ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus

Reply
Old 28th June 2020, 06:38 AM   #1161
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
That remark is jaw-dropping. Give me some solid examples of the "help" I am getting?
I've provided several viable statistical models to help you attain a degree of rigor in your measurements. You responded by complaining that they were too long to read. Quit feigning indignance.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2020, 06:54 AM   #1162
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Okay now you are being reasonable. Although you could have left out the snarky put-down.
Yeah, you don't get to rebuke people on those grounds.

Quote:
There are some key differences.
There are differences even within the same country. U.S. federal courts follow the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. My state court has its own state rules of civil procedure, which are different. My city and magistrate courts have yet more different rules. And each court has specific rules governing comportment, the filing of documents, and so forth.

My point is not to quibble about the rules of the particular court you're praying to. I have no problem conceding that you certainly know more about the rules of procedure in your jurisdiction than I do. My point, and that of others, is that you can't seem to make your claims of what's going on match the documentary record of the case. You're claiming things happened, or should have happened, that are either contradicted by or missing from the record.

Then, further, you decry the corruption of the court when things don't go your way. But then you engage in behavior clearly intended to influence the workings of the court beyond the merits of your case. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the system is corrupt and you are just as guilty as others of trying to manipulate it, or it is fair and you should take your lumps.

Last edited by JayUtah; 28th June 2020 at 07:30 AM.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2020, 07:13 AM   #1163
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
In my case, the merits were not discussed.
But your story differs on this point. In one version the judge discussed his upcoming ruling with you.

Quote:
I would say my assumption is reasonable.
It's still an assumption, not a fact for which you have evidence. This is a major flaw in most of your reasoning here. You conclude that various things "must" have happened, but it's all assumption. And then you bristle when those assumptions are challenged.

Quote:
If you ask people I know I do not try to prove myself.
But I can't do that. I can only go by your behavior here, and I'm commenting on your behavior here. I don't care what you do elsewhere. Here, nearly every argument you affirm is based on your claim to pre-eminent expertise in that particular point. And nearly every response you make to challenges to your claims starts with accusing your critics of ignorance. You have even started manufacturing arguments to stick in your critics' mouths just so you can pretend they're ignorant for having "argued" it. You're going out of your way to do this.

Quote:
But here I am being challenged.
Because that's what this forum does, and you come here knowing full well what will happen. However, in this particular thread people are not just challenging you, they're explaining what to do to meet the challenge. They're teaching you their skills in a Socratic way in the hope that you might advance your search for the actual cause for your illness.

Quote:
Many arguments rest on an implication that I am stupid, or ignorant, and am generally incompetent.
No. The challenges you meet here have nothing to do with your general intelligence. They have solely to do with your inability to demonstrate specific expertise on the particular claims you make. Your inability to demonstrate specific expertise when it is narrowly demanded is not a sweeping personal attack.

Quote:
I supply my anecdotes as biographical information as to who I am and why I feel qualified to make the claims I do.
No one cares. You belabor us with irrelevant anecdotes instead of addressing specific arguments and rebuttals people make. It's not so much that you ramble on with stories. It's that you do so instead of being more attentive. No one wants deep background into why you are the way you are. They simply want clear, concise answers to questions they ask.

Quote:
I still am concerned about the motivation behind your need to include personal put-downs of me in your posts.
Report any posts that you believe are personal attacks. Otherwise do not complain about it for rhetorical purposes. You don't have to speculate about my motives for posting here. I wrote a post about it some weeks back.

