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Old 31st March 2020, 09:19 PM   #201
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And that's because the "travel restrictions" as he implemented them were racist. He didn't ban all travel from China, he only banned the travel of Chinese people. He explicitly didn't ban Americans from traveling to or from China, and didn't place any other restrictions on them. No health checks, no isolation, not even a warning that they might have a problem.

That's a big part of what made it racist. The assumption that only Chinese travelers posed a risk of importing this disease.

Another thing that made it racist is that, subsequent to the travel ban, he did literally nothing else to limit the spread of the disease, or prepare the US to handle the disease. So it's clear he didn't really care about the spread of the virus, he just wanted an excuse to ban Chinese travel to the US.

Had Trump actually imposed serious travel restrictions, akin to what Singapore did, and then used that time to prepare for the inevitable cases that would arise from other sources, then it wouldn't have been racist. But of course, being that he is who he is, there was never any chance of him doing something that responsible and forward-thinking.
There's absolutely nothing racist about it. Your false narrative vehicle just got a flat.

From Whitehouse.gov:

"Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Certain Additional Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting Coronavirus
HEALTHCARE

Issued on: February 29, 2020

On January 31, 2020, I issued Proclamation 9984 (Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting 2019 Novel Coronavirus and Other Appropriate Measures To Address This Risk). I found that the potential for widespread transmission of a novel (new) coronavirus (which has since been renamed “SARS-CoV-2” and causes the disease COVID-19) (“SARS-CoV-2” or “the virus”) by infected individuals seeking to enter the United States threatens the security of our transportation system and infrastructure and the national security. Because the outbreak of the virus was (and is) centered in the People’s Republic of China, I suspended and limited the entry of all aliens who were physically present within the People’s Republic of China, excluding the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States, subject to certain exceptions.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a component of the Department of Health and Human Services, has determined that the virus presents a serious public health threat and continues to take steps to prevent its spread. But CDC, along with State and local health departments, has limited resources, and the public health system could be overwhelmed if sustained human-to-human transmission of the virus occurred in the United States. Sustained human-to-human transmission has the potential to have cascading public health, economic, national security, and societal consequences.

CDC has determined that the Islamic Republic of Iran (Iran) is experiencing sustained person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2. As of February 28, 2020, Iran had 388 cases of COVID-19, a significant increase from prior days. In response to that increase, on February 28, 2020, CDC raised its infectious disease alert to level 3, its highest level, which recommends that travelers avoid all nonessential travel to Iran. According to the World Health Organization, as of February 28, 2020, 97 COVID-19 cases have been exported from Iran to 11 other countries.

Iran is not a trustworthy state actor, as it has repeatedly demonstrated through its history of engaging in malign activity, and confirmed most recently by its repeated denials of responsibility for shooting down an international airliner. The United States Government is therefore unable to rely on official information disseminated by Iran, undermining the effective evaluation and monitoring of travelers continuing to arrive from that country.

The potential for undetected transmission of the virus by infected individuals seeking to enter the United States from Iran threatens the security of our transportation system and infrastructure and the national security. Given the importance of protecting persons within the United States from the threat of this harmful communicable disease, I have determined that it is in the interests of the United States to take action to restrict and suspend the entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within Iran during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, hereby find that the unrestricted entry into the United States of persons described in section 1 of this proclamation would, except as provided for in section 2 of this proclamation, be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and that their entry should be subject to certain restrictions, limitations, and exceptions. I therefore hereby proclaim the following:

Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry. The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Islamic Republic of Iran during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.

Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.

(a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:

(i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;

(ii) any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;

(iii) any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21;

(iv) any alien who is the sibling of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that both are unmarried and under the age of 21;

(v) any alien who is the child, foster child, or ward of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, or who is a prospective adoptee seeking to enter the United States pursuant to the IR-4 or IH-4 visa classifications;

(vi) any alien traveling at the invitation of the United States Government for a purpose related to containment or mitigation of the virus;
(vii) any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;

(viii) any alien

(A) seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas: A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or

(B) whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement;

(ix) any alien whose entry would not pose a significant risk of introducing, transmitting, or spreading the virus, as determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, through the CDC Director or his designee;

(x) any alien whose entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General or his designee;

(xi) any alien whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their designees; or

(xii) members of the U.S. Armed Forces and spouses and children of members of the U.S. Armed Forces.

