ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus , Herman Cain , obituaries , presidential candidates

Reply
Old 31st July 2020, 11:59 AM   #161
rdwight
Muse
 
rdwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 620
There does seem to be more celebration in regards to death by stupidity vs death by criminal activity. Unless of course the criminal activity is really stupid itself. Not sure why that is but it's not a new trend by any means.
rdwight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 12:01 PM   #162
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,787
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
An overly-litigious family member should do contact tracing, figure out how he got it, and then maybe sue the whole chain of command that pulled the social distancing stickers off of the seats in the arena.

ETA - those stickers were part of the "current guidance."
IIRC attendees had to sign a waver that would prevent them from suing Trump or his campaign if they got sick.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 12:04 PM   #163
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 56,534
Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
There does seem to be more celebration in regards to death by stupidity vs death by criminal activity. Unless of course the criminal activity is really stupid itself. Not sure why that is but it's not a new trend by any means.
We should celebrate every death equally. That's the mature, civilized approach.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 12:04 PM   #164
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 82,209
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Or he could have been the super spreader at that event, couldn't he?


That makes the incubation period even longer.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 12:06 PM   #165
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 82,209
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Agreed. I hope Cain's last waking moments were filled with fear. Same for any other of these ghouls that have spread misinformation about Covid.
Fear was not necessary. It's very sad he died alone.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 12:12 PM   #166
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,658
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


That makes the incubation period even longer.

Yes, but we know that this virus sometimes works in mysterious ways! (I think it's more likely that he got infected at the rally or soon after.)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 12:19 PM   #167
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,156
I don't bear Herman Cain any ill will due to the fact that he was wrong about so many things. What got me is his 2011 statement that he didn't know who the president of "Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan" was. It's the way he deliberately mangled the name. I didn't expect him to have the CIA World Factbook memorized but this was an unforced error.

I wonder if he had time to reflect on his Covid-19 statements while on his deathbed.

ETA: I will never understand why some people seem proud of their ignorance.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 12:33 PM   #168
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 14,573
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I don't bear Herman Cain any ill will due to the fact that he was wrong about so many things. What got me is his 2011 statement that he didn't know who the president of "Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan" was. It's the way he deliberately mangled the name. I didn't expect him to have the CIA World Factbook memorized but this was an unforced error.

I wonder if he had time to reflect on his Covid-19 statements while on his deathbed.

ETA: I will never understand why some people seem proud of their ignorance.
This is one of the main reasons I loathe these people. They unabashedly disdain knowledge and embrace ignorance. Cain reveled in it. He was a proto Trump.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
My authority is total - Trump
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 01:13 PM   #169
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,156
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
This is one of the main reasons I loathe these people. They unabashedly disdain knowledge and embrace ignorance. Cain reveled in it. He was a proto Trump.
Sometimes I envy people who are so unconcerned about being flat-out wrong whenever they open their mouths.

Not usually though.

ETA: He may actually have rehearsed that answer, because the question was about how he was going to field "gotcha" questions - a question he presumably prepared for.

Last edited by Minoosh; 31st July 2020 at 01:22 PM.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 01:15 PM   #170
MarkCorrigan
Winter is Coming
 
MarkCorrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,733
That's what annoys me too. Not knowing something is fine, noone knows everything afterall. It's when you're proud of not knowing, or even worse, when someone informs you of something you claim they're lying.
__________________
Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz

Now I lay me down to sleep, a bag of peanuts at my feet.
If I die before I wake, give them to my brother Jake.
MarkCorrigan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 02:26 PM   #171
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 30,043
Somehow "kids rarely suffer badly" morphed into "kids don't get it." I don't know what planet of fraud or ignorance that came from.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 02:53 PM   #172
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,909
Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Somehow "kids rarely suffer badly" morphed into "kids don't get it." I don't know what planet of fraud or ignorance that came from.
I assumed it was "kids rarely suffer badly so let them get it, who cares, herd immunity" combined with a complete misunderstanding of how communicable diseases work.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 03:01 PM   #173
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,675
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I assumed it was "kids rarely suffer badly so let them get it, who cares, herd immunity" combined with a complete misunderstanding of how communicable diseases work.
Especially now that we know that kids with COVID emit virus at 5-100x the concentration of adults.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/h...-children.html
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 03:01 PM   #174
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,690
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I assumed it was "kids rarely suffer badly so let them get it, who cares, herd immunity" combined with a complete misunderstanding of how communicable diseases work.
So long as the kids don't have parents or teachers, what is the problem?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 03:05 PM   #175
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 28,414
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
I’m not sure if failure to use a mask should qualify for a Darwin Award. The mask isn’t intended to protect the wearer, so someone refusing to wear on then dyeing from COVID-19 is more of a “got what they deserved” thing than a “done in by their own stupidity” thing.
Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
It most certainly is. Wearing a mask does not, in any way, protect you from contracting the virus. While I will accept that wearing a mask would have made it more socially acceptable for whoever spread it to wear his or her mask, he could have still caught it following all of the current guidance.

