The Biden Presidency

[Lrrr]

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

That's great news. How will this decision affect Alberta's economy due to the pending unemployment of Keystone workers? Not much?

I don't know the number, but I suspect the number of Keystone workers is fairly small. The bigger picture is the overall economy of the province, which will definitely take a hit. Probably not as big a hit as the price of oil seen in the last few years but still a hit. The current government refuses to diversify the economy away from fossil fuels, which I believe is a mistake. Relying completely on oil and coal is not viable long term unless Alberta can control prices (hint: it cannot).

[Paul2]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

If Biden comes up with something to address this issue in the coming weeks/months, I will concede I was premature in this criticism.

I very much doubt this is the case.

Despite all the moral outrage during the Trump years, immigration remains a tricky and politically difficult issue. I very much suspect that Biden would rather not wade into the issue and just allow the status quo to continue, more or less, and just hope that it remains out of sight and mind.

Trump made it a hot button issue by being so overtly racist and brutal about it. Without the PR stunts, it can return to being a back burner issue.

The Democrats are very much like the Republicans screeching about Obamacare when it comes to immigration. They talk a big game when they aren't in power, but have no ideas how to deal with the problem once they are in power.

I've heard more than one from the media that Biden wants a new immigration plan/system. He's planning on producing some proposal. It's going to be difficult, sure.

[Checkmite]

Yesterday after taking office, Biden requested the resignation of three Trump appointees.

The three ousted appointees are Michael Pack, head of the US Agency for Global Media, who sought to transform the Voice of America into a propaganda outlet and fired journalists who refused to comply; Kathleen Kraninger, installed director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, who rescinded protections against predatory payday lenders and abusive debt collectors; and Peter Robb, general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board, who was aggressively anti-union and actively working on restructuring the NLRB in ways that would hinder the agency from functioning effectively.

Of the three only Peter Robb refused to resign on request, and so Biden fired him immediately.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Yesterday after taking office, Biden requested the resignation of three Trump appointees.

The three ousted appointees are Michael Pack, head of the US Agency for Global Media, who sought to transform the Voice of America into a propaganda outlet and fired journalists who refused to comply; Kathleen Kraninger, installed director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, who rescinded protections against predatory payday lenders and abusive debt collectors; and Peter Robb, general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board, who was aggressively anti-union and actively working on restructuring the NLRB in ways that would hinder the agency from functioning effectively.

Of the three only Peter Robb refused to resign on request, and so Biden fired him immediately.

Peter Robb, the NLRB attorney that tried to make it illegal for striking workers to use "Scabby the Rat". Scabby 1, Robb 0.

https://twitter.com/banditelli/statu...96772265447426

Very pleased to hear this. All this talk of "unity" made me worry that these weasels were going to keep their jobs. Glad that Biden is taking out the Trump trash.

[timhau]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Yesterday after taking office, Biden requested the resignation of three Trump appointees.

The three ousted appointees are Michael Pack, head of the US Agency for Global Media, who sought to transform the Voice of America into a propaganda outlet and fired journalists who refused to comply; Kathleen Kraninger, installed director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, who rescinded protections against predatory payday lenders and abusive debt collectors; and Peter Robb, general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board, who was aggressively anti-union and actively working on restructuring the NLRB in ways that would hinder the agency from functioning effectively.

Of the three only Peter Robb refused to resign on request, and so Biden fired him immediately.

"I can't quit, you fire me!"

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by Steve

So, an experienced liar then. Why not just say so.

Not so much as a liar, but just no principles.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Not so much as a liar, but just no principles.

That's why I have inherent distrust of "debaters" especially people who ever did it in college as an extracurricular or otherwise got deep into the, for lack of a better term, "debating fandom."

Scratch one and nine times out of ten and you'll find someone who has talked themselves into that mindset where if you can argue a falsehood a specific way, it magically turns into a truth and vice-versa.

