Merged 2019-nCoV / Corona virus

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Skeptic Ginger said:
You work it out:

It only takes one person unloading cargo to spread it to a dock worker.
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But aren't measures like travel restrictions not meant for complete containment (which seems impossible at this point) but to slow down the spread even with the knowledge it will be everywhere eventually?
 
eeyore1954 said:
Maybe I wasn't paying that much attention but I don't recall this kind of hysteria for the H1N1 virus which apparently infected tens of millions in the US.
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As one of those who had H1N1, I think the difference is the apparent higher percentage of fatal cases.
 
Armitage72 said:
Customers in El Salvador are asking our regional rep for Central and South America if we have any disinfectants that can be applied to a large area by fogger. The problem is that nobody reputable does. A number of years ago the EPA contacted every company with fogging directions on their labels and required them to either submit new efficacy data using a newly developed testing protocol to show their product actually worked when fogged, or remove fogging from their label. There were concerns that fogging wouldn't apply enough active ingredient to surfaces to achieve the same efficacy as direct application.
I found one product approved for fogging, but when applied by fog it only kills two specific bacteria and clostridium difficile spores. Killing viruses still requires directly applying the liquid.
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Laurie Garrett** commented on this in a news interview yesterday. There were videos of workers fogging streets in China and she said she knows of no chemical that could actually kill the organisms.

During SARS they were using vinegar to disinfect surfaces and I know that doesn't work.

**Garrett, author of The Coming Plague, an excellent book and she's a well qualified expert in this field.
https://www.ted.com/speakers/laurie_garrett
 
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portlandatheist said:
But aren't measures like travel restrictions not meant for complete containment (which seems impossible at this point) but to slow down the spread even with the knowledge it will be everywhere eventually?
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This whole sidetrack is a waste of time. A suggestion was made as to how Hawaii could isolate itself from the world. I merely mentioned one hole of many in that hypothetical plan.

Everyone is welcome to knock themselves out discussing a meaningless hypothesis. I see nothing to be gained.
 
Dr. Keith said:
As one of those who had H1N1, I think the difference is the apparent higher percentage of fatal cases.
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One huge difference which is part of the fear formula is CoV-19 is essentially exotic. People fear what they don't know.

Everyone is familiar with flu. Ergo it is not so scary.
 
US isn't 'remotely prepared' to test for coronavirus, only 5 states have test kits.

As the new coronavirus continues to infect people around the world, the rush to test for the virus has taken on a new urgency. But the United States is lagging on that front, in part due to faulty test kits and strict regulations, experts told Live Science.
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Currently, 57 individuals in the U.S. have COVID-19, the illness associated with the novel coronavirus. The United States has been "exceptionally fortunate to not have [had] many cases," Greninger said, but the Trump administration has wasted precious time, which could have been used to develop and disseminate tests for the virus in all 50 states.
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In early February, the CDC sent testing kits to labs across the U.S., but a glitch in the kits made them unusable. Now, more than a month later, just five state health departments — in California, Illinois, Nebraska, Nevada and Tennessee — as well as the CDC, have the ability to test for the virus, known as SARS-CoV-2.
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https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-coronovirus-test.html
 
eeyore1954 said:
Maybe I wasn't paying that much attention but I don't recall this kind of hysteria for the H1N1 virus which apparently infected tens of millions in the US.
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Very easy:

H1N1 pdm09 - death rate 0.02%
Covid-19 - death rate 2%

100 times more fatal is always going to be treated a little more seriously.

The numbers today are a fraction of what you'll see next week - it looks to me as though WHO should be declaring a pandemic right now.
 
pipelineaudio said:
Are you seriously saying that the people being dragged out kicking and screaming or being welded into houses are

"there didn’t appear to be any government pressure or presence forcing that sense of duty. People were adhering to quarantine protocols on their own"?

And yes, the idea that giant organizations like the NBA or companies like Nike, Disney or EA games will willingly regurgitate chinese government propganda and/or suck up to them but the WHO wouldn't seem silly, its the cost of doing business there, and you could even say you could morally justify it in order to at least get the WHO in or something

The WHO has a long and quite disgusting history or running apologetics and propping up chinese "medicine" quackery that causes the extinction of animals and pushing the alleged efficacy of nonsense like acupuncture.

