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21st May 2020, 07:19 AM | #201 |
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21st May 2020, 07:22 AM | #202 | ||
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Lack of receipt wouldn't be an issue. The policies you link to said quite clearly that while a receipt is requested, it isn't required.
Store credit wouldn't be an issue, the policies you linked to said quite clearly that refunds were issues as cash or credit to the purchasing card, not store credit.
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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21st May 2020, 07:26 AM | #203 |
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21st May 2020, 07:28 AM | #204 |
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It says they'll do their best without one, not that there won't be issues. Based on my experience, and the many experiences reported by others, their best is going to vary depending on the nature of the item being returned. It's also likely to vary depending on the expectations of the customer.
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21st May 2020, 07:46 AM | #205 |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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21st May 2020, 08:06 AM | #206 |
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Looks to me like he got angry but not violent or threatening, and the police decided this was sufficient justification to escalate the level of confrontation. It looks like classic "I am a cop and you will respect my authoritah!" behavior. Whether it would have happened if he'd been white is a question we can only speculate about. What I find interesting is that the family's lawyer is only pressing charges against the city concerning the injuries to his mother. My interpretation of this is that they don't see any prospect of finding a jury that could possibly find a police officer at fault for brutality against a tall, fit-looking black man, even though there's not even a vague indication that he was committing any crime or presenting a reasonable threat of committing one, but that maybe beating the crap out of a small 68-year-old woman is just a little bit beyond the pale. Again, I'm only speculating, and if other posters can offer examples of white shoppers being treated similarly I'd be glad to reconsider.
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21st May 2020, 08:08 AM | #207 |
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Not familiar with two of your examples, but of the other two (Guyger and McMichaels), one is in prison for murder and the other two under arrest for same and awaiting trial. So the police pretty clearly can't do what you claim they can.
Also, in a nation of a third of a billion people, there are going to be occasional outliers of hateful injustice. Please don't insult all of us with that wide brush of yours. |
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21st May 2020, 08:12 AM | #208 |
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21st May 2020, 08:14 AM | #209 |
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21st May 2020, 08:17 AM | #210 |
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I remember similar scams from when I was in retail. We had this one couple that always came in and never bought anything. And surrounding that couple, a lot of stuff went missing (ex. clothes they tried on). One time and employee returning from lunch spotted them getting into a car that was full of merchandise, and a few times people saw strange bulges on their backs underneath their clothes, etc.
Eventually one of my coworkers was promoted to manager in a store in her home state, two states over. She reported that the same couple often visited her store with the same behavior. |
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21st May 2020, 08:21 AM | #211 |
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You do remember, don't you, that the TV that the Grays brought back was returned to them by the police and they weren't accused of any crime? Now, again, this is just speculation, but with the city facing a lawsuit for police brutality, I would expect them to do all they could to bring some kind of charges against one or other of the Grays. The fact that they haven't done so suggests that there wasn't any charge they could bring, and that further suggests that the Grays weren't involved in some nefarious scam but were just bringing back an item they'd legally purchased for a refund under the terms and conditions under which they purchased it.
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21st May 2020, 08:25 AM | #212 |
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21st May 2020, 08:29 AM | #213 |
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Just a couple of posts ago you said they were "accused by a police officer of committing a crime that had occurred only in that officer's imagination".
And even that is a questionable statement, since the articles I have seen suggested that an employee thought they may have been trying to steal the TV. |
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21st May 2020, 08:40 AM | #214 |
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21st May 2020, 08:41 AM | #215 |
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21st May 2020, 08:44 AM | #216 |
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21st May 2020, 08:48 AM | #217 |
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21st May 2020, 09:05 AM | #218 |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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21st May 2020, 09:07 AM | #219 |
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Awful lot of anecdotes about shoplifting scams in thread about a man who did not, in fact, shoplift.
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21st May 2020, 09:13 AM | #220 |
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I may have missed something in this thread, but I keep seeing speculation and reading stories about return scams (some of which are undoubtedly germane to the issue of return scams), but does anyone here actually know for a fact whether or not the people in question had documentation or receipts for the TV when they returned it? Not the usual speculation about what sometimes happens, or what they expect happened, or some dirt about their past, etc., but actual knowledge of what transaction was occurring?
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21st May 2020, 09:26 AM | #221 |
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Like most ISF threads, there wasn't much left to discuss after the first page or so, and naturally digressions have emerged.