Quote:
This thread is about my predictions - God inspired and my own opinions based on 71 years of experience. Hence I do not find an exchange of credentials to be a derail.
This thread appears to be about whatever you want to talk about from day to day. At times you simply treat it like your personal blog. But to get down to it, I don't believe you talk to God, and I don't see your opinions as founded upon much past paranoia and assumption. That is not a strategy that plays well among skeptics. You know that, and yet you persist. You complain at your allegedly shabby treatment here, but it seems to be what you're seeking.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2020, 07:42 AM   #1164
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 26,516
With regard to "help," I would remind PartSkeptic that the proposed test, which he seems unwilling to accept, would be drastically cheaper than whatever seems to require the acquisition of more equipment. If proposing a test which is not only useful, easy and acceptable, but free is not help, what is?
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2020, 07:47 AM   #1165
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Tell me why you think damages were paid and why there was a NDA?
Shifting the burden of proof. And I've made no statement regarding dismantling radio towers, nor have I solicited any from you. Calling me out on random questions you think I'm obliged to answer is a derail. Yesterday several people asked you questions having to do with the documents in your court case, and about the protocols in the experiment we're discussing. Today, in response, you wrote four posts, all directed solely at me and almost completely sidestepping any accountability that was being required of you from the prior discussion.

You clearly have ideas about why things are happening around you. Your critics here are helping you understand how much of that is based on paranoia and assumption. Obsessing over one person is not cooperative.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2020, 12:26 PM   #1166
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The UK doesn’t have a codified constitution, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have constitutional law. The situation in NZ is similar.
Among the many disservices done to Americans by their educational system is the misconception that the United Kingdom "has no written constitution." They mean, of course, that there is no one single document that is the supreme law of the land, as there is in the U.S. and many subsequent countries. But it really comes down to a fundamental difference in what Americans and British want the word to mean.

That said, UK courts can certainly invoke a constitution. In a case before the UK Supreme Court not too long ago, PM Boris Johnson was found to have impermissibly advised Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament, in an attempt to evade a critical vote on Brexit. The opinion is full of constitutional reasoning, and appeals to documents the Justices evidently found to have the force that US courts give the US Constitution. In fact, the opinion even cited Magna Carta, which is sill a component (although almost entirely surpassed) of the UK constitution.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2020, 01:10 PM   #1167
p0lka
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: near trees, houses and a lake.
Posts: 1,953
Seems to me that the ability to google terms quickly then reply relies on the internet.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2020, 02:25 PM   #1168
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 20,510
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Among the many disservices done to Americans by their educational system is the misconception that the United Kingdom "has no written constitution." They mean, of course, that there is no one single document that is the supreme law of the land, as there is in the U.S. and many subsequent countries. But it really comes down to a fundamental difference in what Americans and British want the word to mean.

That said, UK courts can certainly invoke a constitution. In a case before the UK Supreme Court not too long ago, PM Boris Johnson was found to have impermissibly advised Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament, in an attempt to evade a critical vote on Brexit. The opinion is full of constitutional reasoning, and appeals to documents the Justices evidently found to have the force that US courts give the US Constitution. In fact, the opinion even cited Magna Carta, which is sill a component (although almost entirely surpassed) of the UK constitution.
Quite. Constitutional Law is a thing in the UK and that simply could not be in the absence of an actual constitution.

It is quite fair to say that the UK does not have a constitution in the sense of the US constitution. Or my own for that matter. There is no such thing in the UK.

Nevertheless, the UK does have a constitution.

It simply is not set down in one document.

It is embodied in an expanse of law, precedence and what have you spanning centuries.

You and I have the advantage that our countries got a clean slate to write one for ourselves and even given that opportunity, proceeded to bork it.

Could the UK codify their constitution onto a single document? In theory, yes.

I would rather chew razor blades than be in such a meeting

One would end up with the usual gov solution. One size fits nobody.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 06:19 AM   #1169
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 32,599
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I am not fooled.

As Feynman said, “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool.”
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 12:46 PM   #1170
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Quite. Constitutional Law is a thing in the UK...
And I find it fascinating. As I may have said in another thread, the standard law student's text in the U.S. for constitutional law is 1700 pages long and weighs over 3 kg. And now that I actually opened it, I see that it's part one of some indeterminate number of parts, as it takes us only through the articles and up to the First Amendment.

Quote:
It simply is not set down in one document.

It is embodied in an expanse of law, precedence and what have you spanning centuries.
Indeed, it's not even from one source. Here we have the one documentary constitution and a pile of court decisions that shape how to apply it in various cases. That's a manageable variety of sources.

