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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 16th October 2020, 06:17 AM   #3481
Captain_Swoop
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Trump Tweets

There is a nasty rumor out there that @SenatorCollins of Maine will not be supporting our great United States Supreme Court Nominee. Well, she didn’t support Healthcare or my opening up 5000 square miles of Ocean to Maine, so why should this be any different. Not worth the work!

Big T was not a reference to me, but rather to Big Tech, which should have been properly pointed out in Twitter’s Fake Trending Section!

Steve Scully of @cspan had a very bad week. When his name was announced, I said he would not be appropriate because of conflicts. I was right! Then he said he was hacked, he wasn’t. I was right again! But his biggest mistake was “confiding” in a lowlife loser like the Mooch. Sad!
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Old 16th October 2020, 06:22 AM   #3482
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
See, here's an example. There is no evidence that is the goal of the CA GOP. Remember there is no question CA will vote for Biden. It isn't close and not subject to a serious challenge.

So is there a down ballot issue you think the GOP is going to challenge the votes on because of their own ballot boxes?

They've been told in no uncertain terms that these boxes are illegal, and any votes left in them will almost certainly be invalid as a result.

Their response was to double down on using the boxes.

That is not the response of an organization that was honestly trying to increase access to voting, but just made a mistake in interpreting the law.
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Old 16th October 2020, 06:25 AM   #3483
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"LOL you can't prove our illegal ballot boxes that we refuse to remove despite a court order have anything to do with us trying to effect the election."

My God what a wonderful world of Algonquin Round Table argumentatives we live in. Surely we are blessed to live in a such a gilded age of discourse.
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Old 16th October 2020, 06:26 AM   #3484
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
"Donald Trump continues to trail his presidential challenger Joe Biden by as much as 17 points in the national polls and acknowledged his concern during his latest rally appearance in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday night, telling his loyal crowd: "For me to only be up six [in Iowa], I'm a little bit concerned, I'll tell you that."

In a further sign of his desperation, the president later tweeted an astonishing plea to voters in the solidly-Democratic state of California, asking them “WHAT THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?” in voting for him."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...?ocid=msedgdhp
Man, the phrase "What do you have to lose?" was not quite so ridiculous four years ago. Pretty easy to answer it these days.
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Old 16th October 2020, 06:45 AM   #3485
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Rudy will get his check from Trump, some day. Though not from Trump directly, he never pays. Fake Hunter Biden computer generated hundreds of social media site responses.

Wikipedia included an article linked to the Hunter page that covers the fake computer NY Post story. It will probably be removed. See under the Talk tab:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:B...spiracy_theory

There is a concept of "what does most media say" involved.

Last edited by Tero; 16th October 2020 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 16th October 2020, 07:16 AM   #3486
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I don't see how Rudy will escape a charge of illegal lobbying and conspiracy except by dying at the right time.
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Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 16th October 2020 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 16th October 2020, 07:37 AM   #3487
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Here's a poignant music video from the Lincoln Project.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


It's like watching a music video based on footage from some dystopian TV series. My heart bleeds for the States.
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Old 16th October 2020, 07:55 AM   #3488
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I don't see how Rudy will escape a charge of illegal lobbying and conspiracy except by dying at the right time.
Sounds pretty good, let's do that!
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Old 16th October 2020, 07:56 AM   #3489
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This is one of the major downside to most everyone in politics being in the "Statistically died about 10 years ago" demographic. There's really no way to punish them.
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Old 16th October 2020, 08:04 AM   #3490
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More seriously one major issue is a whole lot of people have gambled a whole lot of wrong doing on hoping that Trump will just bail them out / cover it up / bury it / refuse to act /whatever.

When he leaves office there's going to be a lot of people with nothing to lose who suddenly have the rug pulled out from under them.