You're complaining about the digressions, but you could have used that post to raise some central point from the OP that hasn't yet been discussed. |
21st May 2020, 09:27 AM | #222 |
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We don't know that for a fact. Anyone who asks (as you have done) gets a veiled (or not so veiled) accusation of racism thrown at them. That said, it's probably not too important.
I would like to know what the cops were told, and what they were thinking, in the run-up to the violence, but that's more out of curiosity/completionism, than any expectation of mitigating circumstances for their actions on video. |
21st May 2020, 09:50 AM | #223 |
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21st May 2020, 09:56 AM | #224 |
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To me, it has always seemed the natural role of a skeptic to hear a story presented in the media as "horrible racist treatment of black people has happened again, black man beaten and/or killed for no reason at all!" and then say "Hmm, I bet there's more to this story"
I don't see why so many here want to shut down that sort of reaction to these stories. |
21st May 2020, 10:42 AM | #225 |
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21st May 2020, 11:57 AM | #226 |
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It strikes me as odd that these cops can't arrest an unarmed man without breaking 3 of his teeth and requiring him to get staples and stitches in his head.
Regardless of the justification for the arrest, this is poor work from professional law enforcement. Edit: The false arrest claim is largely a separate issue from the grotesque overuse of force here. |
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21st May 2020, 12:02 PM | #227 |
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21st May 2020, 12:09 PM | #228 |
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21st May 2020, 12:15 PM | #229 |
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21st May 2020, 12:42 PM | #230 |
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Cool.
Here’s you insisting that a racist murderer was acting in self-defense despite all evidence to the contrary. Tell us more about how skepticism works. |
21st May 2020, 02:48 PM | #231 |
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I was thinking it works rather the other way too. The sorts who are always trying to justify such attacks have thrown in the possibility that what he was doing looked worse than it was, and thus that it's reasonable to go and smash his head in when he doesn't immediately kowtow like the thief he knows he isn't, for the second time in the same store.
In so many of these recent cases, it seems that the victim gets blamed for his attitude, or his belligerence, but how is one supposed to react when attacked for no good reason? There seems, for many, to be an assumption that if you're a ****** you ought to know you are running under a different set of rules, and have no right to be indignant. |
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Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Moličre) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi) |
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21st May 2020, 02:57 PM | #232 |
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21st May 2020, 03:10 PM | #233 |
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Rubbish.
The fact that they did it means they can do it. I said nothing about getting away with it without consequences. The point is, these things should not even be happening in the first place. If you believe the incidence of white cops killing black people are "occasional outliers", then you are living in a river in North East Africa, you are deluding yourself. Racism in the USA is pervasive and chronic, it infests the political alt-right and far-right. It also infests law enforcement from coast to coast, and this is especially so in the old south. These sorts of things do not happen to people of predominantly one race or skin colour in any other free democracy in the world. How often do you see white cops gunning down innocent black people in Canada, or in France, UK, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Switzerland or any other country in greater Europe (which incidentally, have a combined population 50% greater than 'Merica!!? |
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21st May 2020, 03:12 PM | #234 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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21st May 2020, 03:15 PM | #235 |
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Yeah, but that man is black - that alone is enough to make some people suspicious and to come up with any irrelevant bollocks they can to put the heat on the "probably guilty of something" black man, while doing everything they can to make excuses for the "just doing his job" white cop who is wearing the halo.
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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21st May 2020, 03:28 PM | #236 |
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Most of us wondered "Maybe there is more to this story" in the first five minutes and then went and did a bit of research.
The ones saying "Maybe he was returning a box full of bricks" or "Maybe he was returning an old television set and bullying the clerk into not checking" don't appear to have done that research. |
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21st May 2020, 04:06 PM | #237 |
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We all hate poverty, war, and injustice Unlike the rest of you squares. Tom Lehrer - Folk Song Army |
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21st May 2020, 04:08 PM | #238 |
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Occam's razor cuts this one down pretty easily. Both were arrested on the scene on suspicion of theft and the TV was seized by the police. Later, the TV was returned to the customers. While they charged the mother with interference and resisting arrest, no charges for any kind of theft were forthcoming. It's hard to imagine a scenario where there was any evidence of theft and the police returning the TV and not charging them. The simplest explanation is that the TV was not stolen. |
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21st May 2020, 04:37 PM | #239 |
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It's the OP's job to do research on the items they post about.
Quote:
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21st May 2020, 04:38 PM | #240 |
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How did you learn so much about racism in the US living way over there in New Zealand? Do you have any way of qualifying your statement that racism is "pervasive and chronic" in the US? How about that it "infests law enforcement from coast to coast"? And finally that it's "especially so" in the South?
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