Cont: 2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part IV

wareyin said:
Wait, I thought you were able to sell Sanders to the people who have been primed for decades to automatically scream "socialism" when they hear his name. Now you don't do sales?
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I don't misrepresent my opinion in the cause of political expediency. That was the point.

That I don't work in sales was literal.
I keep asking this question, but haven't had an answer yet. How do you think criticizing the only guy in Trump's way will play out? When there are only 2 choices, it is binary. There is absolutely no chance that it will not be Trump or Biden.
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Biden is old as dirt, there is a society altering pandemic, and the convention is months away.

Absolutely no chance is wildly overselling it.
 
Suddenly said:
I don't misrepresent my opinion in the cause of political expediency. That was the point.

That I don't work in sales was literal.

Biden is old as dirt, there is a society altering pandemic, and the convention is months away.

Absolutely no chance is wildly overselling it.
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Given that every candidate other than Beto was old as dirt, and Sanders is older and has heart problems, why is Biden's age a disqualifier?

And that didn't answer the question. How do you think criticism of Biden will work to further your goals, political or otherwise?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Ok, I'll put my skeptic hat on. There's no way for me to know the state of Biden's brain. But anyone can notice that he has been given several rambling, incoherent statements in the last few months. The cause of these repeated lapses of coherence is not known. For someone in a career where public speaking is an important element of the job, this seems significant.
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Here we are in the midst of a pandemic. Biden is way ahead in the delegate count to the point of being a shoo-in. There might not even be a convention. What do you propose as to how the DNC should proceed NOW.
 
theprestige said:
Now it seems that many Democrat and democratic-leaning voters were really hoping for a New York bagel with cream cheese and lox. If that's not on the menu, they'd rather have a **** sandwich instead.

Why are voters so weird?
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That's a YUUUUUGE stretch based on a few noisy posters on an obscure board in a non-skeptic subforum.
 
wareyin said:
How do you think criticism of Biden will work to further your goals, political or otherwise?
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I've heard this several times in relation to one candidate or another, and I'm taken aback every time. I'm here to comment on reality as I see it, not to be in campaign mode. Not only do I not wish to be in campaign mode, I discount posters who impress me as being in campaign mode, because they're more apt to be reciting talking points or otherwise full of bs.

The day I become a DNC spokesman, I assure you I will be in campaign mode.
 
varwoche said:
I've heard this several times in relation to one candidate or another, and I'm taken aback every time. I'm here to comment on reality as I see it, not to be in campaign mode. Not only do I not wish to be in campaign mode, I discount posters who impress me as being in campaign mode, because they're more apt to be reciting talking points or otherwise full of bs.

The day I become a DNC spokesman, I assure you I will be in campaign mode.
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The time for honesty and conviction is always some indeterminate time in the future.
 
SezMe said:
Here we are in the midst of a pandemic. Biden is way ahead in the delegate count to the point of being a shoo-in. There might not even be a convention. What do you propose as to how the DNC should proceed NOW.
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I have no idea. The allure of Biden is a complete mystery to me.

I have no idea how they are going to deal with the circus Trump is going to fire up soon for the general election. Between the fail-son getting nepotism gigs, cringey videos of Biden nuzzling children, and the totally unexplored sexual assault allegation, it's going to be an absolute field day. I hope they have an effective response to this, because anyone with eyes has seen Biden's many faults coming over the horizon for over a year now.
 
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varwoche said:
I've heard this several times in relation to one candidate or another, and I'm taken aback every time. I'm here to comment on reality as I see it, not to be in campaign mode. Not only do I not wish to be in campaign mode, I discount posters who impress me as being in campaign mode, because they're more apt to be reciting talking points or otherwise full of bs.

The day I become a DNC spokesman, I assure you I will be in campaign mode.
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Ok. That's nice and all, but reality (whether you can see it or not) is that there are 2 candidates. Picking nits off one candidate will do what for you?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I have no idea. The allure of Biden is a complete mystery to me.

I have no idea how they are going to deal with the circus Trump is going to fire up soon for the general election. Between the fail-son getting nepotism gigs,
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Ahem. Jared. Fail-son-in-law getting nepotism gigs and totally screwing this country in the process. Yeah, Hunter with a no consequence job on a board of directors is so much worse. Again with the complete naivete. The children of politicians of all stripes in all countries, rich people, powerful people, actors, musicians, etc tend to get cushy jobs. This is not news to anyone.

SuburbanTurkey said:
videos of Biden nuzzling children,
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Ahem, Trump bragged on nationally syndicated radio about barging in on underage girls in dressing rooms because he owned the building. He spoke sexually about his own daughter while she was 15/16 at the time.

