Who Determines Majority Leader in a Split Senate?

Athyrio · 12th January 2021, 08:10 PM

We are about to have a 50-50 split Senate and everything I read says McConnell will become the minority leader because Harris is a Democrat. But what if she suddenly went ape feces and declared herself to be an Independent or anything else, and said she would vote whateverthehell way she wanted to? We’ve seen a POTUS go nuts, why not a Veep? I doubt Harris would do so and I look forward to her Presidency should I live long enough, but what if another similar scenario developed?

Would it be proper for the Senate to designate who the majority/minority is in a 50-50 split with a deranged or independently enlightened VP or should they drop the terms temporarily until voting outcome becomes more certain?

https://www.wqad.com/mobile/article/...a-f942d1994683

This was the best article I could find that discussed the subject. Apparently there are no written rules.

JoeMorgue · 12th January 2021, 08:18 PM

"Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party.

Technically the Republicans could argue they are still the Majority Party since the Democratic Caucus includes 2 independents and 48 Democrats, but I don't see that happening since it doesn't really matter for any practical purposes.

acbytesla · 12th January 2021, 08:28 PM

There are elections. The Senators vote on positions. The Vice President HAS to cast a vote in a tie situation. It is the only Constitutional mandated duty a Vice President has. She could flip sides flipping the Senate if she desired. But she must vote.

acbytesla · 12th January 2021, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party.

Technically the Republicans could argue they are still the Majority Party since the Democratic Caucus includes 2 independents and 48 Democrats, but I don't see that happening since it doesn't really matter for any practical purposes.

This is not true Joe. McConnell prevented bills from even being considered by the Senate.

RecoveringYuppy · 12th January 2021, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

This is not true Joe. McConnell prevented bills from even being considered by the Senate.

Given that a common dictionary definition of ceremonial is "having no real power or influence" I have to assume Joe was joking?

But he is right about it not being defined in the Constitution. Senators could wipe the position out any time they choose to. It's existed less than a century I believe.

acbytesla · 12th January 2021, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Given that a common dictionary definition of ceremonial is "having no real power or influence" I have to assume Joe was joking?

But he is right about it not being defined in the Constitution. Senators could wipe the position out any time they choose to. It's existed less than a century I believe.

The Constitution says very little about the rules of either branch of the legislature. The rules of the Senate and the House are passed before every session usually changing little.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th January 2021, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party.

Technically the Republicans could argue they are still the Majority Party since the Democratic Caucus includes 2 independents and 48 Democrats, but I don't see that happening since it doesn't really matter for any practical purposes.

No, just no.

The 2 independents are Sanders and Angus King of Maine, both caucus with the Democrats making them count as Democrats for purposes of assigning Majority Leader.

The VP breaks the tie and it is critically important because the Majority Leader sets the calendar. Nothing can come up for a vote unless the Majority Leader allows it.

That's how McConnell blocked Merrick Garland's appointment to the SCOTUS.

RecoveringYuppy · 12th January 2021, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

The Constitution says very little about the rules of either branch of the legislature. The rules of the Senate and the House are passed before every session usually changing little.

yep.

RecoveringYuppy · 12th January 2021, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

The VP breaks the tie

Yep.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

and it is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar. Nothing can come up for a vote unless the majority leader allows it.

Nope. That can be changed any time the Senate decides to change it.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th January 2021, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Yep.

Nope. That can be changed any time the Senate decides to change it.

1) There's zero chance of that happening.
2) So for all intents and purposes, it is what I said.

RecoveringYuppy · 12th January 2021, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

1) There's zero chance of that happening.
2) So for all intents and purposes, it is what I said.

Then you've identified the wrong thing as being critically important.

Delphic Oracle · 12th January 2021, 09:23 PM

The Majority Leader does control the schedule. This is because, assuming caucus solidarity, if push came to shove and there was cloture on every step of every bill, that person is essentially controlling the schedule anyways.

