The De-Trumpification of America -- life after the Trump revolution - Page 7

Horatius · 13th November 2020, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

I don't want to see him playing nice with Mitch McConnell because Mitch McConnell is a proven snake with a history of promising absolutely anything when he needs bipartisan cooperation before stabbing Dems in the back first chance he gets. Am I a Bernie Bro or do I hate America?

Unfortunately, if the Georgia Senate run-off elections go to the Republicans, Biden will have to "play nice" with Moscow Mitch.

Of course, based on MM's track record, "playing nice" should consist of any deal being predicated on the "You go first, Mitch" principle. Get what you want from him first, then give him what he wants after.

The only other option is to just accept that nothing will get done.

The Great Zaganza · 13th November 2020, 09:24 AM

Biden's base is shaky, but Mitch no longer has a base without Trump.

Emily's Cat · 13th November 2020, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

"My niece represents what all liberals think". Good to know.

Or are you saying she doesn't? In which case what relevance does this have?

Does the fringiest fringe on the left represent all liberals, in your opinion? If not, then your post is irrelevant.

Emily's Cat · 13th November 2020, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

You may ask, why does this behavior seem mostly limited to conservatives and not liberals? The reason is deep-seated psychological differences between the conservative and liberal mind. Conservatives can't handle change, so they have to deny that it is sometimes necessary. Liberals are more open to change and can see its advantages.

Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior.

johnny karate · 13th November 2020, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior.

Translation: I have no desire to actually look at facts or acknowledge reality and instead will continue to adhere to an irrational need to balance the scales.

johnny karate · 13th November 2020, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Does the fringiest fringe on the left represent all liberals, in your opinion? If not, then your post is irrelevant.

No one is talking about the “fringiest fringe” of the right. We’re talking about mainstream Republicansim.

That you constantly attempt these desperately false equivalencies only reveals the utter dishonesty of your approach.

CORed · 13th November 2020, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

No one is talking about the “fringiest fringe” of the right. We’re talking about mainstream Republicansim.

That you constantly attempt these desperately false equivalencies only reveals the utter dishonesty of your approach.

Well, I would hold that the "fringiest fringe" of the right pretty much is mainstream Republican.

Emily's Cat · 13th November 2020, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

No one is talking about the “fringiest fringe” of the right. We’re talking about mainstream Republicansim.

That you constantly attempt these desperately false equivalencies only reveals the utter dishonesty of your approach.

Nobody is talking about the fringiest fringe... except for those of us who were literally talking about the fringiest fringe.

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

The fringiest fringe on the left won't vote for the mainstream candidate.

The fringiest fringe on the right chants "Jews will not replace us," drives cars into protest crowds, and is gearing up for the coming race war.

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Are you saying your niece isn't the fringiest fringe on the left just for refusing to vote for Biden, or are you saying your niece would carve a MAGA sign into people's foreheads? Because you said the former, but now you're suggesting I'm supposed to have perceived the latter.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

My niece has a lot of very fringy ideas, including accelerationism of civil war by any means in order to get the grand revolution and convert (by force) the country into a communist utopia.

If you insist on continuing to engage in personal attacks, at least make sure you are accurate in your references.

JoeMorgue · 13th November 2020, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior.

Okay fine it's "mean" but at a certain point if you're factually wrong about everything and psychopathically evil about everything else what are we supposed to call it? Your "no one side just isn't allowed to be that wrong, it's not fair" fetish is so much meaningless twaddle.

Why is it so often that it seems like the Trumper's main strategy is to actually be so horrible that just describing them triggers people's "Oh they can't be that bad, you're being mean" routine?

No I'm not playing the stupid, inane "No wait I demand you stop and define the exact ratio of Trump supporters you think meet this criteria" game that both sides want to play. I don't care about mathematically defining some fringe to mainstream ratio.

Enough. That's my answer. Enough. It's not worth it in trying to save the babies in this particular bathwater anymore. If a few can crawl out on their own, so be it. Maybe we can work with them later. But they have to make the first move. The onus isn't on us.

Egg · 13th November 2020, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior.

Both sides are bad, dumb and mean. We are superior to both sides?

There are many people believing things that are objectively false - and they vote in large numbers. Trying to analyze what makes them do that at a psychological level isn't trying to demonize people, it's trying to understand them. If we're looking to improve messaging and policy and try to heal divides, that seems like a pretty good start to me.

Emily's Cat · 13th November 2020, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Egg

Both sides are bad, dumb and mean. We are superior to both sides?

Nah. Both sides have a mix of good and bad, about widely diverse topics, and neither is superior to the other in general. But partisans of either will insist that whichever "we" they belong to is far better then the "they" of the other side.

Mader Levap · 13th November 2020, 03:46 PM

Again, when I hear someone claiming that "both sides are equally bad", I see someone supporting side that has most, if not all, blame. This kind of claim is never sincere.

Egg · 13th November 2020, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Nah. Both sides have a mix of good and bad, about widely diverse topics, and neither is superior to the other in general. But partisans of either will insist that whichever "we" they belong to is far better then the "they" of the other side.

I feel that this was a more true statement back in the days of shared facts.

JoeMorgue · 13th November 2020, 05:38 PM

Why are we being talked to like Trump supporters have extended some olive branch we've slapped away?

The only difference is one of the balance of power. They haven't recanted their "**** your feelings and crawl back to your safe place before I drink your tears snowflake" mentality to my knowledge.