I think the supremacy of Parliament is a big compensator in the Westminster system. Congress is not supreme in the Madison-Hamilton system, but it's quite powerful. In contrast, the branches of Westminster government are not coequal. Parliament can simply do whatever it wants, and that constitutes as good as you need. It would be a mistake, I think, to try to encode in a single static document what has clearly -- for hundreds of years -- relied upon a living, moving council to achieve.

In terms of the judiciary, it is worthwhile to note the differences, but also instructive to delve a little deeper. The French system that includes judges of inquiry has its analogue in the American system in the forms of grand juries and preliminary hearings. There is no judge for grand juries, but there is for a preliminary hearing. It's usually the judge that will hear the case, but it may also be a separate magistrate judge. Unlike other systems, a preliminary hearing is adversarial. The defendant is present there, but not in a grand jury hearing. They meet in secret.

In all those cases, the goal is to vet the charges according to some authority other than the prosecutor. The methods are different. The cast of characters is different. But that's what we're trying to do. We want to make sure there is some credible evidence to the charges before we take the step of formally charging someone with them.

And that's what we're trying to do here with PartSkeptic and his radio woes. All we've done is to propose a preliminary investigation to see whether there is value in pursuing it further. Sadly he's trying to complicate it into never happening. What can be said about a system where charges and evidence remain forever tentative and ambiguous? For someone who claims to know so much about how legal systems work, he's undermining one of their key features.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 10:50 PM   #1171
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
The UK does not have a constitution. Period. One cannot cite an article of a written legal constitution.

I have appealed a case (assisting a self-represented litigant) in New Zealand and I have taken two appeals to the South African Constitutional court (one direct and one via the Appeals Court). I can tell you there is a massive difference both in procedure and in protection (in theory). The protections in the SA constitution enabled a huge advance in settled case law in a very short time.

I speak from experience. Cite any peer-reviewed papers you want, there is a serious difference. One could say that justice in served in any country - but there are shades of protection.

Why try to distort the UK system to be equivalent to the SA system? They are not.
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**

Last edited by PartSkeptic; 29th June 2020 at 10:52 PM.
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 11:17 PM   #1172
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Back to my prediction that the pandemic is going to impact the global system very badly and lead to systemic changes to stop over-population.

I said early on the pandemic would be sneaky and have a stealth spread. That is happening. Did anyone predict that aspect of this pandemic. No. To quote a high-up official "No-one saw this coming". Wrong. I did.

One of the reason I stated for the sneak attack would be so that the elite could not avoid it. In the 1918 Spanish Flu, very few of the elite were affected. That will change. The SA politicians dread getting this. Most are excessively over-weight and probably have diabetes, high-blood pressure and possibly AIDs. We could see a "cleansing" here. Politicians operate without consequence here. They do not believe in the afterlife so they do not fear the long-term consequences. They should.

In addition, there are factors that are helping the spread. When I heard early on that masks were not effective I argued with a group that they were. The lack of masks and the lack of worry about them in the USA is going to impact that country very badly.

While Covid-19 is deadly enough, it is the damage to economies and the social unrest that will make the total effect something that will be a near-apocalypse. When people are dying of hunger, they have no fear of attacking the elite.

We might just see a major war. God gave me no details, but if one starts with the simple message, then an intelligent person can extrapolate and predict knowing how over-populated societies react when under pressure.

From the beginning, my wife and I were wearing N95 industrial masks. Sometimes we were the only ones with a mask. My wife was in a local Woolworths food store with her mask when she heard the manager telling his unprotected staff that he thought that masks were a silly over-reaction. She was annoyed that he was so vocal about it in her presence. That manager is now fighting for his life in intensive care. Although the store now has an excessive measure of protection. Face masks, face shields, plastic barriers, and lots of sanitizing, we will not shop there.

This last week has been bad for me. I have been excessively tired. I discovered that my oxygen feed that I use at night had gotten blocked. It has taken two nights but I am very aware of the difference.