Like seriously people "I can take something that isn't even true and that I don't even believe and argue it so good you won't know the difference" ISN'T A SKILL YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF.

[Mader Levap]

Originally Posted by SezMe

Horseshoe theory says that extremists on opposite sides have more in common with each other than with center. For example farleft- and farrightwing extremists, for all their esoteric ideological differences, are same in that they support violence, authoritarian government and in general are loony nutjobs.

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

That's why I have inherent distrust of "debaters" especially people who ever did it in college as an extracurricular or otherwise got deep into the, for lack of a better term, "debating fandom."

Scratch one and nine times out of ten and you'll find someone who has talked themselves into that mindset where if you can argue a falsehood a specific way, it magically turns into a truth and vice-versa.

Like seriously people "I can take something that isn't even true and that I don't even believe and argue it so good you won't know the difference" ISN'T A SKILL YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF.

Yes, that is all true, but what matters to remember is that this is what Ted Cruz is.

Rhetoric, not principle. There is no reason to think he believes any of it, only that he thinks he convince others by saying it.

[JoeMorgue]

ETA: Thread moved faster than I expecting. Adding quote to clarify what point I responding to.

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

Horseshoe theory says that extremists on opposite sides have more in common with each other than with center. For example farleft- and farrightwing extremists, for all their esoteric ideological differences, are same in that they support violence, authoritarian government and in general are loony nutjobs.

I don't think it's that simple.

In modern parlance, not speaking in any form of "Well technically, ackshually, according to Hoyle" way I think a lot of what we are talking about today when we are talking about "extremism" is conflating passion in how strongly you hold your beliefs with how far from some (often completely arbitrary) norm the opinion is.

If our hypothetical range of opinions can be charged on a scale of 1 to 10 with 5 being some statistical average is the person who strongly, with all his heart, will ride and die for a belief n 5 an extremist over someone who believes 1 or 10 but isn't that ready to die for the cause?

Is the man who bombs a train station because he thinks 2+2=4.000000000001 more or less of an extremist then someone who just talks your ear off about how he thinks 2+2=325?

How extreme the position is in how far it is from societal norms and how extreme the position is based on how seriously you take it are different vectors.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

So we can no longer question Biden's strategy without being nihilists?

Keeping schools open, keeping shops open, and not giving people cash aid so they can stay home from work is condemning people to die.

Other countries have shown us that it's possible to greatly reduce the spread of covid through these measures. Why isn't Biden doing that?

Are you ok with covid ripping through the country unchecked because you would prefer nobody criticize Biden?

You are not questioning his strategy here. you are questioning his specific actions on day one of his presidency. His strategy is to deal quickly with the immigration actions - children in cages - that you abhor. His strategy re COVID 19 will also be quickly implemented. Are you of a mind that he has to do literally everything you see as priorities on day one?

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by Steve

You are not questioning his strategy here. you are questioning his specific actions on day one of his presidency. His strategy is to deal quickly with the immigration actions - children in cages - that you abhor. His strategy re COVID 19 will also be quickly implemented. Are you of a mind that he has to do literally everything you see as priorities on day one?

I wish I shared Biden's optimism to reopen schools in 100 days. Unless he has a plan to radically turn around the infection rates in this country, it sounds a lot like he's setting up schools to be super spreader centers.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

So we can no longer question Biden's strategy without being nihilists?

No. Nobody is saying that.

We're saying you can't. Nothing he does will ever make you happy, you couldn't make that any clearer without carrying a sign that says that.

We're barely a day into his administration, he's already signed well over a dozen Executive Orders, his Congress hasn't even gone to session yet I think, and you're already doing the "Oh seeeeeeeeeeee! I was right! He's part of the same system!" rant you all but announced you were going to do no matter how his administration worked out.

I don't like making this comparison but you are a Trumper with the nouns swapped out. It's the exact same toxic routine.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Not so much as a liar, but just no principles.