If he only had a meal with his beer, that might have made a difference (CA). Or not drinking after 11 PM, that might have helped (OH).
Depends on the mask. An N-95 with an exhaust valve definitely WILL help protect the wearer, although the protection it affords to others is lessened by the valve. An N-95 without a valve protects both. I'm considering going back to an N-95 (with valve) when I go to the store to help protect my extremely vulnerable wife. If I get ambitious I can probably even disable the valve.

In Cain's case, he was surrounded by 6000 other maskless idiots. His poor decision wasn't so much not wearing a mask, but attending at all.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 03:08 PM   #176
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,675
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Depends on the mask. An N-95 with an exhaust valve definitely WILL help protect the wearer, although the protection it affords to others is lessened by the valve. An N-95 without a valve protects both. I'm considering going back to an N-95 (with valve) when I go to the store to help protect my extremely vulnerable wife. If I get ambitious I can probably even disable the valve.

In Cain's case, he was surrounded by 6000 other maskless idiots. His poor decision wasn't so much not wearing a mask, but attending at all.
This is false. ANY mask that keeps droplets from reaching the wearer's mouth or nose is protective. It simply is not 100% effective. It's still better than no mask at all.
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 03:10 PM   #177
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,015
Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Somehow "kids rarely suffer badly" morphed into "kids don't get it." I don't know what planet of fraud or ignorance that came from.
Exactly! The kids today just don't get it!!
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 03:14 PM   #178
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 28,414
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
This is false. ANY mask that keeps droplets from reaching the wearer's mouth or nose is protective. It simply is not 100% effective. It's still better than no mask at all.
Ok, I can buy that.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 04:03 PM   #179
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,059
This is an example of a Black man behaving badly and bringing death upon himself? I think we all wondered, 'How will trump devotees attempt to spin this?' Now we know. Predictably, they played the race card.

I think most peoples' problem with Herman Cain began even BEFORE he was reported ill. It was that he was urging people to ignore medical advice in the midst of a deadly epidemic of historic proportions, a pretty crappy thing to be doing. We have a new virus that doctors do not completely understand, not yet anyway. It is an exceptionally deadly virus and extremely contagious. Medical professionals at all levels urge people to take precautions. Wear a face mask. Practice social distancing. Especially in locales that are experiencing an upsurge in cases, do not attend crowded social events if you can possibly avoid them.

That's not political ideology, that's medical advice.

But people like the talking heads on Fox News, that crud in the White House and, yes, Herman Cain, are telling people the opposite. That it IS political rhetoric. That the doctors are full of baloney. (Dr. Fauci now has police protection because he received so many death threats.) Viewed 'rationally,' that is a dangerous, irresponsible thing to be doing. Like buying a pack of smokes for someone under treatment for lung cancer and urging them to, "Go ahead and light up. Cigarettes don't cause cancer; they're quality products!"

Now one of the leading provocateurs got caught up by his own rhetoric, not only becoming infected with coronavirus but ultimately being killed by it. If that ain't cosmic justice I don't what would be.
newyorkguy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 07:11 PM   #180
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 25,616
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
This is an example of a Black man behaving badly and bringing death upon himself? I think we all wondered, 'How will trump devotees attempt to spin this?' Now we know. Predictably, they played the race card.