That's what scares me. A lot of people have a very, very vested interested in keeping Trump in power to save their own asses.
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Old 16th October 2020, 08:07 AM   #3491
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Oh my dear lord. This tweet will disappear soon, I think- the President of the United States just tweeted an article about Twitter shutting down completely, without any apparent awareness that the article is satire, and the Babylon Bee is a satire site, a conservative Onion wannabe. More evidence, if it's needed, that conservatives really don't quite get the concept of humor.
Well, there's the source. And then there's the fact that he TWEETED that TWITTER was shut down.
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Old 16th October 2020, 08:17 AM   #3492
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////
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Old 16th October 2020, 08:24 AM   #3493
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"LOL you can't prove our illegal ballot boxes that we refuse to remove despite a court order have anything to do with us trying to effect the election."

My God what a wonderful world of Algonquin Round Table argumentatives we live in. Surely we are blessed to live in a such a gilded age of discourse.
So far, I'm not outraged by the boxes. They are explicitly for ballot harvesting in GOP areas. Unless the harvesters break the law by not delivering every ballot harvested, then I don't see a necessarily nefarious plot. Ballot harvesting is legal in CA.

Of course, there is a big red flag that they are labeled as "official" sites, which is apparently (and reasonably) a crime. I won't defend the labeling or refusal to respond as demanded by the state AG (hope that's the right office).

And, of course, it's totally possible that there are some nefarious schemes for which we have no evidence. But ballots are sealed, so it can't be that they're tossing Democrat ballots out. Some have suggested it's for planted doubts in the election by tossing GOP ballots out and then "discovering" them, showing fraud. Totally could be, but I won't presume this is going on. Anyway, it's too late for that scheme to work now.

I understand that the GOP has worked hard to cast confusion into this election and so we should be chary with the benefit of the doubt. I'm still not willing to presume the worst I can imagine without some evidence.
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Old 16th October 2020, 08:32 AM   #3494
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
So far, I'm not outraged by the boxes. They are explicitly for ballot harvesting in GOP areas. Unless the harvesters break the law by not delivering every ballot harvested, then I don't see a necessarily nefarious plot. Ballot harvesting is legal in CA.

Except that, as has been pointed out several times, they are ignoring the rules related to proper ballot harvesting. These rules are not overly complicated, but they still haven't managed to follow them.

This is like someone getting a ticket for not having working brake lights on their car arguing that "Hey, driving is legal!" It's a trivially true statement that completely ignores the actual issue at hand.

Not that we actually expect anything better from the Trump Party.
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Old 16th October 2020, 08:34 AM   #3495
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
So far, I'm not outraged by the boxes. They are explicitly for ballot harvesting in GOP areas. Unless the harvesters break the law by not delivering every ballot harvested, then I don't see a necessarily nefarious plot. Ballot harvesting is legal in CA.
I was under the impression that in CA it's legal only if the voter puts the name of the person they have authorized to submit their ballot for them. Can't really do that when you don't know who is going to be collecting the ballots from those boxes.
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Old 16th October 2020, 08:36 AM   #3496
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If it's "assuming the worst" to claim that a party is just going to do what they are openly admitting they are attempting to do, I give up.

Again the Republicans aren't exactly hiding the fact that they are going to screw with this election. Even their apologetics and double-speak about it is sort of lifeless at this point.

There's "being fair" and "keeping an open mind" and then there's "Well the Democrats are saying the Republicans are going to screw with the election, but on the other hand the Republicans are saying the Republicans are going to screw with the election, so I don't know what to believe."
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Last edited by JoeMorgue; 16th October 2020 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:35 AM   #3497
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Because it fairly certainly is. Yes, I get that this is the Trump era, where Republicans openly and brazenly flout the law, but crime should not be normalized.
Way to miss the point.

Yes, and it was such a serious violation the boxes were immediately removed from private property and an investigation was started as to who to charge.

Actually misrepresenting the boxes as "official", not the boxes themselves, may have been what was illegal. The GOP agreed to remove boxes labeled "official" and relabel them.


Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Are you of the crowd that only values things like electoral integrity and security when you think they will benefit "your side?" Similarly, Rule of Law? Should people stop being offended by rank hypocrisy in politics?
You do know which side I'm on, right? I think you need to look in the mirror.

I'm defending the GOP's side because they presented a rational argument that they were merely doing what the law allowed (harvesting ballots) and which the Democrats had done the previous year.


Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Either way, it sure looks like you've seized upon just ONE of the potential concerns - one of the less impactful and less likely ones, really - and are harping on it as if that's all anyone could possibly be concerned about.
I have seized upon the fact this is not the outrageous crime it is being portrayed as.