In India they battle to get oxygen bottles. Bottled oxygen is a very inefficient and expensive way to get oxygen. It gets used up very quickly. The flow rate must be between 2 and 4 liters per minute. Do the calculation on how long a small or large bottle lasts. I was shocked. It is hours not days.

I am sending out emails to friends and family on measures which may save their life. Some of it would be branded "fake news". But I know it works and I know how it works. No point in repeating here, although I have mentioned some of them before.
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**

Last edited by PartSkeptic; 29th June 2020 at 11:18 PM.
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 11:31 PM   #1173
EvilBiker
Graduate Poster
 
EvilBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,255
Yeah, whatever.

Let us know when you‘ve done the test we proposed and you agreed to.
__________________
Flat Earth Theory:
The unfortunate result of ordering pizza to satisfy munchies after smoking way too much weed to bring you down from that hectic acid trip.
EvilBiker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 11:32 PM   #1174
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
(snip)
And that's what we're trying to do here with PartSkeptic and his radio woes. All we've done is to propose a preliminary investigation to see whether there is value in pursuing it further. Sadly he's trying to complicate it into never happening. What can be said about a system where charges and evidence remain forever tentative and ambiguous? For someone who claims to know so much about how legal systems work, he's undermining one of their key features.

I know what standard of evidence is required. What I also know that even if Jesus testified as an expert witness I could not win in the Courts of Justice. I am aiming at the Court of Public Opinion to show how corrupt and captured the SA system is. And prove the harm of EMF in that forum.

The tests will happen. On my own time and terms. And not because of attempts here to pressure me by shaming and taunts.

I do not need a double blind test to know the radiation affects me and how. You guys do. But even then you have been explicit about not accepting the results for a number of reasons - even before the tests are done. I have a long term plan and will follow that. The negativity on this thread has taught me just how biased humankind can be - and for the most part, is. The polarization is amazing. Facts do not matter. Just make them up as counter-arguments. Attack and slander anyone with a different opinion.

I now think that EMFs have affected the world much more than it realizes. People do not understand the changes. They know something is wrong. They blame everything but EMFs. People are stressed and depressed. Their thinking is negative. Their logic is impaired. Their physical health is declining. Hence the need for a God created "clean-up".
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**

Last edited by PartSkeptic; 29th June 2020 at 11:34 PM.
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 11:37 PM   #1175
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,222
A Telco built a cell tower without the necessary permissions and in violation of regulations and, after community action, removed it and payed (NDA protected) damages. So far, so unsurprising. Unless there's a good reason to think any of it was connected to health issues related to EMF (and no, the OP's suspicions and beliefs are not a good reason) it's off topic for this thread.

Discussions about the constitutions of different countries are also off topic.

So yes, let us by all means get back on topic.

Have you done the dry run yet, PartSkeptic?

Are you ever going to answer the polite questions as to how and why you apparently plan to incorporate instrumental measurements into the simple blind test protocol needed to establish if your claim to be able to tell whether or not the wifi is on or off is correct? Note it doesn't matter if you can't tell every time, a hit rate better than chance is all that's required to justify further, more rigorous, testing.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th June 2020, 11:40 PM   #1176
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,222
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I do not need a double blind test to know the radiation affects me and how.
Of course you do. If you were really as smart and knowledgeable as you keep telling us you are you would understand why.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 02:08 AM   #1177
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 32,599
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I know what standard of evidence is required. What I also know that even if Jesus testified as an expert witness I could not win in the Courts of Justice.

How would the expert evidence of a carpenter be relevant?

Quote:
I am aiming at the Court of Public Opinion to show how corrupt and captured the SA system is. And prove the harm of EMF in that forum.

You’re aiming for a forum that is susceptible to propaganda rather than evidence.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 02:11 AM   #1178
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 32,599
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I do not need a double blind test to know the radiation affects me and how.