(b) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to affect any individual’s eligibility for asylum, withholding of removal, or protection under the regulations issued pursuant to the legislation implementing the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, consistent with the laws and regulations of the United States.

Sec. 3. Implementation and Enforcement. (a) The Secretary of State shall implement this proclamation as it applies to visas pursuant to such procedures as the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may establish. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall implement this proclamation as it applies to the entry of aliens pursuant to such procedures as the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, may establish.

(b) Consistent with applicable law, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Transportation, and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall ensure that any alien subject to this proclamation does not board an aircraft traveling to the United States.

(c) The Secretary of Homeland Security may establish standards and procedures to ensure the application of this proclamation at and between all United States ports of entry.

(d) An alien who circumvents the application of this proclamation through fraud, willful misrepresentation of a material fact, or illegal entry shall be a priority for removal by the Department of Homeland Security.

Sec. 4. Amendments to Proclamation 9984. Proclamation 9984 is amended as follows:

(a) Section 2(a)(viii) of Proclamation 9984 is amended to read as follows: “(viii) any alien (A) seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas: A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or (B) whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement;”

(b) Section 3(c) of Proclamation 9984 is amended to read as follows: “(c) The Secretary of Homeland Security may establish standards and procedures to ensure the application of this proclamation at and between all United States ports of entry.”

(c) Section 5 of Proclamation 9984 is amended to read as follows:

“Sec. 5. Termination. This proclamation shall remain in effect until terminated by the President. The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall, as circumstances warrant and no more than 15 days after the date of this proclamation and thereafter on the first and fifteenth day of each calendar month, recommend that the President continue, modify, or terminate this proclamation and any other proclamation suspending or limiting the entry of foreign nationals into the United States as immigrants or nonimmigrants because of the threat posed by the virus.”

Sec. 5. Termination. This proclamation shall remain in effect until terminated by the President.

Sec. 6. Effective Date. This proclamation is effective at 5:00 p.m. eastern standard time on March 2, 2020. This proclamation does not apply to persons aboard a flight scheduled to arrive in the United States that departed prior to 5:00 p.m. eastern standard time on March 2, 2020.

Sec. 7. Severability. It is the policy of the United States to enforce this proclamation to the maximum extent possible to advance the national security, public safety, and foreign policy interests of the United States. Accordingly:

(a) if any provision of this proclamation, or the application of any provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be invalid, the remainder of this proclamation and the application of its provisions to any other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby; and

(b) if any provision of this proclamation, or the application of any provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be invalid because of the lack of certain procedural requirements, the relevant executive branch officials shall implement those procedural requirements to conform with existing law and with any applicable court orders.

Sec. 8. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This proclamation shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This proclamation is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-ninth day of February, in the year of our Lord two thousand twenty, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-fourth.

DONALD J. TRUMP"
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Old 31st March 2020, 09:23 PM   #202
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So he has permitted all US citizens who were in China and Iran to return to the USA. Bringing with them COVID from China and/or Iran. Bingo, outbreak.

How patriotic is that!
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Old 31st March 2020, 09:24 PM   #203
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Old 31st March 2020, 09:32 PM   #204
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Trump's travel restrictions were not set up to maximize isolation and containment.

Trump and his team had a clear guidebook, they knew exactly who was on the Pandemic Response Team and who participated in the Pandemic War Games.
And none of them have been called in to advice and help, something Trump had said he would do if he needs to when he disbanded the Response Team.

There is NOTHING Trump has no right here that he didn't do his damnedest first to do wrong.
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Old 31st March 2020, 09:33 PM   #205
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There's also the travel ban from Europe, racist as well? Geez, when the cry of "Racist!" becomes a go-to word, it really loses its umph. Ever hear the story about the boy who cried wolf?

Personally, I know that banning travel into the US from highly infected areas of the World was a smart thing to do and it saved lives. It may have saved yours if you're in the US, I'm glad of that and agree it was a good decision. You're worth it.

Chris B.
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Old 31st March 2020, 09:54 PM   #206
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When did Trump do the Europe ban?
And why were countries like the UK originally exempt?

At this point, there is no much evidence that any of the travel bans had a significant impact.
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Old 31st March 2020, 10:24 PM   #207
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March 14th, and the UK was not exempt.

A snippet from whitehouse.gov:

"CDC has determined that the United Kingdom is experiencing widespread, ongoing person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2. As of March 13, 2020, the World Health Organization reported that the United Kingdom had 594 cases of COVID-19, 5 times more cases than there were 7 days prior."