"I want things to be more civil because I don't have the high ground anymore and know I'm scared" isn't compromise.

ChrisBFRPKY · 13th November 2020, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Egg

Agreed! I also agree with the posters pointing out that discrimination based on political opinions is quite a different category from racism. But I can also understand how a generalization of Trump supporters looks like prejudice.

Genuine question about the quote in your sig (and apologies if you've covered this elsewhere): So, that's from a statement written for Trump to read after he got into hot water from his comments after Charlotsville. It was a good statement and I think we'd all agree with the bulk of it. Do you believe that it actually represents Trump's real opinion, considering some of the other stuff he's said when not scripted? For example, his comments on racehorse theory from his Bemidji rally in September (audience made up mostly of Scandy/German descendants) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PqlMfq6lU. To be honest, I was horrified.

Where did this demographic on the attendance come from?

As far as the "genes" conversation. You may not be aware that in the US the frontier was settled by tough individuals. These people endured much hardship to settle this Country. Those that were not able to endure, died. Survival of the fittest. Seems horrible by today's standards but back then it was a matter of fact. Many of the descendants of those people are proud of their heritage. It has nothing to do with anything nefarious.

So far it looks as if Trump received approx 12% of the Black vote and possibly over 20% support in real numbers.
In specific areas of Miami Dade county FL, he reportedly received 52% of the Hispanic vote. For a racist?

Overall I would say the argument for Trump being a racist has been exposed as a false claim by the 2020 results. But that's no surprise. The next Republican candidate will be called "racist" as well. It happens every single time.

Venom · 13th November 2020, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

Again, when I hear someone claiming that "both sides are equally bad", I see someone supporting side that has most, if not all, blame. This kind of claim is never sincere.

ChrisBFRPKY · 13th November 2020, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Why are we being talked to like Trump supporters have extended some olive branch we've slapped away?

The only difference is one of the balance of power. They haven't recanted their "**** your feelings and crawl back to your safe place before I drink your tears snowflake" mentality to my knowledge.

"I want things to be more civil because I don't have the high ground anymore and know I'm scared" isn't compromise.

Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4.

Venom · 13th November 2020, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4.

Mitch McConnell: "ahem.."

Egg · 13th November 2020, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Where did this demographic on the attendance come from?

I live in Minnesota. Those are the demographics of the region. (linky)

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

As far as the "genes" conversation. You may not be aware that in the US the frontier was settled by tough individuals. These people endured much hardship to settle this Country. Those that were not able to endure, died. Survival of the fittest. Seems horrible by today's standards but back then it was a matter of fact. Many of the descendants of those people are proud of their heritage. It has nothing to do with anything nefarious.

I'm going to take this in good faith and just say "astonishing!" - and forever use this post as the best example of denialism I've ever seen.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

So far it looks as if Trump received approx 12% of the Black vote and possibly over 20% support in real numbers.
In specific areas of Miami Dade county FL, he reportedly received 52% of the Hispanic vote. For a racist?

Overall I would say the argument for Trump being a racist has been exposed as a false claim by the 2020 results. But that's no surprise. The next Republican candidate will be called "racist" as well. It happens every single time.

I don't find this line of argument convincing and if I did, I wouldn't find the statistics to be convincing either.

johnny karate · 14th November 2020, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Nobody is talking about the fringiest fringe... except for those of us who were literally talking about the fringiest fringe.

Except no, you’re not.

You’re trying to compare how the fringe left behaves to how the mainstream right behaves.

It’s a ridiculously dishonest tactic.

We all see you doing it and no one is falling for it.

Emily's Cat · 16th November 2020, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Why are we being talked to like Trump supporters have extended some olive branch we've slapped away?

Have you considered that perhaps those of us suggesting some kind of grown-up approach don't give a crap what Trump supporters do? And that maybe, just maybe, we don't want to deal with this Hatfield-McCoy feud-like petty vengeance approach to the politics that affect our lives?

Emily's Cat · 16th November 2020, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Except no, you’re not.

You’re trying to compare how the fringe left behaves to how the mainstream right behaves.

Lol. If you think the mainstream right chants "Jews will not replace us" and drives cars into rallies, then I can only infer that you're rather fringy yourself.

Originally Posted by johnny karate

It’s a ridiculously dishonest tactic.

We all see you doing it and no one is falling for it.

Nice to know that you've managed to read everyone's mind, and can speak authoritatively for what everyone else perceives. You should definitely apply for that $1,000,000 prize.

Your inability to view things with even a tiny modicum of objectivity doesn't make anyone else dishonest.

ponderingturtle · 16th November 2020, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Lol. If you think the mainstream right chants "Jews will not replace us" and drives cars into rallies, then I can only infer that you're rather fringy yourself.
.

Yea they just view mexicans as rapists. That is mainstream at least right, otherwise if it was racist then Trump would be saying racist things and they would be supporting him in spite of that racism for some vaguely defined self interest you refuse to expand upon.

johnny karate · 16th November 2020, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Lol. If you think the mainstream right chants "Jews will not replace us" and drives cars into rallies, then I can only infer that you're rather fringy yourself.

The mainstream right is everything the president says and does that gets enabled by the GOP and approved of by millions of Republican voters.

That includes his bigotry, his violent rhetoric, his promotion of conspiracy theories, and takes us all the way up to his current efforts to undermine the democratic process.

