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Old 13th October 2020, 07:23 AM   #1641
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Well, yes...



I doubt they'll need you to put much more effort in than reporting it.
If everyone who received incorrect tests back did it then they'd have a pretty good collection to hand should they decide (or someone complain enough) to actually do something.
As I say, I'm considering it. I've contacted them on twitter again, although still no response as of yet. I'll give them 24 hours on that and then see what I think.

I'm not so bothered by the actual wrong text (although I might be more so if I were the person who didn't get their test results), because I can understand how someone could give the wrong number, or someone could write it down wrong, or something like that. It's more the lack of mechanism to be able to inform them that something's wrong, and the lack of response to the contact I have made.

That and I don't really understand why I would need both my full name and my date of birth if the text had actually been intended for me. That's information I already know.

I can't think of any reason for the date of birth at all. I'm used to getting automated texts/email that start with my first name, so that's not unusual. And I could see the full name being a safeguard against the wrong person getting the text - there are plenty of Johns in the country, after all, so the wrong John could get the text and think he was the right John - but if, and only if, there were some mechanism in place for what to do if you're not the person the text is addressed to.

Since there is no such mechanism the only thing that information being in the text actually does is to cause a data breach if the text is sent to the wrong person, as in this case.
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Old 13th October 2020, 08:22 AM   #1642
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Time to recommission Offa's Dyke:

Quote:
Boris Johnson has rejected a demand from the first minister of Wales for a travel ban in and out of Covid hotspots in England.

"There are no physical borders between Wales and England," the prime minister's official spokesman said.

He said guidance was "very clear" that people from very high risk areas such as Merseyside "should avoid travelling in or out of the area".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54528288

The reason we're in this mess is that people are selfish ****** (you should know PM, your top advisor is a prime example) who will do whatever they please with no regard for anyone else's health or welfare.

Not only is the UK government failing to take a grip, they're actively hindering those who are trying to

Plaid Cymru, you've convinced me, an independent Wales in the EU is definitely the way forward.
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Old 13th October 2020, 10:02 AM   #1643
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Wales is as big as, and has as much in the way of natural resources, as quite a number of successful independent countries. The trick is the ability to elect a government that has the full range of powers of an independent country (within the EU) and which then uses these powers for the benefit of Wales and not for the benefit of England.

It's surprising how many people don't see this. But we're getting off topic, perhaps another thread on this in due course.
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Old 13th October 2020, 11:15 AM   #1644
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
clarification - LA data was all that I got from the gov.uk, I didn't realise that greater detail was available elsewhere.

Which is another failing of yet another part of this whole **** show. Gypsyjackson has a great deal of detail on relatively small places where there is hardly any covid. On the other hand, I, in tier 2 land have a figure for over 400 square kilometres.

I live in a fairly rural area, I assume that the infection rate in the few streets around me is much less than the rate at the other end of the borough that abuts the city and has a load of flats for university students.

ETA - our village data is available, hidden in a drop down... and there's the map you can scroll in on....
This is good at the ONS MSOA level - roughly 5000-7000 people (IIRC)

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappvi...2c5f6912ed7076

In chrome it doesn't show the numbers as easily as firefox
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:32 AM   #1645
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It seems that UK Governments like a "short sharp shock". The term used to be applied to short but harsh prison sentences which were supposed to scare petty offenders straight and now to the "circuit breaker" approach to implementing lockdown restrictions.

I can see the appeal of harsh restrictions for a short period of time - they're a lot less unpopular than harsh restrictions for a long period of time and this government is all about the headlines.

Short sharp shock didn't work in the case of petty offenders and now it's being called into doubt with respect to the "circuit breaker".

Quote:
ircuit breaker lockdowns are "doomed to failure" and would bring "cost without benefit", according to an expert in diseases.

The Welsh Government is considering bringing in deeper lockdown measures over a short period of time.

This could include closing pubs and restaurants during half term.

But Dr Roland Salmon, former director of communicable diseases at Public Health Wales, said it will not suppress the virus.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54527400

Of course this is just on man's opinion, albeit someone with subject matter expertise. Then again he could be just as wrong as anyone else. His objection is that, at best, it could provide short term relief.

Quote:
Dr Salmon said any short-term measures lasting between two and three weeks would not be long enough to prevent the spread of Covid-19 from households where people are infectious but do not show symptoms.

"I simply don't think a circuit breaker will work," he said.