See the quotation from Feynman above.[/quote]
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 03:37 AM   #1179
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,413
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post

I am not fooled. I know the standard of evidence required for court. I just had no idea that a judge would make decisions that flew in the face of what he was presented with.
Not supported by the court documents, and directly contradicting your other claim about how 'impressed' the judge was in your secret meeting with him, in which he said he was going to order the tower shut down before the hearing had even started.


Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Some-one told me I should have had the police witness my test of the tower being on illegally. Since when does a citizen require evidence to be on the same standard as a murder trial. Even there, they accept witness testimony.
Possibly because you rejected all the testimony showing the tower was powered off, including a statement from the electricity company proving no power was used on those days.
Once again, you seem to assume that if you claim something, it is automatically true, and does not require any supporting evidence. If anyone contradicts you, you simply refuse to accept their evidence, for no reason other than you don't like it.
I think it only fair that both sides of this case should be help accountable to the same standards of argument and evidence. Being asked to support your claims with evidence is entirely reasonable.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
But I have been "helped" by the way the Respondents went about it. The evidence trail is quite clear, and they cannot hide it.
Great. Then show where that evidence trail is in the documents you linked to.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
There is only one reason to turn on the tower illegally and then try to cover it up. Tell me why you think they did it? If you try to tell me they did not turn it on, then you are not helping - just throwing doubt where there is none.
No. You claim, without evidence, that the tower was turned on, and then expect others to simply believe you and provide reasons why this unproven thing should have happened.
You first need to establish that the tower was, in fact, turned on.
Can you do that, and can you disprove the counter-claim from Atlas?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 05:50 AM   #1180
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The UK does not have a constitution. Period. One cannot cite an article of a written legal constitution.
Hm, should I trust you on that point? Or the UK Supreme Court? Which of you two should the world consider the expert on the subject? Since the PM accepted the judgment of the court -- which was predicated entirely on constitutional grounds, citing many of the documents they regard as belonging to the constitution -- and apologized to Her Majesty on that basis, I guess they have him fooled too.

This. This is what we mean. You're literally unable to consider the possibility you might be wrong on any subject.

Quote:
I speak from experience. Cite any peer-reviewed papers you want, there is a serious difference.
You don't speak from experience. And you don't seem to recognize any authority but your own on the subject. This is why we don't take you seriously.

Quote:
Why try to distort the UK system to be equivalent to the SA system?
Literally no one did this.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 05:53 AM   #1181
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 32,599
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Hm, should I trust you on that point? Or the UK Supreme Court? Which of you two should the world consider the expert on the subject?

Perhaps you should ask a carpenter.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 05:55 AM   #1182
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 32,599
Anyway, PartSkeptic, you seem to have missed this one again:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
PartSkeptic, what is the reason for your suggested protocol including taking measurements? Why do you require “more instrumentation” to carry out a test that involves having a modem turned on or off and you deciding, using nothing more than your own senses, which it is?

Any chance of an answer?
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 06:11 AM   #1183
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I know what standard of evidence is required.
That's as may be, but you're unwilling to meet it. You're even unwilling to meet the lower standard of evidence your critics said they would accept.

Quote:
What I also know that even if Jesus testified as an expert witness I could not win in the Courts of Justice.
You claim this, but you're unable to reconcile it with the evidence you yourself provided that the courts acted according to the evidence in your case.

Quote:
I am aiming at the Court of Public Opinion to show how corrupt and captured the SA system is.
You lost, so you're on a tirade to spread propaganda. Why should you think that would impress skeptics? Earlier you claimed the science was incontrovertible, and you asked us to evaluate it scientifically. Now you're pretty much admitting that you're really just on a political crusade. You need to decide what it is you're really trying to do. Of course you don't want to do an experiment. It might derail the crusade.

Quote:
And prove the harm of EMF in that forum.
You're looking for a forum that validates your belief, even if you have to keep lowering your standards. That's not science or law. That's just narcissism. In a weird way, I suspect you feel this forum validates your belief because you can claim persecution at the hands of people you're falling all over yourself to claim are working for The Enemy. This forum makes you relevant when no other forum will.

