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Old 28th April 2022, 10:34 AM   #521
BowlOfRed
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
He also pops up in Legal Eagles take on the legality of NFTs (TL: DW - Yikes!)
I did watch that one. I was much less familiar with any of the legal aspects and how most of it ties back to contract law. I thought it was pretty interesting.
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Old 5th May 2022, 04:51 AM   #522
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NFT sales volume is plummeting.

Quote:
Sales of non-fungible tokens (NFTs) have fallen 92 per cent since September, according to new data.

Analysis by the website NonFungible, first cited by the Wall Street Journal, found that NFT sales fell to a daily average of 19,000 this week, compared to 225,000 seven months ago.

Active wallets, which are used to store NFTs, also dropped by 88 per cent. The article concluded: “The NFT market is collapsing.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/n...box=1651671640
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Old 5th May 2022, 05:48 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Looks like they all 'gambled and lost'
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Old 5th May 2022, 05:51 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Looks like they all 'gambled and lost'
Not all. Many, but there's certainly a minority that made a killing during this nonsense. The promises of riches that drive these speculative bubbles aren't entirely a lie. There's always some winners at the casino, and a bunch of losers.
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Old 5th May 2022, 06:03 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Not all. Many, but there's certainly a minority that made a killing during this nonsense. The promises of riches that drive these speculative bubbles aren't entirely a lie. There's always some winners at the casino, and a bunch of losers.
A few asswipes getting rich off of gullible losers is the whole purpose of bitcoin and nfts.
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Old 5th May 2022, 09:00 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
A few asswipes getting rich off of gullible losers is the whole purpose of bitcoin and nfts.
No it isn't.
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Old 5th May 2022, 09:02 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
No it isn't.
I dunno, I imagine the asswipes getting rich probably think so.
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Old 5th May 2022, 08:30 PM   #528
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I dunno, I imagine the asswipes getting rich probably think so.
Wishful thinking. The only "asswipes" are the ones in your imagination.
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Old 6th May 2022, 04:42 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Wishful thinking. The only "asswipes" are the ones in your imagination.
I can understand thinking that NFTs have some legitimate usage, but outright denialism of the outright fraud and grifting that is constantly occurring in this space is certainly an absurd position.
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Old 6th May 2022, 06:02 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I can understand thinking that NFTs have some legitimate usage, but outright denialism of the outright fraud and grifting that is constantly occurring in this space is certainly an absurd position.
It is your apparent belief that anybody who makes any sort of profit out of this technology has automatically committed a fraud that I have a problem with.

It's the same principle whether it is cryptos, NFTs, stamps, gold etc. People buy them in the hopes that they will become more valuable as time passes. In the vast majority of cases, they are not looking for rubes that they can convince (lie to) to buy their wares at grossly inflated prices.
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Old 6th May 2022, 06:04 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It is your apparent belief that anybody who makes any sort of profit out of this technology has automatically committed a fraud that I have a problem with.

It's the same principle whether it is cryptos, NFTs, stamps, gold etc. People buy them in the hopes that they will become more valuable as time passes. In the vast majority of cases, they are not looking for rubes that they can convince (lie to) to buy their wares at grossly inflated prices.
Considering the multiple occasions of people being criminally charged with fraud in this space, I'm assuming your "there are no asswipes" comment was a rhetorical flourish.
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Old 6th May 2022, 08:02 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Considering the multiple occasions of people being criminally charged with fraud in this space, I'm assuming your "there are no asswipes" comment was a rhetorical flourish.
There are some "asswipes" in all walks of life. It has no special meaning within the context of cryptos or NFTs.
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Old 6th May 2022, 08:49 AM   #533
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Back on topic.

From 'rug pulls' to counterfeits, here are the biggest scams in the NFT space

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nft...iner-1.6435126

Quote:
But for now, NFTs remain highly speculative and there are signs the market is weakening significantly.

According to data resource website NonFungible, NFT sales volumes have plummeted 50 per cent in the first quarter of 2022. The average price of an NFT has also fallen to around $2,500 US, down from $6,800 in January. As a result of waning demand, many NFT owners are finding their prized works are now commanding significantly smaller price tags.
Not ready for prime time?
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Old 6th May 2022, 09:28 AM   #534
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Maybe it's time for a rebrand, since very soon they can't be exchanged for anything, maybe call em: Not at all fungible tokens?
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Old 6th May 2022, 09:32 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Maybe it's time for a rebrand, since very soon they can't be exchanged for anything, maybe call em: Not at all fungible tokens?
There's not even anything fun to get on the cheap as a keepsake from this idiotic venture.