Was the goal to get Democratic ballots and toss them out? Or was the goal to make it easier for Republicans to vote, something legal in CA?


If you can't beat them, join them. LA Times: California officials say GOP’s ballot boxes are illegal. Republicans may expand the practice Sorry, it's paywalled after your monthly allotment of free articles but there are multiple sources of the story.
Quote:
For years, Republicans across the country have decried the use of so-called “ballot harvesting,” arguing that laws that allow a third party to collect voters’ completed ballots serve as a breeding ground for election fraud. In California, the state’s Republican Party has taken Gov. Gavin Newsom and other officials to court over the practice.

Now, California’s GOP is defending its use of the very ballot collection law it once sued over....

At the center of the battle are questions of whether it is legal to collect ballots through third party boxes and also what constitutes an “official” ballot drop box. California law says a mail voter may designate another person to return their ballot....

A party spokesman told the Associated Press that they would stop labeling their ballot boxes “official” to avoid confusion and said that they may expand their use.

The issue:
Quote:
According to experts, the use of third-party ballot collection boxes is not illegal, but the false designation of an “official” drop-off box is because the boxes are not sanctioned by election officials.
I don't know which experts they are citing.

The GOP contends the people putting their ballots in the boxes know who they are entrusting the ballots to given the locations of the boxes. They agree the boxes need to have more clear labeling.

Here's an example of a possibly misleading statement by the person interviewed:
Quote:
Macías, of the Brennan Center for Justice, said that it would be one thing for a voter to designate a gun store owner as a person to return a ballot on their behalf, rather than a box in front of the store.
The GOP rep said the boxes were inside the stores. Correction: One box is pictured outside a church in the CNN article. There's no big label saying official collection box. That box was removed.


Besides labeling which the GOP has agreed to change, one's POV depends on how one views the GOP motives.
Quote:
Macías said he believes that the GOP wants to bring attention to their opposition of the state law “by trolling election officials.”

“These tactics fit a familiar pattern of attempting to suppress voting,” he said. “Undermining confidence, creating confusion, spreading disinformation — these are forms of voter suppression. It lays a groundwork to later claim you can’t trust the voter results.”
Troll election officials to bring attention to disagreement with the law?

And/or undermine confidence in mail-in ballots?

Or how about, if you can't beat them join them?

The fact these boxes were all in places GOP members of the public would be likely to put their ballots in the boxes, not places members of the public at large would put their ballots in them, suggests it's the last option.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:43 AM   #3498
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
I wouldn't be so quick to ascribe innocent motives to the GOP on anything. These ballot boxes could well be a means to nefarious plans. In a state that's assuredly lost to them at least as regards the Presidential vote, there's hardly a downside to sacrificing those collected votes if some 'accident' were to occur and thus give ammunition to a claim of 'uncertainty' in the result.

If we can imagine it, those scumbags will. And worse, because these are desperate times for them.
There are many down ballot issues the GOP may be aiming at.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:45 AM   #3499
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Skeptic Ginger, thing is that no one here (beside rethuglican astroturfers, of course) trust anything done by GOP.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:47 AM   #3500
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
You're right, the California GOP haven't been clear what their motives for installing illegal ballot boxes are. Upthread, I offered a number of possible motives.

That said, if you're of a conspiratorial mindset, the GOP in California isn't going to be pulling up trees so why not sacrifice California (by dumping ballots) to create national doubt.
Yes they did make it clear. And your hypotheticals were not among them and not logical given the location of the ballot boxes.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, ignoring the information that is clearly available and going with the headlines and gut feelings.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:50 AM   #3501
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Except that, as has been pointed out several times, they are ignoring the rules related to proper ballot harvesting. These rules are not overly complicated, but they still haven't managed to follow them.

This is like someone getting a ticket for not having working brake lights on their car arguing that "Hey, driving is legal!" It's a trivially true statement that completely ignores the actual issue at hand.

Not that we actually expect anything better from the Trump Party.
Right. Any deviation from the rules ought to be investigated and appropriate response taken.