Quote:
The tests will happen. On my own time and terms. And not because of attempts here to pressure me by shaming and taunts.
You agreed to do the test on terms we all agree upon.. Then you backed out. You were cordial until it looked as if the test was actually going to happen. You were only content with the idea when it was a vague, abstract proposition.

Quote:
I do not need a double blind test to know the radiation affects me and how.
Then you don't know what standard of proof is required.

Quote:
You guys do.
No, it's not personal. That's just how science works on questions like this. It's not a case of PartSkeptic v. The Meanies at ISF. It's a case of your unwillingness to attempt even a small amount of dispassionate criticism against something you very much want to believe.

Quote:
But even then you have been explicit about not accepting the results for a number of reasons - even before the tests are done.
The "number of reasons" are the fairly obvious attempts on your part either to muddy up or cheat the experiment, which are excellent grounds not to accept the results, whatever they may be. We state our objection before the fact so that you can know it's on methodological grounds and simply not because we didn't like the answer.

You refuse to do the test not because you fear it lacks scientific merit -- you don't care about science -- but because you're afraid you might fail. I pointed out how this sort of thinking has run in your family. Other people in your family believed themselves to have extraordinary ability, but refused to be tested. When they finally were, they failed.

Quote:
The negativity on this thread...
Oh, get over yourself. The "negativity" on this thread is why you're here. You're looking to be challenged by skeptics so you can whine about how persecuted you are. We stopped buying it years ago. If you really hated the response you're getting here, you'd stop coming. But you come here year after year to boast, and then play the palooka.

Quote:
Attack and slander anyone with a different opinion.
You are being challenged because you have made claims you refuse to prove. They are not opinions, but rather allegations of fact. Challenging controversial ideas what skeptics do, and that's why you're here. We participate because we enjoy critical thinking. You participate because you seem to enjoy being persecuted and whining.

As for perceived slander, you vaunt yourself in ways that are simply not true. Showing the evidence that they are not true may hurt your ego, but it's not slander. You are not entitled to a falsely positive reputation.

Quote:
I now think that EMFs have affected the world much more than it realizes. People do not understand the changes. They know something is wrong. They blame everything but EMFs. People are stressed and depressed. Their thinking is negative. Their logic is impaired. Their physical health is declining. Hence the need for a God created "clean-up".
Tell it to the Marines.

Last edited by JayUtah; 30th June 2020 at 08:02 AM.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 06:12 AM   #1184
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 20,510
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The UK does not have a constitution. Period. One cannot cite an article of a written legal constitution.
It is because you insist on being this level of wrong that your credibility evaporates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...United_Kingdom
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 06:29 AM   #1185
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
It is because you insist on being this level of wrong that your credibility evaporates.
It's a pretty ham-fisted pivot attempt. That is, he's straw-manned the claim to say that there's no one written document that can be cited, and pretending the claim his critics made was that the UK was equivalent in that respect to a single-document-constitution country like South Africa. Half the battle with PartSkeptic is just trying to get him to address something besides the fantasy argument playing out in his head.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 07:06 AM   #1186
Cat Not Included
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post

I said early on the pandemic would be sneaky and have a stealth spread. That is happening. Did anyone predict that aspect of this pandemic. No. To quote a high-up official "No-one saw this coming". Wrong. I did.
Wait...what? 'Did anyone predict that aspect"? Yes, yes, pretty much everyone knowledgeable did. This is practically a textbook pandemic situation. The current incoming White House team was presented with a training scenario very close to it. Doctors, the CDC and scientists have been talking for years about the major threat posed by a disease with low initial symptoms being able to spread rapidly. There's a flippin' flash game on Kongregate that went up in 2009 that clearly demonstrates this.

I don't know specifically what "high-up official" you are quoting, but the one I'm aware of who did say it is the blithering moron in the White House. As usual, he was completely wrong and completely inept on the topic.
Cat Not Included is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 07:08 AM   #1187
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 14,446
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Back to my prediction that the pandemic is going to impact the global system very badly and lead to systemic changes to stop over-population.

