously isn't interested in answering my question about the intentions and motivations of rapists, which is why I would like to see him explain how exactly his alleged information is supposed to do that. That he declines to do doesn't surprise me.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th February 2020, 01:18 PM   #387
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People of different races and religions don't view rape as a horrible crime like self-righteous northern Europeans. That's why cultures of the Middle East make it incumbent on the woman to protect herself from rape by being fully clothed and always being accompanied by a man. Sexual pests from other countries ask, "why do you let your women go out like this [scantily clad] if you won't want them being raped?"

As I said innumerable times here, this place can only see things through the lens of a white person living in a white country. So if you are really interested in the question (you're not), ask someone from India, Pakistan, or Africa as they have extremely higher rape cases than "international" (white) countries. That you decline to do so doesn't surprise me.
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:09 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
People of different races and religions don't view rape as a horrible crime like self-righteous northern Europeans. That's why cultures of the Middle East make it incumbent on the woman to protect herself from rape by being fully clothed and always being accompanied by a man. Sexual pests from other countries ask, "why do you let your women go out like this [scantily clad] if you won't want them being raped?"

As I said innumerable times here, this place can only see things through the lens of a white person living in a white country. So if you are really interested in the question (you're not), ask someone from India, Pakistan, or Africa as they have extremely higher rape cases than "international" (white) countries. That you decline to do so doesn't surprise me.
What I'm getting from these two paragraphs:

1) Covering your women and making them be accompanied by a man is a failing strategy in preventing rape, because countries that do this have more rape than white countries where women can go around unaccompanied and scantily clad without being raped very much.

2) Being anti-rape is self-righteous, normal people don't see rape as a big deal.
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Old 11th February 2020, 06:52 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
What I'm getting from these two paragraphs:

1) Covering your women and making them be accompanied by a man is a failing strategy in preventing rape, because countries that do this have more rape than white countries where women can go around unaccompanied and scantily clad without being raped very much.

2) Being anti-rape is self-righteous, normal people don't see rape as a big deal.
You are wrong because:

1) Comparing Middle East and other Muslim countries to white countries is a fallacy because you are assuming the people are interchangeable to each other when they are not.

2) I never mentioned anything about "normal people," just informed dann that it's always and only a white person pondering these kinds of things.
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Old 12th February 2020, 02:12 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
People of different races and religions don't view rape as a horrible crime like self-righteous northern Europeans. That's why cultures of the Middle East make it incumbent on the woman to protect herself from rape by being fully clothed and always being accompanied by a man. Sexual pests from other countries ask, "why do you let your women go out like this [scantily clad] if you won't want them being raped?"

As I said innumerable times here, this place can only see things through the lens of a white person living in a white country. So if you are really interested in the question (you're not), ask someone from India, Pakistan, or Africa as they have extremely higher rape cases than "international" (white) countries. That you decline to do so doesn't surprise me.

If you were really interested in the question, i.e. what motivates rapists, which you're not, you wouldn't make stuff up based on nothing but your ignorance. You would have read the thread and discovered that you are the one who isn't interested in rape culture in other countries. So let me refer you to posts 243 and 246.
The idea that the way that women dress is the reason why some of them are raped doesn't really depend on race. Otherwise, it would be hard to explain the attitude change in pre-dominantly white countries.
One serious problem when comparing rape rates is that the definition of rape varies from country to country.
Novaphile got it right, but I think that everybody around here already knew that you can only see things through the lens of a white supremacist.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th February 2020, 12:09 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
You are wrong because:

1) Comparing Middle East and other Muslim countries to white countries is a fallacy because you are assuming the people are interchangeable to each other when they are not.

2) I never mentioned anything about "normal people," just informed dann that it's always and only a white person pondering these kinds of things.

Recent news stories from places like Indonesia, India, Myanmar, Somalia and other places tell me there are plenty of non-white people pondering these things as well, so I think your perception is inaccurate.

So...being anti-rape is self-righteous behavior of white people? Are non-white people who are anti-rape also self-righteous?
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:50 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Recent news stories from places like Indonesia, India, Myanmar, Somalia and other places tell me there are plenty of non-white people pondering these things as well, so I think your perception is inaccurate.
That white people are more concerned with rape and sexual assault than non-whites, particularly Indians, Pakistanis, and Africans is an accurate characterization.

Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
...being anti-rape is self-righteous behavior of white people? Are non-white people who are anti-rape also self-righteous?
I never said "Being anti-rape is self-righteous behavior."