"It won't work because even Sage (UK government Scientific Advisory Committee for Emergencies) in its consideration thought it would only delay matters, not supress the virus altogether."
His preferred approach is to shield those at risk (either through age or infirmity or because of their jobs), test and trace properly and quarantining if infected. This sounds rather like what South Korea and other comparatively successful countries have done. Of course this relies on effective action rather than snappy slogans and token efforts - so not a chance
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:51 AM   #1646
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Actually the summary info on the page is interesting:

https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/

Looking at the last 7 days and comparing to the previous:

- Hospitalisation up nearly 50%
- Positive tests up 33%
- Deaths up 37.5%

Worrying....
Deaths up 200% in both my local areas. Good stuff Boris
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Old 14th October 2020, 02:27 AM   #1647
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This is why relying on the Great British Public to observe Covid guidelines is doomed...

Quote:
Police were forced to disperse large crowds in Liverpool just hours before new coronavirus restrictions came into force.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...yside-54535481

A sizeable minority of people are selfish a-holes who have no concern for other people's health and welfare. Having the Prime Minister referring to them as "freedom loving" only encourages them.

Liverpool is currently in a poor way:

Quote:
It comes as Liverpool's intensive care units are more than 90% full, with the city soon expected to reach levels of bed occupancy seen during the first wave of Covid-19, Paul Brant, cabinet member for adult health and social care at Liverpool City Council said.

He said acute hospital trusts also have occupancy levels of Covid-positive patients of over 250.

"At the current rate of increase, we would expect Liverpool to surpass the peak of the first wave probably within the next seven to 10 days."
The problem is that people were willing to be compliant earlier this year when the message was clear and the government were saying that we're all in it together. Now the message is hopelessly muddled and it's clear from the actions of MPs and senior advisors that there's one set of rules for the powerful and well to do and another for the hoi polloi.

I cannot meet up for band practice (four people, three households, not in a bubble) but grouse shoots can go ahead
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Old 14th October 2020, 05:23 AM   #1648
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
RIP btw.

Thanks. I'm in an area with a high risk now, I'm over 60, overweight and heavily asthmatic and I have direct access to all the medical records of north London so can see myself how Covid is doing.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Old 14th October 2020, 06:04 AM   #1649
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How pathetic is this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-s...ost_type=share
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Old 14th October 2020, 06:33 AM   #1650
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There sure was a big surge in false positives in Germany last week. Double the number from two weeks before. They should give that testing lab a thorough cleaning, and stop all that excessive testing that causes false positives in the first place. Otherwise there will be a misleading narrative that cases in Germany are surging just like in most of the rest of Europe.
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:13 AM   #1651
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Anyway, I've given PHE one final tweet and if I've not got a reply by tomorrow, I will contact ICO.
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Old 14th October 2020, 08:15 AM   #1652
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Anyway, I've given PHE one final tweet and if I've not got a reply by tomorrow, I will contact ICO.

Might be worth emailing enquiries@nhsdigital.nhs.uk My experience is that the "digital" parts of the NHS are struggling with a backlog but do reply after a few days and within the period suggested in their autoreply when given.
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Old 14th October 2020, 09:47 AM   #1653
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NVM
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Last edited by P.J. Denyer; 14th October 2020 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:34 PM   #1654
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btw, I'm in a "high risk" city as well. "High risk" being defined by completely arbitrary numbers of "cases" (i.e. positive PCR-Tests of people who may or may not have any health problems). A single digit number of people are in hospital with "COVID-19", no ICU beds occupied at all.

The state (fish always stinks from the head) has asked the city to come up with some more bizarre "measures". So we'll have a curfew (venues have to close and no alcohol may be sold) from ... 1 to 6 am from tomorrow on. The virus is night-active and the local politicians just say "leave us alone with your nonsense".

Berlin has a "curfew" like that starting at 11 pm since last weekend. Berlin. That will of course lead to revolution soon. While the "Truth Brothers" gather larger and larger crowds when they show up with their bus even in some village.

As I said before, the conditions for beating the Covidian Cult are maybe best in Germany. If not the French request their rightful place all of a sudden. You never know what they are up to.

Interesting times.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:48 PM   #1655
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
. While the "Truth Brothers" gather larger and larger crowds when they show up with their bus even in some village.
"Larger and larger" of course means an increase from 50 to 100 people.

What is their geman name? I searched for "Wahrheitsbrüder" and found nothing.

Do you have a link to the website? Of course you have. Please post it, I need a laugh.