"By rejoining the Paris Climate Agreement, President Biden indicates he’s more interested in the views of the citizens of Paris than in the jobs of the citizens of Pittsburgh."

If he says this knowing it is not true then it is a lie, pure and simple. It has nothing to do with principles or with debate tactics. He is saying it to ignorant Americans who will believe him, and he knows this. He is a liar.

[JoeMorgue]

I think the idea that the Right specifically says certains outrageously obviously wrong/inappropriate things as some sort of intentional affect is so obvious as to not be worth debating at this point.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

No. Nobody is saying that.

We're saying you can't. Nothing he does will ever make you happy, you couldn't make that any clearer without carrying a sign that says that.

We're barely a day into his administration, he's already signed well over a dozen Executive Orders, his Congress hasn't even gone to session yet I think, and you're already doing the "Oh seeeeeeeeeeee! I was right! He's part of the same system!" rant you all but announced you were going to do no matter how his administration worked out.

I don't like making this comparison but you are a Trumper with the nouns swapped out. It's the exact same toxic routine.

Fair enough. I'll lay my cards out plainly then.

It will be difficult for Biden to make me happy. I am deeply suspicious of his intentions and capabilities.

There are things he could do that would make me pleased with him. Take covid for example.

If Biden actually does anything substantial to radically reduce the number of covid deaths in this country, I'll be happy. Ecstatic actually, I'd consider it an unqualified success for him, and probably a good enough thing to secure a positive legacy (assuming no other disasters like starting another war or something huge).

But that's not what I expect to happen. I expect he'll do many small, easy things, like ordering a mask mandate or deferring to "science", but nothing significant enough to really drive down deaths. They'll probably be less deaths, but the US will still be outstanding on the national stage for fatalities.

When I see this "schools open in 100 days", that only reinforces my pessimism. It smacks of the strategy of returning to normalcy at all costs.

What would it really take for Biden to get covid deaths under control? Probably dramatic action that we haven't heard suggested by anyone. Declaring a national emergency, closing all non-essential business, income replacement with cash to keep people home, schools closed, shopping closed, mask enforcement, stay at home order enforcement, and so on.

I have no idea if this is even constitutionally possible. Nobody said being President was easy though.

Here's my bet, and you can hold me to it. Biden will do some smallish things, a bunch of symbolic things, and the death rates will probably go down some, but it will still be very high. This will continue until there's finally enough vaccine to end the pandemic. Biden's plan to control the spread without a vaccine will only be marginally better than Trump's.

If I'm wrong about that, I'll be happy to admit it.

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Lrrr

I don't know the number, but I suspect the number of Keystone workers is fairly small. The bigger picture is the overall economy of the province, which will definitely take a hit. Probably not as big a hit as the price of oil seen in the last few years but still a hit. The current government refuses to diversify the economy away from fossil fuels, which I believe is a mistake. Relying completely on oil and coal is not viable long term unless Alberta can control prices (hint: it cannot).

I don't think it will shock too many people here to learn that the Albertan Oil Industry is laying people off, despite having received billions in tax cuts from the Albertan government last year so as to avoid this exact problem.

Why anyone thinks that wasting more money and effort on a failing industry is beyond me.

Quote:

“In March, before COVID, the price for benchmark oil WTI was over $70. By the middle of April, the futures market, Western Canada Select, was trading at -$30 — a $100 decline in oil prices.”

That's right - for a brief moment, the cost of their oil was negative - they actually had to pay people to take their oil.

The price has improved since then, but it's still not profitable. The current price is about $32 per barrel, but:

Quote:

In their May 2019 comparison of the "cost of supply curve update" in which the Norway-based Rystad Energy—an "independent energy research and consultancy"—ranked the "worlds total recoverable liquid resources by their breakeven price", Rystad reported that the average breakeven price for oil from the oil sands was US$83 in 2019, making it the most expensive to produce, compared to all other "significant oil producing regions" in the world.[64][Notes 1] The International Energy Agency made similar comparisons.[65]

Unless they've made huge strides in reducing the costs of delivering this oil, they're losing money on every barrel they sell.