SuburbanTurkey said:
and the totally unexplored sexual assault allegation,
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Ahem, 27 (iirc) sexual assault charges against Trump, one in which he is ignoring court orders to supply a DNA sample.
And as far as I can tell, that sexual assault allegation is being explored but given the wildly different stories the alleged victim has told, she's not looking very credible. We've had too many James O'Keefes and Jacob Wohls manufacturing transparently false scandals recently, so when it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I need more proof that it's really a Boeing 747.

SuburbanTurkey said:
it's going to be an absolute field day. I hope they have an effective response to this, because anyone with eyes has seen Biden's many faults coming over the horizon for over a year now.
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I'm sorry. Biden will never be able to overcome his real fault to some people: That he isn't Sanders. We people on planet Earth aren't perfect, but screaming bloody murder because someone jaywalked so they're worse than the other guy who is a serial murderer only gets you the serial murderer. And just imagine, if the magical lost tribe of the left had materialized and voted Sanders in, how easy his faults would be for the Republicans to run with. But because he never wins, never advances to a stage where anyone goes negative against him, he still looks perfect in the eyes of his naive followers.
 
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wareyin said:
Given that every candidate other than Beto was old as dirt, and Sanders is older and has heart problems, why is Biden's age a disqualifier?
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The context there is that it isn't 100% given he will be the nominee. This has nothing to do with disqualification. His being older makes him more vulnerable to health problems, especially now.
And that didn't answer the question. How do you think criticism of Biden will work to further your goals, political or otherwise?
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I did answer that. I'm not trying to further goals. I am stating an opinion on a message board; not trying to use this forum to further my own agenda.

How do you think criticizing and accusing of being a traitor to the cause those that express a negative opinion of Biden is furthering your goals, political or otherwise?
 
The Bidenistas' claims that it was already all over for a while now have been inaccurate all along with not even half of the points assigned yet, but there is good reason to quit now anyway: it legitimizes the idea of cancelling all remaining primaries/caucuses, which is a good idea medically regardless of politics, and it eliminates the potential for conflict between campaign activities and medical advice. It's also consistent with what Bernie's been doing for a while anyway, working on the medical situation rather than the campaign.
 
wareyin said:
Ok. That's nice and all, but reality (whether you can see it or not) is that there are 2 candidates. Picking nits off one candidate will do what for you?
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Ignoring the "nits" ... I like to think it helps us see/understand reality.
 
Suddenly said:
The context there is that it isn't 100% given he will be the nominee. This has nothing to do with disqualification. His being older makes him more vulnerable to health problems, especially now.
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Biden is now the nominee.

Suddenly said:
I did answer that. I'm not trying to further goals. I am stating an opinion on a message board; not trying to use this forum to further my own agenda.

How do you think criticizing and accusing of being a traitor to the cause those that express a negative opinion of Biden is furthering your goals, political or otherwise?
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I thought I was explaining to those who weren't thinking the process through that damaging the prospects of the better candidate improves the prospects of the worse candidate. It seems so basic to me, but there are clearly several who would rather go on and on and on about (to get biblical here) the mote in Biden's eye while ignoring the plank in Trump's eye. Being a "traitor to the cause" would involve understanding the result of their actions and choosing to do them anyway. I spent so much effort explaining and trying to make people think about the result of their actions because I don't believe they do understand them.
 
The Bidenistas' claims that it was already all over for a while now have been inaccurate all along with not even half of the points assigned yet, but there is good reason to quit now anyway: it legitimizes the idea of cancelling all remaining primaries/caucuses (even practically forces their cancellation), which is a good idea medically regardless of politics, and it eliminates the potential for conflict between campaign activities and medical advice. It's also consistent with what Bernie's been doing for a while anyway, working on the medical situation rather than the campaign.
 
Delvo said:
The Bidenistas' claims that it was already all over for a while now have been inaccurate all along with not even half of the points assigned yet, but there is good reason to quit now anyway: it legitimizes the idea of cancelling all remaining primaries/caucuses (even practically forces their cancellation), which is a good idea medically regardless of politics, and it eliminates the potential for conflict between campaign activities and medical advice. It's also consistent with what Bernie's been doing for a while anyway, working on the medical situation rather than the campaign.
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"For the greater medical good", I would agree with that.
 
varwoche said:
Ignoring the "nits" ... I like to think it helps us see/understand reality.
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both sides are bad but wow Biden is a horrible person doesn't do much to help see/understand/or represent reality. Rather it distorts the issues. Going back to the 2016 election again, mainstream journalists spent a lot of time covering Clinton's emails. Such constant harping about what was in reality not criminal or unusual left a lot of people with the impression that it was criminal and unprecedented. Can we not learn from the mistakes of the recent past?
 