No evidence that the decision to do so was wrong. Importing sick people is not a smart thing to do if you're trying to put a lid on a pandemic.

Chris B.
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Old 31st March 2020, 11:34 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
March 14th, and the UK was not exempt.

A snippet from whitehouse.gov:

"CDC has determined that the United Kingdom is experiencing widespread, ongoing person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2. As of March 13, 2020, the World Health Organization reported that the United Kingdom had 594 cases of COVID-19, 5 times more cases than there were 7 days prior."

No evidence that the decision to do so was wrong. Importing sick people is not a smart thing to do if you're trying to put a lid on a pandemic.

Chris B.
A pandemic you claimed was a hoax only a few days earlier?
How do you know who is sick if you have no test kits?

Seriously and objectively - Trump is an incompetent con man who is in over his head, flailing around trying to stick blame anywhere but on himself.
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Old 1st April 2020, 12:32 AM   #209
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GOP - Party of Personal Responsibility.
Everyone else's personal responsibility that is.
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Old 1st April 2020, 02:35 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
There's absolutely nothing racist about it. Your false narrative vehicle just got a flat.
It's best not to give their religion and its dogma any credence -- that "racism" is the mother of all sins.

Most countries, sane countries, enacted "racist" measures to combat covid-19, and they're faring much better. Because they care more about their citizens than the deranged virtual signaling and dogma of white people.
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Old 1st April 2020, 05:38 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Because the outbreak of the virus was (and is) centered in the People’s Republic of China, I suspended and limited the entry of all aliens who were physically present within the People’s Republic of China,


Specifically limited to "Aliens", specifically excluded Americans.

Now, exactly how many non-Chinese "Aliens" traveled to China, and then subsequently traveled to the US? Compare that number to the number of Americans who traveled directly between the US and China.

Go ahead, fall for his fig leaf if you want, but the rest of us can see through it.

And you don't address the fact that he did nothing else, as I also mentioned, and, as such, what little benefit his limited travel ban might have provided was squandered by his complete lack of other actions.
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Old 1st April 2020, 05:54 AM   #212
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Well, they are saying whatever Fox News and hate radio are currently telling them. They seem also to have the memory of a goldfish, so when the party line takes an 180 degree turn, they splutter for a moment and then adopt the new truth and march to that tune. Like "this little flu is so under control that forget about it" to "Trump will have saved America from utter destruction if there is less than 200 000 deaths". What can you do?
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:04 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Not so fast, Trump puts travel restrictions in place and is called a "xenophobe" and a "racist" by the same folks who now claim he didn't do enough early on. Can anyone honestly wonder why Trump's approval ratings are so high?
This is just a false narrative.

Yes, I'm sure some people did call him a racist and a xenophobe when he put the travel restrictions on. However, most people didn't. It seemed perfectly reasonable to most people.

The problem is that that's all he did. Oh, goody. We don't have people coming in from China anymore. Now we're set.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:10 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
There's also the travel ban from Europe, racist as well?
I can't speak for anyone else, but my own answer is "Who cares?"

However, this thread isn't where I want to debate that. I'll simply note that one of the themes we are likely to see from Trump supporters is something along the lines of, "Trump tried to do so much more, but he couldn't because bad people said nasty things about him."
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:37 AM   #215
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The only mention of racism in this thread was over Trump's dogged insistence on calling COVID-19 the 'Chinese' virus.

This is pure strawman to cover for the utter ineptness this administration. Another smokescreen to cover the drooling idiot in chief.
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Old 1st April 2020, 07:29 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
March 14th, and the UK was not exempt.

A snippet from whitehouse.gov:

"CDC has determined that the United Kingdom is experiencing widespread, ongoing person-to-person transmission of SARS-CoV-2. As of March 13, 2020, the World Health Organization reported that the United Kingdom had 594 cases of COVID-19, 5 times more cases than there were 7 days prior."

No evidence that the decision to do so was wrong. Importing sick people is not a smart thing to do if you're trying to put a lid on a pandemic.

Chris B.
Uh, no.
The ban in travel from Schengen countries was put into effect on the Saturday (14th).
The UK and Ireland bans (which were tagged on later on the Saturday) came into effect on the Tuesday (UK time). Three days later. With a virus that doubles every 2-3 days.
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Old 1st April 2020, 07:30 AM   #217
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This feels like a "let's bash the Trumper's cuz they're stupid cuz they think C19 is a hoax" thread.

...As someone who lives in the big Blue state of New York...

Let me point out the ever increasing numbers of people contracting this virus. The people here have been asked, told, and pleaded with to stay the F home to stop the spread...and they are NOT.

I have to deal with these people daily. These aren't Trumpers. These are people that despise him. They are convinced this is all a joke. They are convinced Trump is overblowing the situation. They are convinced the Trump is doing too much. They are convinced Trump is not doing enough. They are convinced that Trump should have shut down the borders on Day 1. They are convinced that Trump should have banned travels to and from New York City.

Above all, no declaration from neither Cuomo nor Trump will keep them home...this, after all, is America, and they are going to do whatever they please.

I see it. Every. Single. Day.

Stop the incessant "blame Trump", "Trumper's are dumb", "Trump sucks" nonsense.

The spread of this virus is directly caused by PEOPLE. It doesn't matter is they're blue, red, white, black, peach, or mauve. Every one of these idiots I speak to on a daily basis are directly responsible.

The red/blue divide with the usual finger pointing is not going to solve the problem here and most likely is direct cause of spread we are seeing.

tl;dr - the Blues and Reds are sharing the ignorance and stupidity during this pandemic.


*FWIW, before the bashing starts, I'm NOT a Trump supporter.
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Old 1st April 2020, 07:35 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
A pandemic you claimed was a hoax only a few days earlier?
How do you know who is sick if you have no test kits?

Seriously and objectively - Trump is an incompetent con man who is in over his head, flailing around trying to stick blame anywhere but on himself.
When did "I" ever claim the pandemic was a hoax? Oh I see, you're projecting Trump hatred.

How's that working out for you? I think if you can raise your temp a few more degrees you just may get warm enough to burn off those Covid-19 bugs.

Chris B.
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Old 1st April 2020, 07:42 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Uh, no.
The ban in travel from Schengen countries was put into effect on the Saturday (14th).
The UK and Ireland bans (which were tagged on later on the Saturday) came into effect on the Tuesday (UK time). Three days later. With a virus that doubles every 2-3 days.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...coronavirus-2/

"Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Certain Additional Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting Coronavirus
HEALTHCARE

Issued on: March 14, 2020"

The order says March 14th, I suppose the "confusion" about it evidently remains.

Chris B.
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Old 1st April 2020, 07:45 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
This feels like a "let's bash the Trumper's cuz they're stupid cuz they think C19 is a hoax" thread.

...As someone who lives in the big Blue state of New York...

Let me point out the ever increasing numbers of people contracting this virus. The people here have been asked, told, and pleaded with to stay the F home to stop the spread...and they are NOT.

I have to deal with these people daily. These aren't Trumpers. These are people that despise him. They are convinced this is all a joke. They are convinced Trump is overblowing the situation. They are convinced the Trump is doing too much. They are convinced Trump is not doing enough. They are convinced that Trump should have shut down the borders on Day 1. They are convinced that Trump should have banned travels to and from New York City.

Above all, no declaration from neither Cuomo nor Trump will keep them home...this, after all, is America, and they are going to do whatever they please.

I see it. Every. Single. Day.

Stop the incessant "blame Trump", "Trumper's are dumb", "Trump sucks" nonsense.

The spread of this virus is directly caused by PEOPLE. It doesn't matter is they're blue, red, white, black, peach, or mauve. Every one of these idiots I speak to on a daily basis are directly responsible.

The red/blue divide with the usual finger pointing is not going to solve the problem here and most likely is direct cause of spread we are seeing.

tl;dr - the Blues and Reds are sharing the ignorance and stupidity during this pandemic.


*FWIW, before the bashing starts, I'm NOT a Trump supporter.
Good post. I just wanted to add I also believe it's important to note as Americans, we're in this together. Finger pointing and ill will serves no purpose other than to release steam I suppose. Maybe some need that, I don't.

Chris B.
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:02 AM   #221
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If we are in this together, why does the Administration make FEMA and the States bid against each other for medical supplies?
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:07 AM   #222
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https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-t...l&uh_test=1_04

Quote:
Diamond & Silk, who are hosts on the Fox Nation streaming site and allies of President Trump whom he has praised online, said Monday that the number of coronavirus deaths being reported by the media had been inflated to make the president look bad.
I'm sorry, you people were saying....?
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:32 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Good post. I just wanted to add I also believe it's important to note as Americans, we're in this together. Finger pointing and ill will serves no purpose other than to release steam I suppose. Maybe some need that, I don't.

Chris B.
There is a difference, I think, between finger pointing and accountability.
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:36 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
This NYT article seems on topic.
I predicted long ago that COVID would help Trump in the polls because of the close link conservatism has with fear. Not only are conservatives more afraid in general, making people afraid has the effect of making them lean farther right on the political spectrum. Thus, the worse Trump performs the more reason there is for fear and the more fear there is the more prone people are to voting for him.

The silver lining is that 6 months from now COVID will have become the new normal, fear levels will be lower and people will be more prone to be angry that the US performed much more poorly than most other western countries.
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:37 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-t...l&uh_test=1_04

Quote:
Diamond & Silk, who are hosts on the Fox Nation streaming site and allies of President Trump whom he has praised online, said Monday that the number of coronavirus deaths being reported by the media had been inflated to make the president look bad.
I'm sorry, you people were saying....?
When in truth the numbers are likely significantly underestimated unless everyone who dies is tested for coronavirus. There are likely a lot of people, especially older and/or very ill people who are succumbing to the effects of the virus, but the cause of death is misattributed.

IMO it's not through any malign intent, simply because there aren't enough resources to test everyone and IMO it's far more important to test medical professionals and other key workers than the departed.
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:42 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I predicted long ago that COVID would help Trump in the polls because of the close link conservatism has with fear. Not only are conservatives more afraid in general, making people afraid has the effect of making them lean farther right on the political spectrum. Thus, the worse Trump performs the more reason there is for fear and the more fear there is the more prone people are to voting for him.
I think George W. Bush got into 92% after 9/11. And he didn't spend the summer tweeting how ridiculous is the threat of a massive terror attack... So, I don't think we need to wait for 6 months - even though Republicans are even more fanatical these days.
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Old 1st April 2020, 09:00 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If we are in this together, why does the Administration make FEMA and the States bid against each other for medical supplies?
Capitalism! You have to stick to the ideals when the going gets tough and america is founded on capitalism, you can't let socialism creep in just because of a little outbreak.

Capitalism is what makes this country great and so it should shape our response to this.
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Old 1st April 2020, 09:13 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
There is a difference, I think, between finger pointing and accountability.
Trump takes advantage of instant media access by tweeting his nonsense to heart's content, then pisses and moans about real-time criticism of that nonsense. No longer able to assemble his sycophants in adoring masses, he turns his "briefings" into mini-rallies, allowing obsequent morons like Mike Lindell to drool fawning praise all over the lectern.'

But hard questions concerning his laggard response to a pandemic? Not allowed, it's unpatriotic. And as we can see, his sycophants have lapped that up.

Bull ****, he is the President, the buck stops with him, nowhere else. He can't deal with that. He's a snowflake.
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Old 1st April 2020, 09:13 AM   #229
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To quote someone:

"If Capitalism is so great, why does it need Socialism to bail it out every decade or so?"
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Old 1st April 2020, 09:59 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
This feels like a "let's bash the Trumper's cuz they're stupid cuz they think C19 is a hoax" thread.

...As someone who lives in the big Blue state of New York...

Let me point out the ever increasing numbers of people contracting this virus. The people here have been asked, told, and pleaded with to stay the F home to stop the spread...and they are NOT.

I have to deal with these people daily. These aren't Trumpers. These are people that despise him. They are convinced this is all a joke. They are convinced Trump is overblowing the situation. They are convinced the Trump is doing too much. They are convinced Trump is not doing enough. They are convinced that Trump should have shut down the borders on Day 1. They are convinced that Trump should have banned travels to and from New York City.

Above all, no declaration from neither Cuomo nor Trump will keep them home...this, after all, is America, and they are going to do whatever they please.

I see it. Every. Single. Day.

Stop the incessant "blame Trump", "Trumper's are dumb", "Trump sucks" nonsense.

The spread of this virus is directly caused by PEOPLE. It doesn't matter is they're blue, red, white, black, peach, or mauve. Every one of these idiots I speak to on a daily basis are directly responsible.

The red/blue divide with the usual finger pointing is not going to solve the problem here and most likely is direct cause of spread we are seeing.

tl;dr - the Blues and Reds are sharing the ignorance and stupidity during this pandemic.


*FWIW, before the bashing starts, I'm NOT a Trump supporter.
As someone two counties south of you...