There are some who presume or suggest something a lot more nefarious. I first heard a reference to this issue on a local NPR talk show by a host I regard as not particularly reliable. She bungles some issues and the show is unabashedly liberal in its presentation (which is fine, of course, but something to keep in mind). What she described sounded awful to me but when I went to the Times article and heard what facts were known, I realized that I had only heard a snippet which suggested but didn't give clear evidence of voter suppression.

So, I'm not saying that we should ignore wrongdoing in this ballot harvesting project, but we also should be careful to stick to the facts we know. Else, we will be like the gullible Trumpers who point to nine ballots wrongly discarded as evidence of a rigged election.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:51 AM   #3502
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
I was under the impression that in CA it's legal only if the voter puts the name of the person they have authorized to submit their ballot for them. Can't really do that when you don't know who is going to be collecting the ballots from those boxes.
If it violates the law in that respect, then the harvesters should be prosecuted.
I don't know the details of CA law, of course.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:56 AM   #3503
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If it's "assuming the worst" to claim that a party is just going to do what they are openly admitting they are attempting to do, I give up.

Again the Republicans aren't exactly hiding the fact that they are going to screw with this election. Even their apologetics and double-speak about it is sort of lifeless at this point.

There's "being fair" and "keeping an open mind" and then there's "Well the Democrats are saying the Republicans are going to screw with the election, but on the other hand the Republicans are saying the Republicans are going to screw with the election, so I don't know what to believe."
I suppose my point is that whether or not this harvesting project is evidence of screwing with the election is unclear to me. What precisely was the plan? If we don't have a pretty good idea, then we don't know that their action in this instance was nefarious.

If your claim is that the GOP is not following CA law when harvesting ballots, I have no problem. If you're saying that this is evidence of screwing with the election, it's not at all clear to me. None of this is to suggest we ignore the fact that Republicans have made many comments to the effect that voter suppression is in their interest and that they intend to pursue it.

It's a matter of relevance. Is this particular case evidence of the lengths to which the GOP will go to suppress the vote? Or is it (merely) evidence of their disregard for vote harvesting laws? The former is worse than the latter, but also harder to see in this case.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:57 AM   #3504
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California Assembly Bill 1921, passed in 2018.

Quote:
Assembly Bill No. 1921
CHAPTER 820

An act to amend Section 3017 of the Elections Code, relating to elections.

[ Approved by Governor September 29, 2016. Filed with Secretary of State September 29, 2016. ]

LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

AB 1921, Gonzalez. Elections: vote by mail ballots.

Existing law requires that the vote by mail ballot be available to any registered voter. Under existing law, a voter who is unable to return his or her vote by mail ballot may designate his or her spouse, child, parent, grandparent, grandchild, brother, sister, or person residing in the same household as the vote by mail voter to return the vote by mail ballot. Except in the case of a candidate or the spouse of a candidate, existing law prohibits the return of a voter’s vote by mail ballot by one of those designees who is also a paid or volunteer worker of a general purpose committee, controlled committee, or any other group or organization at whose behest the individual designated to return the ballot is performing a service.

This bill would remove those restrictions and instead authorize the designation of any person to return a vote by mail ballot. The bill would prohibit a person designated to return a vote by mail ballot from receiving any form of compensation, as defined, based on the number of ballots that the person has returned and would prohibit an individual, group, or organization from providing compensation on this basis. The bill would state that any person in charge of a vote by mail ballot who knowingly and willingly engages in criminal acts related to that ballot is subject to the appropriate punishment pursuant to existing law.

This bill would incorporate additional changes to Section 3017 of the Elections Code proposed by SB 450 that would become operative only if SB 450 and this bill are both chaptered and this bill is chaptered last.

