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 21st May 2020, 03:08 AM #521 abaddon Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 20,307 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Altered Initial condition 1) The grid consists of a chess board modified by adding a black square to the right of each original black square moving the others to the right. Or any other non-chess-board pattern. Onto this grid you place a simple ant. This ant follows some very simple rules. 1. Move one square forward. 2. If the square it lands on is black, change it to white and turn to the left. 3. If the square it lands on is white, change it to black and turn to the right. 4. Repeat forever. What pattern of black and white squares will the ant make, in your opinion? Altered Initial condition 2) The grid consists of a regular chess board pattern. Onto this grid you place a simple ant. This ant follows some very simple rules. 1. Move one square forward. 2. If the square it lands on is black, change it to white and turn to the left. 3. If the square it lands on is white, change it to black and turn to the right. 3a. Every tenth move must be a forward move using the next digit in the number Pi (or "e") for the number of forward steps. 4. Repeat forever. What pattern of black and white squares will the ant make, in your opinion? Apparently the exact same pattern? What pattern would that be? Do you know? __________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...
 21st May 2020, 08:00 AM #522 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by abaddon What pattern would that be? Do you know? Are you serious that the second example will ever make a pattern? I was being seriously facetious. Randomness has been introduced fairly frequently into that example. Are you asking for a description of the pattern or a name? I do not know what sort of answer you want. And why would that "pattern" demonstrate emergence? __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 21st May 2020, 08:58 AM #523 p0lka Graduate Poster   Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: near trees, houses and a lake. Posts: 1,855 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Are you serious that the second example will ever make a pattern? I was being seriously facetious. Randomness has been introduced fairly frequently into that example. Are you asking for a description of the pattern or a name? I do not know what sort of answer you want. And why would that "pattern" demonstrate emergence? I thought the initial conditions referred to the state of the board, ie whether all black, all white or a mixture, that is irrelevant as far as has been found. What you did was changed the rules the ant follows, by adding 3a. Last edited by p0lka; 21st May 2020 at 09:05 AM.
 21st May 2020, 10:37 AM #525 Allen773 Graduate Poster     Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cali Four Neea Posts: 1,210 What’s going on in this thread?
 21st May 2020, 10:45 AM #526 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by p0lka I thought the initial conditions referred to the state of the board, ie whether all black, all white or a mixture, that is irrelevant as far as has been found. What you did was changed the rules the ant follows, by adding 3a. All of this discussion relates to the emergence of intelligence, if I remember correctly. I went back to the Prime Cause. The Prime Cause would decide what board to use - namely the amount of matter and antimatter would be used and how it would be packed or arranged. It would also decide what the rules would be - namely the Laws of Physics. And it would decide on the physical constants - an incredibly small change in one or more would apparently result in a chaotic universe. Irrelevant to what? For some reason I feel I am debating while blind folded. There are oblique references that I find confusing. __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 21st May 2020, 10:55 AM #527 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by Allen773 What’s going on in this thread? I say that in 2009 God spoke to me and told me that humankind could not control over-population so he would do it with a severe pandemic. He confirmed the message was not just my imagination by having me learn of the Swine Flu pandemic the very next day and sending infected students to two places I was passing through in the next 4 days in New Zealand. A week later I realized that Swine Flu was not the big one but just confirmation for me. I had to use the intervening years to learn about plagues and pandemics and get information relating to the what and why of the big one. Which has arrived pretty much according to plan, although I had to wait and watch. I also say that cell phone radiation is a factor in making the virus so much worse. You can choose to think there might be some merit in what I say, or you can scoff. If God did talk to me, then this pandemic will result in massive societal change and a serious downward trend in population. One can prepare emotionally and contribute positively to the changes - or one can bemoan the fate of the world. I know a number of religious people who feel that change is needed, but it will only occur with massive disaster to force the change. ETA: And of course we are arguing about whether God exists. __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** Last edited by PartSkeptic; 21st May 2020 at 10:58 AM.