I said early on the pandemic would be sneaky and have a stealth spread. That is happening. Did anyone predict that aspect of this pandemic. No. To quote a high-up official "No-one saw this coming". Wrong. I did.
Your high up official is lacking a clue. The experts have been predicting this for decades.

Ninja'ed!
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
My authority is total - Trump
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 07:32 AM   #1188
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,413
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Hm, should I trust you on that point? Or the UK Supreme Court? Which of you two should the world consider the expert on the subject? Since the PM accepted the judgment of the court -- which was predicated entirely on constitutional grounds, citing many of the documents they regard as belonging to the constitution -- and apologized to Her Majesty on that basis, I guess they have him fooled too.

This. This is what we mean. You're literally unable to consider the possibility you might be wrong on any subject.
Absolutely.
It's the same thing with this court case. PartSkeptic maintains that the tower was not switched off, and everyone that says it was is lying, because his symptoms persisted during this period.
The other possibility, that the towers were indeed switched off, and that therefore his symptoms are not, in fact, related to EMF, simply hasn't occurred to him.
Just to add to your other point: PartSkeptic, I am not saying you are stupid, or ignorant, or incompetent. I am just suggesting that you might be mistaken.
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:05 AM   #1189
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Since part of the thread is harm by big companies who use the courts to get their way, this is both funny and educational.

Tobacco: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
19,329,037 views
Feb 16, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsHHOCH4q8

It is also a reminder of how companies promote their product to get profit before health. And the dumb public are taken in.

The remark by the tobacco executive admitting that while smoking by pregnant woman caused smaller babies, some women might prefer smaller babies.

To which I add, while EMFs cause brain-damage, the elite prefer a dumber population because they will be less trouble. Give them their opioids, marijuana and their cell phones.

The irony is that the world is using more cell phones because of Covid-19 and this in turn causes more deaths. And probably more flu mutations - such as the new H1N1 G4 just waiting to be mutated in humans with lowered immune systems. Another irony is that the curse "May you live in interesting times" also comes from China.
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:08 AM   #1190
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Since part of the thread is...
"Quick, let's ignore all the other posts and change the subject."
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:09 AM   #1191
Rincewind
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adirondacks, NY - with Magrat!
Posts: 8,376
you write this paragraph earlier:

I said early on the pandemic would be sneaky and have a stealth spread. That is happening. Did anyone predict that aspect of this pandemic. No. To quote a high-up official "No-one saw this coming". Wrong. I did.

As you 'said early on' means that you didn't predict it.
__________________
I used to think I was happy. then I met Magrat...
Rincewind is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:21 AM   #1192
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Absolutely.
It's the same thing with this court case. PartSkeptic maintains that the tower was not switched off, and everyone that says it was is lying, because his symptoms persisted during this period.
The other possibility, that the towers were indeed switched off, and that therefore his symptoms are not, in fact, related to EMF, simply hasn't occurred to him.
Just to add to your other point: PartSkeptic, I am not saying you are stupid, or ignorant, or incompetent. I am just suggesting that you might be mistaken.

I had a meter which is totally reliable. My wife got symptoms and asked me to measure. The meter is directional so there was no doubt. The reading showed it was operating at full power (about 3,000 uW/sqm). Even if every tower in the area was at full strength the value could never be above about 4 uW/sqm because of the inverse square law. I only had severe symptoms afterwards. Now how can I be mistaken?

Do you not realize that you jump to bad conclusions because of your bias?

The judge said he accepted the metering companies evidence because they are a big corporate and as such they were the better witness.

I will be laying a police complaint of statutory perjury because the "evidence" the company provided DOES show the tower had to be on for 36 hours during the month of January 2019. They distorted the graph so it was not immediately obvious but a careful analysis makes it clear. You know how the magician does the trick - he tells you what he wants you to see. The power company invoice will also show 36 hours of power instead of 1 hour of testing.