Delvo said:
The Bidenistas' claims that it was already all over for a while now have been inaccurate all along with not even half of the points assigned yet, but there is good reason to quit now anyway: it legitimizes the idea of cancelling all remaining primaries/caucuses (even practically forces their cancellation), which is a good idea medically regardless of politics, and it eliminates the potential for conflict between campaign activities and medical advice. It's also consistent with what Bernie's been doing for a while anyway, working on the medical situation rather than the campaign.
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It has been over even with less than half the delegates assigned. It isnt like a super bowl where the team can put up 31 unanswered points starting in the third quarter. Making up delegate deficits require progressively higher and higher poll margins that are simply unrealistic.
 
Delvo said:
The Bidenistas' claims that it was already all over for a while now have been inaccurate all along with not even half of the points assigned yet, but there is good reason to quit now anyway: it legitimizes the idea of cancelling all remaining primaries/caucuses (even practically forces their cancellation), which is a good idea medically regardless of politics, and it eliminates the potential for conflict between campaign activities and medical advice. It's also consistent with what Bernie's been doing for a while anyway, working on the medical situation rather than the campaign.
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:thumbsup:
 
BobTheCoward said:
It isnt like a super bowl where the team can put up 31 unanswered points starting in the third quarter. Making up delegate deficits require progressively higher and higher poll margins that are simply unrealistic.
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It would only have taken 60%... but Bernie's campaign has been no Kansas City Chiefs.
 
Delvo said:
The Bidenistas' claims that it was already all over for a while now have been inaccurate all along with not even half of the points assigned yet, but there is good reason to quit now anyway: it legitimizes the idea of cancelling all remaining primaries/caucuses (even practically forces their cancellation), which is a good idea medically regardless of politics, and it eliminates the potential for conflict between campaign activities and medical advice. It's also consistent with what Bernie's been doing for a while anyway, working on the medical situation rather than the campaign.
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Can you support your claim that is hasn't been all over for a while now? What chance did Sanders have, say 2 weeks ago that he didn't have today? 3 weeks? How long "is a while now"? What even changed between yesterday and today with regard to Sander's campaign? So far as I know, no results have been announced from Wisconsin. Were Sanders concerned about the medical situation, why didn't he drop out before all those crowds were forced to go stand in line to vote?
 
Oh good now the "DNC is out to get Sanders, he's still our God-King" can move from the subtext into the text.
 
That was a close one.

Billionaire media owners, billionaire capitalists and the corporations they own can sleep much more easily in their beds tonight knowing that, as is right and proper, the US is owned by and managed for and on behalf of the very, very rich.


Just hang there, for a little while, US, and we'll catch up no doubt, once Boris has shaken off his inconvenient illness.
 
Excellent news! Obviously Bernie's programme is way better than Biden's but what can you do. The main focus should totally be in defeating that disgusting, dangerous person in the White House. And hopefully after it, the radicalized, fanatical, anti-science and anti-reason party behind that scoundrel.
 
llwyd said:
Excellent news! Obviously Bernie's programme is way better than Biden's but what can you do. The main focus should totally be in defeating that disgusting, dangerous person in the White House. And hopefully after it, the radicalized, fanatical, anti-science and anti-reason party behind that scoundrel.
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Bill Hicks:

"Wait a minute! There's one guy holding up both puppets!"
 
wareyin said:
Ahem. Jared. Fail-son-in-law getting nepotism gigs and totally screwing this country in the process. Yeah, Hunter with a no consequence job on a board of directors is so much worse. Again with the complete naivete. The children of politicians of all stripes in all countries, rich people, powerful people, actors, musicians, etc tend to get cushy jobs. This is not news to anyone.


Ahem, Trump bragged on nationally syndicated radio about barging in on underage girls in dressing rooms because he owned the building. He spoke sexually about his own daughter while she was 15/16 at the time.


Ahem, 27 (iirc) sexual assault charges against Trump, one in which he is ignoring court orders to supply a DNA sample.
And as far as I can tell, that sexual assault allegation is being explored but given the wildly different stories the alleged victim has told, she's not looking very credible. We've had too many James O'Keefes and Jacob Wohls manufacturing transparently false scandals recently, so when it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I need more proof that it's really a Boeing 747.



I'm sorry. Biden will never be able to overcome his real fault to some people: That he isn't Sanders. We people on planet Earth aren't perfect, but screaming bloody murder because someone jaywalked so they're worse than the other guy who is a serial murderer only gets you the serial murderer. And just imagine, if the magical lost tribe of the left had materialized and voted Sanders in, how easy his faults would be for the Republicans to run with. But because he never wins, never advances to a stage where anyone goes negative against him, he still looks perfect in the eyes of his naive followers.
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I mean, sure, Trump has worse scandals by the score and voters didn't care. It's an absurd double standard, but that's reality. The hillary emails things was an anchor around her neck while every day brought new dirt on Trump that didn't seem to hurt him.

I fully expect a similar dynamic to play out again. Trump's many failures are already priced in. Biden is going to go reeling from scandal to scandal.
 
If Biden flops, it's going to be a bit harder to blame Sanders this time around. But I'm confident the party will find a way.
 
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