I still have the 3 Iraqi Dinar I bought for dirt cheap on eBay as a piece of scamming history to keep. I imagine many of these NFT links are going to be dead in a few years after the bottom falls out on the value of these things. I guess you could make a few high-res prints of your apes before it's too late.

At least with beanie babies you still had a stuffed animal at the end.
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Old 6th May 2022, 09:46 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There's not even anything fun to get on the cheap as a keepsake from this idiotic venture.
Maybe, maybe not. But it is experience that is worth having. Most new enterprises fail in quick order and there is no reason why the NFT market should be any different.

Only time will tell if NFTs will still have a future but NFT "ownership" of digital assets in general doesn't seem to be an application for the future. However, there may be some classes of digital assets where an association with an NFT still makes sense.
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Old 12th May 2022, 02:15 AM   #537
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I can't stop laughing.

NSFW

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Old 12th May 2022, 04:50 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
But it is experience that is worth having.
The real NFT was the friends we made along the way.
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Old 12th May 2022, 06:01 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Laff or cry? Otherwise, "Mostly harmless". Unless you buy in, I guess.
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Old 24th May 2022, 09:05 AM   #540
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The ape-holders dilemma: Is a stolen ape still yours?

Quote:
Actor and producer Seth Green was robbed of several NFTs this month after succumbing to a phishing scam that inadvertently threw a monkey wrench into the plan for his new animated series. The forthcoming show was developed from characters in Green’s expansive NFT collection, but in light of the recent hack, the project’s blatant crypto optimism has become a tragically ironic reminder of the industry’s shadier side.

On Saturday, Green teased a trailer for White Horse Tavern at the NFT conference VeeCon. A twee comedy, the show seems to be based on the question, “What if your friendly neighborhood bartender was Bored Ape Yacht Club #8398?” In an interview with entrepreneur and crypto hype man Gary Vaynerchuk, Green said he wanted to imagine a universe where “it doesn't matter what you look like, what only matters is your attitude.”
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...stolen-tv-show

Copyright is quite clear here, these doodles are still Seth Green's property to use as he pleases no matter how many phishing links he might click.

But, the blockchain is quite clear that Green is not the current owner.

Green could be a crypto true believer and honor "code is law" and not move forward with this project that relies on IP the blockchain says does not belong to him.

Or he could assert his copyright (rightly) and use these doodles regardless what the blockchain says, which makes you wonder what point attaching the NFT to this "art" was to begin with.

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 24th May 2022 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 25th May 2022, 02:41 AM   #541
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Copyright is quite clear here, these doodles are still Seth Green's property to use as he pleases no matter how many phishing links he might click.
Well, looking at the Terms and Conditions for the apes, the copyright is not at all clear because the terms are a contradictory mess and it isn't clear that the apes are even copyrightable in the US.

All bets are off if some ape copyright case ends up in the court.
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:17 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by Marras View Post
Well, looking at the Terms and Conditions for the apes, the copyright is not at all clear because the terms are a contradictory mess and it isn't clear that the apes are even copyrightable in the US.

All bets are off if some ape copyright case ends up in the court.
That is an interesting question. Presumably the thief will not assert any copyright claim, because that would require identifying themselves. But presumably by now this stolen NFT has be sold off, perhaps multiple times, to good-faith buyers who may be unhappy to see Green profiting off their IP.
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:52 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That is an interesting question. Presumably the thief will not assert any copyright claim, because that would require identifying themselves. But presumably by now this stolen NFT has be sold off, perhaps multiple times, to good-faith buyers who may be unhappy to see Green profiting off their IP.
It is quite certain that neither the thief nor people buying the NFT from them has copyright. Whether Green has or ever had it is more open question. It might well be that Yuga Labs still has it or that no one has it because the apes are not copyrightable at all.
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:53 AM   #544
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The copyright isn't attached to the ownership of the NFT
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:57 AM   #545
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
The copyright isn't attached to the ownership of the NFT
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It's a bit of a mess because the sellers of the NFTs have made all kinds of bizarre terms of service that tie intellectual property rights to the token.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:06 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by Marras View Post
Well, looking at the Terms and Conditions for the apes, the copyright is not at all clear because the terms are a contradictory mess and it isn't clear that the apes are even copyrightable in the US.

