ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags police incidents , police misconduct charges , racism incidents

Reply
Old 19th May 2020, 10:42 AM   #41
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,227
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
None of that makes any sense. I did like the product placement for Sony and Lexus, though.
The reason it doesn't make any sense is because the article in the OP is crap. There's way more information out there along with video and statements form the cops.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:44 AM   #42
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 49,104
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I'd say the number of people who get any teeth broken when buying a tv is vanishingly small.
And if most of them are black does it become racist then?

If it wasn't race related why did these cops go nuts on this family and beat them?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:50 AM   #43
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 4,460
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The reason it doesn't make any sense is because the article in the OP is crap. There's way more information out there along with video and statements form the cops.
Yes, I did a few Google searches on the incident and there is much better information out there. Just one example:

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...2978b49b0.html
__________________
I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:52 AM   #44
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Ah. I misunderstood. I thought you meant the event in question did not take place during a purchase, but you meant the event was not an assault. Got it now.
The assault did not take place during a purchase. Did you even read the thread before posting?

Hell, did you even read the OP, at least?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:54 AM   #45
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Yes, I did a few Google searches on the incident and there is much better information out there. Just one example:

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...2978b49b0.html
Unfortunately that article requires me to both turn off adblock *and* fill out a survey.

This thread is easily 50% The Media Is Not Your Friend: Part #534698765e6q64 In An Ongoing Series
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:54 AM   #46
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,812
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
That is surprising. I wonder what kind of car they brought on their second trip.
The same car. If you'd read even the OP, you'd have seen that the TV wasn't the only thing purchased on the first trip.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:55 AM   #47
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And if most of them are black does it become racist then?

If it wasn't race related why did these cops go nuts on this family and beat them?
ACAB?

Misunderstanding?

The customers were actually wrong?

The possibilities aren't endless, but they do extend a lot further than knee-jerk "cops are racists" bigotry.

Last edited by theprestige; 19th May 2020 at 10:58 AM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:58 AM   #48
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The same car. If you'd read even the OP, you'd have seen that the TV wasn't the only thing purchased on the first trip.
Heh. I read the OP but missed that bit. I should have known that it was the same car, since they didn't bother to list the make, model, and model year again.

Anyway, I apologize to everyone I took to task for not reading the OP. Turns out my own house is glass, too.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 10:59 AM   #49
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 49,104
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
ACAB?

Misunderstanding?

The customers were actually in the wrong?

The possibilities aren't endless, but they do extend a lot further than knee-jerk "cops are racists" bigotry.
Well they resisted arrest while not having a charge to actually be arrested for so clearly that means the cops were in the right.

The cops are racist, their basic statistics prove it. I know you feel that there is never such a thing as driving while black and the police totally have reasons for stop and frisking mostly blacks and so on. As no individual incident is ever racist the totallity is not racist and those statistics are dirty liberal lies.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 11:04 AM   #50
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well they resisted arrest while not having a charge to actually be arrested for so clearly that means the cops were in the right.

The cops are racist, their basic statistics prove it. I know you feel that there is never such a thing as driving while black and the police totally have reasons for stop and frisking mostly blacks and so on. As no individual incident is ever racist the totallity is not racist and those statistics are dirty liberal lies.
Now you're just stereotyping individuals based on statistics.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 11:09 AM   #51
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 49,104
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Now you're just stereotyping individuals based on statistics.
Got it the statistics that show that black people get harrassed more treated more harshly and so on in no way show any racism and there really is no racism to speak of. It is just that cops explode into violence for no reason on a regular basis and for totally non racist reasons blacks seem to suffer these explosions more than whites but it is totally never about race. It is just that cops are senselessly violent thugs.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 11:16 AM   #52
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Got it the statistics that show that black people get harrassed more treated more harshly and so on in no way show any racism and there really is no racism to speak of. It is just that cops explode into violence for no reason on a regular basis and for totally non racist reasons blacks seem to suffer these explosions more than whites but it is totally never about race. It is just that cops are senselessly violent thugs.
You're trying to use statistics to prove that these individuals are racists. This attitude is every bit as bigoted as the attitude you're condemning.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 11:24 AM   #53
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 49,104
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You're trying to use statistics to prove that these individuals are racists. This attitude is every bit as bigoted as the attitude you're condemning.
Not at all, everyone is racist because race colors everyones perceptions constantly. I know there is clearly nothing racist about shooting a black man because his blackness makes him more threatening that a white man in the same situation because it was not someone saying "I'm going to kill a black man" and that is the only kind of killing that can ever be racist in your book.