That whole press conference really did just sound like suckup nonsense to me, I was actually pretty shocked, but the WHO so often lets me down so I guess I wasn't super surprised in the end
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Edited by zooterkin: 
<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
 
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I suggest stocking up on Everclear 150. 75% Ethanol. Good disinfectant and cheap. Multi-purpose. Used to mix it with Kool-Aid for parties in college.

I also like the 95% version. A bit more expensive but really good for lots of cleaning purposes. Had to drive to Arizona to get that one though.
 
The National Board of Health is keeping secret how much capacity the healthcare system has to isolate people infected with the new corona virus. "Our assessment is based on the fact that the documents contain information that could jeopardize the safety of society if they became known," writes the The National Board of Health in a decision when DN tries to access the information.
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Doomed.
 
The Atheist said:
Very easy:

H1N1 pdm09 - death rate 0.02%
Covid-19 - death rate 2%

100 times more fatal is always going to be treated a little more seriously.
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Exactly. Combine that with an R0 of 2 to 3 with few immune and you have a real problem.

That some media commentators are comparing it to the flu or a cold says they are either innumerate or plain lying.

I do think that once the gravity of this sinks in, which will probably be when outbreaks in the thousands occur (in America) that the R0 will drop to a bit below 1. That will put the brakes on it as schools, movie theaters, restaurants, churches, etc. shutter. It will exact a considerable economic cost and one that is ongoing until a vaccine or treatment is found, manufactured, and distributed or it declines through some other process.
 
Also Russian trolls are hard at work spreading conspiracy theories about the outbreak, such as that it is somehow connected with 5G wireless technology. Russia really dislikes 5G for some strange reason, and their bots and paid trolls push conspiracy theories about it all the time.
 
I was riding my bike at Lanikai park this morning and marveling that the steady stream of Japanese visitors to Lanikai beach has not seemed to slow by a single thong
 
marting said:
I suggest stocking up on Everclear 150. 75% Ethanol. Good disinfectant and cheap. Multi-purpose. Used to mix it with Kool-Aid for parties in college.
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Some genius had the idea that it would help hygiene in NZ prisons a few years back.

Many drunk and violent prisoners later, they had a re-think.

marting said:
Exactly. Combine that with an R0 of 2 to 3 with few immune and you have a real problem.

That some media commentators are comparing it to the flu or a cold says they are either innumerate or plain lying.
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I'd go with ignorance - it's more widespread than the virus at this stage.

It's the same reason people keep buying low on the sharemarket, only to see it go lower.

Once the full impact hits the west, you'll see them go from apathy to panic.

marting said:
I do think that once the gravity of this sinks in, which will probably be when outbreaks in the thousands occur (in America) that the R0 will drop to a bit below 1. That will put the brakes on it as schools, movie theaters, restaurants, churches, etc. shutter. It will exact a considerable economic cost and one that is ongoing until a vaccine or treatment is found, manufactured, and distributed or it declines through some other process.
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Bingo - echoing very much my thoughts.
 
A second person in Sweden has been infected by the virus. It's a man in his thirties who lives in Gothenburg and had been on a vacation in Northern Italy before they came back and experienced symptoms, at which point they used a public online health advisory service and they were directed towards the local infectious diseases centre.

They apparently have a good idea of any likely people he may have infected.
 
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Trump has proclaimed Pence a healthcare expert and puts him in charge of the Coronavirus response.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump has proclaimed Pence a healthcare expert and puts him in charge of the Coronavirus response.
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"Let Mikey do it"

:sdl:

I should add it didn't stop Trump from giving an hour long press conference bragging about how his decision to ban all Chinese nationals from China (as if Americans don't carry disease) has kept the country safe. And of course he added his usual BS that everyone complained but look how smart Trump was.... gag.

Happily the news media didn't fall for it and cover the BS live. They showed snippets then said they'd monitor it if there was anything else newsworthy.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
This whole sidetrack is a waste of time. A suggestion was made as to how Hawaii could isolate itself from the world. I merely mentioned one hole of many in that hypothetical plan.