All bets are off if some ape copyright case ends up in the court.
I do see what you mean by the contradictory terms. Part i. states that you own the NFT and says that you own the art completely, but then in parts ii. and iii. states that Yuga Labs grants you an exclusive licence which makes it seem that they still own the IP to the ape picture. If you actually own the ape then you couldn't be granted an exclusive licence to anything because you'd get them automatically as the IP is transferred to you through ownership.

In terms of the show I'd assume that Green provided a licence to the people making the show allowing them to use the ape in question. But then that would also depend on what that agreement says.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That is an interesting question. Presumably the thief will not assert any copyright claim, because that would require identifying themselves. But presumably by now this stolen NFT has be sold off, perhaps multiple times, to good-faith buyers who may be unhappy to see Green profiting off their IP.
Theoretically you could "sell" the NFT from your scam account to another account you own and then try and claim copyright because the Etherium blockchain says you own the ape and the terms of BAYC say that that is how ownership is determined.
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Old 25th May 2022, 10:09 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The ape-holders dilemma: Is a stolen ape still yours?



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...stolen-tv-show

Copyright is quite clear here, these doodles are still Seth Green's property to use as he pleases no matter how many phishing links he might click.

But, the blockchain is quite clear that Green is not the current owner.

Green could be a crypto true believer and honor "code is law" and not move forward with this project that relies on IP the blockchain says does not belong to him.

Or he could assert his copyright (rightly) and use these doodles regardless what the blockchain says, which makes you wonder what point attaching the NFT to this "art" was to begin with.
It's interesting that Seth Green succumbed to a phishing scam. I get it, anyone can be a victim, but that really should make anyone think about why they are pouring so much money into something so fragile.
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Old 25th May 2022, 10:12 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
It's interesting that Seth Green succumbed to a phishing scam. I get it, anyone can be a victim, but that really should make anyone think about why they are pouring so much money into something so fragile.
Not really.

NFTs is like a rube sifter. Only an absolute moron would pour more than petty change into such a dubious project. Anyone holding one of these high costs apes is, ipso facto, exactly the kind of rube that is easy to rip off.* It's like being surprised that everyone at a time-share seminar is prone to getting scammed. You have to have high levels of financial illiteracy to even be in this position.

ETA: at least, this is true for good-faith NFT buyers. I'm sure there's plenty of quite intelligent types on the predatory side of things that understand exactly what the score is.

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Old 25th May 2022, 10:21 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Theoretically you could "sell" the NFT from your scam account to another account you own and then try and claim copyright because the Etherium blockchain says you own the ape and the terms of BAYC say that that is how ownership is determined.
Ownership of a reproducible medium (CD, book, etc.) does not imply copyright ownership. Also, I don't think there's anything BAYC can do to dictate how copyright transfer happens once it's out of their hands.
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Old 25th May 2022, 10:28 AM   #550
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Time to find out if Seth Green sticks to the cyrpto ethos, or goes crying to daddy government to make him whole:

Quote:
The Owner Of Seth Green's Stolen Bored Ape Said They Have No Plans To Return It
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ored-ape-owner

Assuming this is true, the person described bought the stolen NFT in good faith, not knowing it was stolen. If you put any stock into the idea that "code is law" and that the public ledger is to be trusted, than Mr. Cheese owns this thing and Seth Green does not have any claim to it.

Quote:
Green did not respond to requests for comment. But his tweets make it abundantly clear that he’s willing to pursue legal action to reclaim the asset. On Tuesday, Green tweeted that he would “rather meet @DarkWing84 to make a deal, vs in court.” While NFTs have only begun to make an appearance in case law, Eric Goldman, an intellectual property and technology law professor at Santa Clara University, previously told BuzzFeed News that buyers of looted NFTs would likely be criticized for “not doing their homework.”
I wonder how the NFT community will take this if it happens.
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Old 25th May 2022, 10:44 AM   #551
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NFTs are the Beanie Babies of the cyber world.