I know you hate the police so much that you don't think they even need a reason to go crazy and beat the crap out of someone, but why is that so much better than bringing up that these massive over reactions seem to effect different races highly disproportionately?

Everyone is racist the goal is to be less racist, and this situation comes across as pretty damn racist.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 11:34 AM   #54
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 35,928
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Why would police arrest a guy hundreds of times for tresspassing while at work? That makes no sense clearly there must be some mysterious totally non racist explanation for everything in this case too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...rently/385874/
OMFG! Everyone should read that! And every officer involved should be in prison!
__________________
"Shemp, you are the one fixed point in an ever-changing universe." - Beady
"I don't want to live in a world without shemp." - Quarky
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 11:39 AM   #55
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 35,928
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The reason it doesn't make any sense is because the article in the OP is crap. There's way more information out there along with video and statements form the cops.
Would you care to provide some links?
__________________
"Shemp, you are the one fixed point in an ever-changing universe." - Beady
"I don't want to live in a world without shemp." - Quarky
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 11:46 AM   #56
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 49,104
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
OMFG! Everyone should read that! And every officer involved should be in prison!
Ah but the harassment could be for some reason other than race possibly, so we can't condemn it as racism.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 12:49 PM   #57
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 18,017
Everything else is preamble. The actual incident happened at the return counter. I bet we never hear from any other witness or see a video of the start of things there.

It's media grandstanding by the plaintiff' lawyer in a civil suit. Or do you think there are journalists waiting at the court house and reviewing every civil suit that gets filed?
__________________
Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 01:22 PM   #58
rockinkt
Graduate Poster
 
rockinkt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,672
The police and the plaintiffs seem to agree on these points:

1. The police knew the licence number of the vehicle the suspect drove and got a good look at him. They therefore knew who the suspect was and could ID him and his address.

2. The Store had CCTV so again the ID of the suspect was no problem. The store would also have all the necessary ID info like name and address.

3. The store could easily and immediately provide information on whether the TV was stolen or not.

4. The TV was returned to the suspect by the police the next day. In other words - turns out it was not stolen.

Sounds like a job for one cop. Not necessarily the best cop you got - just a cop who could see well enough to read (a grade 8 level would be all that was required to read a receipt and check serial numbers) and ask a couple of questions.

The mere fact that 4 cops were involved indicates to me that they were wanting trouble. Not because they expected that the suspect and his mother would cause trouble - it's just that the cops wanted to exert a lot of force on someone and were well aware that they could provoke a response and use a lot of force. Fun times. Gang mentality.

As a former cop - these things make me want to vomit. Police brutality planned and carried out. Again - when you think your only tool is a hammer everything begins to look like a nail.
__________________
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." Steve Earle

"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt

Last edited by rockinkt; 19th May 2020 at 01:26 PM.
rockinkt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 01:55 PM   #59
Porkpie Hat
Critical Thinker
 
Porkpie Hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A police officer patrolling a supermarket parking lot in Missouri and accusing a black man of stealing the TV he's putting into his car makes some sense, but that just might be my bias talking.

Returning the TV to the store, out of protest over the cop, when the store took your side, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You've got the TV, why not keep it? "Every time I turn on that TV, I'll remember how badly you were treated in the Sam's Club parking lot. I can't enjoy it now. Better return it." I guess?

Four cops hanging out at the Sam's Club returns counter, waiting to throw a beating at the first black man to show up returning a TV, makes no sense at all. I assume the grievance claimed in the lawsuit is legitimate, but there seems to be a YUGE chunk of context missing from the story.