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Old 14th October 2020, 02:05 PM   #1656
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Another essential piece by CJ Hopkins: <snip>

Why would anyone be interested in the rantings of a mediocre playwright? Rather than people who actually understand the subject....
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Old 15th October 2020, 01:38 AM   #1657
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^
I too have no idea what CE is proposing re covid-19.

Perhaps he will explain, concisely and clearly? Without linking to 3rd party websites or YT videos as a substitute for actually explaining his point of view?

I won't hold my breath. CTists hate clarity.
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Old 15th October 2020, 02:28 AM   #1658
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(Yet) another example of how attempting to reinvent the wheel has backfired

Quote:
Staff at several NHS trusts were left unable to access testing after they stood down their in-house systems because they were assured that centralised national system could cope.

When the national system then came under strain earlier in the autumn, some healthcare staff - including in virus hotspots - could not get tested.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

It seems that the hospital has taken the right approach to address the issue:

Quote:
Since then, her hospital has reinstated staff testing on site
Yet another example of the "inefficient" public sector baling out a multi-billion pound failure of the private sector.
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Old 15th October 2020, 02:40 AM   #1659
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FWIW, a plurality of UK citizens don't think government actions are strict enough re covid

So actually, they'd be making themselves unpopular by inflating the infection/death rates and making themselves unpopular by using them as an excuse to introduce measures that people think aren't restrictive enough.
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:05 AM   #1660
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Keith Burge ( Director, Institute of Economic Development) tweeted

@carryonkeith
Just so I'm clear, Brexit at any economic cost is fine but the economic costs of lockdown measures designed to save lives are unacceptable?
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Old 15th October 2020, 03:23 AM   #1661
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Keith Burge ( Director, Institute of Economic Development) tweeted

@carryonkeith
Just so I'm clear, Brexit at any economic cost is fine but the economic costs of lockdown measures designed to save lives are unacceptable?
I guess it comes down to the value of those lives.

The people who are likely to die are likely to be poorer, older, sicker people in areas of high population density, not members of the government or their nearest and dearest living in leafy shires. It's not like those who will be dying really matter.
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Old 15th October 2020, 04:12 AM   #1662
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Pointless words from Nick Hancock:

Quote:
“Things will get worse before they get better but I know that there are brighter skies and calmer seas ahead.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

No **** Nick ?

Yes the combination of Covid-19, a no deal Brexit and the usual winter rush on the NHS is very likely to be very bad indeed and certainly far worse than we have at the moment.

Yes, at some unspecified point in the future the UK will be in a better place than it is at the moment with an out of control pandemic, a government failing to manage it, catastrophic economic conditions - some due to Covid-19 the rest due to the government's failure to manage Brexit and a public who don't trust the government.

That's not setting the bar particularly high
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Old 15th October 2020, 04:30 AM   #1663
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Well there will be some pluses to the government's way of thinking. More free beds in care homes for our aging population (well those who get to age that is). Also new business opportunities for people to set up roach coaches in the massive truck parks and empty their toilets when they overflow and Dom's chums haven't done anything.

Also ehmm well many many things. All the things too numerous to mention.
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Old 15th October 2020, 05:42 AM   #1664
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Matt. Matt Hancock. I have made the same mistake myself
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Old 15th October 2020, 05:50 AM   #1665
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Matt. Matt Hancock. I have made the same mistake myself
Ooops

Chalk it up to a senior moment.
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Old 15th October 2020, 06:42 AM   #1666
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Poor Nick.
Wonder how many people make that mistake in earshot of him?
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Old 15th October 2020, 06:50 AM   #1667
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Boris “Congratulations to Marcus Rashford on his well-deserved MBE for helping feed kids in poverty”

5 days later: “It’s not for schools to regularly provide food to pupils during the school holidays..."
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Old 15th October 2020, 07:11 AM   #1668
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Why should it be the government's responsibility if there are children who can't afford to eat every day, after all?
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Old 15th October 2020, 07:28 AM   #1669
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BBC Politics
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"I'm afraid that is what you get when you vote for socialists"
Commons leader and Conservative MP Jacob Rees Mogg says the Welsh government has created an "unconstitutional" border between England and Wales with its plans for a Covid travel ban

http://bbc.in/2IpFVTA
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Old 15th October 2020, 07:33 AM   #1670
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Matt Hancock tweeted
@MattHancock
·
19h
Tonight Parliament endorsed & President Macron complimented our Test & Trace
Massive thanks to my team & all those working so hard to deliver huge growth in capacity - helping keep people safe
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Old 15th October 2020, 07:48 AM   #1671
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Matt Hancock tweeted
@MattHancock
·
19h
Tonight Parliament endorsed & President Macron complimented our Test & Trace
Massive thanks to my team & all those working so hard to deliver huge growth in capacity - helping keep people safe
Are you sure you haven’t posted a Trump tweet by mistake....
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Old 15th October 2020, 11:49 AM   #1672
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Serco and Citel the companies who run track and trace have no penalty clauses on performance.
When asked Matt Hancock said that it wouldn’t work in the UK.
What contract signed with any business for a service doesn’t have a penalty clause?
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Old 15th October 2020, 12:43 PM   #1673
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The Speaker has banned the sale of alcohol in Parliament from this Saturday.