 21st May 2020, 11:09 AM #528 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 This might be the way to express it. It died out. We do not know why. However, it did mutate to less virulent strains. https://mbio.asm.org/content/3/5/e00201-12 ...The milestone achievement of reconstructing an “extinct” pandemic virus raised a number of questions that had not been asked before. The most fundamental of these was whether it was necessary or wise to recreate by molecular means a naturally extinct virus that represented one of the deadliest infectious agents in human history. ...Although the pandemic influenza viruses of 1957, 1968, and 2009 are all descended, via different pathways, from the 1918 virus, only the 2009 pandemic virus expresses an antigenically similar hemagglutinin (HA) (11). __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 21st May 2020, 11:17 AM #529 p0lka Graduate Poster   Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: near trees, houses and a lake. Posts: 1,855 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic All of this discussion relates to the emergence of intelligence, if I remember correctly. I went back to the Prime Cause. The Prime Cause would decide what board to use - namely the amount of matter and antimatter would be used and how it would be packed or arranged. It would also decide what the rules would be - namely the Laws of Physics. And it would decide on the physical constants - an incredibly small change in one or more would apparently result in a chaotic universe. Irrelevant to what? For some reason I feel I am debating while blind folded. There are oblique references that I find confusing. Ah sorry for being confusing, my reply was strictly related to what was being considered initial conditions regarding the Langton's ant topic. The starting position of the board is the initial conditions, which seem to be irrelevant when asking about the end patterns. You changed the rules of the ant by adding 3a, which isn't the same as changing the initial conditions, so I was just posting to point that out. Last edited by p0lka; 21st May 2020 at 11:31 AM.
 21st May 2020, 10:58 PM #531 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by Mojo That’s clearly not the right case, as it hasn’t been reported. The one you referred to was one that you claimed had been reported with “a one-line report saying that "In an unusual case, the discretion of a judge on costs was overturned””, and which they “had no choice but to report it as it was Court of Appeal ruling.” You further claimed that you had read the report in the New Zealand Law Reports. Any chance of the citation? I stand corrected on where I read the one-line citation. But read it I did. My amazement at a one-line citation was unforgettable. NOW, the cases are mostly online. It was a Court of Appeal case so look at the listing. http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZCA/2006/332.html However, this was not the case I looked at in the Law Library. The NZLR are not the only listing of case law. Obviously I only found the reference in a series of case law where they summarized the cases. Thanks for pushing me to investigate further. If I went to the Law Library now, I am fairly sure I would be able to find the book I found the one-liner. ETA. Just thinking. It may be the Law Reports. One needs a paid subscription to Lexis to access them. IIRC they come out once a year and review various topics. I found the reference under "Costs". Maybe the Wits University Law Library has them. I would have to subscribe to the Alumni to get access. Too difficult. Since you are so determined, why do you not pay a lawyer in NZ to look it up for you, and report back. ETA2 http://www.lexisnexis.co.nz/en-nz/pr...w-reports.page __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** Last edited by PartSkeptic; 21st May 2020 at 11:49 PM.
