White House Survivor - Page 68

Segnosaur · 11th January 2021, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Sherkeu

They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!).

Why would Biden want to hire them?

Most of them were either incompetent, or totally unsuited to their job. Its doubtful they would have any information of value to pass on (at least nothing that wouldn't have bee passed on during regular transition activities.)

And why trust them? Most of them were quite happy being Trump bootlickers. I certainly wouldn't trust any of them to give honest answers, because then they would have to own up to their own submissiveness to Trump.

Mader Levap · 12th January 2021, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Sherkeu

They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!).

Why anyone would want trumpistas in Biden administration?

bruto · 12th January 2021, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Sherkeu

They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!).

I think that ship has sailed. There have been plenty of situations where such things might happen - hackers rehired for security, the authors of financial disasters hired to undo them, and so forth, but at this point I think they've stayed with Trump too long, they're too conspicuously associated with him to get away with any role in the world their leader has so openly tried to destroy. At this point I suspect they're just hoping they might still be employable somewhere.

ponderingturtle · 12th January 2021, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf is stepping down.

But he was ruled illegal by the courts, can you step down from a job you legally do not have?

Craig4 · 12th January 2021, 08:35 PM

Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee".

Firestone · 13th January 2021, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

But he was ruled illegal by the courts, can you step down from a job you legally do not have?

Jim_MDP · 13th January 2021, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee".

Ben Carson.
I hated T handing him a $2 billion chunk of HUD. But he kept his head down (that I noticed) and let the career staff show him the way.
I think... any major cock-ups from his area?

Eta: Sorry, I think the $2B was a NY slice T assigned to an ex-party planner donor. IIRC.

Segnosaur · 13th January 2021, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP

Quote:

Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee".

Ben Carson.
I hated T handing him a $2 billion chunk of HUD. But he kept his head down (that I noticed) and let the career staff show him the way.
I think... any major cock-ups from his area?

Biggest screw-up may have been Carson overspending on his office redecoration.

There have been a few other Trump cabinet members who made it all the way through...

Mnuchin (Treasury) - known for misuse of government jets
Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings
Purdue (Agriculture) - Under him, the department hired multiple Trump campaign workers who had no agriculture experience
Lighthizer (trade) - A 'trade representative' who favors tariffs

Beelzebuddy · 13th January 2021, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings

Eh. So do I. No matter how interesting I might find a subject to be, there's always some blowhard willing to go on about it at length to hear the sound of their own voice, and it puts me down faster than a glass of warm milk. Anything you need to say that can't be said in fifteen minutes should be written down instead.

Then again I'm not the head of a major government agency.

Segnosaur · 13th January 2021, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Quote:

Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings

Eh. So do I. No matter how interesting I might find a subject to be, there's always some blowhard willing to go on about it at length to hear the sound of their own voice, and it puts me down faster than a glass of warm milk. Anything you need to say that can't be said in fifteen minutes should be written down instead.

Then again I'm not the head of a major government agency.

Yeah but he also may have been involved with insider trading, stealing from his business partners, etc.

And in office, he also questioned why people would visit food banks instead of taking out personal loans.

Armitage72 · 13th January 2021, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

And in office, he also questioned why people would visit food banks instead of taking out personal loans.

Continuing the tradition of Mitt Romney, who told college students that they can start a business by borrowing money from their parents.

Firestone · 13th January 2021, 02:48 PM

Hope Hicks's last day at the White House was yesterday.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/polit...iot/index.html

SuburbanTurkey · 14th January 2021, 05:40 AM

Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives.

The Don · 14th January 2021, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives.

You could make an argument that it's worse than not quitting at all. At least the people still in the bunker with President Trump have the courage of their (misplaced) convictions.

SuburbanTurkey · 14th January 2021, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

You could make an argument that it's worse than not quitting at all. At least the people still in the bunker with President Trump have the courage of their (misplaced) convictions.

The smart move is to stay.

I really doubt they're going to get any credibility back by quitting now. The CHUDs are only going to see you as a traitor for abandoning the God-King during his time of need. Sticking to Trump now at least leaves them with love from the fringe wing of MAGA dead-enders.

Bailing on Trump now just leaves these people with no friends anywhere. Or perhaps I'm naïve. Centrist libs really do love rehabilitating reprehensible right wingers.

d4m10n · 14th January 2021, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Bailing on Trump now just leaves these people with no friends anywhere. Or perhaps I'm naïve. Centrist libs really do love rehabilitating reprehensible right wingers.

We do love a good redemption story.

Crossbow · 14th January 2021, 06:38 AM

In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him.

Once again, it has been clearly demonstrated that Trump is a petty, lying, worthless POS who will turn on anyone, and everyone, who does not fully support him.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...032513094.html

Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work

President Donald Trump is reportedly taking out his frustrations on his personal attorney and longtime friend, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

And he’s doing it in the classic Trump fashion: by refusing to pay him.

...

Citing two unnamed officials, the newspaper said Trump has not only refused to pay Giuliani’s legal fees but has told aides that all reimbursement requests for travel and other expenses need to go through him.

...

dudalb · 14th January 2021, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him.

Once again, it has been clearly demonstrated that Trump is a petty, lying, worthless POS who will turn on anyone, and everyone, who does not fully support him.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...032513094.html

Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work

President Donald Trump is reportedly taking out his frustrations on his personal attorney and longtime friend, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

And he’s doing it in the classic Trump fashion: by refusing to pay him.

...

Citing two unnamed officials, the newspaper said Trump has not only refused to pay Giuliani’s legal fees but has told aides that all reimbursement requests for travel and other expenses need to go through him.

...

I fully expected this. Trump has a long history of stiffing his lawyers. That is why he can't hire first class lawyers.

Puppycow · 14th January 2021, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him.

A smart lawyer would get paid in advance.

d4m10n · 14th January 2021, 06:53 AM

To be fair, Rudy didn't come through on the whole Bidengate thing.

Darat · 14th January 2021, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

A smart lawyer would get paid in advance.

No a smart lawyer wouldn’t work for Trump... a slightly brighter lawyer would have got paid up front...

Crossbow · 14th January 2021, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

A smart lawyer would get paid in advance.

Like all Trump lackeys, Giuliani has an illusion of knowledge instead of having actual knowledge.

After all, Trump has a very long and well very established history of not paying people who do work for him. And yet, in spite of such glaring facts, for some reason Giuliani believed that such a thing would never happen to him.

Puppycow · 14th January 2021, 07:12 AM

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1349558089964347398

Quote:

Trump is going to betray each and every one of the lunatics and thugs and lowlifes who have supported him and it’s going to be like grinding up pure joy and snorting it off of Aphrodite’s ass

Puppycow · 14th January 2021, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

To be fair, Rudy didn't come through on the whole Bidengate thing.

And he didn't overturn the election either. So why should he get paid if Trump doesn't get to remain president?

SuburbanTurkey · 14th January 2021, 07:35 AM

I doubt Rudy not getting paid by Trump is really that big of a deal for him.

Rudy has other clients, and his proximity to Trump and the power of the Presidency must be a huge selling point. Working for Trump for free is a loss leader.

Anyone in federal prison right now who wants to get a pardon is probably willing to let Rudy name his price.

d4m10n · 14th January 2021, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Anyone in federal prison right now who wants to get a pardon is probably willing to let Rudy name his price.

For the next seven days?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

SuburbanTurkey · 14th January 2021, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

For the next seven days?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

It only takes a moment. I imagine Trump will be issuing many more pardons before the 20th.

ponderingturtle · 14th January 2021, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I doubt Rudy not getting paid by Trump is really that big of a deal for him.

Rudy has other clients, and his proximity to Trump and the power of the Presidency must be a huge selling point. Working for Trump for free is a loss leader.

Anyone in federal prison right now who wants to get a pardon is probably willing to let Rudy name his price.

Does he? He got fired from the law firm he was working for when he publicly advocated the mishandling of client money. He was also working for Trump for free for a while to spite his wife while going through a divorce.

Segnosaur · 14th January 2021, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I doubt Rudy not getting paid by Trump is really that big of a deal for him.

Rudy has other clients, and his proximity to Trump and the power of the Presidency must be a huge selling point. Working for Trump for free is a loss leader.

Yeah but that suggests Rudy was at least partially competent.

Its one thing to put up a decent defense for your client and lose, its another thing to lose, after leaving messages on the wrong phone number, having multiple embarrassments (leaking brains, Borat), and possibly being on the wrong side of charges related to terrorism.

If I am a potential client, I would avoid Rudy like the plague, regardless of his association with "the president".

SuburbanTurkey · 14th January 2021, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Yeah but that suggests Rudy was at least partially competent.

Its one thing to put up a decent defense for your client and lose, its another thing to lose, after leaving messages on the wrong phone number, having multiple embarrassments (leaking brains, Borat), and possibly being on the wrong side of charges related to terrorism.

If I am a potential client, I would avoid Rudy like the plague, regardless of his association with "the president".

It depends on what you want. Nobody should hire Rudy for actual legal work.

If you want a pardon from Trump, he's probably one of the few people in a position to advocate your case (for a fee) to Trump.

Perhaps that is no longer the case, but that seems to have been the situation for a while now.

Segnosaur · 14th January 2021, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

It depends on what you want. Nobody should hire Rudy for actual legal work.

If you want a pardon from Trump, he's probably one of the few people in a position to advocate your case (for a fee) to Trump.

It seems to me like a big cheque to the Trump2024 re-election campaign would probably be more effective. Or maybe sign up for a membership at Mar a Lago.

Meadmaker · 14th January 2021, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Yeah but that suggests Rudy was at least partially competent.

Its one thing to put up a decent defense for your client and lose, its another thing to lose, after leaving messages on the wrong phone number, having multiple embarrassments (leaking brains, Borat), and possibly being on the wrong side of charges related to terrorism.

If I am a potential client, I would avoid Rudy like the plague, regardless of his association with "the president".

I think his reputation is irredeemably damaged by his activities over the last three months. This guy was highly respected as mayor, and a genuine contender for president, and now he's a joke. I don't think he can ever recover.

Not that he's going to end up sleeping under a bridge or anything. I'm sure he has enough money cached away to live out his days comfortably, but his reputation is shot.

Norman Alexander · 14th January 2021, 11:49 AM

I wonder...

If Rudi isn't going to get paid by Trump after all, and he is as big a slimeball as his (former?) boss and would turn on him in an instant, how much would a book deal cost with Rudi to spill all the inside beans as evidence to avoid going to jail? Probably not too much.

ponderingturtle · 14th January 2021, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I think his reputation is irredeemably damaged by his activities over the last three months. This guy was highly respected as mayor, and a genuine contender for president, and now he's a joke. I don't think he can ever recover.

More than his close associations with ukranian and russian mobsters? Remember Rudy needs his pardon too.

Firestone · 15th January 2021, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives.

Case in point, in the Washington Post today: For those who quit Trump after riot, critics say it’s too little — and four years too late

Quote:

Sarah Matthews, a 25-year-old White House spokeswoman, said she watched the violent images unfolding at the Capitol last Wednesday with horror.

Before joining the Trump campaign, and later the White House, she had worked in Congress, and said that “seeing people I know, who were scared for their lives, just shook me to my core.”

...

As night fell and the Secret Service ushered most staffers home in advance of the District’s 6 p.m. curfew, Matthews grabbed her blazer and the half-dozen pairs of high heels stored under her desk, and put them in her bag. She knew she wouldn’t be returning.

“I knew I could no longer serve in the role effectively, and I couldn’t walk into the building the following day and act like everything was fine, because it was indefensible,” said Matthews, who sent out her resignation letter later that evening.

...

“I chose to work in the Trump administration because I believed in his agenda, I believed in the policies we enacted, I believed in a lot of what we accomplished,” Matthews continued, “but what I saw take place Wednesday overshadowed all the good we’ve done these past four years.”

(bolding mine)

It's people she knows being scared for their lives that suddenly made her see the light.
All the Trump atrocities affected "the others", that was fine, that was defensible, that was "all the good we've done."

jimbob · 18th January 2021, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I fully expected this. Trump has a long history of stiffing his lawyers. That is why he can't hire first class lawyers.

I'm quite miffed, because I swear I posted several weeks ago that I didn't know where to put my misplaced admiration. To Giuliani for having the chutzpah to charge $20k/day for his quality of legal advice, or Trump for letting convincing Giuliani that he'd get paid.

Matthew Ellard · 18th January 2021, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

No a smart lawyer wouldn’t work for Trump... a slightly brighter lawyer would have got paid up front...

A proper solicitor would have a Client Service Agreement detailing Scope, fee or time charge, payment schedule and what disbursements are recoverable.

Perhaps such a contract exists? I don't know.

If so, I openly wonder what if the expressed (written) Scope of Services provided by Giuliani may be the problem. If the services agreement scope was "investigate if evidence exists that there was election fraud", however it could be proved, the real intent was "use courts to delay acceptance of defeat to allow further $207 million donation raising by Trump PAC", then that may break Client-Solicitor privileged communications, as an illegal act.

Trump should negotiate and settle with Giuliani.

RecoveringYuppy · 18th January 2021, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard

Trump should negotiate and settle with Giuliani.

You mean free pardon?

Matthew Ellard · 18th January 2021, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

You mean free pardon?

I am way out of my depth, but pardoning Giuliani for a specific crime would seem to probably implicate Trump at the same time, when the criminal act is defined in the pardon.

Craig4 · 19th January 2021, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Case in point, in the Washington Post today: For those who quit Trump after riot, critics say it’s too little — and four years too late

(bolding mine)

It's people she knows being scared for their lives that suddenly made her see the light.
All the Trump atrocities affected "the others", that was fine, that was defensible, that was "all the good we've done."

I'd be more impressed if she quit after kids in cages. I wonder if she would have quit if she didn't know anyone who worked on The Hill.

11th January 2021, 07:43 PM	#2681
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,122	Originally Posted by Sherkeu They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!). Why would Biden want to hire them? Most of them were either incompetent, or totally unsuited to their job. Its doubtful they would have any information of value to pass on (at least nothing that wouldn't have bee passed on during regular transition activities.) And why trust them? Most of them were quite happy being Trump bootlickers. I certainly wouldn't trust any of them to give honest answers, because then they would have to own up to their own submissiveness to Trump.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

12th January 2021, 06:29 AM	#2682
Mader Levap Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,576	Originally Posted by Sherkeu They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!). Why anyone would want trumpistas in Biden administration?
	__________________ Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.

12th January 2021, 07:40 AM	#2683
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 27,752	Originally Posted by Sherkeu They are out of a job soon anyway, but as a matter of transition, can they now be hired as consultants by the Biden team? Might be best of both worlds at this time. They can give honest info without intrusions of "the boss" and still get paid (not that most of them need it!). I think that ship has sailed. There have been plenty of situations where such things might happen - hackers rehired for security, the authors of financial disasters hired to undo them, and so forth, but at this point I think they've stayed with Trump too long, they're too conspicuously associated with him to get away with any role in the world their leader has so openly tried to destroy. At this point I suspect they're just hoping they might still be employable somewhere.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

12th January 2021, 12:26 PM	#2684
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by Firestone Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf is stepping down. But he was ruled illegal by the courts, can you step down from a job you legally do not have?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

13th January 2021, 12:14 AM	#2686
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,997	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle But he was ruled illegal by the courts, can you step down from a job you legally do not have?
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

12th January 2021, 08:35 PM	#2685
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,581	Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee".

13th January 2021, 12:23 AM	#2687
Jim_MDP Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: N.Cal/S.Or Posts: 8,024	Originally Posted by Craig4 Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee". Ben Carson. I hated T handing him a $2 billion chunk of HUD. But he kept his head down (that I noticed) and let the career staff show him the way. I think... any major cock-ups from his area? Eta: Sorry, I think the $2B was a NY slice T assigned to an ex-party planner donor. IIRC.
	__________________ ---------------------- Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything. "Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust. "Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

13th January 2021, 12:47 AM	#2688
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,122	Originally Posted by Jim_MDP Quote: Are they are more that could be survivors? I mean, if you're still in the White House, you're the orchestra on the Titanic playing, "Nearer my God to Thee". Ben Carson. I hated T handing him a $2 billion chunk of HUD. But he kept his head down (that I noticed) and let the career staff show him the way. I think... any major cock-ups from his area? Biggest screw-up may have been Carson overspending on his office redecoration. There have been a few other Trump cabinet members who made it all the way through... Mnuchin (Treasury) - known for misuse of government jets Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings Purdue (Agriculture) - Under him, the department hired multiple Trump campaign workers who had no agriculture experience Lighthizer (trade) - A 'trade representative' who favors tariffs
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

13th January 2021, 01:13 PM	#2689
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,071	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings Eh. So do I. No matter how interesting I might find a subject to be, there's always some blowhard willing to go on about it at length to hear the sound of their own voice, and it puts me down faster than a glass of warm milk. Anything you need to say that can't be said in fifteen minutes should be written down instead. Then again I'm not the head of a major government agency.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,071

13th January 2021, 01:21 PM	#2690
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,122	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy Quote: Ross (Commerce) - Fell asleep during meetings Eh. So do I. No matter how interesting I might find a subject to be, there's always some blowhard willing to go on about it at length to hear the sound of their own voice, and it puts me down faster than a glass of warm milk. Anything you need to say that can't be said in fifteen minutes should be written down instead. Then again I'm not the head of a major government agency. Yeah but he also may have been involved with insider trading, stealing from his business partners, etc. And in office, he also questioned why people would visit food banks instead of taking out personal loans.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

13th January 2021, 01:55 PM	#2691
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,261	Originally Posted by Segnosaur And in office, he also questioned why people would visit food banks instead of taking out personal loans. Continuing the tradition of Mitt Romney, who told college students that they can start a business by borrowing money from their parents.

13th January 2021, 02:48 PM	#2692
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,997	Hope Hicks's last day at the White House was yesterday. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/polit...iot/index.html
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan Last edited by Firestone; 13th January 2021 at 02:49 PM.

14th January 2021, 05:40 AM	#2693
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

14th January 2021, 05:44 AM	#2694
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,360	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives. You could make an argument that it's worse than not quitting at all. At least the people still in the bunker with President Trump have the courage of their (misplaced) convictions.

14th January 2021, 06:01 AM	#2695
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by The Don You could make an argument that it's worse than not quitting at all. At least the people still in the bunker with President Trump have the courage of their (misplaced) convictions. The smart move is to stay. I really doubt they're going to get any credibility back by quitting now. The CHUDs are only going to see you as a traitor for abandoning the God-King during his time of need. Sticking to Trump now at least leaves them with love from the fringe wing of MAGA dead-enders. Bailing on Trump now just leaves these people with no friends anywhere. Or perhaps I'm naïve. Centrist libs really do love rehabilitating reprehensible right wingers.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

14th January 2021, 06:26 AM	#2696
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,410	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Bailing on Trump now just leaves these people with no friends anywhere. Or perhaps I'm naïve. Centrist libs really do love rehabilitating reprehensible right wingers. We do love a good redemption story.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

14th January 2021, 06:38 AM	#2697
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 13,312	In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him. Once again, it has been clearly demonstrated that Trump is a petty, lying, worthless POS who will turn on anyone, and everyone, who does not fully support him. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...032513094.html Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work President Donald Trump is reportedly taking out his frustrations on his personal attorney and longtime friend, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. And he’s doing it in the classic Trump fashion: by refusing to pay him. ... Citing two unnamed officials, the newspaper said Trump has not only refused to pay Giuliani’s legal fees but has told aides that all reimbursement requests for travel and other expenses need to go through him. ...
	__________________ I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency. On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

14th January 2021, 06:42 AM	#2698
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Originally Posted by Crossbow In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him. Once again, it has been clearly demonstrated that Trump is a petty, lying, worthless POS who will turn on anyone, and everyone, who does not fully support him. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump...032513094.html Report: 'Isolated And Angry' Trump Refuses To Pay Rudy Giuliani For Legal Work President Donald Trump is reportedly taking out his frustrations on his personal attorney and longtime friend, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. And he’s doing it in the classic Trump fashion: by refusing to pay him. ... Citing two unnamed officials, the newspaper said Trump has not only refused to pay Giuliani’s legal fees but has told aides that all reimbursement requests for travel and other expenses need to go through him. ... I fully expected this. Trump has a long history of stiffing his lawyers. That is why he can't hire first class lawyers.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

14th January 2021, 06:50 AM	#2699
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,744	Originally Posted by Crossbow In true Trump fashion, Trump has now turned on his biggest defender, Rudy Giuliani, by refusing to pay him. A smart lawyer would get paid in advance.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

14th January 2021, 06:53 AM	#2700
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,410	To be fair, Rudy didn't come through on the whole Bidengate thing.
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

14th January 2021, 07:12 AM	#2701
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,062	Originally Posted by Puppycow A smart lawyer would get paid in advance. No a smart lawyer wouldn’t work for Trump... a slightly brighter lawyer would have got paid up front...
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

14th January 2021, 07:12 AM	#2702
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 13,312	Originally Posted by Puppycow A smart lawyer would get paid in advance. Like all Trump lackeys, Giuliani has an illusion of knowledge instead of having actual knowledge. After all, Trump has a very long and well very established history of not paying people who do work for him. And yet, in spite of such glaring facts, for some reason Giuliani believed that such a thing would never happen to him.
	__________________ I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency. On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

14th January 2021, 07:12 AM	#2703
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,744	https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1349558089964347398 Quote: Trump is going to betray each and every one of the lunatics and thugs and lowlifes who have supported him and it’s going to be like grinding up pure joy and snorting it off of Aphrodite’s ass
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

14th January 2021, 07:15 AM	#2704
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,744	Originally Posted by d4m10n To be fair, Rudy didn't come through on the whole Bidengate thing. And he didn't overturn the election either. So why should he get paid if Trump doesn't get to remain president?
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

14th January 2021, 07:35 AM	#2705
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	I doubt Rudy not getting paid by Trump is really that big of a deal for him. Rudy has other clients, and his proximity to Trump and the power of the Presidency must be a huge selling point. Working for Trump for free is a loss leader. Anyone in federal prison right now who wants to get a pardon is probably willing to let Rudy name his price.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

14th January 2021, 09:34 AM	#2706
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,410	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Anyone in federal prison right now who wants to get a pardon is probably willing to let Rudy name his price. For the next seven days? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

14th January 2021, 09:38 AM	#2707
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by d4m10n For the next seven days? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk It only takes a moment. I imagine Trump will be issuing many more pardons before the 20th.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

14th January 2021, 09:40 AM	#2708
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I doubt Rudy not getting paid by Trump is really that big of a deal for him. Rudy has other clients, and his proximity to Trump and the power of the Presidency must be a huge selling point. Working for Trump for free is a loss leader. Anyone in federal prison right now who wants to get a pardon is probably willing to let Rudy name his price. Does he? He got fired from the law firm he was working for when he publicly advocated the mishandling of client money. He was also working for Trump for free for a while to spite his wife while going through a divorce.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

14th January 2021, 10:35 AM	#2709
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,122	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I doubt Rudy not getting paid by Trump is really that big of a deal for him. Rudy has other clients, and his proximity to Trump and the power of the Presidency must be a huge selling point. Working for Trump for free is a loss leader. Yeah but that suggests Rudy was at least partially competent. Its one thing to put up a decent defense for your client and lose, its another thing to lose, after leaving messages on the wrong phone number, having multiple embarrassments (leaking brains, Borat), and possibly being on the wrong side of charges related to terrorism. If I am a potential client, I would avoid Rudy like the plague, regardless of his association with "the president".
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