There is simply nothing that happens within the mainstream left that even remotely compares, which is why dishonest bothsiders have to manufacture false equivalencies like you so frequently do.

Quote:

Nice to know that you've managed to read everyone's mind, and can speak authoritatively for what everyone else perceives. You should definitely apply for that $1,000,000 prize.

Your inability to view things with even a tiny modicum of objectivity doesn't make anyone else dishonest.

Here’s you making a false claim about violent political rhetoric and your eventual retraction when it was revealed that you made the claim in ignorance of all the facts:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I don't take the side of any of them. And if you took a moment to look around, you would perhaps recognize that the only people on ISF who routinely advocate for violence are all people who consider themselves progressive leftists.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Fair point.

Allow me to amend that to say that that the only people on ISF whose posts I see who routinely advocate for violence are all people who consider themselves progressive leftists.

Lecture me more about objectivity.

SuburbanTurkey · 17th November 2020, 06:04 AM

Mueller libs need to pull their heads out of fantasy land for a minute.

Quote:

They said he has specifically told advisers that he is wary of federal tax investigations of Trump or of challenging any orders Trump may issue granting immunity to members of his staff before he leaves office. One adviser said Biden has made it clear that he "just wants to move on."

Another Biden adviser said, "He's going to be more oriented toward fixing the problems and moving forward than prosecuting them."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...s-say-n1247959

The Democratic party and political cowardice, name a more iconic duo.

Egg · 17th November 2020, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Mueller libs need to pull their heads out of fantasy land for a minute.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...s-say-n1247959

The Democratic party and political cowardice, name a more iconic duo.

That was surely always going to be the public face of it. Biden can't do anything that remotely looks like using the justice system to go after political enemies, especially after the way the current administration has carried it self in that regard. He needs to separate himself from any such processes/investigations. I don't think that rules out all investigations though.

Distracted1 · 17th November 2020, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4.

like spiteful children knocking over sand castles. We agree on that characterization at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FotYss3fRo

SuburbanTurkey · 17th November 2020, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4.

They seemed pretty scared to follow through on the promise to roll back the ACA. I'm sure we'll hear more calls for it now that Republicans are no longer in a position to actually deliver.

Delvo · 17th November 2020, 11:32 AM

The only things that would get Trump out of are the things Biden will be able to give orders about. For his crimes in other jurisdictions, he'll just have to continue to rely on the same unwillingness to prosecute rich people that he's always skated by on before. (Maybe it'll stop working now that it's more widely known that he's only fake-rich.)

Roger Ramjets · 17th November 2020, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior.

Bad translation. Nowhere did I make any distinctions between the intelligence or 'superiority' of conservatives vs. liberals, nor did I say or imply anything about how 'nice' or moral they might be. If you got that impression then it came solely from your own mind.

I simply stated scientific facts. But facts are mean and have a liberal bias!

Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure

Quote:

recent studies have begun to identify biological influences on an individual's political orientation. For example, a twin study shows that a substantial amount of the variability in political ideology reflects genetic influences...Our findings extend previous observations that political attitudes reflect differences in self-regulatory conflict monitoring and recognition of emotional faces by showing that such attitudes are reflected in human brain structure.

stronger liberalism is associated with increased sensitivity to cues for altering a habitual response pattern... individuals with a larger ACC [anterior cingulate cortex] have a higher capacity to tolerate uncertainty and conflicts, allowing them to accept more liberal views.

If you can't accept that, then...

Delvo · 17th November 2020, 11:54 PM

That general difference sounds like it would also affect religiosity & scientificity. Science is all about being willing to accept & adapt to new information, and religion is all about not that.

Louden Wilde · 18th November 2020, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

That general difference sounds like it would also affect religiosity & scientificity. Science is all about being willing to accept & adapt to new information, and religion is all about not that.

Absolutely. But I'm pretty sure that political orientation /religiosity also have a significant environmental influence as well - meaning identical twins raised apart likely are not 100% concordant (if they were, we'd almost certainly have the variants identified).

ChrisBFRPKY · 20th November 2020, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Egg

I live in Minnesota. Those are the demographics of the region. (linky)

I had no idea Minnesota was such a hotbed for Racists and White Supremacy. Your link doesn't show any Native Americans or African Americans at all or any other minorities for that matter. Obscene!

Originally Posted by Egg

I'm going to take this in good faith and just say "astonishing!" - and forever use this post as the best example of denialism I've ever seen.

Oh my, if you think Trump was advocating for reunification of a new Nazi party in Minnesota, then by all means feel free to believe that. There's no law against having beliefs. A Nazi leader loved and admired in Israel with Jewish grandkids sounds a bit out there to me but hey do whatever narrative makes you feel good.

Originally Posted by Egg

I don't find this line of argument convincing and if I did, I wouldn't find the statistics to be convincing either.

I think you find the increase in Minority voter support for Trump disturbing. It runs afoul of the "Trump is a Racist" narrative exposing it for the lie it is.

I must admit I like that. Further, you'll notice Trump has drawn more minorities into the Republican party, not less. It's only a matter of time and I can wait. The days of the Democrat party are numbered.

Hlafordlaes · 20th November 2020, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I had no idea Minnesota was such a hotbed for Racists and White Supremacy. Your link doesn't show any Native Americans or African Americans at all or any other minorities for that matter. Obscene!

Didn't notice the list does not sum to 100%? Obscene!