I think most peoples' problem with Herman Cain began even BEFORE he was reported ill. It was that he was urging people to ignore medical advice in the midst of a deadly epidemic of historic proportions, a pretty crappy thing to be doing. We have a new virus that doctors do not completely understand, not yet anyway. It is an exceptionally deadly virus and extremely contagious. Medical professionals at all levels urge people to take precautions. Wear a face mask. Practice social distancing. Especially in locales that are experiencing an upsurge in cases, do not attend crowded social events if you can possibly avoid them.

That's not political ideology, that's medical advice.

But people like the talking heads on Fox News, that crud in the White House and, yes, Herman Cain, are telling people the opposite. That it IS political rhetoric. That the doctors are full of baloney. (Dr. Fauci now has police protection because he received so many death threats.) Viewed 'rationally,' that is a dangerous, irresponsible thing to be doing. Like buying a pack of smokes for someone under treatment for lung cancer and urging them to, "Go ahead and light up. Cigarettes don't cause cancer; they're quality products!"

Now one of the leading provocateurs got caught up by his own rhetoric, not only becoming infected with coronavirus but ultimately being killed by it. If that ain't cosmic justice I don't what would be.
I thought very much thought the COVID virus was a gift to Donald Trump. It presented an opportunity for real leadership or at least an opportunity to look like a leader. If handled even moderately well Trump would win reelection in a walk.

But Trump being Trump, he made not wearing a mask a statement of freedom and how he knew better than doctors and scientists who made the study of infectious diseases their life's work. The President of the United States was encouraging rebellion as well a promoted not only wishful thinking that COVID would just go away but quack cures.

And nothing demonstrated his incompetence and insanity more than his crazy remarks juxtaposed with Governor Cuomo and Dr. Fauci's calm reason.

If ever the Emperor showed his reign was a vapid and empty sham, it was this.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 07:32 PM   #181
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,089
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Hermann Cain is pretty high profile in the MAGA world. Who's do you think will be the next heavy hitter to die of covid? S
Gohmert
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 08:08 PM   #182
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,909
Question

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I thought very much thought the COVID virus was a gift to Donald Trump. It presented an opportunity for real leadership or at least an opportunity to look like a leader. If handled even moderately well Trump would win reelection in a walk.

But Trump being Trump, he made not wearing a mask a statement of freedom and how he knew better than doctors and scientists who made the study of infectious diseases their life's work. The President of the United States was encouraging rebellion as well a promoted not only wishful thinking that COVID would just go away but quack cures.

And nothing demonstrated his incompetence and insanity more than his crazy remarks juxtaposed with Governor Cuomo and Dr. Fauci's calm reason.

If ever the Emperor showed his reign was a vapid and empty sham, it was this.
It didn't start with the masks, though. He literally couldn't tolerate shutting down all non-essential business for a couple days before he started calling for reopening. That's what ensured that we were screwed. Add in the resistance to testing and we never had a chance.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 08:25 PM   #183
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 25,616
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It didn't start with the masks, though. He literally couldn't tolerate shutting down all non-essential business for a couple days before he started calling for reopening. That's what ensured that we were screwed. Add in the resistance to testing and we never had a chance.
Yes. If Trump had taken this very seriously on day one and shut the country down from coast to coast for 2 to 4 weeks, This might have had barely a fraction of the damage.

It's not an exaggeration to say that Trump's bumbling incompetence will cost this country trillions of dollars and a quarter of a million lives. If not more.

Sadly, Trump wasn't joking when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his supporters would still be there behind him. It turns out he can kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and many still won't care.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 11:39 PM   #184
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,658
Bryan Tyler Cohen (July 31, 2020):
Trump confronted on his call to delay the election, gives HORRIFIC response
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 12:40 AM   #185
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 14,398
I agree that he never had any serious intentions of trying to postpone the election; it's all about distraction and, more importantly, sowing the seeds of doubt about the legitimacy of the outcome of the election if he loses.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 01:10 AM   #186
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 13,719
... and possibly also throwing out feelers on what kind of mental contortions high-profile Republicans are willing to do to support him.
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 02:40 AM   #187
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 90,814
"Fake news. But in this case it's not fake it's true."