 21st May 2020, 11:41 PM #532 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by p0lka Ah sorry for being confusing, my reply was strictly related to what was being considered initial conditions regarding the Langton's ant topic. The starting position of the board is the initial conditions, which seem to be irrelevant when asking about the end patterns. You changed the rules of the ant by adding 3a, which isn't the same as changing the initial conditions, so I was just posting to point that out. Okay. But with an infinite sized chess board, how many choices of starting position does one have? Black or white. And in one move or two one may get to the alternative starting position, so there is actually no choice of starting position. The choice of board pattern is an initial condition. It is likely with a simple set of rules that a type of pattern may emerge with different board patterns. And that the pattern is the same for any position start on the board if the first sequences can get it to the square that starts off the pattern. A pattern "emerges". Why is this significant? One is following an algorithm. Even if one got a box of air with random molecules, the random motion may just form patterns for a brief instant. One would need an infinite amount of time, but the degrees of freedom are huge. __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 22nd May 2020, 02:54 AM #533 RedStapler Critical Thinker   Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 327 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I say that in 2009 God spoke to me and told me that humankind could not control over-population so he would do it with a severe pandemic. He confirmed the message was not just my imagination by having me learn of the Swine Flu pandemic the very next day and sending infected students to two places I was passing through in the next 4 days in New Zealand. A week later I realized that Swine Flu was not the big one but just confirmation for me. I had to use the intervening years to learn about plagues and pandemics and get information relating to the what and why of the big one. Which has arrived pretty much according to plan, although I had to wait and watch. I also say that cell phone radiation is a factor in making the virus so much worse. You can choose to think there might be some merit in what I say, or you can scoff. If God did talk to me, then this pandemic will result in massive societal change and a serious downward trend in population. One can prepare emotionally and contribute positively to the changes - or one can bemoan the fate of the world. I know a number of religious people who feel that change is needed, but it will only occur with massive disaster to force the change. ETA: And of course we are arguing about whether God exists. 2009? With this massive delay, it's almost like "god" acts like a human (or like a human invented him). Also, at this rate, humans will simply produce new humans while practically rendering the efforts of "god" meaningless.
 22nd May 2020, 04:25 AM #534 Spektator Watching . . . always watching.     Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 1,743 Originally Posted by Allen773 What’s going on in this thread? It's wandering like a doped up ant but never coming close to the topic. Last edited by Spektator; 22nd May 2020 at 04:26 AM. Reason: Autocorrupt
 22nd May 2020, 04:33 AM #535 Mojo Mostly harmless     Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 32,350 Originally Posted by RedStapler 2009? With this massive delay, it's almost like "god" acts like a human... Or maybe a committee. __________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
 22nd May 2020, 05:47 AM #536 RedStapler Critical Thinker   Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 327 Originally Posted by Mojo Or maybe a committee. The picture of a committee of "gods" having a heated debate on how to decimate those humans is really funny.
 22nd May 2020, 08:08 AM #538 Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat     Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,050 Have you done that blind test yet? __________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
 22nd May 2020, 08:23 AM #539 p0lka Graduate Poster   Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: near trees, houses and a lake. Posts: 1,855 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Okay. But with an infinite sized chess board, how many choices of starting position does one have? Black or white. And in one move or two one may get to the alternative starting position, so there is actually no choice of starting position. The choice of board pattern is an initial condition. It is likely with a simple set of rules that a type of pattern may emerge with different board patterns. And that the pattern is the same for any position start on the board if the first sequences can get it to the square that starts off the pattern. A pattern "emerges". Why is this significant? One is following an algorithm. Even if one got a box of air with random molecules, the random motion may just form patterns for a brief instant. One would need an infinite amount of time, but the degrees of freedom are huge. The choice of board pattern is an initial condition and as has been stated previously, it's irrelevant what that initial condition is regarding the pattern that emerges. Last edited by p0lka; 22nd May 2020 at 08:24 AM.