At least, that's the way it seems to me, as I read the story on my Apple® MacBook Pro™ 15", while sipping the Folger's® Classic Roast™ coffee I brewed in my Mr. Coffee® Optimal Brew™ 10-Cup Programmable Coffee Maker with Thermal Carafe from my Kleen Kanteen® HydroFlask™, over my Xfinity® Performance Starter+™ high-speed Internet connection.
Subtle?

The fact is this happened and the known facts of the case are not in favor of the alleged law abidingness of everyone in this situation except the black guy and his soon to be 65" richer mama.

Me thinks you're overplaying your bias and gene pool.

I can't actually think like a black American but I can by way of current events and history see why their behavior may not always meet my lily white expectations.

That's just me though. Finding excuses for what passes for bad behavior....like being too honest while black.
Porkpie Hat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 01:59 PM   #60
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 14,667
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'd like to see this as a horrible misunderstanding, with everyone trying to do the right thing, and somehow ******* it all up horribly.

For some versions of "doing the right thing"?

I guess you think throwing a 68 year old woman to the ground and smashing three of her 43 year old son's teeth is "doing the right thing"

Of course, I forgot, they're black, so itsOK. Nothing to see here folks!
__________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Randy Bryce, U.S. Army veteran

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:04 PM   #61
Porkpie Hat
Critical Thinker
 
Porkpie Hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Still doesn't make a lot of sense.
How about cops aren't always eating doughnuts?

Seriously. I mean if two black people trying to return a TV they legit paid for isn't enough reason for a beating, what is?

Maybe they were dealing crack to other customers while waiting?

I'd rather err on the side of humanity I guess and we've seen what stands for humanity in much of rural and southern US so I'd I think I'll stick with the guy and his ma.
Porkpie Hat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:06 PM   #62
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,248
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The first thing that came to my mind is that a 65in TV couldn’t fit in a Lexus SUV? I was able to fit a 75in one in my smaller Subaru SUV.
LOL. Same here. My 65" LG TV fit in the back of my wife's 10-year-old Lexus, the smallest model they make. Maybe this lady has one of the newer mini-SUV Lexus crossover thingies -- NX?
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:08 PM   #63
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 14,667
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Would you care to provide some links?
You can't provide links to stuff you are making up and pulling out of your arse!
__________________
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Randy Bryce, U.S. Army veteran

If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:13 PM   #64
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by Porkpie Hat View Post
Subtle?
Huh?

Quote:
The fact is this happened and the known facts of the case are not in favor of the alleged law abidingness of everyone in this situation except the black guy and his soon to be 65" richer mama.
Leaving the begged question of "known facts" aside, I did not and am not challenging the alleged bad behavior of the cops. Indeed, like I said:

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I assume the grievance claimed in the lawsuit is legitimate, but there seems to be a YUGE chunk of context missing from the story.
So you seem to be attacking me over something I never did.

Quote:
Me thinks you're overplaying your bias and gene pool.
This got really personal and racist really fast. What is your problem with me?

Quote:
I can't actually think like a black American but I can by way of current events and history see why their behavior may not always meet my lily white expectations.

That's just me though. Finding excuses for what passes for bad behavior....like being too honest while black.
I'm glad you feel your self-righteousness is working well for you, but what does any of this have to do with the story or the discussion? I think you're actually the first person to raise the question of the victim's behavior or honesty. Did you mean to be having this slapfight in another thread, with another member, about some other incident entirely?

Last edited by theprestige; 19th May 2020 at 02:14 PM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:18 PM   #65
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
For some versions of "doing the right thing"?

I guess you think throwing a 68 year old woman to the ground and smashing three of her 43 year old son's teeth is "doing the right thing"

Of course, I forgot, they're black, so itsOK. Nothing to see here folks!
That's pretty dishonest, smartcooky. Why don't you quote the next two sentences in that post, and tell the truth?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:19 PM   #66
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You can't provide links to stuff you are making up and pulling out of your arse!
More to the point, it's not Stout's job to do shemp's homework.