He couldn't be more transparent.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 04:12 AM   #188
Safe-Keeper
Philosopher
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 9,390
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sadly, Trump wasn't joking when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his supporters would still be there behind him. It turns out he can kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and many still won't care.
No, that's the problem. Without social media, Trump would've never stood a chance. But with comfy post-fact echo chambers that reshape the world around you for you, spinning, lying, and omitting as neccessary? Trumpkins will tell you with a totally straight face that Trump has done more to fight the virus than anyone else in the world. Because, er, he shut the border with China.

I'm sure that asking them for a list of all the things he's done, to quantify the claim that he's done more than anyone else, would have been answered with a "could Biden have done a better job?".

ETA: also, the fact that they never fail to hold every Trump opponent accountable for their actions, while every gaffe or mistake or terrible thing that comes out of Trump's mouth is just sarcasm, jokes, trolling of libs, and locker room talk.
__________________
"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs
"If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 1st August 2020 at 04:14 AM.
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 05:28 AM   #189
Sherkeu
Graduate Poster
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,490
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
So much for Trump's claims that children (the younger the better) are practically immune to and not spreaders of Covid 19.

In June, a Georgia summer camp had to shut on after children and staff tested positive for the virus. All had arrived at the camp with recent negative test proof. Only the staffers, not the children, wore masks and increased ventilation was not followed. Within a week, a staffer became sick and half the camp attendees were tested again. The positive test percentages:

Ages 6-10: 51% Ages 11-17: 44% Ages 18-21: 33%

Source: CNN
If it was a 2 week camp, it actually sounds like a good idea. Just keep them there a bit longer maybe.
All of those age groups have less chance of dying than the flu.
Whoever brought it to camp, didnt give it to an older population.

eta:
the studies I have seen have very low transmission below 10 years old.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 1st August 2020 at 05:30 AM.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 07:02 AM   #190
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22,950
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Bryan Tyler Cohen (July 31, 2020):
Trump confronted on his call to delay the election, gives HORRIFIC response
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Do you have a time code for the specific response? I'm not sitting through 8 full minutes of that loser. Or did he just ramble for 8 minutes? I know he can do it.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 09:27 AM   #191
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,059
Two months ago I was on a bank line with two women who'd had coronavirus and recovered. One was probably in her fifties, the other in her twenties. Both described the same experience. They were sick for 10-14 days including a 2-3 day period when they were very sick. Both had congestion but neither experienced trouble breathing. The woman in her twenties said one day she felt so weak she had to crawl to get to her bathroom. That was the day, she said, she began to wonder if she was going to survive it. What do you say to people like this? I told them I was sorry to hear they'd been so ill and was happy for them that they had recovered. I added, "At least you've got immunity now." Both said their doctors had counseled caution, "That they don't really know yet if you can get coronavirus twice."

There is evidence you can. Below are quotes from a page on the health industry advisory board website:
Quote:
Since the coronavirus pandemic began, there have been reports from doctors throughout the world about recovered Covid-19 patients seemingly becoming reinfected with the novel coronavirus, leaving some people doubting whether humans can become immune to the virus. For instance, a physician in New Jersey has claimed that at least two of his Covid-19 patients had recovered from and tested negative for the coronavirus for months, but then started again experiencing symptoms of the disease and tested positive. One of those patients began showing symptoms of Covid-19 again after attending a party. "So that is … reinfection," the doctor said....Elitza Theel, director of the infectious diseases serology laboratory at the Mayo Clinic who was not involved in [a previously cited] study, said researchers are finding that coronavirus "antibodies will peak at about 20 to 30 days after symptom onset, and then they decline," and "They seem to decline much more rapidly in individuals that were asymptomatic or had mild forms of the disease." Advisory Board link
Doctors and researchers caution, however, that it's too early to draw definite conclusions.
Quote:
South Korea's Center for Disease Control and Prevention in one study confirmed that, among 285 cases of people who again tested positive for the coronavirus two months after receiving their initial positive test results (including some who were experiencing Covid-19 symptoms two months after their initial diagnoses), none of the patients' new samples contained enough virus particles to allow researchers to grow the virus from the samples in a lab. Researchers said those results indicated that the patients weren't actively infected with the virus, and the diagnostic tests likely had detected dead virus particles that remained in their bodies or generated false-positive positive results...However, while most experts say they don't think it's likely people can contract the coronavirus more than once within a short period of time, "no one wants to dismiss the possibility" of reinfection altogether, [Monica Gandhi, a professor of medicine and associate chief of infectious diseases at the University of California-San Francisco] said. And [Daniel Griffin, an infectious diseases doctor and researcher at Columbia University Medical Center] noted that, if researchers eventually find two different versions of the novel coronavirus' genetic code in one patient's body, it could point to two separate infections.
As has been pointed out many times, the less you know about something the easier it seems to understand. With ignorance comes ironclad certainty.
newyorkguy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 09:28 AM   #192
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,658
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
eta: the studies I have seen have very low transmission below 10 years old.