Quote:

I think you find the increase in Minority voter support for Trump disturbing. It runs afoul of the "Trump is a Racist" narrative exposing it for the lie it is. I must admit I like that. Further, you'll notice Trump has drawn more minorities into the Republican party, not less. It's only a matter of time and I can wait. The days of the Democrat party are numbered.

Not surprised at all. Trump is a demagogue and appeals to weak minds and sundry other sorts prone to being easily titillated -- people who can be convinced by someone slamming a fist on the bar to punctuate a vastly oversimplified "explanation". Humanity has its fair share of such people, and it has nothing to do with race, creed, or what have you.

However, the days of free elections do seem to be over, as nearly half the country is up in arms over imaginary misdeeds, while also being entirely incapable of examining facts and evidence when handed to them on a silver platter. Also not surprising, as it is part and parcel of the exact same trend of rural areas feeling left behind and rebelling violently against modernity, which most visibly started in the Iranian Revolution. No denying Trump's voters feel the same way, employ the same recourse to local religion and tribal traditions, also make violent threats, and express themselves in terms of hatred of all that is other.

Stacyhs · 20th November 2020, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

That general difference sounds like it would also affect religiosity & scientificity. Science is all about being willing to accept & adapt to new information, and religion is all about not that.

In order to be able to accept and adapt to new information, one must be willing to admit one was wrong. Religion is inherently, to a large degree, unable to do that.

ChrisBFRPKY · 20th November 2020, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes

Didn't notice the list does not sum to 100%? Obscene!

Not surprised at all. Trump is a demagogue and appeals to weak minds and sundry other sorts prone to being easily titillated -- people who can be convinced by someone slamming a fist on the bar to punctuate a vastly oversimplified "explanation". Humanity has its fair share of such people, and it has nothing to do with race, creed, or what have you.

However, the days of free elections do seem to be over, as nearly half the country is up in arms over imaginary misdeeds, while also being entirely incapable of examining facts and evidence when handed to them on a silver platter. Also not surprising, as it is part and parcel of the exact same trend of rural areas feeling left behind and rebelling violently against modernity, which most visibly started in the Iranian Revolution. No denying Trump's voters feel the same way, employ the same recourse to local religion and tribal traditions, also make violent threats, and express themselves in terms of hatred of all that is other.

I asked how egg knew the demographics of the crowd at that Trump rally. That link was what I got back. (as expected)

I don't think minorities have weak minds. I think in some areas like Miami Dade county FL, the Dems are having a nervous breakdown over the recent minority support of Trump.

Nearly half the Country is up in arms due to the media push to accept Biden as being rightfully elected by dismissing any claims of foul deeds. Everyone needs to know the election was valid, we need to know.

Stacyhs · 20th November 2020, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I asked how egg knew the demographics of the crowd at that Trump rally. That link was what I got back. (as expected)

I don't think minorities have weak minds. I think in some areas like Miami Dade county FL, the Dems are having a nervous breakdown over the recent minority support of Trump.

Nearly half the Country is up in arms due to the media push to accept Biden as being rightfully elected by dismissing any claims of foul deeds. Everyone needs to know the election was valid, we need to know.

Um...no.

Quote:

While 60% of Americans believe Biden won the election fair and square, 32% say he only won it due to voter fraud.

Thirty-two percent is not "nearly half" the country. That's the same number that has almost always been Trump's base. You know...the ones he said that would still vote for him if he shot someone on 5th Avenue. The more time that goes by, the more true that proves to be.

Roger Ramjets · 20th November 2020, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I think you find the increase in Minority voter support for Trump disturbing. It runs afoul of the "Trump is a Racist" narrative exposing it for the lie it is.

Nope, it just confirms what a lot of us already knew, that racism in the US is not confined only to white Christian males. Or to put it another way, Deplorables are found in all groups both majority and minority - and Trump is skilled at encouraging them.

Trump is definitely racist. That some Latinos, Blacks, Asians and Cubans are too is not evidence against it. In fact interminority racism is a well known effect of marginalization, and Trump naturally uses this to his advantage.

Some also support Trump for other reasons, such as 'anti-socialist' Cuban Americans hoping the US will invade Cuba for them, or Hispanics who are worried about illegal immigrants taking 'their' jobs. Trump is a populist who tells people what they want to hear and provides simplistic 'solutions' to their grievances and fears. So some voted for him because he promised to 'bring back coal' (which never happened), or 'build a wall and make Mexico pay for it' (which didn't happen either) etc. They would gladly trade a little racism to get what they want. Deplorable for sure, but whites don't have a monopoly on that.

Roger Ramjets · 20th November 2020, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Nearly half the Country is up in arms due to the media push to accept Biden as being rightfully elected by dismissing any claims of foul deeds.

The same criteria that 'the media' used to call previous elections (including Trump in 2016)? The same 'foul deeds' that Republican election officials, security watchdogs and judges are also 'dismissing' because it is a fantasy?

'Nearly half' the country is up in arms for one reason, their guy lost. After months of him lying to them about how the only way he could lose would be if foul deeds were committed - who insisted that all those popular votes for Hillary were fraudulent, and that he had the biggest inauguration crowd 'ever' - and they 'believe' him simply because he's their guy - pure partisanship not tainted by even the tiniest smidgen of fact.

'Nearly half' (actually ~35%) of the country is Deplorable. This is not news.