Most procedures go along on unanimous consent (nobody objecting) and the floor leader is essentially crafting those agreements out in advance as much as possible. When that person doesn't want something to move, it is usually something that wouldn't move anyways or has been horse-traded for something else to move, etc.

ETA: The Senate has a Republican Majority until Kamala Harris takes office and becomes President of the Senate (and her seat is filled?).

Skeptic Ginger · 12th January 2021, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Then you've identified the wrong thing as being critically important.

Setting the calendar isn't the critically important thing?

RecoveringYuppy · 12th January 2021, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Setting the calendar isn't the critically important thing?

Are you now identifying that as the critical thing? That isn't what you said earlier.

acbytesla · 12th January 2021, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

ETA: The Senate has a Republican Majority until Kamala Harris takes office and becomes President of the Senate (and her seat is filled?).

Alex Padilla will fill her seat on January 20th.

Delphic Oracle · 12th January 2021, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Alex Padilla will fill her seat on January 20th.

I figured something was lined up.

Skeptic Ginger · 12th January 2021, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Are you now identifying that as the critical thing? That isn't what you said earlier.

Yes it is.

"it is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar"

Skeptic Ginger · 12th January 2021, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

I figured something was lined up.

Georgia has until the 22nd to seat its 2 Senators. Technically until they are seated, Loeffler is still the Senator for one of the seats.

Hopefully GA will certify its Senators sooner.

RecoveringYuppy · 12th January 2021, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Yes it is.

"it is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar"

You've now just told me that "Setting the calendar is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar".

Start over. See the simple.

12th January 2021, 08:10 PM	#1
Athyrio Hipster Doofus Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Nutsack, FL Posts: 2,169	Who Determines Majority Leader in a Split Senate? We are about to have a 50-50 split Senate and everything I read says McConnell will become the minority leader because Harris is a Democrat. But what if she suddenly went ape feces and declared herself to be an Independent or anything else, and said she would vote whateverthehell way she wanted to? We’ve seen a POTUS go nuts, why not a Veep? I doubt Harris would do so and I look forward to her Presidency should I live long enough, but what if another similar scenario developed? Would it be proper for the Senate to designate who the majority/minority is in a 50-50 split with a deranged or independently enlightened VP or should they drop the terms temporarily until voting outcome becomes more certain? https://www.wqad.com/mobile/article/...a-f942d1994683 This was the best article I could find that discussed the subject. Apparently there are no written rules.
	__________________ Knowledge is good.... Emil Faber

12th January 2021, 08:18 PM	#2
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,605	"Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party. Technically the Republicans could argue they are still the Majority Party since the Democratic Caucus includes 2 independents and 48 Democrats, but I don't see that happening since it doesn't really matter for any practical purposes.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

12th January 2021, 08:28 PM	#3
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,197	There are elections. The Senators vote on positions. The Vice President HAS to cast a vote in a tie situation. It is the only Constitutional mandated duty a Vice President has. She could flip sides flipping the Senate if she desired. But she must vote.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 12th January 2021 at 09:03 PM.

12th January 2021, 08:31 PM	#4
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,197	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party. Technically the Republicans could argue they are still the Majority Party since the Democratic Caucus includes 2 independents and 48 Democrats, but I don't see that happening since it doesn't really matter for any practical purposes. This is not true Joe. McConnell prevented bills from even being considered by the Senate.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

12th January 2021, 08:48 PM	#5
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,701	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party. Originally Posted by acbytesla This is not true Joe. McConnell prevented bills from even being considered by the Senate. Given that a common dictionary definition of ceremonial is "having no real power or influence" I have to assume Joe was joking? But he is right about it not being defined in the Constitution. Senators could wipe the position out any time they choose to. It's existed less than a century I believe.
	Last edited by RecoveringYuppy; 12th January 2021 at 08:51 PM.