 22nd May 2020, 09:45 AM #541 Mojo Mostly harmless     Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 32,350 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I stand corrected on where I read the one-line citation. But read it I did. My amazement at a one-line citation was unforgettable. NOW, the cases are mostly online. It was a Court of Appeal case so look at the listing. http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZCA/2006/332.html However, this was not the case I looked at in the Law Library. The NZLR are not the only listing of case law. Obviously I only found the reference in a series of case law where they summarized the cases. Thanks for pushing me to investigate further. If I went to the Law Library now, I am fairly sure I would be able to find the book I found the one-liner. ETA. Just thinking. It may be the Law Reports. One needs a paid subscription to Lexis to access them. IIRC they come out once a year and review various topics. I found the reference under "Costs". Maybe the Wits University Law Library has them. I would have to subscribe to the Alumni to get access. Too difficult. Since you are so determined, why do you not pay a lawyer in NZ to look it up for you, and report back. No, the Law Reports is a UK series, see for example this list of law reports at the University of Auckland. New Zealand cases only got reported there if they got as far as the Privy Council. And I’m not about to ask anyone to look for a report of a case if I don’t even have the case name. Especially if it’s something that’s needed to support your claim. __________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
 22nd May 2020, 11:46 AM #543 Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat     Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,050 The 'free will' answer to the "why do bad things happen" question does not, of course, account for the bad things which are not a consequence of free will, i.e. the majority of them. Earthquakes, tsunamis, cancer, freak accidents, pandemics ... __________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
 22nd May 2020, 11:46 AM #544 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by Mojo No, the Law Reports is a UK series, see for example this list of law reports at the University of Auckland. New Zealand cases only got reported there if they got as far as the Privy Council. And I’m not about to ask anyone to look for a report of a case if I don’t even have the case name. Especially if it’s something that’s needed to support your claim. Sigh. You win. I am beaten into submission. Your request is too difficult for me to keep going, and I see it as pointless and not achieving anything. BTW - No, the Law Reports is a UK series... I meant NZLR - since we are talking about NZ I thought I could leave off the NZ. __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 22nd May 2020, 11:48 AM #545 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by Pixel42 The 'free will' answer to the "why do bad things happen" question does not, of course, account for the bad things which are not a consequence of free will, i.e. the majority of them. Earthquakes, tsunamis, cancer, freak accidents, pandemics ... Not to mention an asteroid that created the Moon, and another that got rid of the dinosaurs to allow mammals to emerge. __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 22nd May 2020, 12:04 PM #546 Mojo Mostly harmless     Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 32,350 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Sigh. You win. I am beaten into submission. Your request is too difficult for me to keep going, and I see it as pointless and not achieving anything. BTW - No, the Law Reports is a UK series... I meant NZLR - since we are talking about NZ I thought I could leave off the NZ. Again, the NZLRs don’t fit, they publish monthly, and fully report the cases they cover. And in the very post I was replying to, and quoted, you implied that it wasn’t in the NZLRs: Originally Posted by PartSkeptic However, this was not the case I looked at in the Law Library. The NZLR are not the only listing of case law. Obviously I only found the reference in a series of case law where they summarized the cases. But even a summarised report would give the reasons for the decision, otherwise it wouldn’t be worth printing. But I agree, finding a reference to a report of a case when you don’t know the series it was published in or the names of the parties is probably too difficult. __________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky Last edited by Mojo; 22nd May 2020 at 12:22 PM.
 22nd May 2020, 01:01 PM #548 abaddon Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 20,307 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Are you serious that the second example will ever make a pattern? I was being seriously facetious. Randomness has been introduced fairly frequently into that example. Are you asking for a description of the pattern or a name? I do not know what sort of answer you want. And why would that "pattern" demonstrate emergence? You introduced an extra rule that does not exist in Langtons Ant. That is dishonest. What pattern will Langton's Ant always make regardless of the initial state of the board? __________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...
 22nd May 2020, 01:04 PM #549 abaddon Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 20,307 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic All of this discussion relates to the emergence of intelligence, if I remember correctly. I went back to the Prime Cause. The Prime Cause would decide what board to use - namely the amount of matter and antimatter would be used and how it would be packed or arranged. It would also decide what the rules would be - namely the Laws of Physics. And it would decide on the physical constants - an incredibly small change in one or more would apparently result in a chaotic universe. Irrelevant to what? For some reason I feel I am debating while blind folded. There are oblique references that I find confusing. So you have no understanding of emergence. In the Langton's Ant example, WE are the prime cause and WE have set the limited rules applying to the ant. Trying to change those is dishonest. __________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...
