Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin presumed dead after Russia plane crash

Gulliver Foyle said:
It was still under power, an unlikely event in a direct missile hit. And planes are prone to doing weird things under stall events.
Click to expand...

Unless it's a very large missile, most don't completely destroy the aircraft. They do enough damage to cause it to crash, but it mostly comes down in one or two pieces. Most missiles aren't even designed to physically strike the target, but have proximity fuses. Some have warheads surrounded by metal pieces designed to cut through the airframe. If a major control surface was torn off, that would almost certainly cause the aircraft to tumble from the sky.
 
jadebox said:
Anti-aircraft missiles don't have to directly hit a target to destroy or damage it.
Click to expand...

They aren't designed to, most modern AA missiles use a continuous-rod warhead it has an annular blast fragmentation pattern. When it explodes it spreads into a large circle cutting through the target.
 
Last edited:
Andy_Ross said:
They aren't designed to, most modern AA missiles use a ...
Click to expand...

I started to type a longer description but didn't think it was necessary. I worked on the AMRAAM program back when 60 Minutes did an expose on it ... claiming that it had never hit its target. Of course, it wasn't designed to.
 
Last edited:
I'm waiting for a video that starts with, "I'm Yevgeny Prigozhin, If you're watching this video, it means I'm already dead"
 
Tragic:
The Flight Attendant aboard the Embraer Legacy 600 Business Jet which Crashed in the Tver Region, Kristina Raspopova was only on the Flight today so that she could fly back to St. Petersburg for Work and was given a choice to either fly out of Moscow “Today or Tomorrow” she chose the Flight today; Kristina’s Family Members have also stated that she told them there were Unusual Repairs ongoing aboard the Plane before it Departed from Moscow.
Click to expand...
 
According to the fox news story (always count on fox for the stupidest info)

"Rebekah Koffler, a strategic military intelligence analyst and former senior official at the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), told Fox News...

If Prigozhin is alive, the story could be a disinformation operation, intended to get Prigozhin back under cover to run clandestine operations in Africa and other places vital for Putin"

Fox

I seriously doubt this given the lengthy public history of Prigozhin's criticism and the march on Moscow, but it's not completely inocnceivable given the personal relationship Putin had with him, it's always possible they cut a deal that would benefit both parties.
With the far more likely scenario of Putin taking out his rival, I just wonder how it will play out over time, will it make a real coup less or more likely :confused:
 
Last edited:
What did the murderous little tit think was going to happen to him?

I now protest the banning of Michel H. I would absolutely love to find out how he is taking this news.
 
Would it be something like, "See? I told you Putin had a good side to him!"?

Though somehow I expect Michel H probably liked Progozhin about as much as he liked Putin and this is like watching mum and dad fighting, and then one of them murdering the other.
 
angrysoba said:
What did the murderous little tit think was going to happen to him?

I now protest the banning of Michel H. I would absolutely love to find out how he is taking this news.
Click to expand...

A quick peek at his profile shows he was on the site less than two hours ago. Keep an eye out for a new member with a hard-on for authoritarian psychopaths and the ability to project their thoughts into the minds of others.
 
The plane in the video clip is freefalling. Like, tumbling end-over-end, straight downwards. It also appears to be missing a wing?
 
We should keep mind that Prigozhin used to be very close buddy with Putin.

I think the Kremlin Chief is going through some emotions nowe, having betrayed and killed one of the very few people he might have called friend.

When Putin sided with the Russian military against Wagner, he showed who he is really afraid of.
 
There's about three or four clips I've seen so far - here is another one. They're all consistent with one another and show the plane just tumbling down to the ground, not attempting to maneuver or anything like that. If that clip I've linked to is real, the plane seems to have entered an unrecoverable state very soon after whatever happened to it happened.

Assuming that people don't film every single plane that passes by, whatever happened must have been dramatic and/or noisy for people on the ground to notice, let alone decide to take a video.
 
Checkmite said:
There's about three or four clips I've seen so far - here is another one. They're all consistent with one another and show the plane just tumbling down to the ground, not attempting to maneuver or anything like that. If that clip I've linked to is real, the plane seems to have entered an unrecoverable state very soon after whatever happened to it happened.

Assuming that people don't film every single plane that passes by, whatever happened must have been dramatic and/or noisy for people on the ground to notice, let alone decide to take a video.
Click to expand...