If you can't see this one coming a mile away you might not be wise enough to have extra money in the first place.
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Old 25th May 2022, 11:30 AM   #552
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I get that the Gorillaz aesthetic isn't to everyone's taste, but personally I think the Bored Apes themselves are great art. Like Warhol's Soup Cans for a digital age. If they were being sold as unique physical artifacts, I'd happily buy sets of them and hang them on my walls at home. I'd even consider them likely to be a good investment.
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Old 25th May 2022, 11:32 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I get that the Gorillaz aesthetic isn't to everyone's taste, but personally I think the Bored Apes themselves are great art. Like Warhol's Soup Cans for a digital age. If they were being sold as unique physical artifacts, I'd happily buy sets of them and hang them on my walls at home. I'd even consider them likely to be a good investment.
You're in luck, the ability to decorate your home is one right click and trip to the print shop away!
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Old 25th May 2022, 11:42 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Time to find out if Seth Green sticks to the cyrpto ethos, or goes crying to daddy government to make him whole:



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ored-ape-owner

Assuming this is true, the person described bought the stolen NFT in good faith, not knowing it was stolen. If you put any stock into the idea that "code is law" and that the public ledger is to be trusted, than Mr. Cheese owns this thing and Seth Green does not have any claim to it.



I wonder how the NFT community will take this if it happens.
If it goes to court, how does Seth Green lose? The existence or control of an NFT is not part of current copyright considerations. I do not think Mr. Cheese can be considered a "bona fide purchaser" (the manner in which an innocent purchaser can sometimes retain title despite adverse claims) when there is no binding provision for the purchase of an NFT to transfer copyright.
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Old 25th May 2022, 11:56 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
If it goes to court, how does Seth Green lose? The existence or control of an NFT is not part of current copyright considerations. I do not think Mr. Cheese can be considered a "bona fide purchaser" (the manner in which an innocent purchaser can sometimes retain title despite adverse claims) when there is no binding provision for the purchase of an NFT to transfer copyright.
I have no idea how binding these terms of service for these NFTs would be.

I think he has a great chance to prevail in court should he choose to sue. I also think there's a good chance the NFT community would turn on him if he did that, because a court declaring that he retains ownership of an NFT the blockchain unambiguously states belongs to someone else would amount to heresy.
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Old 25th May 2022, 12:05 PM   #556
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I have no idea how binding these terms of service for these NFTs would be.

I think he has a great chance to prevail in court should he choose to sue. I also think there's a good chance the NFT community would turn on him if he did that, because a court declaring that he retains ownership of an NFT the blockchain unambiguously states belongs to someone else would amount to heresy.
Even worse, it might also depress prices in the NFT market.
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Old 25th May 2022, 12:41 PM   #557
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Time to find out if Seth Green sticks to the cyrpto ethos, or goes crying to daddy government to make him whole:



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ored-ape-owner

Assuming this is true, the person described bought the stolen NFT in good faith, not knowing it was stolen. If you put any stock into the idea that "code is law" and that the public ledger is to be trusted, than Mr. Cheese owns this thing and Seth Green does not have any claim to it.



I wonder how the NFT community will take this if it happens.
Is everyone in the NFT economy sniffing glue? If Seth Greene owns the requisite rights, he can just mint a new NFT with exactly the same assets. And if he doesn't own those rights, good luck using it commercially for anything other than a resale in the first place. The actual owner of those rights will come knocking the moment there's money to be made, and the judge won't care who owns a digital wafer.
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Old 25th May 2022, 04:13 PM   #558
carlitos
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Time to find out if Seth Green sticks to the cyrpto ethos, or goes crying to daddy government to make him whole:
If it's really valuable enough to use in his terrible TV show, he could just buy the same character on a different background. There are up to 10,000 apes that would work, but I see one in particular that is literally identical.
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Old 25th May 2022, 05:02 PM   #559
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No copyright gets transferred.

Actually, Yuga Labs owns the copyright to all the ape art. They assign license
rights to the holder of the NFT to display and profit off of the ape art. None
of the provisions deal with theft or loss of the NFT. And, in theory, the thief
by merely possessing the NFT can enjoy the same rights to display and profit
off of the NFT.
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Old 25th May 2022, 05:18 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You're in luck, the ability to decorate your home is one right click and trip to the print shop away!
It's not the same, for me. Though it is tempting. I could install a big 2x4 array on my living room wall, take a beautifully composed and beautifully lit hi-res photo, and spam it all over social media to troll the NFT bros.
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