This made sense 12 years ago when the price of oil jumped to about $200 a barrel, but it's insane now.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Is the man who bombs a train station because he thinks 2+2=4.000000000001 more or less of an extremist then someone who just talks your ear off about how he thinks 2+2=325?

WTF? You mean 2+2 doesn't equal shoe polish!?

[Mader Levap]

Originally Posted by Steve

It has nothing to do with principles or with debate tactics. He is saying it to ignorant Americans who will believe him, and he knows this. He is a liar.

Lying is debate tactic.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

You never know, oil may become so overpriced it may again become economically sound to truck in oil sands for oil recovery and refining.
But I hope not.....

If that does ever happen, then it will be an added argument that the pipeline is unnecessary, won't it?

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

Lying is debate tactic.

That may be, but the sentence I quoted was a tweet, not part of a debate. It had nothing to do with debate tactics. It was a lie aimed at stupid people.

[Dr. Keith]

Originally Posted by Horatius

I don't think it will shock too many people here to learn that the Albertan Oil Industry is laying people off, despite having received billions in tax cuts from the Albertan government last year so as to avoid this exact problem.

Why anyone thinks that wasting more money and effort on a failing industry is beyond me.




That's right - for a brief moment, the cost of their oil was negative - they actually had to pay people to take their oil.

The price has improved since then, but it's still not profitable. The current price is about $32 per barrel, but:




Unless they've made huge strides in reducing the costs of delivering this oil, they're losing money on every barrel they sell.

This made sense 12 years ago when the price of oil jumped to about $200 a barrel, but it's insane now.

And this is why it is so terrible that Joe* is halting the KXL!!!!

We want Canada to go broke selling us oil. All the oil. Brilliant.



ETA: *Joe Biden, not JoeMorgue. That guy is aces and would never halt a pipeline that would allow us to bankrupt Canadia one gallon at a time.

[Tero]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I wish I shared Biden's optimism to reopen schools in 100 days. Unless he has a plan to radically turn around the infection rates in this country, it sounds a lot like he's setting up schools to be super spreader centers.

Well, the teachers and staff would be vaccinated by then. Some schools will close from time to time, as the kids will definitely spread it among themselves. But we did not test the vaccine on kids, and there are so many antivaxxers, that we are stuck vaccinating only the staff.

[Dr. Keith]

Originally Posted by Tero

Well, the teachers and staff would be vaccinated by then. Some schools will close from time to time, as the kids will definitely spread it among themselves. But we did not test the vaccine on kids, and there are so many antivaxxers, that we are stuck vaccinating only the staff.

Because the states get to pick the priority it is not a certainty that teachers and staff will be vaccinated. In our state they are not in group 1A or 1B.

ETA: Also, the vaccines take time to be effective. Even if they get vaccinated in 100 days they will not have good protection until a few weeks after the second vaccination.

[The Atheist]

Anyone with a memory will recall I was not a Biden fan.

Anyone with a heartbeat who reads the story below will be unable to not have a positive opinion on the man afterwards. (may have been posted, I haven't been following the thread.)

I knew the basics, but it's not possible to not have huge admiration for his ability to fight back after the most horrendous circumstances being thrust upon him.

Long read, but worth it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/o9n...tion-joe-biden

[Garrison]

Originally Posted by Horatius

I don't think it will shock too many people here to learn that the Albertan Oil Industry is laying people off, despite having received billions in tax cuts from the Albertan government last year so as to avoid this exact problem.

Why anyone thinks that wasting more money and effort on a failing industry is beyond me.




That's right - for a brief moment, the cost of their oil was negative - they actually had to pay people to take their oil.

The price has improved since then, but it's still not profitable. The current price is about $32 per barrel, but:




Unless they've made huge strides in reducing the costs of delivering this oil, they're losing money on every barrel they sell.

This made sense 12 years ago when the price of oil jumped to about $200 a barrel, but it's insane now.

Same goes for most fracking, it was only profitable so long as oil prices were ridiculously high. Right now we don't know how much of the change in working practices caused by Covid-19 will prove to be permanent and renewable energy costs are declining year on year. The Keystone pipeline would have been a pointless boondoggle in 2021, quite sensible of President Biden.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Tero

Well, the teachers and staff would be vaccinated by then. Some schools will close from time to time, as the kids will definitely spread it among themselves. But we did not test the vaccine on kids, and there are so many antivaxxers, that we are stuck vaccinating only the staff.

Yes, we should be opening elementary schools up ASAP. In facts its really the first thing besides healthcare that should be back to some form of normalcy. There was a story here a few weeks ago, and yeah the local press can exaggerate, but many kids have simply gone missing. They aren't getting any sort of education, and are probably just being left to their own devices. The amount of neglectful and abusive parents here is shocking. I've heard stories from social workers. Leaving small children with them all day is troubling. The benefits of them going back to school almost certainly outweigh the costs. Once teachers are vaccinated that is.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Anyone with a memory will recall I was not a Biden fan.

Anyone with a heartbeat who reads the story below will be unable to not have a positive opinion on the man afterwards. (may have been posted, I haven't been following the thread.)

I knew the basics, but it's not possible to not have huge admiration for his ability to fight back after the most horrendous circumstances being thrust upon him.

Long read, but worth it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/o9n...tion-joe-biden

I said long ago that all you had to do to understand the difference between Trump and Biden was to look at the difference between them as fathers. That was all you needed to know to see the difference between them as men.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Yes, we should be opening elementary schools up ASAP. In facts its really the first thing besides healthcare that should be back to some form of normalcy. There was a story here a few weeks ago, and yeah the local press can exaggerate, but many kids have simply gone missing. They aren't getting any sort of education, and are probably just being left to their own devices. The amount of neglectful and abusive parents here is shocking. I've heard stories from social workers. Leaving small children with them all day is troubling. The benefits of them going back to school almost certainly outweigh the costs. Once teachers are vaccinated that is.

For many children, their one or two main meals are provided by the schools, especially now with Covid. Many parents need their kids in school because they can't afford childcare. Teachers need to be top priority, along with healthcare workers, to receive vaccinations and get our kids back in school.

[Captain_Swoop]

Senator Ted Cruz tweets

@SenTedCruz
In embracing #GreenNewDeal enthusiasts and climate alarmists, President Biden is abandoning America’s blue-collar energy workers. His radical energy and environmental plans are putting millions of jobs at stake and weakening America’s energy independence.
https://houstonchronicle.com/busines...edium=referral

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Senator Ted Cruz tweets

@SenTedCruz
In embracing #GreenNewDeal enthusiasts and climate alarmists, President Biden is abandoning America’s blue-collar energy workers. His radical energy and environmental plans are putting millions of jobs at stake and weakening America’s energy independence.
https://houstonchronicle.com/busines...edium=referral

He misspelled "realists"

[Captain_Swoop]

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tweets
@RepMTG
I just filed Articles of Impeachment on President @JoeBiden.

[Captain_Swoop]

Remember Greene endorsed conspiracy theories that 9/11 was an inside job and that Sandy Hook was staged
Greene also endorsed the conspiracy theory that the Parkland shooting was staged

[shemp]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tweets
@RepMTG
I just filed Articles of Impeachment on President @JoeBiden.

What's the over/under on how long she lasts in Congress before both parties agree to expel her?

[chrispy]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Fair enough. I'll lay my cards out plainly then.

It will be difficult for Biden to make me happy. I am deeply suspicious of his intentions and capabilities.