Even bomb onboard wouldn't do this. It really seems to be missing wing and leaking fuel. Looks like SAM.
 
I wonder if at some point a Russian general is going to make the following conclusions

"This war is unwinnable, at best we'll end up with years of a WW1 like stalemate"

"Anyone who point this out to Putin dies"

"Anyone who does not win this unwinnable war gets demoted and tends to vanish"

"I am currently in control of an army and there is not much defense between here and Moscow"

"Let's send my family on a holyday abroad"
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
I wonder if at some point a Russian general is going to make the following conclusions

"This war is unwinnable, at best we'll end up with years of a WW1 like stalemate"

"Anyone who point this out to Putin dies"

"Anyone who does not win this unwinnable war gets demoted and tends to vanish"

"I am currently in control of an army and there is not much defense between here and Moscow"

"Let's send my family on a holyday abroad"
Click to expand...

The recent spate of generals dying from sudden fatal diseases makes one thing that there have already been a few …
 
The Great Zaganza said:
We should keep mind that Prigozhin used to be very close buddy with Putin.

I think the Kremlin Chief is going through some emotions nowe, having betrayed and killed one of the very few people he might have called friend.
...
Click to expand...

I don't think Prigozhin was a 1st tier confidante of Putin's. He doesn't go quite as way back as the Siloviki that form Putin's inner circle of power wielders, such as Patrushin, Bortnikov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Shoigu. These are holders of important post, leaders of the actual security and power apparatus, while Prigozhin has always only been the owner of this or that useful service company, a paid boy running errands for Putin.
 
Foster Zygote said:
Whether Putin openly takes credit, or blames it on Ukraine (claiming it was an accident seems unlikely), he knows that it will send a message to others who might consider replacing him.
Click to expand...

Yes,

You have to keep your nerve. And don't accept concessions when you are in a strong position
 
Dr.Sid said:
Even bomb onboard wouldn't do this. It really seems to be missing wing and leaking fuel. Looks like SAM.
Click to expand...

Leaking fuel is an obvious result of missing a wing; and a wing can go missing from a plane entering an uncontrolled mode of tumbling and falling, especially while it is still near cruise speed.

So while I'd put the odds of this crash having been caused by an AA missile of some sort (I saw one photo from the crash side showing a bit of plane skin with tell-tale pockmarks like the ones that implicated a SAM in the MH17 investigation) at >80%, the video footage IMO is not inconsistent with some other cause. For example, say that a large bomb explodes in the tail and results in control surfaces at the tail going to extreme positions, swinging the plane around violently: Perhaps the forces then suddenly pushing on the wings may have ripped one off.

Just saying.

Point is, some structural damage can arise as a result of aerodynamic forces, after plane has been doomed to death by whatever other initiating event. Wing off + fuel leaking is not exclusively diagnostic of a SAM.
 
It's not definitive in any way but Denis Davydov points out in today's Youtube (at around 6:00) that the skin of the aircraft is pockmarked with small holes which is typical of SAM damage.



Whether Russia chooses to portray this as an accidental or deliberate shoot-down will be interesting.
 
Oystein said:
I don't think Prigozhin was a 1st tier confidante of Putin's. He doesn't go quite as way back as the Siloviki that form Putin's inner circle of power wielders, such as Patrushin, Bortnikov, Naryshkin, Sechin, Shoigu. These are holders of important post, leaders of the actual security and power apparatus, while Prigozhin has always only been the owner of this or that useful service company, a paid boy running errands for Putin.
Click to expand...

I got the sense that he was a good buddy precisely because he was not a deep insider - Putin never imagined that Prigozhin would challenge his rule - until he did.
 
Flo said:
The recent spate of generals dying from sudden fatal diseases makes one thing that there have already been a few …
Click to expand...
The Special Military Operation continues to be a great boost for career progression in the officer ranks.
 
If you think Putin carried out this attack, then you hate America. This was clearly a false flag op. plotted in the White House and executed by the Deep State.
 
a_unique_person said:
I can't help thinking Prigozin had just been waiting for this day and accepted this would be his fate. Everyone knows Putin never forgives.
Click to expand...

Yes, he probably thinks this is the reason he survived for so long. However, it might be his final undoing in the end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom