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Old 1st April 2020, 11:31 AM   #241
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Probably less than will die after being encouraged by Di Blasio to get out on the town despite corona virus.
How does Di Blasio's stupidity lessen DeSantis' stupidity?
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:36 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Which even from his own selfish viewpoint in stupid. He's risking prime summer tourist season.

Even for purely selfish reasons if I'm the governor of Florida I'm sacrificing spring break to save tourist season.

But he's delayed so much even if everything goes good from here on out we risk it not peaking until tourist season starts.
I see you are from there, but I was under the impression that prime tourist season was in the winter. Or maybe you are making a joke?
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:38 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
I agree. I thought banning flights from China was a good idea but that any Americans coming back from there should be made to self-quarantine for the recommended time.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Basically it started being racist when it stopped being about "people coming from China" and started being about "Chinese people."

The virus wasn't checking people's passports or birth certificates.
Nope. The order did not say "Chinese people"; it said:
Quote:
Because the outbreak of the virus was (and is) centered in the People’s Republic of China, I suspended and limited the entry of all aliens who were physically present within the People’s Republic of China,
You're correct that the virus wasn't checking passports or birth certs which is why the order said ALL aliens coming from China. That included everyone of any race or nationality except Americans.
Sorry, but you're doing again exactly what you and others are doing with the "coronavirus...their new hoax" claim.
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:47 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
How does Di Blasio's stupidity lessen DeSantis' stupidity?
What's that? You think Di Blasio is stupid?

What about Nancy Pelosi? Is she stupid too?
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:49 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And woe to any reporter who dares to ask Trump about anything that would make his actions/comments appear anything less than perfect (like the letter!). He attacks them because 'the best defense is a good offense'.
It's worse than that. He attacked Jonathan Karl who had tossed him a softball question. Something like.."What would you say to reassure the American people."
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Old 1st April 2020, 11:49 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Nope. The order did not say "Chinese people"; it said...
I don't give a **** about the technical wording. Save the "It's not champagne it's sparkling wine" crap.

My point stands. Blocking off/restricted a geographical area during a pandemic is perfectly logical. Doing that but letting specific nationality still pass through as if the virus cares about that is not.
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Old 1st April 2020, 12:16 PM   #247
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It seems that Nunes has a lot to say, and as usual it's moronic:

"Let's stop looking at the death counters and let's talk about how we can keep as many people employed as possible," Nunes told Fox anchor Laura Ingraham. "That's the key right now, Laura, because if you don't, what you said earlier is correct. When you have people staying at home, not taking care of themselves, you will end up with a hell of a lot more people dying by other causes than you will by the coronavirus."

"I mean, look, the schools were just canceled out here in California which is way overkill," he added. "It's possible kids could've went back to school in two weeks to four weeks but they just canceled the rest of the schools."
And then there was this: "If we don't start to get people back to work in this country over the next week to two weeks, I don't believe we can wait until the end of April. I just don't know of any economy that's ever survived where you unplug the entire economy and expect things to go back and be normal."

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...=342831&page=7
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Old 1st April 2020, 12:39 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Complete Imbecile
If we don't start to get people back to work in this country over the next week to two weeks . . .
STFU.
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Old 1st April 2020, 12:51 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
..."It's possible kids could've went back to school in two weeks to four weeks but they just canceled the rest of the schools."
"could've went"?!! He must be from Tulare.
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Old 1st April 2020, 02:54 PM   #250
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Interesting that teh Trump Cultsts here want criticism of Trump to stop, but say nothing abou Trump his unceasing attacks on political opponents.
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Old 1st April 2020, 02:56 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
What's that? You think Di Blasio is stupid?

What about Nancy Pelosi? Is she stupid too?
You didn't answer my question. Nice side step.
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Old 1st April 2020, 03:12 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Basically it started being racist when it stopped being about "people coming from China" and started being about "Chinese people."

The virus wasn't checking people's passports or birth certificates.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Nope. The order did not say "Chinese people"; it said:


You're correct that the virus wasn't checking passports or birth certs which is why the order said ALL aliens coming from China. That included everyone of any race or nationality except Americans.
Sorry, but you're doing again exactly what you and others are doing with the "coronavirus...their new hoax" claim.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't give a **** about the technical wording. Save the "It's not champagne it's sparkling wine" crap.
"Technical wording" crap? It was you, not me, who brought up the importance of technical wording with "people coming from China" vs "Chinese people". So why get so hot under the collar? Could it be because I showed that you were incorrect?