There are things he could do that would make me pleased with him. Take covid for example.

If Biden actually does anything substantial to radically reduce the number of covid deaths in this country, I'll be happy. Ecstatic actually, I'd consider it an unqualified success for him, and probably a good enough thing to secure a positive legacy (assuming no other disasters like starting another war or something huge).

But that's not what I expect to happen. I expect he'll do many small, easy things, like ordering a mask mandate or deferring to "science", but nothing significant enough to really drive down deaths. They'll probably be less deaths, but the US will still be outstanding on the national stage for fatalities.

This seems like a positive start (no pun intended)/

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/21/p...lan/index.html

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Senator Ted Cruz tweets

@SenTedCruz
In embracing #GreenNewDeal enthusiasts and climate alarmists, President Biden is abandoning America’s blue-collar energy workers. His radical energy and environmental plans are putting millions of jobs at stake and weakening America’s energy independence.
https://houstonchronicle.com/busines...edium=referral

Vote for Cruz 2024!

Fixed that for ya, Ted!

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by chrispy

This seems like a positive start (no pun intended)/

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/21/p...lan/index.html

What? That's it? He's had 24 hours and that's all he's done? What a loser!

[turingtest]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tweets
@RepMTG
I just filed Articles of Impeachment on President @JoeBiden.

And (of course) fundraising off of it (Newsweek via MSN):

Quote:

Shortly after her announcement, David Corn of Mother Jones posted a tweet showing Greene fundraising off of her effort to impeach Biden.

"Please - join my effort to impeach Joe Biden and donate at least $45 today," Greene wrote according to the screenshot of her fundraiser. "I am fighting for you in Congress, and I need your help to ensure we can stop the criminal Biden enterprise before it's too late."

In case anyone is wondering what this idiot thinks he should be impeached for, when he's only been President for one day:

Quote:

According to a press release posted to Twitter by Greene, the impeachment articles are for Biden's "corrupt actions involving his quid pro quo in Ukraine and his abuse of power by allowing his son, Hunter Biden, to siphon off cash from America's greatest enemies Russia and China."

"President Joe Biden is unfit to hold the office of the Presidency. His pattern of abuse of power as President [Barack] Obama's Vice President is lengthy and disturbing," Greene wrote in the statement. "President Biden is even on tape admitting to a quid pro quo with the Ukrainian government threatening to withhold $1,000,000,000 in foreign aid if they did not do his bidding. President Biden residing in the White House is a threat to national security and he must be immediately impeached."

That's right- she wants to impeach a President for something (she thinks) he did before he was even President. Now it's possible that an argument could be made that it's perfectly Constitutional to impeach a president for ostensible crimes committed when he wasn't President yet; but I wonder if it's even occurred to her that that just makes it easier to argue that it's perfectly in line with the Constitution to impeach one for crimes committed while he was in office, but isn't President anymore.

And I'm sure that Republicans who kept whining that Trump's first impeachment was just an effort to nullify his election in 2016 will jump to tell her that she really shouldn't be trying to nullify the election of 2020, when, after all, all these allegations against Biden were already known and didn't make enough difference to defeat him then.

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tweets
@RepMTG
I just filed Articles of Impeachment on President @JoeBiden.

The summary on her official house.gov page is all about Hunter Biden but has no specifics. The actual articles of impeachment haven’t shown up yet.

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Originally Posted by Lrrr

I don't know the number, but I suspect the number of Keystone workers is fairly small. The bigger picture is the overall economy of the province, which will definitely take a hit. Probably not as big a hit as the price of oil seen in the last few years but still a hit. The current government refuses to diversify the economy away from fossil fuels, which I believe is a mistake. Relying completely on oil and coal is not viable long term unless Alberta can control prices (hint: it cannot).

I think they'll be ok. The price of gasoline here went up .17 cents overnight. If that's any indication of coming oil prices, Alberta will do fine.