“As MPs represent different constituencies in different tiers – with the very highest level ordering the closure of pubs – I have decided to stop the sale of alcohol across the House of Commons"

Imagine how awful they will be when they are sober?

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 15th October 2020 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 15th October 2020, 01:09 PM   #1674
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Serco and Citel the companies who run track and trace have no penalty clauses on performance.
When asked Matt Hancock said that it wouldn’t work in the UK.
What contract signed with any business for a service doesn’t have a penalty clause?
I don't think he cares any more. He just spouts whatever old guff he's told to spout and survives.
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Old 16th October 2020, 12:43 AM   #1675
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Here's Jonathan Pie from a few days ago taking his usual acerbic view:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:29 AM   #1676
Lothian
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Serco and Citel the companies who run track and trace have no penalty clauses on performance.
When asked Matt Hancock said that it wouldn’t work in the UK.
What contract signed with any business for a service doesn’t have a penalty clause?
I suspect the contract with the 3 week old 'off the shelf co' owned by a Tory party advisor which resulted in the UK buying millions of ineffective facemasks didn't have a penalty clause......... Oh, you mean a contract signed by a competent buyer.

Last edited by Lothian; 16th October 2020 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 16th October 2020, 01:45 AM   #1677
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Serco and Citel the companies who run track and trace have no penalty clauses on performance.
When asked Matt Hancock said that it wouldn’t work in the UK.
What contract signed with any business for a service doesn’t have a penalty clause?
You may want to sit down - for once he is actually sort-off right - I know I don't believe it myself.

Traditionally outright penalty clauses in contracts have been difficult to enforce in the UK and are still usually avoided (there was a recent case that helped clarify when and how they can be enforced which means there is now a much clearer test to apply to determine if they are enforceable).

But of course there have always been ways to achieve the same result, which is why you'll have "on-time bonuses" and the like. And of course the UK government could employ the best lawyers to draw up contracts which can be enforced... of course the government could decide to breach the law and not pay... after all they've recently set the precedent that agreements with the government may be broken whenever they like.
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Old 16th October 2020, 04:06 AM   #1678
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This speech should be played just before the next election, and not just:
“The anger and frustration isn’t just that the response is failing, but that it’s failing because the government refused to enable and invest in local authorities and public health teams and instead chose to pump billions into scandal-ridden contractors.”"

https://twitter.com/DanCardenMP/stat...u8zp29OYhE122w
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Old 17th October 2020, 03:10 PM   #1679
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People who have been told to self-isolate through NHS Test and Trace could have their details shared with the police on a "case-by-case basis".

Forces will have access to information telling them if an individual has been told to self-isolate, the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) said.

But the British Medical Association said it was worried police involvement might put people off being tested.

A memorandum of understanding was issued between the DHSC and National Police Chiefs' Council to allow forces to access information that tells them if a "specific individual" has been told to self-isolate, as first reported by the Health Service Journal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54586897
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Old 17th October 2020, 11:33 PM   #1680
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
People who have been told to self-isolate through NHS Test and Trace could have their details shared with the police on a "case-by-case basis".

Forces will have access to information telling them if an individual has been told to self-isolate, the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) said.

But the British Medical Association said it was worried police involvement might put people off being tested.

A memorandum of understanding was issued between the DHSC and National Police Chiefs' Council to allow forces to access information that tells them if a "specific individual" has been told to self-isolate, as first reported by the Health Service Journal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54586897
My first instinct is this is wrong. And as said it may be counter-productive. But should people with a life threatening infectious disease be allowed to go on about their life as an MP endangering other people? This has certainly been done in other countries where those in isolation are checked on. Currently if some one is positive and they are reported to the police because they are going to the pub or work, there is no way for the police to know. With this proposal police can check on a named person basis (they will not be getting a download of names of all persons tested positive).

I am not sure this is a fundamental breach of rights, but whether in the longer term it is helpful or not I am uncertain.
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