Everyone is welcome to knock themselves out discussing a meaningless hypothesis. I see nothing to be gained.
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This is what I was trying to get at, from the Mad Virologist:
pandemic.png

(I'm having issues sharing the image even though it is on Dropbox)
https://virologydownunder.com/so-you-think-youve-about-to-be-in-a-pandemic/
Authorities will try to slow the speed of COVID-19 to prevent hospitals – which are essential to care for the sickest people – from being overloaded. Public gatherings – sports events and concerts – as well as schools and childcare centres, could be postponed or closed. All of which aims will be to keep people apart, making it harder for the virus to spread quickly. Again, these decisions will differ between places, and may not even have to be made.
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Some other general good information in there about preparing.
 
More ignorance on masks on the local news: a beard will block the exhalation valve. Where does this crap come from, rumors in the news room?

What idiots, it's so basic. Facial hair interferes with a tight seal on your face.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
More ignorance on masks on the local news: a beard will block the exhalation valve. Where does this crap come from, rumors in the news room?

What idiots, it's so basic. Facial hair interferes with a tight seal on your face.
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I got some pretty extensive NBC training in the US Army..more then the average grunt;I was in the Artillery, and we are the ones who will probably deliver the stuff ..at least with chemical weapons..if we have to retaliate....and I have to laugh at a lot of the ignorance concering protection I am seeing nowdays.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
More ignorance on masks on the local news: a beard will block the exhalation valve. Where does this crap come from, rumors in the news room?

What idiots, it's so basic. Facial hair interferes with a tight seal on your face.
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Yeah. You're right of course but if it gets people wearing masks to shave it's all good.

DJT backed off his more ridiculous tweets so there's some progress. It's a small start preparing people for what's most likely to be required.
 
From today's press conference: Trump just had to show that map that had the U.S. as NUMBER 1 in preparedness to fight the spread. Reading down the list, he got to #7, South Korea, without even a trace of recognition of the major problem they're having right now.

He's also foisting off all responsibility to Pence so that he has someone to blame when all goes south.

And he did say "We'll see what happens..."
 
alfaniner said:
From today's press conference: Trump just had to show that map that had the U.S. as NUMBER 1 in preparedness to fight the spread. Reading down the list, he got to #7, South Korea, without even a trace of recognition of the major problem they're having right now.

He's also foisting off all responsibility to Pence so that he has someone to blame when all goes south.

And he did say "We'll see what happens..."
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There is concern that the reason why South Korea has such high numbers is simply a reflection of the fact that they have had more extensive testing than a lot of other places.
 
Armitage72 said:
So the healing power of prayer?
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Hasn’t worked so well so far give that some of the major outbreaks have occurred at religious sites such as Qom in Iran and that religious cult in South Korea.

Oh, but of course....they must have got it because they are worshipping the wrong religion.

ETA: countdown to “punishment from God....”
 
The Atheist said:
I think you could put safe money on the Olympics being postponed right now.
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Yeah, as I said before, this has been the chatter on the TV for some time here in Japan regardless of what the official word has been. In fact, the official word hasn’t changed much like the WHO is insisting that there is no pandemic yet.

Now in Japan, a few prefectures have closed schools and will probably not open again for the rest of the school year (though that is only until the end of March).

Some universities have already cancelled graduation and entrance ceremonies, but they won’t be the last.

I think at some point next week, all schools will close.

I had planned to go to the cinema to watch 1917 this morning, but I decided to cancel.
 
The hearless, illegitimate Trump regime is already moving to protect drug company profits in developinn a vaccine.

Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar on Wednesday declined to promise that a coronavirus vaccine would be affordable for all Americans.

"We would want to ensure that we work to make it affordable, but we can't control that price because we need the private sector to invest," Azar told members of Congress during a hearing concerning the coronavirus outbreak and the administration's budget request. "Price controls won't get us there."
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https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...p4835LojP9ltgt6yU0Man07-kD4nAok-snd2psz2kHMDE

ALL medical research should belong to the government so it's benefits can be provided "at cost" or subsidized as needed.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
More ignorance on masks on the local news: a beard will block the exhalation valve. Where does this crap come from, rumors in the news room?

What idiots, it's so basic. Facial hair interferes with a tight seal on your face.
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Yup, that's why in the RN sailors with beards have to shave them off before going in to action
 
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