Quote:
My point stands. Blocking off/restricted a geographical area during a pandemic is perfectly logical. Doing that but letting specific nationality still pass through as if the virus cares about that is not.
I have not disagreed with that at all, have I? What we disagree on was whether or not it was racist.
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Old 1st April 2020, 03:16 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
It seems that Nunes has a lot to say, and as usual it's moronic:

"Let's stop looking at the death counters and let's talk about how we can keep as many people employed as possible," Nunes told Fox anchor Laura Ingraham. "That's the key right now, Laura, because if you don't, what you said earlier is correct. When you have people staying at home, not taking care of themselves, you will end up with a hell of a lot more people dying by other causes than you will by the coronavirus."

"I mean, look, the schools were just canceled out here in California which is way overkill," he added. "It's possible kids could've went back to school in two weeks to four weeks but they just canceled the rest of the schools."
And then there was this: "If we don't start to get people back to work in this country over the next week to two weeks, I don't believe we can wait until the end of April. I just don't know of any economy that's ever survived where you unplug the entire economy and expect things to go back and be normal."

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...=342831&page=7
Nunes suffered brain damage when his oxygen was cut off by Trump's anal sphincter.


Last edited by Stacyhs; 1st April 2020 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 1st April 2020, 03:18 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
"Technical wording" crap? It was you, not me, who brought up the importance of technical wording with "people coming from China" vs "Chinese people". So why get so hot under the collar? Could it be because I showed that you were incorrect?



I have not disagreed with that at all, have I? What we disagree on was whether or not it was racist.
Did you notice that Americans could still get the virus while in China, and despite literally being "people coming from China" as they returned to the US, they were not screened or quarantined in any way? Same thing with Europeans traveling from China to the US (for a couple weeks), or Canadians traveling from China to the US, or Mexicans, or South Americans, or...well, you get the picture. The ban was exclusively for Chinese people...not people coming from China.
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Old 1st April 2020, 04:07 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Did you notice that Americans could still get the virus while in China, and despite literally being "people coming from China" as they returned to the US, they were not screened or quarantined in any way? Same thing with Europeans traveling from China to the US (for a couple weeks), or Canadians traveling from China to the US, or Mexicans, or South Americans, or...well, you get the picture. The ban was exclusively for Chinese people...not people coming from China.
No, sorry that isn't accurate. This is what the order said:

Quote:
Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry. The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the People’s Republic of China, excluding the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau, during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.
An alien is any non-US citizen so it applied to everyone, Chinese or not, who did not fall under the exemptions as stated in the order. Most of these pertained to citizens/lawful residents of the US, their spouses, children, sibling, etc. See Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.


Any of the above exceptions were screened as they entered (or supposed to be:

Quote:
Sec. 4. Orderly Medical Screening and Quarantine. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall take all necessary and appropriate steps to regulate the travel of persons and aircraft to the United States to facilitate the orderly medical screening and, where appropriate, quarantine of persons who enter the United States and who may have been exposed to the virus. Such steps may include directing air carriers to restrict and regulate the boarding of such passengers on flights to the United States.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...l-coronavirus/

In a nutshell from AP Fact Check:

Quote:
Trump’s order did not fully “close” the U.S. off to China, as he asserts. It temporarily barred entry by foreign nationals who had traveled in China within the previous 14 days, with exceptions for the immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Americans returning from China were allowed back after enhanced screening at select ports of entry and for 14 days afterward. But U.S. scientists say screenings can miss people who don’t yet show symptoms of COVID-19; while symptoms often appear within five or six days of exposure, the incubation period is 14 days.
https://apnews.com/0dc271ad7f7917374a5a0cfb49273783

Last edited by Stacyhs; 1st April 2020 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 1st April 2020, 04:17 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
There is a difference, I think, between finger pointing and accountability.
Hindsight is always 20/20.

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Old 1st April 2020, 04:20 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, sorry that isn't accurate. This is what the order said:



An alien is any non-US citizen so it applied to everyone, Chinese or not, who did not fall under the exemptions as stated in the order. Most of these pertained to citizens/lawful residents of the US, their spouses, children, sibling, etc. See Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.


Any of the above exceptions were screened as they entered (or supposed to be:


https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...l-coronavirus/

In a nutshell from AP Fact Check:


https://apnews.com/0dc271ad7f7917374a5a0cfb49273783
So we are in agreement that the ban did not apply to "people coming from China" as US citizens, their relatives, etc coming from China were "people coming from China". Glad we cleared that up.
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Old 1st April 2020, 04:34 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
So we are in agreement that the ban did not apply to "people coming from China" as US citizens, their relatives, etc coming from China were "people coming from China". Glad we cleared that up.
What part of "all aliens" and "exemptions" do you not understand? Maybe this will help:

a·li·en
adjective
belonging to a foreign country or nation

ex·emp·tion
noun: exemption; plural noun: exemptions

the process of freeing or state of being free from an obligation or liability imposed on others


Do you want to claim that "aliens" do not include people of all nationalities other than the US? Do you see any exclusions for Germans, Swiss, Canadians or any other nationals who may have been in China?