That is not what the new studies say.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 09:33 AM   #193
dann
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,658
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Do you have a time code for the specific response? I'm not sitting through 8 full minutes of that loser. Or did he just ramble for 8 minutes? I know he can do it.
Trump's rambling is from 0 to 4:20. Tyler Cohen begins commenting after that.

ETA: Sorry, that video was placed in the wrong thread.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 1st August 2020 at 09:54 AM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 10:07 AM   #194
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,059
Originally Posted by dann View Post
That is not what the new studies say.
Why I am I not surprised?
newyorkguy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 10:56 AM   #195
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 28,414
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Trump's rambling is from 0 to 4:20. Tyler Cohen begins commenting after that.

ETA: Sorry, that video was placed in the wrong thread.
I've posted it in the general Trump thread. Note that it wasn't a random question, he was prepared for it.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 11:50 AM   #196
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 14,398
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
If it was a 2 week camp, it actually sounds like a good idea. Just keep them there a bit longer maybe.
All of those age groups have less chance of dying than the flu.
Whoever brought it to camp, didnt give it to an older population.

eta:
the studies I have seen have very low transmission below 10 years old.
You're missing the point. Trump claimed that children are practically immune to Covid and not spreaders. The camp experience shows the exact opposite. While those in these age groups are less likely to die, it shows that they are not immune and do spread it. They can take it home to siblings with underlying health problems, parents and grandparents and anyone else they come in contact with.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 12:43 PM   #197
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 82,209
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
..." Both said their doctors had counseled caution, "That they don't really know yet if you can get coronavirus twice."

There is evidence you can. Below are quotes from a page on the health industry advisory board website:

Doctors and researchers caution, however, that it's too early to draw definite conclusions.

As has been pointed out many times, the less you know about something the easier it seems to understand. With ignorance comes ironclad certainty.
You've bled the science of COVID over here to the Cain thread. I addressed this over there. There is no evidence people are getting infected twice. Yes, we aren't sure. But these things being described are not evidence. See my posts in the other thread.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 12:45 PM   #198
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
 
shemp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: People's Democratic Republic of Planet X
Posts: 36,572
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You're missing the point. Trump claimed that children are practically immune to Covid and not spreaders. The camp experience shows the exact opposite. While those in these age groups are less likely to die, it shows that they are not immune and do spread it. They can take it home to siblings with underlying health problems, parents and grandparents and anyone else they come in contact with.
Ha! Fake news! People get Covid from demon sperm!
__________________
"Shemp, you are the one fixed point in an ever-changing universe." - Beady
"I don't want to live in a world without shemp." - Quarky
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
shemp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 12:48 PM   #199
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 82,209
Please can we take the medical stuff back to the medical thread? Thank you for your consideration.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2020, 12:58 PM   #200
Sherkeu
Graduate Poster
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,490
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You're missing the point. Trump claimed that children are practically immune to Covid and not spreaders. The camp experience shows the exact opposite. While those in these age groups are less likely to die, it shows that they are not immune and do spread it. They can take it home to siblings with underlying health problems, parents and grandparents and anyone else they come in contact with.
Sure.

But kids transmit less. We have a lot of other country data now that shows kids in school isn't a big risk. There will be risks no matter what.

However, I hope we do realize that keeping kids OUT of school is a bigger danger for society. The virus is not the only factor here.

I am positive that this virus lockdown has shaved a few years off of my own life...and i have not caught it yet.
Protect the elderly and those with health conditions. Let everyone else go on with reasonable safety measures.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 1st August 2020 at 01:01 PM.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:32 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.