Last edited by Baylor; 12th February 2020 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 12th February 2020, 07:54 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
If you were really interested in the question, i.e. what motivates rapists, which you're not, you wouldn't make stuff up based on nothing but your ignorance. You would have read the thread and discovered that you are the one who isn't interested in rape culture in other countries. So let me refer you to posts 243 and 246.
The idea that the way that women dress is the reason why some of them are raped doesn't really depend on race. Otherwise, it would be hard to explain the attitude change in pre-dominantly white countries.
One serious problem when comparing rape rates is that the definition of rape varies from country to country.
Novaphile got it right, but I think that everybody around here already knew that you can only see things through the lens of a white supremacist.
Yes the the definition of rape differs from country to country and many countries' governments are too incompetent to keep any types of statistics. Luckily the US is competent enough and we see that the data fits my theory perfectly that whites are less prone to rape and sexual assault. And yes Indians are more prone to rape than whites that's why their country is a "misogynistic society" according to you -- interesting characterization of India from a not white supremacist.
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Old 13th February 2020, 03:37 AM   #394
dann
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No, that is definitely not "why their country is a "misogynistic society" according to" me! Could you explain to us how you came up with that strawman?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th February 2020, 09:25 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
That white people are more concerned with rape and sexual assault than non-whites, particularly Indians, Pakistanis, and Africans is an accurate characterization.
I don't think that's true. Can you show evidence?

Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I never said "Being anti-rape is self-righteous behavior."
You said, "People of different races and religions don't view rape as a horrible crime like self-righteous northern Europeans." To me that reads as though you consider Northern Europeans to be self-righteous for being anti-rape. If that's not correct, tell me how I should have interpreted that?
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:26 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I don't think that's true. Can you show evidence?
I think it is.
Quote:
When a condemned killer said the woman he and others brutally gang-raped on a New Delhi bus was responsible for what had happened to her, his comments were shocking in their callousness and lack of remorse. But the underlying view has wide acceptance in India.

...

When one of the four men sentenced to death for the high-profile gang rape of the woman in 2012 was quoted in a new documentary as saying "a girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy," he was repeating something community and religious leaders in this nation of 1.2 billion routinely say.
Business Insider
Here's what most Indian men think about rape
MUNEEZA NAQVI, Associated Press Mar 4, 2015, 4:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, Article Views: 4,768, Time to read approx 6 minutes (see dann for other irrelevant data points in unnecessary markups)


Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You said, "People of different races and religions don't view rape as a horrible crime like self-righteous northern Europeans." To me that reads as though you consider Northern Europeans to be self-righteous for being anti-rape. If that's not correct, tell me how I should have interpreted that?
Found your problem.

Last edited by Baylor; 13th February 2020 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 13th February 2020, 01:26 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I think it is.

Business Insider
Here's what most Indian men think about rape
MUNEEZA NAQVI, Associated Press Mar 4, 2015, 4:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, Article Views: 4,768, Time to read approx 6 minutes (see dann for other irrelevant data points in unnecessary markups)
Very similar things happen in the United States with white people. Blame is put on a victim based on her clothing or other factors. Rapists are often not prosecuted if they meet their victims on a dating app, or if they engaged in sexting with the victim before the attack.

Those attackers in India were sentenced to death. By comparison, this gang rape of a teen-aged girl in California resulted in the attackers being given sentences from 30 to 45 days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Audrie_Pott


Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Found your problem.
Then please clarify who you were describing as "self-righteous" and why you think they were self-righteous?
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:01 PM   #398
Baylor
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Very similar things happen in the United States with white people. Blame is put on a victim based on her clothing or other factors. Rapists are often not prosecuted if they meet their victims on a dating app, or if they engaged in sexting with the victim before the attack.

Those attackers in India were sentenced to death. By comparison, this gang rape of a teen-aged girl in California resulted in the attackers being given sentences from 30 to 45 days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Audrie_Pott




Then please clarify who you were describing as "self-righteous" and why you think they were self-righteous?
I disagree with your characterization of white people's attitudes on rape. I have provided evidence for my claim in a lengthy exposé you have yet to defend your argument in any meaningful way.
Quote:
Then please clarify who you were describing as "self-righteous" and why you think they were self-righteous?
Northern Europeans because that's how I characterize them.
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:51 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I disagree with your characterization of white people's attitudes on rape. I have provided evidence for my claim in a lengthy exposé you have yet to defend your argument in any meaningful way.
Well, your evidence includes an anecdote from India of men being put to death for rape, which indicates they take rape very seriously.

Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Northern Europeans because that's how I characterize them.
Therefore my earlier characterization of your opinion that Northern Europeans are self-righteous for being anti-rape is correct.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:25 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Well, your evidence includes an anecdote from India of men being put to death for rape, which indicates they take rape very seriously.
Ok it's obvious you've never been to India which I guess is a huge insult according to this board.



Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Therefore my earlier characterization of your opinion that Northern Europeans are self-righteous for being anti-rape is correct.
No it isn't
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