I'm happy to engage in an honest and sincere discussion but if you'd rather not as indicated by your comment, I'll bow out.
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Old 1st April 2020, 04:49 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Hindsight is always 20/20.

Chris B.


Except that Trump didn't need "hindsight". He had the entire intelligence apparatus of the United States at his disposal. And we know for a fact that they were warning him back in January that this was going to be a problem.

And he chose to ignore that.

He chose to ignore that.


HE chose to ignore that.


And of course, you will chose to ignore this, won't you? No accountability, no responsibility, 10/10, "perfect" response, why do you hate America?
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Old 1st April 2020, 05:44 PM   #260
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Here's a headline from townhall.com tonight:

"FLASHBACK: Remember When the Mainstream Media Compared the Wuhan Coronavirus to the Flu?"

It gave examples of the media comparing coronavirus to the flu.


The author seemed to think he had a point.
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Old 1st April 2020, 05:58 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Here's a headline from townhall.com tonight:

"FLASHBACK: Remember When the Mainstream Media Compared the Wuhan Coronavirus to the Flu?"

It gave examples of the media comparing coronavirus to the flu.


The author seemed to think he had a point.
I guess this proves that they're just Fake News?

Didn't Trump say:

Quote:
“You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that would have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
Quote:
You call it a germ, you can call it a flu, you can call it a virus. You know, you can call it many different names.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:13 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What part of "all aliens" and "exemptions" do you not understand? Maybe this will help:

a·li·en
adjective
belonging to a foreign country or nation

ex·emp·tion
noun: exemption; plural noun: exemptions

the process of freeing or state of being free from an obligation or liability imposed on others


Do you want to claim that "aliens" do not include people of all nationalities other than the US? Do you see any exclusions for Germans, Swiss, Canadians or any other nationals who may have been in China?

I'm happy to engage in an honest and sincere discussion but if you'd rather not as indicated by your comment, I'll bow out.
As we all agree that American citizens were not prevented from traveling to the US from China, I'm not sure what your complaint is. If American citizens traveling from China are not banned, then the ban is not against "people coming from China." Your nitpicking notwithstanding, the virus entered the US by way of an American citizen who was not banned, screened, or quarantined. He wasn't symptomatic, he went to get a screening after hearing about a health alert.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:35 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
As we all agree that American citizens were not prevented from traveling to the US from China, I'm not sure what your complaint is. If American citizens traveling from China are not banned, then the ban is not against "people coming from China." Your nitpicking notwithstanding, the virus entered the US by way of an American citizen who was not banned, screened, or quarantined. He wasn't symptomatic, he went to get a screening after hearing about a health alert.
What you call 'nitpicking' is being accurate and countering a false claim that Trump's ban was 'racist' because it was directed only at Chinese.

If one has the ability to comprehend what the actual order says and to put their bias blinders aside, it's clear that it was not directed only at the Chinese, but at any "alien" traveling from China to the US. The only exemptions were for US citizens/legal residents and their families and those specifically invited into the US like experts.

As for how the virus first came to the US is not known. The first diagnosed case was the man you refer to in your link. That does not mean he brought it into the country first. Many people who test positive and are contagious are asymptomatic. They are never diagnosed with the virus.

Additionally, you are assuming he was "American" when the link says nothing about his nationality, but it does say he was "visiting family in China". The chances are he was Chinese who may or may not have been a US citizen. I live in an area where there are a huge amount of Chinese nationals working in the high tech industry and a Chinese owned plant.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:40 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What you call 'nitpicking' is being accurate and countering a false claim that Trump's ban was 'racist' because it was directed only at Chinese.
The fact that it hit people who were not Chinese does not mean it wasn't directed at Chinese.


But this is all completely silly anyway. Who cares if it was racist? The point is that it wasn't effective, because there were lots of people who were in Wuhan, but were allowed to return without quarantine or isolation.

It seems reasonable to ask why American citizens were treated differently than foreign nationals, but that's really a secondary consideration. The fact is that the much touted travel restrictions had big, gaping, holes in them.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:43 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Here's a headline from townhall.com tonight:

"FLASHBACK: Remember When the Mainstream Media Compared the Wuhan Coronavirus to the Flu?"

It gave examples of the media comparing coronavirus to the flu.


The author seemed to think he had a point.
He does have a point.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:55 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The fact that it hit people who were not Chinese does not mean it wasn't directed at Chinese.


But this is all completely silly anyway. Who cares if it was racist? The point is that it wasn't effective, because there were lots of people who were in Wuhan, but were allowed to return without quarantine or isolation.