If shemp's sources are crap, that's up to shemp to fix. If he wants to. Or can.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:20 PM   #67
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,812
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
LOL. Same here. My 65" LG TV fit in the back of my wife's 10-year-old Lexus, the smallest model they make. Maybe this lady has one of the newer mini-SUV Lexus crossover thingies -- NX?
As noted right in the OP (and by me later), they bought other things at the store. Given the bulk nature of the store, filling the car enough so that a giant TV won't fit would be pretty easy.

Also, what's the point of doubting that part of the story in the first place?
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:27 PM   #68
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,227
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You can't provide links to stuff you are making up and pulling out of your arse!
Were you[ planning on making an argument that now other, more complete sources for this story exist or are you just being too lazy to go look for yourself ?
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:31 PM   #69
Skeptic Tank
Trigger Warning
 
Skeptic Tank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,844
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well they resisted arrest while not having a charge to actually be arrested for so clearly that means the cops were in the right.

The cops are racist, their basic statistics prove it. I know you feel that there is never such a thing as driving while black and the police totally have reasons for stop and frisking mostly blacks and so on. As no individual incident is ever racist the totallity is not racist and those statistics are dirty liberal lies.
The statistics either prove that, or the other thing.
Skeptic Tank is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:32 PM   #70
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 4,460
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Also, what's the point of doubting that part of the story in the first place?
Why not? It's not like we were solving the world's problems or discussing profound life-changing topics in this thread. A discussion about the relative TV carrying capabilities of different SUVs is as good a digression as any.
__________________
I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:36 PM   #71
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,719
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This attitude is every bit as bigoted as the attitude it condemns.
Jeez, nobody exaggerates in threads like this.....

I was getting in before “nearly all blacks are criminal thugs“ posters.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:37 PM   #72
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,248
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
As noted right in the OP (and by me later), they bought other things at the store. Given the bulk nature of the store, filling the car enough so that a giant TV won't fit would be pretty easy.

Also, what's the point of doubting that part of the story in the first place?
I'm not doubting anything. It just "came to mind" as lionking said. I literally have the same make of car and the same measurement of TV, and it worked. If anything, this story makes me even more likely to keep the old Lexus, which has 120,000 miles on it and still runs great. Maybe the 2018 models got smaller in the back.

There are a zillion details about this story that have yet to be filled in from the OP. I have no idea what really happened here. Four cops just happened to be at the Costco Sam's Club return desk for no reason? Maybe they were having cheap hot dogs for lunch?

ETA - Fixed. I read one of the comments here with the word "Costco" in it and my mind went to the wrong store. I don't even know whether Sam's Club has hot dogs.

Last edited by carlitos; 19th May 2020 at 03:23 PM.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:41 PM   #73
Skeptic Tank
Trigger Warning
 
Skeptic Tank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,844
Originally Posted by Porkpie Hat View Post
How about cops aren't always eating doughnuts?

Seriously. I mean if two black people trying to return a TV they legit paid for isn't enough reason for a beating, what is?

Maybe they were dealing crack to other customers while waiting?

I'd rather err on the side of humanity I guess and we've seen what stands for humanity in much of rural and southern US so I'd I think I'll stick with the guy and his ma.
Thing is, if you could see a video of this incident, start to finish - and a video of every other incident like this which happens, you'd eventually be reacting to a story like this with an attitude of "only black people could manage to turn a TV return into a beating by cops"

Why? Because it's entirely true. The confrontational attitude, the anger, the yelling, the getting in people's faces, the belligerence, the unreasonable approach, the "not taking yes for an answer", the threatening, the incredibly poor reaction to coming up against any sort of store policy, etc. and on and on.

White people see an eye-grabbing headline "black man beaten by cops in checkout line at Target!" or something, and they are aghast because they mentally project themselves and how they interact with people into that scenario and they cannot possibly imagine how it would come to such an outcome.

The missing ingredient? Blackness.
Skeptic Tank is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:48 PM   #74
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 16,408
Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Thing is, if you could see a video of this incident, start to finish - and a video of every other incident like this which happens, you'd eventually be reacting to a story like this with an attitude of "only black people could manage to turn a TV return into a beating by cops"

Why? Because it's entirely true. The confrontational attitude, the anger, the yelling, the getting in people's faces, the belligerence, the unreasonable approach, the "not taking yes for an answer", the threatening, the incredibly poor reaction to coming up against any sort of store policy, etc. and on and on.