12th January 2021, 08:55 PM	#6
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,197	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Given that a common dictionary definition of ceremonial is "having no real power or influence" I have to assume Joe was joking? But he is right about it not being defined in the Constitution. Senators could wipe the position out any time they choose to. It's existed less than a century I believe. The Constitution says very little about the rules of either branch of the legislature. The rules of the Senate and the House are passed before every session usually changing little.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

12th January 2021, 08:57 PM	#7
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,842	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "Majority Leader" isn't a position like Speaker of the House or President of the Senate, it's just a ceremonial (albeit massively influential and powerful) position voted on by members of the party. Technically the Republicans could argue they are still the Majority Party since the Democratic Caucus includes 2 independents and 48 Democrats, but I don't see that happening since it doesn't really matter for any practical purposes. No, just no. The 2 independents are Sanders and Angus King of Maine, both caucus with the Democrats making them count as Democrats for purposes of assigning Majority Leader. The VP breaks the tie and it is critically important because the Majority Leader sets the calendar. Nothing can come up for a vote unless the Majority Leader allows it. That's how McConnell blocked Merrick Garland's appointment to the SCOTUS.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 12th January 2021 at 09:02 PM.

12th January 2021, 08:58 PM	#8
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,701	Originally Posted by acbytesla The Constitution says very little about the rules of either branch of the legislature. The rules of the Senate and the House are passed before every session usually changing little. yep.

12th January 2021, 08:59 PM	#9
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,701	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger The VP breaks the tie Yep. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger and it is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar. Nothing can come up for a vote unless the majority leader allows it. Nope. That can be changed any time the Senate decides to change it.

12th January 2021, 09:05 PM	#10
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,842	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Yep. Nope. That can be changed any time the Senate decides to change it. 1) There's zero chance of that happening. 2) So for all intents and purposes, it is what I said.

12th January 2021, 09:09 PM	#11
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,701	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger 1) There's zero chance of that happening. 2) So for all intents and purposes, it is what I said. Then you've identified the wrong thing as being critically important.

12th January 2021, 09:23 PM	#12
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,351	The Majority Leader does control the schedule. This is because, assuming caucus solidarity, if push came to shove and there was cloture on every step of every bill, that person is essentially controlling the schedule anyways. Most procedures go along on unanimous consent (nobody objecting) and the floor leader is essentially crafting those agreements out in advance as much as possible. When that person doesn't want something to move, it is usually something that wouldn't move anyways or has been horse-traded for something else to move, etc. ETA: The Senate has a Republican Majority until Kamala Harris takes office and becomes President of the Senate (and her seat is filled?).
	Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 12th January 2021 at 09:26 PM.

12th January 2021, 09:29 PM	#13
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,842	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Then you've identified the wrong thing as being critically important. Setting the calendar isn't the critically important thing?

12th January 2021, 09:37 PM	#14
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,701	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Setting the calendar isn't the critically important thing? Are you now identifying that as the critical thing? That isn't what you said earlier.

12th January 2021, 09:39 PM	#15
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,197	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle ETA: The Senate has a Republican Majority until Kamala Harris takes office and becomes President of the Senate (and her seat is filled?). Alex Padilla will fill her seat on January 20th.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 12th January 2021 at 09:40 PM.

12th January 2021, 09:44 PM	#16
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,351	Originally Posted by acbytesla Alex Padilla will fill her seat on January 20th. I figured something was lined up.

12th January 2021, 11:22 PM	#17
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,842	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Are you now identifying that as the critical thing? That isn't what you said earlier. Yes it is. "it is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar"

12th January 2021, 11:24 PM	#18
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,842	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle I figured something was lined up. Georgia has until the 22nd to seat its 2 Senators. Technically until they are seated, Loeffler is still the Senator for one of the seats. Hopefully GA will certify its Senators sooner.

12th January 2021, 11:33 PM	#19
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,701	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Yes it is. "it is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar" You've now just told me that "Setting the calendar is critically important because the Majority leader sets the calendar". Start over. See the simple.