It seems reasonable to ask why American citizens were treated differently than foreign nationals, but that's really a secondary consideration. The fact is that the much touted travel restrictions had big, gaping, holes in them.
^^ This

Coronavirus don't care about your legal nitpicks.
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Old 1st April 2020, 06:59 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The fact that it hit people who were not Chinese does not mean it wasn't directed at Chinese.
It was directed at people who were coming from the main source of the virus. It had nothing to do with their race.
On the date of the order, China alone had about 10,000 confirmed cases while only 114 cases had been confirmed outside China spread among 122 countries. It was completely logical to target those coming in from China.
Quote:
But this is all completely silly anyway. Who cares if it was racist?

It's never silly to keep things honest. Spreading claims of racism in a case where racism was not involved is not acceptable. We rightfully rake Trump over the coals for being dishonest and lying. Why is it "silly" to call others to account for being dishonest?

Quote:
The point is that it wasn't effective, because there were lots of people who were in Wuhan, but were allowed to return without quarantine or isolation
.

How effective it was in keeping down even more contagious carriers coming into the country we cannot know. We cannot know how many more people would have been infected and/or died. Anyone returning was supposed to be screened. Whether they were or not is another topic.

Quote:
It seems reasonable to ask why American citizens were treated differently than foreign nationals, but that's really a secondary consideration. The fact is that the much touted travel restrictions had big, gaping, holes in them.
I don't think it's reasonable at all to ask why American citizens were allowed to return. I'd think the answer is obvious: because they were American citizens and they had every right to come home. Aliens had no such right. Should they have been kept in quarantine immediately until the contagious period was over? Absolutely. And if they weren't, then that was one big, gaping inexcusable hole. But does that mean Trump wasn't right to restrict others from China coming in? I don't think so.
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Old 1st April 2020, 07:05 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
^^ This

Coronavirus don't care about your legal nitpicks.
Exactly what have I said that is a 'legal' nitpick? Identify it.
It's fact vs non-fact, truth vs non-truth.

The fact is, I've been able to counter every single one of the false claims that have been made with evidence by quoting the actual order. In response, I get accusations of "nitpicking". Why? Because no one has anything else. Take off the political blinders that require every accusation against Trump to be supported. That is what we who detest Trump accuse his supporters of doing. I will not do the same because that makes me no better than them. There is enough to condemn Trump for that has merit. This ain't one of them.
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Old 1st April 2020, 07:41 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Exactly what have I said that is a 'legal' nitpick? Identify it.
It's fact vs non-fact, truth vs non-truth.

The fact is, I've been able to counter every single one of the false claims that have been made with evidence by quoting the actual order. In response, I get accusations of "nitpicking". Why? Because no one has anything else. Take off the political blinders that require every accusation against Trump to be supported. That is what we who detest Trump accuse his supporters of doing. I will not do the same because that makes me no better than them. There is enough to condemn Trump for that has merit. This ain't one of them.
OK, one last time.

NOBODY. CARES.

You may be right, you may be wrong.

But NOBODY. CARES.

Certainly the virus doesn't care either.

It's entirely irrelevant how right you are. Or how much "truth" you have. Seriously, give your blood-pressure a day off.
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:15 PM   #270
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
OK, one last time.

NOBODY. CARES.

You may be right, you may be wrong.

But NOBODY. CARES.

Certainly the virus doesn't care either.

It's entirely irrelevant how right you are. Or how much "truth" you have. Seriously, give your blood-pressure a day off.
Ah, yes....and yet you still replied and claimed my posts were "legal " nitpicks. Seems to me that the 'NOBODY. CARES.' retort is a last refuge because you can't identify anything I've said as a 'legal' nitpick. Nor can you counter my arguments. Sorry if you can't handle being wrong.

Seriously, take off your political blinders.
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Old 1st April 2020, 08:21 PM   #271
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uhh-aaaaaaahh-coughcoughcoughcoughcoughuuuhhhurlhmaghtryn*%^$#@* !?:{*@~>"<+(&$mnmnghaa-aaak****forgodamnitttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt ttt!!!
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Old 2nd April 2020, 05:55 AM   #272
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's never silly to keep things honest.
It is frequently silly to keep things honest, when "keeping things honest" means focusing on something insignificant.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 07:01 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Hindsight is always 20/20.

Chris B.
Foresight is presidential.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 07:43 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Foresight is presidential.
Exactly.

And hindsight is NOT 20/20.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 07:45 AM   #275
kookbreaker
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Exactly.

And hindsight is NOT 20/20.
Especially not with this President.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 08:36 AM   #276
Darat
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Hindsight is always 20/20.

Chris B.

It’s not for Trump!
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Old 2nd April 2020, 08:38 AM   #277
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Is there an extra GOTO line here?
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Old 2nd April 2020, 08:53 AM   #278
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Hello world
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Old 2nd April 2020, 09:40 AM   #279
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Hindsight is "I did everything perfect" to Trump. Doesn't matter what actually did happen.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 2nd April 2020, 09:48 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Hindsight is "I did everything perfect" to Trump. Doesn't matter what actually did happen.
And if it isn't perfect, it's all Obama's fault.
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