White people see an eye-grabbing headline "black man beaten by cops in checkout line at Target!" or something, and they are aghast because they mentally project themselves and how they interact with people into that scenario and they cannot possibly imagine how it would come to such an outcome.

Oh, then that must be why the man was being arrested for disorderly conduct, making threats, trespassing after being asked to leave, assault, disturbing the peace...

But, hey look, no, he wasn't. "Resisting arrest." Huh. You'd almost think the store security video of the episode actually won't show any of those things.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 02:59 PM   #75
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Also, what's the point of doubting that part of the story in the first place?
Seriously. I don't doubt any part of the story.

All I want to know is, what the hell happened between "we went to return the TV" and "four cops beat the crap out of us at the returns counter".

And also, while I don't doubt they returned it, I am kinda curious why.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 20th May 2020 at 09:46 AM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 03:01 PM   #76
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Thing is, if you could see a video of this incident, start to finish - and a video of every other incident like this which happens, you'd eventually be reacting to a story like this with an attitude of "only black people could manage to turn a TV return into a beating by cops"

Why? Because it's entirely true. The confrontational attitude, the anger, the yelling, the getting in people's faces, the belligerence, the unreasonable approach, the "not taking yes for an answer", the threatening, the incredibly poor reaction to coming up against any sort of store policy, etc. and on and on.

White people see an eye-grabbing headline "black man beaten by cops in checkout line at Target!" or something, and they are aghast because they mentally project themselves and how they interact with people into that scenario and they cannot possibly imagine how it would come to such an outcome.

The missing ingredient? Blackness.
Porkpie Hat, I think this is the argument you're looking for. Please leave me out, though. I want no piece of this.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 03:08 PM   #77
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,227
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
All I want to know is, what the hell happened between "we went to return the TV" and "four cops beat the crap out of us at the returns counter".

[/i]
If you believe the cops...

Sam's Club said the TV was stolen so cops tried to arrest Derek. Derek resisted and attempted to use a fire extinguisher as a weapon against the cops. Mavia went ballistic and got physical with the cops. The cops called in more cops.

Are the cops lying ? Maybe but since a lawsuit has been filed we're not going to get much more information on this until the suit is settled.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 03:10 PM   #78
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,812
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And also, while I don't doubt they returned it, I am kinda curious why.
They returned because of indignation over the accusation of stealing the TV. Most likely, the son got the TV home to give to his mom, told her the story, and she got pissed off and told him he needed to return it and, "By the way, I'm going with you to give someone a piece of my mind."

When I was a kid, I was yelled at (for examining a button at an escalator - seriously) by an employee at Montgomery Ward while I was with my grandparents. My grandma told off the manager, paid the balance on their Montgomery Ward credit card, closed the account, and my grandparents never went to one of their stores again...after shopping there regularly for years.

My point being that the indignation that comes when someone feels a close family member has been mistreated...it can be powerful.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 03:11 PM   #79
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
If you believe the cops...

Sam's Club said the TV was stolen so cops tried to arrest Derek. Derek resisted and attempted to use a fire extinguisher as a weapon against the cops. Mavia went ballistic and got physical with the cops. The cops called in more cops.

Are the cops lying ? Maybe but since a lawsuit has been filed we're not going to get much more information on this until the suit is settled.
... Interesting.

Not to be that guy, and not that I think you should be doing shemp's homework, but do you happen to have a source for that?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2020, 03:14 PM   #80
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 45,145
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
They returned because of indignation over the accusation of stealing the TV. Most likely, the son got the TV home to give to his mom, told her the story, and she got pissed off and told him he needed to return it and, "By the way, I'm going with you to give someone a piece of my mind."
I figured it was something like that. Just trying to wrap my head around the idea of "we wanted the TV, we have the TV, Sam's Club had our back; let's ditch the TV and yell at Sam's Club". Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:05 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.