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Tags donald trump , political predictions , political speculation , presidential pardons , Trump controversies

View Poll Results: Will Trump pardon himself?
Yes 48 82.76%
No 10 17.24%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13th January 2021, 08:54 AM   #81
Segnosaur
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Someone posted this article in another thread, but I thought it would be more relevant here...

From: Yahoo
After last week's assault on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters, right after Trump urged them to march on the Capitol, Trump is not in the pardoning mood. "The president has been warned, David, by some of his lawyers that if he goes ahead and pardons himself, he could be more vulnerable to civil lawsuits, including from some of those injured in the Capitol riot, because a self-pardon would be seen as an admission that he did something wrong that he would need to be pardoned for," (Reporter Johnathan) Karl said. "The president is angry, he has not taken that well, and I am told that he is now saying that he doesn't want to see pardons for anybody. So the attitude seems to be: 'If I can't get a pardon, then nobody else should get one, either.'"

Earlier, someone suggested Trump might try self pardoning because there is "no risk". Well, looks like there might be a risk because Trump could get sued by MAGAchuds who fell for his claims.
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:11 AM   #82
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I have to wonder if Trump is aware that even if Trump pardons successfully pardons himself:

1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime.

2) Pardons do not cover civil issues like law suits and debts. Therefore, Trump will still be on the hook for the hundreds of millions that he owes to other people. Also, it is quite possible that he will face law suits resulting from the numerous lies that he has told and the insurrection that he recently caused.

3) Pardons do not cover state crimes. And Trump is under serious investigation in New York right now for some of the crimes that he committed there.
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:15 AM   #83
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Sadly it's probably a case of "No I'm pardoning myself but not admitting guilt because I say so" and it maybe still (much less certain now than even a few days ago to be fair) working on his base.
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:16 AM   #84
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I have to wonder if Trump is aware that even if Trump pardons successfully pardons himself:

1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime.

2) Pardons do not cover civil issues like law suits and debts. Therefore, Trump will still be on the hook for the hundreds of millions that he owes to other people. Also, it is quite possible that he will face law suits resulting from the numerous lies that he has told and the insurrection that he recently caused.
If he wasn't aware before, he might be now. (The article I posted above points out that Trump may have stopped granting all pardons because he is having a temper tantrum when lawyers explained the risk to him.)
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:17 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Sadly it's probably a case of "No I'm pardoning myself but not admitting guilt because I say so" and it maybe still (much less certain now than even a few days ago to be fair) working on his base.
May work on his base... but in courts, it has to work on the judge and jury. And I am sure that they will be trying to screen out any MAGAchuds during jury selection.
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:24 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Sadly it's probably a case of "No I'm pardoning myself but not admitting guilt because I say so"[]
Which ought to be known as the Alford Pardon.

Dave
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:25 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
If he wasn't aware before, he might be now. (The article I posted above points out that Trump may have stopped granting all pardons because he is having a temper tantrum when lawyers explained the risk to him.)
Wow!

That sure explains a great many things.
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Old 13th January 2021, 09:54 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I have to wonder if Trump is aware that even if Trump pardons successfully pardons himself:

1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime..
A lot of people say this, but is it well settled law? And even if it is, does it matter to Trump? His followers won't know it or believe it if he tells them not to.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:08 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Quote:
1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime..
A lot of people say this, but is it well settled law?
No it isn't.

There was a case (Burdick v. United States) which people think makes that insinuation, but that was more a case of "can you reject a pardon" rather than "does it imply guilt".

Heck, the fact that pardons can be issued because a person was exonerated due to new evidence shows that Pardons don't have to imply guilt (at least in a legal sense.)

Now, that doesn't mean there can't be repercussions.... even though accepting a pardon isn't a legal admission of guilt, it still may look bad to a jury, should someone be brought up on state level or civil charges.

See: Washington Post
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:15 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
There was a case (Burdick v. United States) which people think makes that insinuation, but that was more a case of "can you reject a pardon" rather than "does it imply guilt".

Yep. That's all I'm aware of too.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:17 AM   #91
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can’t think of a reason why he wouldn’t. toothless Mike pence warning him not to
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:02 AM   #92
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Trump worrying about how it would affect a civil case seems wildly optimistic. For a whole bunch of reasons the chances of him coming out of this with any assets that aren't judgement proof and/or totally hidden are slim and none.

Once the banks cut him off, he might struggle to pay his lawyers, were he willing to find someone to take his money. If those election lawsuits are any indication the people willing to help him are so bad that default would be the smarter choice. I mean, assuming his attorneys don't default him by accident by accidently filing their grocery list instead of an answer.
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:04 AM   #93
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I'm also wondering how many years Trump is thinking he has left.

I really do wonder what consequences he's worrying about at this point.
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:29 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm also wondering how many years Trump is thinking he has left.

I really do wonder what consequences he's worrying about at this point.
Interesting question, does he comprehend his own mortality or not.
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:33 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Interesting question, does he comprehend his own mortality or not.
No chance. Especially after he got COVID and was fine. He's a walking survival fallacy.

Consequences are not his thing. Which is why he's flying into a rage over having his toys taken away instead of realizing that he should be more worried about being sent to his room.
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:34 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
Trump worrying about how it would affect a civil case seems wildly optimistic. For a whole bunch of reasons the chances of him coming out of this with any assets that aren't judgement proof and/or totally hidden are slim and none.
WE might recognize that his financial empire will be harmed. But with Trump's massive ego, he might still believe that he'll still come out of this with his wealth intact.
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Old 13th January 2021, 12:14 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'm just wondering why Trump hasn't pardoned his kids yet.
He's insisting they pay him for it.
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Old 17th January 2021, 06:00 PM   #98
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Lawyers, including Giuliani, are charging tremendous fees for securing tRump pardons*

* heard on NPR on the way home from the grocery store.
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Old 17th January 2021, 06:16 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
He's insisting they pay him for it.
Originally Posted by sarge View Post
Lawyers, including Giuliani, are charging tremendous fees for securing tRump pardons*

* heard on NPR on the way home from the grocery store.
If I had $2 Million, I could get a pardon from Trump. If I did anything that needed a pardon. And if I had $2 Million.
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Old 17th January 2021, 09:27 PM   #100
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Trump to issue around 100 pardons and commutations Tuesday, sources say

Well... we'll see what happens.
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Old 20th January 2021, 04:52 AM   #101
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I was a little surprised that the poll results strongly favoured a self pardon.
However the second impeachment is the difference, while there are proceedings underway it seems a self pardon is impossible.
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Old 20th January 2021, 05:21 AM   #102
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No. Benefitted from voting late, but reporting is out there that is suggesting that Trump sees a self-pardon as risky, as it might provoke squishy Republicans into convicting at an impeachment hearing.

4.5 hrs left, no self-pardon yet.
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:19 AM   #103
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I voted yes, but I think I was wrong.

Unless he really is waiting until the very end.

I don't think he can secretly pardon himself. Can he?
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Old 20th January 2021, 06:44 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
No. Benefitted from voting late, but reporting is out there that is suggesting that Trump sees a self-pardon as risky, as it might provoke squishy Republicans into convicting at an impeachment hearing.

4.5 hrs left, no self-pardon yet.
I'd imagine the bigger danger than impeachment would be that federal criminal charges are just a small part of his legal trouble. His best bet to stay out of jail is that there is Trump fatigue once the proceedings get stretched out enough and it becomes a big enough headache so deals are struck that leave him not in jail and living on some sort of stipend.

If he self-pardoned it would substantially increase the will to see him convicted and punished in state court.
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