Quote:

Everyone needs to know the election was valid, we need to know.

And we will, unless Trump and his lackies subvert it. OTOH, if their shenanigans result in an invalid election then we will know about that too - and be mighty pissed.

So far the evidence is showing that this is the most secure election in our history, and there is zero indication of any 'foul deeds' by Biden or his supporters - exactly as all rational people expected. That means the people who are 'up in arms' have no logical reason to be upset - except because their guy lost.

ChrisBFRPKY · 21st November 2020, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

Nope, it just confirms what a lot of us already knew, that racism in the US is not confined only to white Christian males. Or to put it another way, Deplorables are found in all groups both majority and minority - and Trump is skilled at encouraging them.

Trump is definitely racist. That some Latinos, Blacks, Asians and Cubans are too is not evidence against it. In fact interminority racism is a well known effect of marginalization, and Trump naturally uses this to his advantage.

Some also support Trump for other reasons, such as 'anti-socialist' Cuban Americans hoping the US will invade Cuba for them, or Hispanics who are worried about illegal immigrants taking 'their' jobs. Trump is a populist who tells people what they want to hear and provides simplistic 'solutions' to their grievances and fears. So some voted for him because he promised to 'bring back coal' (which never happened), or 'build a wall and make Mexico pay for it' (which didn't happen either) etc. They would gladly trade a little racism to get what they want. Deplorable for sure, but whites don't have a monopoly on that.

Ah, so everyone that supports Trump is a racist. Those minorities that voted for Trump are racists as well. Hilarious.

Edited by zooterkin:

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

13th November 2020, 09:21 AM	#241
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,919	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy I don't want to see him playing nice with Mitch McConnell because Mitch McConnell is a proven snake with a history of promising absolutely anything when he needs bipartisan cooperation before stabbing Dems in the back first chance he gets. Am I a Bernie Bro or do I hate America? Unfortunately, if the Georgia Senate run-off elections go to the Republicans, Biden will have to "play nice" with Moscow Mitch. Of course, based on MM's track record, "playing nice" should consist of any deal being predicated on the "You go first, Mitch" principle. Get what you want from him first, then give him what he wants after. The only other option is to just accept that nothing will get done.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

13th November 2020, 09:24 AM	#242
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,399	Biden's base is shaky, but Mitch no longer has a base without Trump.
	__________________ Ceterum autem censeo fox et amicis esse delendam.

13th November 2020, 10:53 AM	#243
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 13,817	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets "My niece represents what all liberals think". Good to know. Or are you saying she doesn't? In which case what relevance does this have? Does the fringiest fringe on the left represent all liberals, in your opinion? If not, then your post is irrelevant.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

13th November 2020, 10:54 AM	#244
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 13,817	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets You may ask, why does this behavior seem mostly limited to conservatives and not liberals? The reason is deep-seated psychological differences between the conservative and liberal mind. Conservatives can't handle change, so they have to deny that it is sometimes necessary. Liberals are more open to change and can see its advantages. Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

13th November 2020, 11:19 AM	#248
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 13,817	Originally Posted by johnny karate No one is talking about the “fringiest fringe” of the right. We’re talking about mainstream Republicansim. That you constantly attempt these desperately false equivalencies only reveals the utter dishonesty of your approach. Nobody is talking about the fringiest fringe... except for those of us who were literally talking about the fringiest fringe. Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy The fringiest fringe on the left won't vote for the mainstream candidate. The fringiest fringe on the right chants "Jews will not replace us," drives cars into protest crowds, and is gearing up for the coming race war. Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy Are you saying your niece isn't the fringiest fringe on the left just for refusing to vote for Biden, or are you saying your niece would carve a MAGA sign into people's foreheads? Because you said the former, but now you're suggesting I'm supposed to have perceived the latter. Originally Posted by Emily's Cat My niece has a lot of very fringy ideas, including accelerationism of civil war by any means in order to get the grand revolution and convert (by force) the country into a communist utopia. If you insist on continuing to engage in personal attacks, at least make sure you are accurate in your references.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

13th November 2020, 10:59 AM	#245
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,202	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior. Translation: I have no desire to actually look at facts or acknowledge reality and instead will continue to adhere to an irrational need to balance the scales.

13th November 2020, 11:03 AM	#246
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,202	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Does the fringiest fringe on the left represent all liberals, in your opinion? If not, then your post is irrelevant. No one is talking about the “fringiest fringe” of the right. We’re talking about mainstream Republicansim. That you constantly attempt these desperately false equivalencies only reveals the utter dishonesty of your approach.

13th November 2020, 11:13 AM	#247
CORed Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 10,007	Originally Posted by johnny karate No one is talking about the “fringiest fringe” of the right. We’re talking about mainstream Republicansim. That you constantly attempt these desperately false equivalencies only reveals the utter dishonesty of your approach. Well, I would hold that the "fringiest fringe" of the right pretty much is mainstream Republican.