14th January 2021, 10:50 AM	#2710
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Yeah but that suggests Rudy was at least partially competent. Its one thing to put up a decent defense for your client and lose, its another thing to lose, after leaving messages on the wrong phone number, having multiple embarrassments (leaking brains, Borat), and possibly being on the wrong side of charges related to terrorism. If I am a potential client, I would avoid Rudy like the plague, regardless of his association with "the president". It depends on what you want. Nobody should hire Rudy for actual legal work. If you want a pardon from Trump, he's probably one of the few people in a position to advocate your case (for a fee) to Trump. Perhaps that is no longer the case, but that seems to have been the situation for a while now.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

14th January 2021, 10:53 AM	#2711
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,122	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey It depends on what you want. Nobody should hire Rudy for actual legal work. If you want a pardon from Trump, he's probably one of the few people in a position to advocate your case (for a fee) to Trump. It seems to me like a big cheque to the Trump2024 re-election campaign would probably be more effective. Or maybe sign up for a membership at Mar a Lago.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

14th January 2021, 10:56 AM	#2712
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,275	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Yeah but that suggests Rudy was at least partially competent. Its one thing to put up a decent defense for your client and lose, its another thing to lose, after leaving messages on the wrong phone number, having multiple embarrassments (leaking brains, Borat), and possibly being on the wrong side of charges related to terrorism. If I am a potential client, I would avoid Rudy like the plague, regardless of his association with "the president". I think his reputation is irredeemably damaged by his activities over the last three months. This guy was highly respected as mayor, and a genuine contender for president, and now he's a joke. I don't think he can ever recover. Not that he's going to end up sleeping under a bridge or anything. I'm sure he has enough money cached away to live out his days comfortably, but his reputation is shot.
	__________________ Yes, yes. I know you're right, but would it hurt you to actually provide some information?

14th January 2021, 11:49 AM	#2713
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,791	I wonder... If Rudi isn't going to get paid by Trump after all, and he is as big a slimeball as his (former?) boss and would turn on him in an instant, how much would a book deal cost with Rudi to spill all the inside beans as evidence to avoid going to jail? Probably not too much.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

14th January 2021, 12:07 PM	#2714
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I think his reputation is irredeemably damaged by his activities over the last three months. This guy was highly respected as mayor, and a genuine contender for president, and now he's a joke. I don't think he can ever recover. More than his close associations with ukranian and russian mobsters? Remember Rudy needs his pardon too.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

15th January 2021, 06:51 AM	#2715
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,997	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Zero credit for these people quitting at the 11th hour. I hope this follows them for the rest of their lives. Case in point, in the Washington Post today: For those who quit Trump after riot, critics say it’s too little — and four years too late Quote: Sarah Matthews, a 25-year-old White House spokeswoman, said she watched the violent images unfolding at the Capitol last Wednesday with horror. Before joining the Trump campaign, and later the White House, she had worked in Congress, and said that “seeing people I know, who were scared for their lives, just shook me to my core.” ... As night fell and the Secret Service ushered most staffers home in advance of the District’s 6 p.m. curfew, Matthews grabbed her blazer and the half-dozen pairs of high heels stored under her desk, and put them in her bag. She knew she wouldn’t be returning. “I knew I could no longer serve in the role effectively, and I couldn’t walk into the building the following day and act like everything was fine, because it was indefensible,” said Matthews, who sent out her resignation letter later that evening. ... “I chose to work in the Trump administration because I believed in his agenda, I believed in the policies we enacted, I believed in a lot of what we accomplished,” Matthews continued, “but what I saw take place Wednesday overshadowed all the good we’ve done these past four years.” (bolding mine) It's people she knows being scared for their lives that suddenly made her see the light. All the Trump atrocities affected "the others", that was fine, that was defensible, that was "all the good we've done."
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan Last edited by Firestone; 15th January 2021 at 06:57 AM.