The fact there are more factors in play than Trump could have an impact on in absolutely no way mitigates the harm he has caused by his incompetence and malice. Not even has caused already, but continues to cause. Other people being irresponsible isn't a reason not to oppose and try to figure out how to be effective against Trump and the GOP wrongdoing.

Your reasoning just doesn't hold. Those idiots you see not following social distancing, how does that excuse Trump not allowing supplies to be managed nationally? How does that excuse Trump pushing treatments that have not been vetted? How does that excuse Trump and the GOP dismantling systems and information that would have helped contain this very threat?

And how are those people not following social distancing impacted by Trump downplaying the danger, outright lying about measures, and saying those who were warning of the dangers and failings of this virus and his response were engaged in a 'hoax'?

Even your exact example is made worse by Trump, and the Trump-GOP. He does suck. They are being dumb. He does share a lot of the blame. And tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Americans are going to die, who did not need to die, because of it.

The reds and blues don't share equal blame, not even close. This false equivalency is in itself harmful. There is utility in figuring out how to effectively combat the failures and misinformation and that is true no matter how clearly one party is overwhelmingly worse than the other. That a conclusion doesn't fall anywhere near equally over all political parties is no more partizan than a murder investigation that clears one person and condemns another is biased for not finding both guilty.

Follow the evidence. The evidence condemns Trump and his GOP. That the factor you focus on is non-partisan (it actually probably isn't) doesn't change that.
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:13 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
This feels like a "let's bash the Trumper's cuz they're stupid cuz they think C19 is a hoax" thread.
I'm trying to remind myself to not get into debate here, just so the thread isn't completely like that. However, I confess that's not too far from what I expected when I started it.

The premise of the thread is that Trump is doing a lousy job, and there's something weird about thinking he isn't.

ETA: or at least, was doing a lousy job. Maybe he's doing better now.

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Old 1st April 2020, 10:35 AM   #232
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Florida Gov. finally is issuing stay at home orders...only a couple weeks too late. I bet it was the impeachment trial that delayed this action.
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:36 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Florida Gov. finally is issuing stay at home orders...only a couple weeks too late. I bet it was the impeachment trial that delayed this action.
...and had NOTHING to do with the fact that spring break season is now over....

Nope, nothing at all...
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:38 AM   #234
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How many people will die in Florida because the governor wanted the revenue from spring break activities coming into his state..........?
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:57 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
How many people will die in Florida because the governor wanted the revenue from spring break activities coming into his state..........?
Probably less than will die after being encouraged by Di Blasio to get out on the town despite corona virus.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:09 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
How many people will die in Florida because the governor wanted the revenue from spring break activities coming into his state..........?
Which even from his own selfish viewpoint in stupid. He's risking prime summer tourist season.

Even for purely selfish reasons if I'm the governor of Florida I'm sacrificing spring break to save tourist season.

But he's delayed so much even if everything goes good from here on out we risk it not peaking until tourist season starts.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:16 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
This is just a false narrative.

Yes, I'm sure some people did call him a racist and a xenophobe when he put the travel restrictions on. However, most people didn't. It seemed perfectly reasonable to most people.

The problem is that that's all he did. Oh, goody. We don't have people coming in from China anymore. Now we're set.
I agree. I thought banning flights from China was a good idea but that any Americans coming back from there should be made to self-quarantine for the recommended time.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:24 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Trump takes advantage of instant media access by tweeting his nonsense to heart's content, then pisses and moans about real-time criticism of that nonsense. No longer able to assemble his sycophants in adoring masses, he turns his "briefings" into mini-rallies, allowing obsequent morons like Mike Lindell to drool fawning praise all over the lectern.'

But hard questions concerning his laggard response to a pandemic? Not allowed, it's unpatriotic. And as we can see, his sycophants have lapped that up.

Bull ****, he is the President, the buck stops with him, nowhere else. He can't deal with that. He's a snowflake.
And woe to any reporter who dares to ask Trump about anything that would make his actions/comments appear anything less than perfect (like the letter!). He attacks them because 'the best defense is a good offense'.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:26 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree. I thought banning flights from China was a good idea but that any Americans coming back from there should be made to self-quarantine for the recommended time.
Basically it started being racist when it stopped being about "people coming from China" and started being about "Chinese people."

The virus wasn't checking people's passports or birth certificates.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:28 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Probably less than will die after being encouraged by Di Blasio to get out on the town despite corona virus.
Why should you be even worried about this little flu? I mean the president got this already in January. It's over.
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