13th November 2020, 01:09 PM	#249
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,980	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior. Okay fine it's "mean" but at a certain point if you're factually wrong about everything and psychopathically evil about everything else what are we supposed to call it? Your "no one side just isn't allowed to be that wrong, it's not fair" fetish is so much meaningless twaddle. Why is it so often that it seems like the Trumper's main strategy is to actually be so horrible that just describing them triggers people's "Oh they can't be that bad, you're being mean" routine? No I'm not playing the stupid, inane "No wait I demand you stop and define the exact ratio of Trump supporters you think meet this criteria" game that both sides want to play. I don't care about mathematically defining some fringe to mainstream ratio. Enough. That's my answer. Enough. It's not worth it in trying to save the babies in this particular bathwater anymore. If a few can crawl out on their own, so be it. Maybe we can work with them later. But they have to make the first move. The onus isn't on us.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

13th November 2020, 03:03 PM	#250
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior. Both sides are bad, dumb and mean. We are superior to both sides? There are many people believing things that are objectively false - and they vote in large numbers. Trying to analyze what makes them do that at a psychological level isn't trying to demonize people, it's trying to understand them. If we're looking to improve messaging and policy and try to heal divides, that seems like a pretty good start to me.
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	__________________ _{"That's the thing with eggs: It's all about chicks and getting laid." - Wuschel} _{"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg" - Samuel Butler} _{“When arguing with a stone an egg is always wrong” - African proverb} _{“A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked” - Bernard Meltzer} Last edited by Egg; 13th November 2020 at 03:08 PM.

13th November 2020, 03:34 PM	#251
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 13,817	Originally Posted by Egg Both sides are bad, dumb and mean. We are superior to both sides? Nah. Both sides have a mix of good and bad, about widely diverse topics, and neither is superior to the other in general. But partisans of either will insist that whichever "we" they belong to is far better then the "they" of the other side.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

13th November 2020, 03:46 PM	#252
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,545	Again, when I hear someone claiming that "both sides are equally bad", I see someone supporting side that has most, if not all, blame. This kind of claim is never sincere.
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

13th November 2020, 04:22 PM	#253
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Nah. Both sides have a mix of good and bad, about widely diverse topics, and neither is superior to the other in general. But partisans of either will insist that whichever "we" they belong to is far better then the "they" of the other side. I feel that this was a more true statement back in the days of shared facts.
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	__________________ _{"That's the thing with eggs: It's all about chicks and getting laid." - Wuschel} _{"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg" - Samuel Butler} _{“When arguing with a stone an egg is always wrong” - African proverb} _{“A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked” - Bernard Meltzer}

13th November 2020, 05:38 PM	#254
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,980	Why are we being talked to like Trump supporters have extended some olive branch we've slapped away? The only difference is one of the balance of power. They haven't recanted their "**** your feelings and crawl back to your safe place before I drink your tears snowflake" mentality to my knowledge. "I want things to be more civil because I don't have the high ground anymore and know I'm scared" isn't compromise.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

13th November 2020, 06:57 PM	#255
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,587	Originally Posted by Egg Agreed! I also agree with the posters pointing out that discrimination based on political opinions is quite a different category from racism. But I can also understand how a generalization of Trump supporters looks like prejudice. Genuine question about the quote in your sig (and apologies if you've covered this elsewhere): So, that's from a statement written for Trump to read after he got into hot water from his comments after Charlotsville. It was a good statement and I think we'd all agree with the bulk of it. Do you believe that it actually represents Trump's real opinion, considering some of the other stuff he's said when not scripted? For example, his comments on racehorse theory from his Bemidji rally in September (audience made up mostly of Scandy/German descendants) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PqlMfq6lU. To be honest, I was horrified. Where did this demographic on the attendance come from? As far as the "genes" conversation. You may not be aware that in the US the frontier was settled by tough individuals. These people endured much hardship to settle this Country. Those that were not able to endure, died. Survival of the fittest. Seems horrible by today's standards but back then it was a matter of fact. Many of the descendants of those people are proud of their heritage. It has nothing to do with anything nefarious. So far it looks as if Trump received approx 12% of the Black vote and possibly over 20% support in real numbers. In specific areas of Miami Dade county FL, he reportedly received 52% of the Hispanic vote. For a racist? Overall I would say the argument for Trump being a racist has been exposed as a false claim by the 2020 results. But that's no surprise. The next Republican candidate will be called "racist" as well. It happens every single time.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,587	__________________ “Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.” August 14, 2017 President Donald John Trump

13th November 2020, 07:02 PM	#256
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,861	Originally Posted by Mader Levap Again, when I hear someone claiming that "both sides are equally bad", I see someone supporting side that has most, if not all, blame. This kind of claim is never sincere.

13th November 2020, 07:13 PM	#257
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,587	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Why are we being talked to like Trump supporters have extended some olive branch we've slapped away? The only difference is one of the balance of power. They haven't recanted their "**** your feelings and crawl back to your safe place before I drink your tears snowflake" mentality to my knowledge. "I want things to be more civil because I don't have the high ground anymore and know I'm scared" isn't compromise. Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,587	__________________ “Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.” August 14, 2017 President Donald John Trump

13th November 2020, 07:15 PM	#258
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,861	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4. Mitch McConnell: "ahem.."