SECTION 1. Section 3017 of the Elections Code is amended to read:
3017. (a) All vote by mail ballots cast under this division shall be voted on or before the day of the election. After marking the ballot, the vote by mail voter shall do any of the following: (1) return the ballot by mail or in person to the elections official from whom it came, (2) return the ballot in person to a member of a precinct board at a polling place within the jurisdiction, or (3) return the ballot to the elections official from whom it came at a vote by mail ballot drop-off location, if provided pursuant to Section 3025. However, a vote by mail voter who is unable to return the ballot may designate any person to return the ballot to the elections official from whom it came or to the precinct board at a polling place within the jurisdiction. The ballot must, however, be received by either the elections official from whom it came or the precinct board before the close of the polls on election day.
(b) The elections official shall establish procedures to ensure the secrecy of a ballot returned to a precinct polling place and the security, confidentiality, and integrity of any personal information collected, stored, or otherwise used pursuant to this section.
(c) On or before March 1, 2008, the elections official shall establish procedures to track and confirm the receipt of voted vote by mail ballots and to make this information available by means of online access using the county’s elections division Internet Web site. If the county does not have an elections division Internet Web site, the elections official shall establish a toll-free telephone number that may be used to confirm the date a voted vote by mail ballot was received.
(d) The provisions of this section are mandatory, not directory, and a ballot shall not be counted if it is not delivered in compliance with this section.
(e) (1) A person designated to return a vote by mail ballot shall not receive any form of compensation based on the number of ballots that the person has returned and no individual, group, or organization shall provide compensation on this basis.
(2) For purposes of this paragraph, “compensation” means any form of monetary payment, goods, services, benefits, promises or offers of employment, or any other form of consideration offered to another person in exchange for returning another voter’s vote by mail ballot.
(3) Any person in charge of a vote by mail ballot and who knowingly and willingly engages in criminal acts related to that ballot as described in Division 18 (commencing with Section 18000), including, but not limited to, fraud, bribery, intimidation, and tampering with or failing to deliver the ballot in a timely fashion, is subject to the appropriate punishment specified in that division.

SEC. 1.5. Section 3017 of the Elections Code is amended to read:
3017. (a) All vote by mail ballots cast under this division shall be voted on or before the day of the election. After marking the ballot, the vote by mail voter shall do any of the following: (1) return the ballot by mail or in person to the elections official who issued the ballot, (2) return the ballot in person to a member of a precinct board at a polling place or vote center within the state, or (3) return the ballot to a vote by mail ballot dropoff location within the state that is provided pursuant to Section 3025 or 4005. However, a vote by mail voter who is unable to return the ballot may designate any person to return the ballot to the elections official who issued the ballot, to the precinct board at a polling place or vote center within the state, or to a vote by mail ballot dropoff location within the state that is provided pursuant to Section 3025 or 4005. The ballot must, however, be received by the elections official who issued the ballot, the precinct board, or the vote by mail ballot dropoff location before the close of the polls on election day. If a vote by mail ballot is returned to a precinct board at a polling place or vote center, or to a vote by mail ballot dropoff location, that is located in a county that is not the county of the elections official who issued the ballot, the elections official for the county in which the vote by mail ballot is returned shall forward the ballot to the elections official who issued the ballot no later than eight days after receipt.
(b) The elections official shall establish procedures to ensure the secrecy of a ballot returned to a precinct polling place and the security, confidentiality, and integrity of any personal information collected, stored, or otherwise used pursuant to this section.
(c) On or before March 1, 2008, the elections official shall establish procedures to track and confirm the receipt of voted vote by mail ballots and to make this information available by means of online access using the county’s elections division Internet Web site. If the county does not have an elections division Internet Web site, the elections official shall establish a toll-free telephone number that may be used to confirm the date a voted vote by mail ballot was received.
(d) The provisions of this section are mandatory, not directory, and a ballot shall not be counted if it is not delivered in compliance with this section.
(e) (1) A person designated to return a vote by mail ballot shall not receive any form of compensation based on the number of ballots that the person has returned and no individual, group, or organization shall provide compensation on this basis.
(2) For purposes of this paragraph, “compensation” means any form of monetary payment, goods, services, benefits, promises or offers of employment, or any other form of consideration offered to another person in exchange for returning another voter’s vote by mail ballot.
(3) Any person in charge of a vote by mail ballot and who knowingly and willingly engages in criminal acts related to that ballot as described in Division 18 (commencing with Section 18000), including, but not limited to, fraud, bribery, intimidation, and tampering with or failing to deliver the ballot in a timely fashion, is subject to the appropriate punishment specified in that division.