 22nd May 2020, 01:10 PM #550 abaddon Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 20,307 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Okay. But with an infinite sized chess board, how many choices of starting position does one have? Black or white. And in one move or two one may get to the alternative starting position, so there is actually no choice of starting position. Irrelevant. And you don't understand why. Originally Posted by PartSkeptic The choice of board pattern is an initial condition. It is likely with a simple set of rules that a type of pattern may emerge with different board patterns. It isn't a "type of pattern" There is only on possible pattern. What is it? Originally Posted by PartSkeptic And that the pattern is the same for any position start on the board if the first sequences can get it to the square that starts off the pattern. And if they are all white or all black? Originally Posted by PartSkeptic A pattern "emerges". Why is this significant? One is following an algorithm. Where does the algorithm describe the pattern? Or give rules for the pattern? Or even mention a pattern? Originally Posted by PartSkeptic Even if one got a box of air with random molecules, the random motion may just form patterns for a brief instant. One would need an infinite amount of time, but the degrees of freedom are huge. Except once Langton's ant starts creating the pattern, it never stops, ever. What pattern does it make? __________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...
 22nd May 2020, 04:00 PM #551 Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF     Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 4,867 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I say that in 2009 God spoke to me and told me that humankind could not control over-population so he would do it with a severe pandemic. He confirmed the message was not just my imagination by having me learn of the Swine Flu pandemic the very next day and sending infected students to two places I was passing through in the next 4 days in New Zealand. I told you nothing of the sort. Quote: *snip* You can choose to think there might be some merit in what I say, or you can scoff. If God did talk to me, then this pandemic will result in massive societal change and a serious downward trend in population. One can prepare emotionally and contribute positively to the changes - or one can bemoan the fate of the world. I did not. Quote: I know a number of religious people who feel that change is needed, but it will only occur with massive disaster to force the change. ETA: And of course we are arguing about whether God exists. Of course I exist. __________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
 22nd May 2020, 11:16 PM #552 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by abaddon You introduced an extra rule that does not exist in Langtons Ant. That is dishonest. What pattern will Langton's Ant always make regardless of the initial state of the board? Langton's ant will make a "highway" pattern. __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 22nd May 2020, 11:26 PM #553 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by abaddon (snip) Except once Langton's ant starts creating the pattern, it never stops, ever. What pattern does it make? It never stops if the board is blank or is a chess board. It does stop for a short while if there are random black squares in its path. However, it will circle around that spot until it is able to reform. The rules predispose the ant to form a 104 step repetitive pattern. It can be disturbed but it wants to reform - over and over. If one put the 104 step on the board to start with, the ant would never do any random (pardon - pseudo-random) moves. I do not doubt that the algorithm has a predisposed and inherent repetitive pattern built into it, and that the pattern will eventually form. Emerge in this context is a word to describe to process of "eventually forming". How does that support your argument? I say it supports mine. You clearly are not reading and understanding my posts. ETA: I just thought of one initial condition of black squares on the grid that will stop the "highway" forming. Can you? Or anyone else? I may be wrong but let us go down this "highway". __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.** Last edited by PartSkeptic; 22nd May 2020 at 11:29 PM.