13th November 2020, 08:28 PM	#259
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Where did this demographic on the attendance come from? I live in Minnesota. Those are the demographics of the region. (linky) Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY As far as the "genes" conversation. You may not be aware that in the US the frontier was settled by tough individuals. These people endured much hardship to settle this Country. Those that were not able to endure, died. Survival of the fittest. Seems horrible by today's standards but back then it was a matter of fact. Many of the descendants of those people are proud of their heritage. It has nothing to do with anything nefarious. I'm going to take this in good faith and just say "astonishing!" - and forever use this post as the best example of denialism I've ever seen. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY So far it looks as if Trump received approx 12% of the Black vote and possibly over 20% support in real numbers. In specific areas of Miami Dade county FL, he reportedly received 52% of the Hispanic vote. For a racist? Overall I would say the argument for Trump being a racist has been exposed as a false claim by the 2020 results. But that's no surprise. The next Republican candidate will be called "racist" as well. It happens every single time. I don't find this line of argument convincing and if I did, I wouldn't find the statistics to be convincing either.
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	__________________ _{"That's the thing with eggs: It's all about chicks and getting laid." - Wuschel} _{"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg" - Samuel Butler} _{“When arguing with a stone an egg is always wrong” - African proverb} _{“A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked” - Bernard Meltzer} Last edited by Egg; 13th November 2020 at 08:52 PM.

14th November 2020, 11:00 AM	#260
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,202	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Nobody is talking about the fringiest fringe... except for those of us who were literally talking about the fringiest fringe. Except no, you’re not. You’re trying to compare how the fringe left behaves to how the mainstream right behaves. It’s a ridiculously dishonest tactic. We all see you doing it and no one is falling for it.

16th November 2020, 09:49 AM	#261
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 13,817	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Why are we being talked to like Trump supporters have extended some olive branch we've slapped away? Have you considered that perhaps those of us suggesting some kind of grown-up approach don't give a crap what Trump supporters do? And that maybe, just maybe, we don't want to deal with this Hatfield-McCoy feud-like petty vengeance approach to the politics that affect our lives?
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

16th November 2020, 09:53 AM	#262
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 13,817	Originally Posted by johnny karate Except no, you’re not. You’re trying to compare how the fringe left behaves to how the mainstream right behaves. Lol. If you think the mainstream right chants "Jews will not replace us" and drives cars into rallies, then I can only infer that you're rather fringy yourself. Originally Posted by johnny karate It’s a ridiculously dishonest tactic. We all see you doing it and no one is falling for it. Nice to know that you've managed to read everyone's mind, and can speak authoritatively for what everyone else perceives. You should definitely apply for that $1,000,000 prize. Your inability to view things with even a tiny modicum of objectivity doesn't make anyone else dishonest.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

16th November 2020, 10:26 AM	#263
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,180	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Lol. If you think the mainstream right chants "Jews will not replace us" and drives cars into rallies, then I can only infer that you're rather fringy yourself. . Yea they just view mexicans as rapists. That is mainstream at least right, otherwise if it was racist then Trump would be saying racist things and they would be supporting him in spite of that racism for some vaguely defined self interest you refuse to expand upon.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

16th November 2020, 10:38 AM	#264
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,202	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Lol. If you think the mainstream right chants "Jews will not replace us" and drives cars into rallies, then I can only infer that you're rather fringy yourself. The mainstream right is everything the president says and does that gets enabled by the GOP and approved of by millions of Republican voters. That includes his bigotry, his violent rhetoric, his promotion of conspiracy theories, and takes us all the way up to his current efforts to undermine the democratic process. There is simply nothing that happens within the mainstream left that even remotely compares, which is why dishonest bothsiders have to manufacture false equivalencies like you so frequently do. Quote: Nice to know that you've managed to read everyone's mind, and can speak authoritatively for what everyone else perceives. You should definitely apply for that $1,000,000 prize. Your inability to view things with even a tiny modicum of objectivity doesn't make anyone else dishonest. Here’s you making a false claim about violent political rhetoric and your eventual retraction when it was revealed that you made the claim in ignorance of all the facts: Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I don't take the side of any of them. And if you took a moment to look around, you would perhaps recognize that the only people on ISF who routinely advocate for violence are all people who consider themselves progressive leftists. Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Fair point. Allow me to amend that to say that that the only people on ISF whose posts I see who routinely advocate for violence are all people who consider themselves progressive leftists. Lecture me more about objectivity.

17th November 2020, 06:04 AM	#265
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 7,305	Mueller libs need to pull their heads out of fantasy land for a minute. Quote: They said he has specifically told advisers that he is wary of federal tax investigations of Trump or of challenging any orders Trump may issue granting immunity to members of his staff before he leaves office. One adviser said Biden has made it clear that he "just wants to move on." Another Biden adviser said, "He's going to be more oriented toward fixing the problems and moving forward than prosecuting them." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...s-say-n1247959 The Democratic party and political cowardice, name a more iconic duo.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

17th November 2020, 10:48 AM	#266
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Mueller libs need to pull their heads out of fantasy land for a minute. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...s-say-n1247959 The Democratic party and political cowardice, name a more iconic duo. That was surely always going to be the public face of it. Biden can't do anything that remotely looks like using the justice system to go after political enemies, especially after the way the current administration has carried it self in that regard. He needs to separate himself from any such processes/investigations. I don't think that rules out all investigations though.
Egg Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,545	__________________ _{"That's the thing with eggs: It's all about chicks and getting laid." - Wuschel} _{"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg" - Samuel Butler} _{“When arguing with a stone an egg is always wrong” - African proverb} _{“A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked” - Bernard Meltzer}

17th November 2020, 11:27 AM	#267
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,204	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4. like spiteful children knocking over sand castles. We agree on that characterization at least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FotYss3fRo
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. Last edited by Distracted1; 17th November 2020 at 11:31 AM.