SEC. 2. Section 1.5 of this bill incorporates amendments to Section 3017 of the Elections Code proposed by both this bill and Senate Bill 450. It shall only become operative if (1) both bills are enacted and become effective on or before January 1, 2017, (2) each bill amends Section 3017 of the Elections Code, and (3) this bill is enacted after Senate Bill 450, in which case Section 1 of this bill shall not become operative.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01520160AB1921
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:03 AM   #3505
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I suppose my point is that whether or not this harvesting project is evidence of screwing with the election is unclear to me. What precisely was the plan? If we don't have a pretty good idea, then we don't know that their action in this instance was nefarious.
If you've already openly declared your intent to be nefarious, it removes the onus on 3rd parties to over-explain the pure mechanics of your nefariousness to everyone's (or indeed anyone's) satisfaction become making the assumption of nefariousness.

I mentioned this before. There's a broad legal concept called "estoppel." And one precedent of it is that you can't after the fact demand a distinction be clarified after you've already declared yourself on one side of.

If I open "Joe's House of Smutty Smut, That's Right I said Smutty Smut" and get hit with an obscenity violation, I can't then go after the fact and argue that the line between smut and erotica wasn't clearly defined in the stature because I've already said which side I knew I was on even if the distinction actually wasn't clearly defined in the original stature.

The Republicans have already openly declared their intent to screw with this election. Some wishywashy "What? How is this tampering with the election?" pettyfogging has to happen before you admit planning to mess with the election is exactly what you are doing, not after.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:05 AM   #3506
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
Skeptic Ginger, thing is that no one here (beside rethuglican astroturfers, of course) trust anything done by GOP.
That's fine. But then say so, don't just assert the worst (tossing out ballots) without looking at what the evidence supports.


If we are ever going to get back to normal in this country, then we on the left need to take care not to make false or unsupported assertions. It makes us vulnerable to false claims of equivalence.

Facts matter, the real ones, not the alternative ones.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:09 AM   #3507
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If you've already openly declared your intent to be nefarious, it removes the onus on 3rd parties to over-explain the pure mechanics of your nefariousness to everyone's (or indeed anyone's) satisfaction become making the assumption of nefariousness.

I mentioned this before. There's a broad legal concept called "estoppel." And one precedent of it is that you can't after the fact demand a distinction be clarified after you've already declared yourself on one side of.

If I open "Joe's House of Dirty, Dirty Smut" and get hit with an obscenity violation, I can't then go after the fact and argue that the line between smut and erotica wasn't clearly defined in the stature because I've already said which side I knew I was on.

The Republicans have already openly declared their intent to screw with this election. Some wishywashy "What? How is this tampering with the election?" pettyfogging has to happen before you admit planning to mess with the election is exactly what you are doing, not after.
Suppose I say, "I'm going to kill Jim." Then you see me driving my car on a street where Jim is walking. It doesn't mean you can convict me of vehicular homicide, not even if I'm speeding.

You can't use "estoppel" to say that every vote-related acts by the GOP is voter suppression. Your argument is asinine.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:09 AM   #3508
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
California Assembly Bill 1921, passed in 2018.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01520160AB1921
And yet, no one's been arrested and the prosecutor is evaluating the arguments put forth in the GOP response letter.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:12 AM   #3509
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

There is a nasty rumor out there that @SenatorCollins of Maine will not be supporting our great United States Supreme Court Nominee. Well, she didn’t support Healthcare or my opening up 5000 square miles of Ocean to Maine, so why should this be any different. Not worth the work!

Big T was not a reference to me, but rather to Big Tech, which should have been properly pointed out in Twitter’s Fake Trending Section!

Steve Scully of @cspan had a very bad week. When his name was announced, I said he would not be appropriate because of conflicts. I was right! Then he said he was hacked, he wasn’t. I was right again! But his biggest mistake was “confiding” in a lowlife loser like the Mooch. Sad!
Collins is behind in the polls and Trump throws her under the bus? Stable genius in action.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:14 AM   #3510
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Suppose I say, "I'm going to kill Jim." Then you see me driving my car on a street where Jim is walking. It doesn't mean you can convict me of vehicular homicide, not even if I'm speeding.
Yeah but the Republicans keep getting caught trying to kill Jim. This is just like the most recent time.