 22nd May 2020, 11:31 PM #554 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by Shalamar I told you nothing of the sort. I did not. Of course I exist. I can recognize a false god. (Must be the helmet. ) __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 22nd May 2020, 11:35 PM #555 PartSkeptic Illuminator     Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: South Africa Posts: 3,364 Originally Posted by p0lka Happy to help with your research, twas this that I was replying to originally, as it seemed you weren't sure what was an initial condition in the question that another poster asked. But now that's all sorted and you get that changing the ant rules is different from changing the initial conditions, i will post the question that was asked to you before I rudely interrupted. You were not rude. You assisted. Good on you. I have answered. And gone a bit further down the "highway" of knowledge. Interesting area of study. I may get into writing software to do some of this sort of stuff. I see no point in re-inventing the wheel so I will copy whatever is out there and change it to suit. __________________ **Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
 23rd May 2020, 12:01 AM #556 Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat     Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,050 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I do not doubt that the algorithm has a predisposed and inherent repetitive pattern built into it, and that the pattern will eventually form. Where? Quote: Emerge in this context is a word to describe to process of "eventually forming". How does that support your argument? I say it supports mine. The point of this example is that a set of very simple rules, with no purpose built into them, will eventually produce complex behaviour which looks purposeful. Here's an excellent piece, derived from an interactive exhibit, which takes you by the hand and guides you through it. https://serendipstudio.org/complexit...ant/index.html __________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
 23rd May 2020, 12:07 AM #557 Shalamar Dark Lord of the JREF     Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere Else Posts: 4,867 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I can recognize a false god. (Must be the helmet. ) Your lack of faith is disturbing. I am your God. The Alpha and the Omega. __________________ "The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
 23rd May 2020, 12:27 AM #558 Roger Ramjets Illuminator     Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,519 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic The past week has caused my blood pressure to sky-rocket. The electrosmog causes it. I am now using personal shielding when I go out our home. I have to cut way back on my calorie intake and do some serious walking three times a day. This will help. The tinfoil not so much. Your high blood pressure is probably caused by poor diet and lack of exercise. You only think it's 'electrosmog' because you can see the towers and theorized a cause that doesn't actually exist, and confirmation bias did the rest. There is no evidence for 'electrosmog' from cellphone towers causing high blood pressure, and no mechanism for it. But there are well-known diet-related causes, and exercise will make you feel better as well as improving general health. Don't just talk about it, do it. 5 years ago my doctor told me I had to lose weight to get my blood pressure and cholesterol level down. I cut out fat and sugar, halved the meat and increased the vegetable content of my meals, drink only water and stick to a strict regime of 30~40 minutes exercise per day. I now feel 10 years younger! __________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
 23rd May 2020, 01:22 AM #559 Roger Ramjets Illuminator     Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,519 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I say that in 2009 God spoke to me and told me that humankind could not control over-population so he would do it with a severe pandemic. He confirmed the message was not just my imagination by having me learn of the Swine Flu pandemic the very next day and sending infected students to two places I was passing through in the next 4 days in New Zealand. Why don't you tell us the full truth. It wasn't students, God told you to start the Swine Flu pandemic. But God didn't start Covid-19. It was man-made, created by Trump to kill brown people and liberals, and give him a 'wartime president' popularity boost. Only problem is, like everything Trump touches it turned to ****. How do we know this? There's plenty of evidence. As soon as he got into power, Trump gutted the CDC and threw away Obama's pandemic response plans. The US government was funding a lab in Wuhan province in China. Trump put pressure on China by blocking trade until they agreed to release the virus (timelines of the trade agreement and estimated virus release date are a perfect match!). He then deliberately downplayed the spread (calling it a 'hoax') to make sure it got a hold on all the liberal eastern states. He also refused to lock down the country, and impounded medical supplies destined for states he wanted to infect. To cover it up he constantly made outlandish statements that made it look like the lack of effective action was due to incompetence, but it was just another part of his nefarious scheme. In case you think this is just a conspiracy theory, consider this: Trump all but confessed to doing it, when he said, Quote: I've always known this is a real – this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic. Yes, Trump knew about it before anyone else, because he created it! And finally, Trump admits that he has been taking hydroxychloroquine for 'weeks' - but actually a lot longer than that. One of the side effects it can cause is orange skin, which Trump has had for years! This is absolute proof that Trump planned the pandemic several years ago. __________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. Last edited by Roger Ramjets; 23rd May 2020 at 01:27 AM.
 23rd May 2020, 01:52 AM #560 Mojo Mostly harmless     Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 32,350 Originally Posted by PartSkeptic I can recognize a false god. (Must be the helmet. ) Should it be made from tinfoil? __________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

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