17th November 2020, 11:30 AM	#268
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 7,305	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Funny. I don't think you'll find any "scared" Trump supporters. We tend to stand by our beliefs. As President Trump has proven there's not much the Democrats can do in 8 years that can't be undone by a Republican in 4. They seemed pretty scared to follow through on the promise to roll back the ACA. I'm sure we'll hear more calls for it now that Republicans are no longer in a position to actually deliver.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 17th November 2020 at 11:38 AM.

17th November 2020, 11:32 AM	#269
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,216	The only things that would get Trump out of are the things Biden will be able to give orders about. For his crimes in other jurisdictions, he'll just have to continue to rely on the same unwillingness to prosecute rich people that he's always skated by on before. (Maybe it'll stop working now that it's more widely known that he's only fake-rich.)

17th November 2020, 11:38 PM	#270
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,279	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Translation: We are good, they are bad. We are smart, they are dumb. We are nice, they are mean. We are superior, they are inferior. Bad translation. Nowhere did I make any distinctions between the intelligence or 'superiority' of conservatives vs. liberals, nor did I say or imply anything about how 'nice' or moral they might be. If you got that impression then it came solely from your own mind. I simply stated scientific facts. But facts are mean and have a liberal bias! Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure Quote: recent studies have begun to identify biological influences on an individual's political orientation. For example, a twin study shows that a substantial amount of the variability in political ideology reflects genetic influences...Our findings extend previous observations that political attitudes reflect differences in self-regulatory conflict monitoring and recognition of emotional faces by showing that such attitudes are reflected in human brain structure. stronger liberalism is associated with increased sensitivity to cues for altering a habitual response pattern... individuals with a larger ACC [anterior cingulate cortex] have a higher capacity to tolerate uncertainty and conflicts, allowing them to accept more liberal views. If you can't accept that, then...
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

17th November 2020, 11:54 PM	#271
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,216	That general difference sounds like it would also affect religiosity & scientificity. Science is all about being willing to accept & adapt to new information, and religion is all about not that.

18th November 2020, 07:10 PM	#272
Louden Wilde Scholar Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: NYC Posts: 94	Originally Posted by Delvo That general difference sounds like it would also affect religiosity & scientificity. Science is all about being willing to accept & adapt to new information, and religion is all about not that. Absolutely. But I'm pretty sure that political orientation /religiosity also have a significant environmental influence as well - meaning identical twins raised apart likely are not 100% concordant (if they were, we'd almost certainly have the variants identified).

20th November 2020, 02:56 AM	#273
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,587	Originally Posted by Egg I live in Minnesota. Those are the demographics of the region. (linky) I had no idea Minnesota was such a hotbed for Racists and White Supremacy. Your link doesn't show any Native Americans or African Americans at all or any other minorities for that matter. Obscene! Originally Posted by Egg I'm going to take this in good faith and just say "astonishing!" - and forever use this post as the best example of denialism I've ever seen. Oh my, if you think Trump was advocating for reunification of a new Nazi party in Minnesota, then by all means feel free to believe that. There's no law against having beliefs. A Nazi leader loved and admired in Israel with Jewish grandkids sounds a bit out there to me but hey do whatever narrative makes you feel good. Originally Posted by Egg I don't find this line of argument convincing and if I did, I wouldn't find the statistics to be convincing either. I think you find the increase in Minority voter support for Trump disturbing. It runs afoul of the "Trump is a Racist" narrative exposing it for the lie it is. I must admit I like that. Further, you'll notice Trump has drawn more minorities into the Republican party, not less. It's only a matter of time and I can wait. The days of the Democrat party are numbered.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,587	__________________ “Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.” August 14, 2017 President Donald John Trump

20th November 2020, 05:32 AM	#274
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 14,358	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I had no idea Minnesota was such a hotbed for Racists and White Supremacy. Your link doesn't show any Native Americans or African Americans at all or any other minorities for that matter. Obscene! Didn't notice the list does not sum to 100%? Obscene! Quote: I think you find the increase in Minority voter support for Trump disturbing. It runs afoul of the "Trump is a Racist" narrative exposing it for the lie it is. I must admit I like that. Further, you'll notice Trump has drawn more minorities into the Republican party, not less. It's only a matter of time and I can wait. The days of the Democrat party are numbered. Not surprised at all. Trump is a demagogue and appeals to weak minds and sundry other sorts prone to being easily titillated -- people who can be convinced by someone slamming a fist on the bar to punctuate a vastly oversimplified "explanation". Humanity has its fair share of such people, and it has nothing to do with race, creed, or what have you. However, the days of free elections do seem to be over, as nearly half the country is up in arms over imaginary misdeeds, while also being entirely incapable of examining facts and evidence when handed to them on a silver platter. Also not surprising, as it is part and parcel of the exact same trend of rural areas feeling left behind and rebelling violently against modernity, which most visibly started in the Iranian Revolution. No denying Trump's voters feel the same way, employ the same recourse to local religion and tribal traditions, also make violent threats, and express themselves in terms of hatred of all that is other.
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

20th November 2020, 02:13 PM	#275
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 17,482	Originally Posted by Delvo That general difference sounds like it would also affect religiosity & scientificity. Science is all about being willing to accept & adapt to new information, and religion is all about not that. In order to be able to accept and adapt to new information, one must be willing to admit one was wrong. Religion is inherently, to a large degree, unable to do that.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 20th November 2020 at 02:16 PM.