"Benefit of the Doubt" is a thing.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:14 AM   #3511
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
They've been told in no uncertain terms that these boxes are illegal, and any votes left in them will almost certainly be invalid as a result.

Their response was to double down on using the boxes.

That is not the response of an organization that was honestly trying to increase access to voting, but just made a mistake in interpreting the law.
Where did you get that highlighted bit from?

Have any ballots they've already turned in been flagged? Or invalidated?
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:15 AM   #3512
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And yet, no one's been arrested and the prosecutor is evaluating the arguments put forth in the GOP response letter.
The exact wording of the stature matters to the discussion and questions about it where asked so I put the info out there neutrally, no more, no less.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:16 AM   #3513
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"LOL you can't prove our illegal ballot boxes that we refuse to remove despite a court order have anything to do with us trying to effect the election."

My God what a wonderful world of Algonquin Round Table argumentatives we live in. Surely we are blessed to live in a such a gilded age of discourse.
There's not been a court order. There was a cease and desist letter to which the response is being evaluated.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:20 AM   #3514
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Here's a poignant music video from the Lincoln Project.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


It's like watching a music video based on footage from some dystopian TV series. My heart bleeds for the States.
Lavato performed this song on the Billboard Awards with different images in the background. The show's producers edited out the word VOTE from the ending shot.

It's a heart wrenching song.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:24 AM   #3515
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
I was under the impression that in CA it's legal only if the voter puts the name of the person they have authorized to submit their ballot for them. Can't really do that when you don't know who is going to be collecting the ballots from those boxes.
The voter is supposed to know the person they are giving the ballot to. I don't believe any identifiers are required beyond that.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:25 AM   #3516
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I suppose my point is that whether or not this harvesting project is evidence of screwing with the election is unclear to me. What precisely was the plan? If we don't have a pretty good idea, then we don't know that their action in this instance was nefarious.

If your claim is that the GOP is not following CA law when harvesting ballots, I have no problem. If you're saying that this is evidence of screwing with the election, it's not at all clear to me. None of this is to suggest we ignore the fact that Republicans have made many comments to the effect that voter suppression is in their interest and that they intend to pursue it.

It's a matter of relevance. Is this particular case evidence of the lengths to which the GOP will go to suppress the vote? Or is it (merely) evidence of their disregard for vote harvesting laws? The former is worse than the latter, but also harder to see in this case.
The mechanism here is violating the law in a way that gets those votes thrown out, which they can then cite as evidence that the election was rigged against them and the law is applied 'unevenly', or the votes get allowed in spite of the election law violation, which they can cite as evidence the election was insecure.

Either way, they can claim the election was invalid. It really isn't different than any government function that the GOP claims can't work, when the major reason it isn't working is they're sabotaging it.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:30 AM   #3517
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The exact wording of the stature matters to the discussion and questions about it where asked so I put the info out there neutrally, no more, no less.
Did you notice it said groups and organizations could collect the ballots as long as no one was paid?
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:32 AM   #3518
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
The mechanism here is violating the law in a way that gets those votes thrown out, which they can then cite as evidence that the election was rigged against them and the law is applied 'unevenly', or the votes get allowed in spite of the election law violation, which they can cite as evidence the election was insecure.

Either way, they can claim the election was invalid. It really isn't different than any government function that the GOP claims can't work, when the major reason it isn't working is they're sabotaging it.
How are the ballots being disqualified or thrown out? Why would the GOP collect GOP ballots that they believed would be invalidated?
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:38 AM   #3519
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For those of you who complained about my highlighted shouting, it got the conversation started where my foot stamping did not. At least people are thinking about the issue instead of only ranting unsupported assertions in an echo chamber.
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Old 16th October 2020, 10:39 AM   #3520
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
How are the ballots being disqualified or thrown out? Why would the GOP collect GOP ballots that they believed would be invalidated?
In the exact way that has already been listed. By California law harvested ballots have to have the name of the person harvesting the ballot written on the ballot by the voter and certified by a witness. Those things can't happen with these boxes.

And the why is answered in the post you're quoting.
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