The judge did not follow the law - which was that in such cases where people offer contradicting evidence on such a critical point he should have asked for verbal testimony or further evidence. But wait. This issue is not dead - far from it. You may even read about it in the media.
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**

Last edited by PartSkeptic; 30th June 2020 at 08:23 AM.
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:24 AM   #1193
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 12,222
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
To which I add, while EMFs cause brain-damage, the elite prefer a dumber population because they will be less trouble.
"The elite" evidently prefer to be dumber themselves too, and for their parents, children and friends to also suffer brain damage.

Do you ever stop to think through the implications of any of the nonsense you spout?
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

Last edited by Pixel42; 30th June 2020 at 08:26 AM.
Pixel42 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:24 AM   #1194
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Your high up official is lacking a clue. The experts have been predicting this for decades.

Ninja'ed!

Really. Prove it. Why was there no preparation?
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:27 AM   #1195
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
It's a pretty ham-fisted pivot attempt. That is, he's straw-manned the claim to say that there's no one written document that can be cited, and pretending the claim his critics made was that the UK was equivalent in that respect to a single-document-constitution country like South Africa. Half the battle with PartSkeptic is just trying to get him to address something besides the fantasy argument playing out in his head.

And do you think your post is a sincere attempt to help me?

Am I deluding myself that you are being insulting?
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:32 AM   #1196
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
It is because you insist on being this level of wrong that your credibility evaporates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...United_Kingdom

Your link:

The neutrality of the style of writing in this article is questioned.

The UK constitution is not contained in a single code, but principles have emerged over the centuries from statute, case law, political conventions and social consensus. In this sense, it can be said that the United Kingdom does not have a constitution or a basic law.


It either does or it does not. My statement is either true or false. It is not a Schrodinger Cat. My statement is true despite your attempt at spin.

You did say you are bathed in radiation. Your confused thinking may be a symptom of too much emf. Or maybe you are just that way.
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**

Last edited by PartSkeptic; 30th June 2020 at 08:33 AM.
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:37 AM   #1197
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
 
PartSkeptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 3,498
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
"The elite" evidently prefer to be dumber themselves too, and for their parents, children and friends to also suffer brain damage.

Do you ever stop to think through the implications of any of the nonsense you spout?

I did think of it. And you quite rightly picked it up. The elite are not part of a conspiracy. I was stating an opinion of what I think is "class think". They do not realize they are at risk, although some do. They do not have towers nears them because they do not fit into the elite suburb.
__________________
**Agnostic theist. God/Satan/Angels/Demons may not exist - but I choose to think the probability is that they do. By personal experience.**
PartSkeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:41 AM   #1198
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
And do you think your post is a sincere attempt to help me?
No, it was a sincere attempt to analyze and rebut your argument. I pointed out that it was a straw man, in that it attributed an argument your critics that they had not, in fact, made. But it evidently was an argument you felt would be easier to answer. I further noted that this is a common way for you to respond to your critics. All of that falls under the umbrella of critical thinking.

Quote:
Am I deluding myself that you are being insulting?
Report the post and find out for yourself. Otherwise stop trying so very hard to be a victim. The whining does grow so very tiresome...
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:46 AM   #1199
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It either does or it does not.
No. The article quoted, and the discussion that ensued among us prior to the quote, addressed the question of a constitution being a nuanced concept. That persists, despite your narrow thinking.

Quote:
My statement is true despite your attempt at spin.
Citing authority that disputes you is not "spin." The best you can come up with is a passage that emphasizes the ambiguity you're trying to very hard to pretend doesn't exist.

Quote:
You did say you are bathed in radiation. Your confused thinking may be a symptom of too much emf. Or maybe you are just that way.
You haven't shown anyone else's thinking is confused. You've just issued an edict and demanded that you must be right. In that sense you falling into the pattern of ill reasoning that several have noted: if you think a thing, it must be true even if incontrovertible fact says otherwise.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:47 AM   #1200
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,644
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
They do not have towers nears them because they do not fit into the elite suburb.
I live in a fairly affluent neighborhood, and I have a 5G tower 100 meters from my front door. Next silly claim?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:47 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.